Tournament trees...

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by peter, Apr 9, 2007.

  1. peter

    peter Professional

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    Messages:
    903
    Location:
    Linköping, Sweden
    I'm trying to figure out what the optimal tournament tree is for 10 players with 2-4 seeded players - should it look like 1 or 2 below (or something else)?

    1. http://www.atvid-tk.org/tavling/km/2007/HS1.html
    2. http://www.atvid-tk.org/tavling/km/2007/HS2.html

    Ie, should the seeded 1/2 players have to play a player that has had to play one match before, (and thus possibly be a harder match than another random choice - harder since the player apparently was good enough to win atleast one match before)

    Anyone seen any good online "recommendations" for how to do this? All I can find is guidelines on the number of seeded players for various tree sizes, but not on this issue...
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2007
    #1
  2. Geezer Guy

    Geezer Guy Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2005
    Messages:
    2,792
    Location:
    Big Canoe, GA
    With 10 players, you're going to have to have a 16 player draw, with 6 players getting first round bye's. If possible, seed the top six (they'll get first round bye's), and just fill in the brackets with the other 4 players.

    If you can't seed 6, seed as many as you can and fill in the rest randomly in the open slots.
     
    #2
  3. penpal

    penpal Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    302
    Speaking of tournament trees, does anyone know why it is that the #1 seed plays the #3 seed in the semifinals, whereas the #2 seed gets to play the #4 seed? This has always seemed strange to me, as it would seem to favor the #2 seed in the semis.

    Or maybe the directors of the tournaments in which I've played just aren't doing it right :p
     
    #3
  4. tarheelbornjohn

    tarheelbornjohn Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2004
    Messages:
    553
    If the top 4 seed advance, it should be 1 and 4 / 2 and 3. The directors did not do it right.
     
    #4
  5. penpal

    penpal Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    302
    That's what I would think, but none of the tournaments around here are seeded that way. I asked a tourny director once and he said that the 1 vs. 3 and 2 vs. 4 was proper in tennis.

    Looks like I need to do some research from various regions and come prepared next time :p
     
    #5
  6. Geezer Guy

    Geezer Guy Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2005
    Messages:
    2,792
    Location:
    Big Canoe, GA
    My understanding is that #1 always goes in the top half, and #2 always goes in the bottom half. Then #3 and #4 are placed in either the top or bottom randomly. And from there out, each two set's of seeds are placed randomly in the places they would fill if it were simply done "straight" from the numbers.

    This prevents players from manipulating their ranking in order to face or avoid a certain opponent. It also mixes things up so the draw can come out differently from tourney to tourney, even if the seeds stay the same.

    That's my understanding anyway - I'm certainly not an expert or a tournament director.
     
    #6
  7. penpal

    penpal Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    302
    I can see the sense in that Geezer.

    I'm surprised we don't have anyone in this forum who has served as a tourny director to help out with this question. Or maybe we do, and they don't find the topic at all interesting :p
     
    #7
  8. cmartin

    cmartin New User

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2004
    Messages:
    84
    Location:
    Cary,NC
    Basically, Geezer is right. Also, the maximum no. of seeds is 1/4 "or greater fraction" of the entries. For 10 entries that we would be 2.5, rounded up to 3 seeds.
     
    #8
  9. BigboyDan

    BigboyDan Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    May 10, 2004
    Messages:
    769
    penpal has it right. For most tournaments that I've run, including at the pro level: 1v3 and 2v4 in the semis.
     
    #9

Share This Page