Toughest matchups for Federer, in order

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by Federer20042006, Mar 3, 2013.

  1. Federer20042006

    Federer20042006 Banned

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    1. Nadal. No explanation necessary.

    2. Berdych. Emphasis on this being in the present. I'm sure this will be hotly contested, but I contend that Federer has a better chance of beating Djokovic/Murray at this point than he does Berdych.

    3. Murray. Murray has a level that, if he plays to it, Federer can't match at this point.

    4. Djokovic. Federer/Djokovic matches, even now, basically come down to a coin flip. If Federer comes out on fire, he can beat Djokovic anywhere but possibly at the AO. If Federer is lackluster, Djokovic will take him out.

    5. Del Potro. I give him the edge over Tsonga as he's been tougher, more consistently. His backhand isn't something Federer can attack in the clutch moments, unlike with Tsonga.

    6. Tsonga. Federer generally finds a way to handle him, but the serve and forehand power are still really dangerous to Federer.

    7. Simon. They've only played 3 times, but this is not a guy Federer likes playing.

    8. Benneteau. It's no longer just a fluke thing. He's beaten Federer twice and scared the crap out of him at Wimbledon.
     
    #1
  2. The-Champ

    The-Champ Legend

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    Federer has major advantage (with his incredible talent and his plan a, b, c etc multidimensional game) everytime he faces the one-dimensional and no-talent Nadal.

    So Nadal should be last on the list of opponents to fear for the talented Federer.
     
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  3. timnz

    timnz Hall of Fame

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    All except point 3

    Agree with this list except point 3

    Murray only beat Federer over 5 sets at the AO. Federer at 31 recovery time isn't as good as it used to be. Having played 5 sets the previous round...he was a bit jaded. Haven't seen any evidence about this Murray level you refer to. Olympics was a bit of the same thing....though Federer genuinely was having an off day that day (not to take away anything from Andy's great play that day). Concerning point 1 I think it is a shame that the range of surfaces/conditions they played on wasn't more evenly spread especially during Federer's prime (many more indoor clashes would have evened out the clay). I think we would have a completely different result then. I do agree though that Nadal is a very tough brick for Federer to knock over.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2013
    #3
  4. timnz

    timnz Hall of Fame

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    Not on Clay or Slow Outdoor Hard ie most of the matches they have played.
     
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  5. Murrayfan31

    Murrayfan31 Hall of Fame

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    1. Djokovic
    2. Murray
    3. Nadal
    4. Berdych
     
    #5
  6. TTMR

    TTMR Hall of Fame

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    Alejandro Falla.
     
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  7. cc0509

    cc0509 G.O.A.T.

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    LOL at you saying Djokovic and Murray are tougher match-ups for Federer than Nadal is. Nadal is Federer's toughest match-up by far, the other three are way below Nadal for sure.
     
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  8. jaggy

    jaggy G.O.A.T.

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    No Rosol? Oh yea thats the other guys problem
     
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  9. forzamilan90

    forzamilan90 Legend

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    [​IMG]
     
    #9
  10. Rob31

    Rob31 Guest

    David Ferrer.
     
    #10
  11. Mighty Matteo

    Mighty Matteo Semi-Pro

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    Nadal
    Djokovic
    Murray
    Berdych
    Del Potro
    Tsonga

    My reasoning for djokovic ahead of murray on the list is that as of late, federer has been doing much better against murray than djokovic. The only exception was the australian open when he was probably tired. He was definitely tired at the olympics. not to make excuses since Murray definitely played fantastically both matches, but federer has had more trouble with djokovic as of late.
     
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  12. corners

    corners Legend

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    I've seen the level that the OP is referring to - 1st half of 1st set at WTF last year and in parts of the AO semi. Comes out firing and bossing Fed; makes Federer look like twilight Agassi when he played prime Fed. But I think this is somewhat a surprise tactic and requires a level of agression and risk that Murray is not really comfortable with, thus his failure to keep it up for more than a set. That said, he's clearly more dangerous to Fed now than he ever has been, and he's always given Fed trouble. That he finally beat him in a slam, albeit while in a better-rested condition than Fed, could spell trouble down the road. But if Federer plays his best I don't think Murray has a level that can match that, even today. But he does have a level to stick with him, and over five sets that may be enough.

    I do agree with the placing, though - Murray is a worse matchup than Djokovic for Federer, but Djokovic is the better player, so I'd put my money on Djoker over Fed before I'd put anything on Murray over Fed.
     
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  13. Hawkeye7

    Hawkeye7 Professional

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    True, he's 2-1 against him in their last three matches (including a bagel), while he's 1-2 against Murray. That clearly indicates he's had more trouble against Djokovic lately.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2013
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  14. Murrayfan31

    Murrayfan31 Hall of Fame

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    Djokovic owns Federer in the hardcourt slams. I doubt Nadal could do the same based on WTF.
     
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  15. okdude1992

    okdude1992 Hall of Fame

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    Nice thread. I'm not sure if I agree about number 3. Murray gives Federer trouble because of his defensive skills and fitness, its not like his level is actually better.

    I'd also like to nominate Igor Andreev, (who played Federer like a righty Nadal)
     
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  16. WhiskeyEE

    WhiskeyEE Legend

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    He's 3-4 and had match points on 2 of those losses, including their last HC slam match. Kind've a dumb thing to say.
     
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  17. Murrayfan31

    Murrayfan31 Hall of Fame

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    Nadal never beat Federer at the US Open. That's a fact. And he's lost twice to Federer on grass. WTF is an embarrassment for Nadal. Djokovic beat Federer there to. My points are legit.
     
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  18. WhiskeyEE

    WhiskeyEE Legend

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    Joker is a tougher matchup than Nadal everywhere but clay nowadays, but he doesn't own Roger at HC slams.
     
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  19. Murrayfan31

    Murrayfan31 Hall of Fame

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    No one does. But I like Djokovic's chances on a fast surface better than Murray's or Nadal's.
     
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  20. Beryl

    Beryl Hall of Fame

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    Small sample size. Isn't Djokovic 6-3 against Federer since the start of 2011?
     
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  21. Valdez737

    Valdez737 Rookie

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    Nadal has been beating on Roger back-hand since the 1st time they played back when he was 17 year old kid. Nadal was the only guy able to beat prime Roger. He is the aniti Fed

    Murry should be 2nd he always had a good h2h but just always choked at the slams. For some strange reason Murray game really bothers Roger even more so then Djokovic h2h says it all

    the rest is what ever but get delpo off he always been Roger pigeon that us open was 1 in a million
     
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  22. Beryl

    Beryl Hall of Fame

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    Nadal, Simon and Murray have all more than bothered Federer during his career. There might be a pattern. ;)
     
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  23. Relinquis

    Relinquis Hall of Fame

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    Simon is a talented player... Beast.
     
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  24. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    It depends on what surface. On clay and grass, no contest: Nadal. On hard court, it's not so clear. Djoko and Fed have played 22 times, twice as many times as Nadal and Fed: 11. Fed leads both head to head: 12-10 vs Djoko and 6-5 vs Nadal but Djoko has won 5 of their last 6 encounters on hard (vs 3-3 for Fed/Nadal), Djoko has beaten Fed at WTF (Rafa hasn't) and Djoko beat Fed 4 times in slams on hard (twice in straight sets, Rafa has beaten him twice, never in straights).
    As for Murray, he's the only (top) player who LEADS Fed on hard court: 10-8
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2013
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  25. NEW_BORN

    NEW_BORN Professional

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    Nadal -always has been, always will be
    Murray - can outlast Federer
    Djokovic - can outplay Federer
    Berdych - can outhit Federer
    Simon - can outpush Federer

    Having said that Federer himself is his own worst enemy
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2013
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  26. Tiebreak100

    Tiebreak100 New User

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    What utter drivel. Have a glance at the head to head record and stop making terrible excuses why Murray pumped Federer at the Olympics, and then the Australian Open. How the match in Melbourne went 5 I will never know, it was a routine victory for Murray in every aspect of the game. He smashed him - like he has been doing regularly since he was a teenager.
     
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  27. cork_screw

    cork_screw Hall of Fame

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    Mine is

    1. Nadal

    2. Murray - He has found the formulae to beat fed now on all surfaces. The last two meetings were straight easy beat downs. They weren't even really that close. You never felt federer could come back and federer just felt over powered and was shanking forehands and backhands.

    3. Berdych - Berdych is the poorman's kryptonite. He can beat fed, but really not anyone else in the top 4.

    4. Djokovic

    5. Benneteau

    6. Tsonga
     
    #27
  28. SassyRamirez

    SassyRamirez Banned

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    What are you talking about?

    They are tied at 1-1 in their last two meetings, it was Federer who gave Murray a straight sets beatdown in the first of their last two meetings:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2013
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  29. WhiskeyEE

    WhiskeyEE Legend

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    Fixed 10 char
     
    #29
  30. TheCheese

    TheCheese Professional

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    I would say Nadal is the only player that can consistently take the match out of Roger's hands besides a Berdych/Delpo/Tsonga if they're on fire that day.

    With Murray and Djoko it's really a matter of how Roger is feeling. Those two just run down balls and Fed sometimes starts missing.
     
    #30
  31. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Borg, Mac, Laver,Connors....fortunately for Roger he hadn' t to play them....
     
    #31
  32. Flash O'Groove

    Flash O'Groove Hall of Fame

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    Remember that match-up is not about the absolute level but about how a player Y strength and weakness interact with player X strength and weakness.

    Djokovic is the best player right now, so, even in the case of a bad match-up he can still win. I think Djokovic is more vulnerable to Fed than Nadal or Murray on HC, even if Federer might be a lesser player than them now.

    Murray gave Fed a lot of trouble since day 2007, which prove the match-up issue for Fed. The slams finals are specials. It's the match-up in murray's head who made them so one sided.

    Simon and Benneteau are by far the less talented player on this list, but somehow they give Fed a lot of trouble. I think they should be ranked higher than the big hitters, except Berdych.
     
    #32
  33. Rob31

    Rob31 Guest


    "but somehow they give Fed a lot of trouble"
    When playing well and confident, Simon's retrieving skills + movement + ability to play a more unpredictable game (sudden ability to change the pace of the ball on both wings- Federer insisted on that last point in his press conference after their encounter in AO 2011 for that matter) gave Fed a lot of trouble in the past.
     
    #33
  34. Rob31

    Rob31 Guest

    Yep indeed- underrated talent
    He played like a top 5 player against Del Potro in Marseille this year (it's not a joke).
     
    #34
  35. Wilander Fan

    Wilander Fan Hall of Fame

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    I think alot of the match up issues are really about Federer wearing out in tournaments. He is old and breaks down. He basically is vulnerable to anyone late in a tournament but usually only runs into these particular players late in tournaments. The evidence is his record in the Masters where he meets these guys early.
     
    #35
  36. ivan_the_terrible

    ivan_the_terrible Hall of Fame

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    To be honest, a lot of these guys have become more mentally committed in their matches against Fed (except Rafa who always knew his game troubles Rog). In previous matches, they would basically go away when Fed gets on a roll - this doesn't happen anymore. This was clear to me in the Dubai semi- Berdy won because he refused to blink.

    I do believe that Fed has to realise this - there so only so much 'tweaking' he can do to his game. It's quite possible that the killer instinct is not there anymore, just a natural part of the aging process.
     
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  37. Hawkeye7

    Hawkeye7 Professional

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    They said lately. 2011 was 2 years ago.
     
    #37
  38. spinovic

    spinovic Hall of Fame

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    Djokovic, Nadal and Murray are without a doubt the toughest matchups for Federer.

    Berdych has won two in a row against Federer. I wouldn't say Federer looked particularly sharp in either match and still nearly won the recent one in Dubai.

    After that, I'd group Berdych, Delpo and Tsonga together because all are capable of overpowering Federer if they get hot.

    After that, there's no one worth listing, IMO. Certainly others can and have beat him, but it generally takes a superb effort from them and/or Federer being off his game.
     
    #38
  39. dr325i

    dr325i Legend

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    And you are expressing that opinion based on the matchups done 1 year ago with Nadal playing joke tournaments last few weeks...

    I would love to see them meet now. I believe it would change your opinion, just like 2011 WTF match up did...when Fed was toying with Nadal...
     
    #39
  40. Tropikal_Knights

    Tropikal_Knights Banned

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    Juiced players.
     
    #40
  41. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    1. Nadal

    2. Djokovic- He began beating Federer about half the times they played in mid 2007-2008 when Federer was much closer to his own prime than Djokovic to his. Always a tough opponent as he has the combination of great offense and defense that is hard for Federer to face.

    3. Nalbandian- Even today has close to a .500 record vs Federer career wise. Won their first 5 matches and was still beating and pushing prime Federer in 2006 and 2007 (and late 2003).

    4. Murray- Has done well vs Federer in best of 3 for years but his lack of best of 5 sucess until recently, with Federer now well past his prime and Murray probably entering his peak years, makes it impossible for me to rank him higher.

    5. Agassi- Maybe should rank higher. Given that he pushed Federer so hard in most matches on hard courts in his mid 30s, safe to say prime Agassi would give Federer a very tough time and score some wins.
     
    #41
  42. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    Yes Murray who didnt finally get his first slam win over Federer until Federer was 32 (and it still took 5 sets) is a tougher matchup for him than Nadal who won 6 of their first 7 matches aged 17-19 over peak Federer, and is 8-2 overall vs him in slams. Obviously you are trying to up your stupidity as TMF doesnt have enough competition for dumbest Planet TW poster at the moment. You still have a ways to go but you are getting closer by the day.
     
    #42
  43. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    I agree with your assesment. However hard court is definitely only between Djokovic and Nadal, and I would probably give it to Djokovic slightly although that is a tough one. Murray got slapped down easily by Federer in too many big hard court matches for years to even be compared to the other two as to who is the toughest hard court matchup for Federer, regardless the overall H2H.
     
    #43
  44. ultradr

    ultradr Hall of Fame

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    he is commited to a few changes in his game this year.
    i think it will pay off in the latter part of this year and he will become
    more danger to federer, imho.
     
    #44
  45. kalyan4fedever

    kalyan4fedever Hall of Fame

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    Tough matchups or not , he has evolved so much , i think he could have taken anyone out in his prime years , sample of baby fed vs agassi lol makes me laugh , who woulda thought

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30R-Oyk-A1c
     
    #45

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