top women´s in open era

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by kiki, Jan 21, 2012.

  1. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    The open era has spreadt from 1968 to 212.If we divide it in 4 slots, we have

    1968-1978
    1979-1989
    1990-2000
    2000-2011

    Considering the 4 slams and the YEC ( Virginia Slims/Avon), my list is:

    ( a player is considered only in one of the 4 segments, even if, like Evert or Graf can figure in 2)

    1968-1978

    1-.Court
    2-.King
    3-.Goolagong
    4-.Wade
    5-.Richey
    6-.Jones
    7-.Reid
    8-.Barker
    9-.Ruzici
    10-.Jausovec

    1979-1989

    1-.Navratilova
    2-.Evert
    3-.Mandlikova
    4-.Austin
    5-.Shriver
    6-.Jaeger
    7-.Hanika
    8-.Sukova
    9-.Jordan
    10-.Kohde

    1990-2000

    1-.Graf
    2-.Seles
    3-.Hingis
    4-.Sanchez
    5-.Davenport
    6-.Novotna
    7-.Sabatini
    8-.Martinez
    9-.Pierce
    10-.Capriati

    2001-2011

    1-.Serena
    2-.Henin
    3-.Venus
    4-.Clijsters
    5-.Sharapova
    6-.Mauresmo
    7-.Kuznetsova
    8-.Stosur
    9-.Myshkina
    10-.Schiavone

    any disagreement ( considering the basis of the ranking)??
     
    #1
  2. Lionheart392

    Lionheart392 Professional

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    I'd need to examine closer but right off the bat I don't think Stosur or Schiavone deserve to be on there over Ana Ivanovic. Sure Ivanovic has played like crap over the last few years but what she achieved in 2007-8 is greater than what Stosur and Schiavone have done IMO. Also I think Capriati should be in the last category, not the middle.
     
    #2
  3. boredone3456

    boredone3456 Legend

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    1968-1978
    1. Court
    2. Evert- could be argued as #1, its actually pretty close both her and Court were very strong.
    3. King
    4. Goolagong
    5. Wade
    6. Navratilova- I could also see her being 5th despite Wade having an extra Major.
    7. Jones
    8. Richey
    9. Casals - its not just about winning majors
    10. Reid

    1979-1989
    1. Navratilova
    2. Evert
    3. Graf
    4. Mandlikova
    5. Austin
    6. Sukova
    7. Vicario
    8. Shriver
    9. Turnbull
    10. Sabatini

    1990-2000
    1. Graf
    2. Seles
    3. Hingis
    4. Vicario
    5. Davenport
    6. Pierce
    7. Sabatini
    8. Novotna
    9. Martinez
    10. Navratilova

    2001-2011
    1. Serena
    2. Henin
    3. Venus
    4. Clijsters
    5. Sharapova
    6. Mauresmo
    7. Capriati- she won 3 majors in this period, if thats the main criteria how can she not be here regardless of how lucky you may consider them.
    8. Kuznetsova- based on achievement I'll give it to her...although I honestly think she was insanely lucky to get the 2 majors she did, especially given her extremely patchy record outside of them.
    9. Dementieva
    10. Ivanovic or Davenport

    I obviously allowed for players to be included more then once...it gives a more complete picture of who was actually the best during this time. To omit Evert from the 70's and then have Ruzici or Jausovec in there gives an extremely distorted picture.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2012
    #3
  4. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    1968-1978:

    1. Court
    2. King
    3. Evert
    4. Goolagong
    5. Wade
    6. Jones
    7. Navratilova
    8. Richey
    9. Casals
    10. Reid

    1979-1989:

    1. Navratilova
    2. Graf: Grafs 87-89 trumps anything Evert did this whole period combined IMO
    3. Evert
    4. Austin
    5. Mandlikova
    6. Sabatini
    7. Shriver
    8. Vicario
    9. Sukova
    10. Jaeger

    1990-2000:

    1. Graf
    2. Seles
    3. Hingis
    4. Davenport
    5. Vicario
    6. Venus- her 2000 year alone puts her atleast this high
    7. Sabatini
    8. Novotna
    9. Martinez
    10. Pierce- one more major than the above 3 but was way less consistent a top player. Even thought of replacing her with Serena.

    2001-2011:

    1. Serena
    2. Henin
    3. Venus
    4. Clijsters
    5. Mauresmo
    6. Sharapova
    7. Capriati
    8. Kuznetsova
    9. Ivanovic
    10. Dementieva or Stosur
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 21, 2012
    #4
  5. boredone3456

    boredone3456 Legend

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    wrong area...oops
     
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  6. pc1

    pc1 Legend

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    I think Evert's most productive years were in the 1970's from around 1974 on. She was virtually unbeatable during that time. Many of Court's best years were in the 1960's and Court was through as a top player by 1973. Evert was great from 1972 to the rest of the decade with 88 tournament victories which is the majority of her tournaments won. Evert won ten majors in that decade and she didn't entered four majors every year she was active.

    Of course Court won the Grand Slam in 1970 which should give her extra credit but for the 1968 to 1979 period I would tend to lean toward Chris Evert. Evert I believe won more tournaments and won ten majors to Court's eight.

    Edit-It's closer than I thought. Court won over 90 tournaments during that period and is ahead of Evert in total tournaments won. And she won the Grand Slam.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2012
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  7. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Yes, I know it can give a biassed picture.

    how come your ate Sukova over Vicario? She enver won a GS title.
     
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  8. boredone3456

    boredone3456 Legend

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    Just because a player won a major title doesn't mean that they are defacto better then a player who has not.

    Vicarios Record from 1979-1989:

    1 Major- French Open 1989 Defeating Steffi Graf in 3 sets

    2 Clay Court Titles, both Tier V's (The lowest of the WTA events I believe) beating Rafaella Reggi and Helen Kelesi in the finals. She had no Runner Up finishes during that time period.

    Of the Majors she played in during that time, 9, she made the QF's at 5 of them, but only past the QF's of the won she would win. Of the other 4 she lost in the first round of 3 (Wimbledon twice, the US Open once).

    Yes she won at major..but outside of the Major she won, she wasn't really a tourwide factor at big events, she didn't win any what so ever.

    Sukova's Record From 1979-1989:

    3 Major Finals- 1984 Australian Open (3 Set loss to Evert, at this Event She beat Navratilova en route to the Final, denying her the True Grand Slam and ending a 74 match win streak of Martina's). She Also made the 1986 US Open Final and the 1989 Australian Open Final, losing in Straight Sets to Navratilova and Graf respectively.

    1 YEC Final- 1985, 3 set loss to Navratilova

    7 singles titles(6 at Virginia Slims Events). The most notable of these is probably Eastbourne in 1987, where she straight setted Navratilova in the final ending a 69 match Grass Court winning streak for Martina. She also straight setted Pam Shriver in Montreal in 1986.

    11 Runner Up Finishes (not including Majors and YEC's), losing 3 times to Martina, twice to Graf, Twice to Shriver, once to Mandlikova, Ruzici and Kohde (assuming I counted everything right)

    I put Sukova above Vicario because personally I feel that she was a lot more competitive against the tour as a whole, across all the surfaces, then Vicario. All of Vicario's success was on clay, and her major success was really French Open Centered. She won it...but Sukova was a lot more competitive and able to challenge the top players a lot more consistently during this time period. She made more major finals, even though she did win won, and won more overall titles. It is not all about just winning a major. Sukova in my opinion was overall better during that time period despite not winning one.

    I mean, I did it other places as well...I put Casals about Reid and Dementieva above Ivanovic...although I guess you'll say I broke you criteria by looking outside the majors and YEC.

    edit- I just realized I made a slew of typos...oh well, I really don't feel like fixing them, guess this is why I never became an English major in college.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2012
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  9. treblings

    treblings Hall of Fame

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    it´s your list, so you can do with it what you want.
    but not including evert in the 70´s or graf in the 80´s
    makes the list worthless, imho
     
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  10. boredone3456

    boredone3456 Legend

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    I knew it was close. I at first put Evert at the top, then for a moment I put them co-ranked at 1/2, then I tipped in Favor of Court very slightly because of the True Grand Slam, and I thought she had pretty much as many tournaments total in her corner during this period as Evert did or close to it. Court was Stellar from 1968-1972 during the periods she played on the tour, and Evert was similarly Stellar from 1974-1979. In my opinion its pretty much a tie between the 2 for this period factoring in Courts Grand Slam in 1970.
     
    #10
  11. pc1

    pc1 Legend

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    Yes you have to give extra credit for the Grand Slam.
     
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  12. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Yes, I could have made a more realaistic list, but I prefer to include mroe players.I believe that, even if a player can play well in 3 decades ( Rosewall or Navratilova) or in 2 decades (Graf,Evert,Laver,Borg,Agassi,Connors,Sampras.Mc Enroe), you can alos consider that every player has a particular era that is the most representative for him (Rosewall and Laver in the 60´s, Connors and Borg in the 70´s, Mc in the 80´s, Pete and Andre in the 90´s...).

    Different looks to way at it.
     
    #12
  13. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    From 1968-1978 Court won a total of 11 slams. Evert won only 8. Court as you said won the Grand Slam and had 3 different years winning atleast 3 slams. It was Evert's choice to not enter more slams and despite entering only 2 per year often the only year she won all slams she entered (only 2) was 1976.

    If it the 70s as a whole, 1970-1979 instead of 1968-1978, it could be Evert, but if it is 68-78 as the OP had it then it would clearly be Court.
     
    #13
  14. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    I think so, too.Evert´s peak was mid 70´s to mid 80´s, Court´s, mid 60 to middle 70.The slam outweightens it.
     
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  15. Steffi-forever

    Steffi-forever Semi-Pro

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    Deleted post
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2012
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  16. halalula1234

    halalula1234 Professional

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    2001-2011
    1. Serena
    2. Henin
    ( I think venus and justine is tied at 2..Venus achieved so much more if we look at doubles...if we look at only singles justine is number 2. venus is 3)

    3. Venus
    4. Clijsters
    5. Sharapova
    6. Mauresmo
    7. Capriati- she won 3 majors in this period, if thats the main criteria how can she not be here regardless of how lucky you may consider them.
    8. Kuznetsova- based on achievement I'll give it to her...although I honestly think she was insanely lucky to get the 2 majors she did, especially given her extremely patchy record outside of them.
    9. Dementieva
    10. Ivanovic or Davenport
     
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