Tournament of Champions - 1956 to 1959 - is it a Pro. Slam - yes or no?

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by timnz, Jun 19, 2012.

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Are the 1956 to 1959 Tournament of Champions/1967 Wimbledon Pro Pro. Slams?

  1. Neither should be regarded as Pro. Slams

    1 vote(s)
    16.7%
  2. Wimbledon Pro. 1967 - should be regarded as a Pro. Slam

    4 vote(s)
    66.7%
  3. 1956 to 1959 Tournament of Champions - should be regarded as a Pro. Slam

    5 vote(s)
    83.3%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Dan Lobb

    Dan Lobb Hall of Fame

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    In the Eastern Grasscouts tournament, Giammalva beat Seixas, Nielsen (Wimbledon runner-up that year), and Shea in impressive matches to win the event.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2012
  2. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Big win for Nusslein¡¡¡ Tilden was, what, 40?
     
  3. pc1

    pc1 Legend

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    Nusslein had his share of big wins my friend. For example he won the 1934 US Pro Champs by defeating Ellsworth Vines in the semi by 7-9 6-1 6-3 6-2 and Kozeluh in the final 6-4 6-2 1-6 7-5.
     
  4. Dan Lobb

    Dan Lobb Hall of Fame

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    Actually, I think that the point we have been trying to make, despite some distractions, is that the Forest Hills Tournament of Champions, and the 1967 Wimbledon were not merely the EQUIVALENT of the established pro majors, but were significantly SUPERIOR to them. That, I believe, is the point.
    A marked SUPERIORITY, which the established pro majors, for a number of reasons, could not hope to emulate.
    Then, does it make any sense whatsoever NOT to include these super-tournaments among the pro majors? Obviously, the amswer must be "NO"!
     
  5. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    I doubt bthat Budge would have won a set off Laver when they played in a serious match.
     
  6. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    I never doubted that Giammalva was a good player. I only wrote that it was not great of him to beat Budge and Riggs in 1959.
     
  7. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Wembley and French pro were on the same level with Forest Hills and Wimbledon 1967. They had 16 great players in several years.
     
  8. Dan Lobb

    Dan Lobb Hall of Fame

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    The French Pro was not always held at Roland Garros, when it would be a major. Stade Coubertin was an embarrassment for a major venue.
    Likewise Wembley.
    In the years when Forest Hills and Wimbledon Pro were held, they overshadowed the other tournaments. Not even close.
     
  9. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    Prime Don Budge was one of the greatest shotmakers of all time. He was very close to prime Laver, IMO. It doesn't surprise me that a 47 year old Budge could split sets with a pre-prime Laver in a friendly exo.
     
  10. timnz

    timnz Hall of Fame

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    Taking advantage of being the OP

    Forgive me but I would include the berlin world pro championships in 32/33 if I was retarting the thread today. Big field, best players playing it, universal recognition of it being a major in the press and amongst the players at the time. I would also argue for the bristol cup as well (because its winner was routinally called the world pro champion in the press) but lets leave that aside for now.

    It just seems wrong that Plaa, Nusslein, Gonzales, Hoad & Laver are missing majors from their Resume.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2012
  11. Dan Lobb

    Dan Lobb Hall of Fame

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    Indeed it does.
    We should add for the above, at least
    Gonzales Tournament of Champions Forest Hills (the LA 1956 field was much weaker) in 1957 and 1958
    Hoad Tournament of Champions Forest Hills 1959
    Laver Wimbledon Pro 1967

    There is no reeason to remove these events from the list of major wins, as someone anonymously did.
     
  12. Dan Lobb

    Dan Lobb Hall of Fame

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    Gonzales' Widipedia biography lists the Tournament of Champions and the Wimbledon Pro among the Pro Slams he participated in, winning three of them.
     

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