Turn out the lights, the party's over--FED Again

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by Dedans Penthouse, Jul 5, 2006.

  1. Dedans Penthouse

    Dedans Penthouse Hall of Fame

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    Federer has not even been challenged, let alone threatened. As crazy as I thought this may have sounded 2 weeks ago, I'm actually hoping that Raphel Nadal can make it to the finals. At least that would be a novelty act, that is, it might be able to hold one's interest (albeit for probably only a set and a half).

    The point being: Mario Ancic (very good player) was supposedly a possible challenge, if not a threat to Fed; a top 10 seed and the last guy to be Fed at Wimbledon. Same ol' story: Fed in straights, 4, 4 and 4.

    Baghdatis? You just know that as feisty and competitive as he is, he's not a threat to Fed on grass over 5 sets. Hewitt? Same as Marco, but doesn't have the overall goods to take 3 out of 5 sets from Federer. Jonas? Good S&V player but his mid-30-ish "pins" (legs)? Can't see him hangin' around too much longer. Radek? Again, good player; but not Wimbledon champion material. Same with Jarkko. I'll catch heat for this, but it almost seems like there are a number (not all) of players who seem content to make a "nice/comfortable top 5-10 living" and leave it at that. Yeah, I'm maybe oversimplifying things and yes, it may be born out of frustration that the men's game really doesn't have much going for it at the top, i.e. beyond Fed and Nadal.

    That is, when a special champion came along and "raised the bar" so to speak, it seemed that the game would be all the more better because that challenge would usually be taken up by more than one other player seeking to match the new "high watermark" champion. Navratilova for example, raised the bar with her 'physical-fitness' and the Evert's, Austins et al at least attempted to take up the challenge by addressing their respective fitness levels. Outside of Rafa, I don't really see it. Marat's in limbo; Hewitt's married. David Nalbandian (that cow!) is a prime example of this. Coasting along, top 5 player......a couple of big wins here and there (e.g. vs. Fed in Shanghai) to keep his high ranking.....but not REALLY making the attempt to knock (or at least honestly) challenge Federer. Even some former #1's themselves were guilty of settling into the comfort zone; Moya and Kafelnikov come to mind.

    So, to that end, like him or not, Nadal it seems, is the only top tier player possessing enough gumption to refuse to hand Federer his #1 ranking unchallenged. Again, I never thought I'd be saying this 2 weeks ago, especially about a grass court final, but I do hope (for curiousity's sake) Nadal makes the final; because the "other" men on tour are just doormats for Federer and that would make the Wimby finals a foregone conclusion, i.e. not worth watching other than the fact that it IS the Wimbledon finals.

    If not Nadal, then, the 2006 Wimbledon Finals could read:
    Roger Federer vs. a comfortable, millionaire "satisfied" doormat. JMO.
     
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  2. The Pusher Terminator

    The Pusher Terminator Banned

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    I agree...except that if Nadal makes it to the finals then he will beat Fed. Nadal has the momentum and I think Fed will crack while on the other hand Nadal is mentally as strong as a rock. This is very similar to my post on this topic:

    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=107611&page=2

    anyway you slice it...Wimby is boring without a Nadal-Fed rivalry
     
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  3. arosen

    arosen Hall of Fame

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    Dedans, you gonna get burned, this one is for Match Results. On a lighter note, Ancic did all he could. I thought he had a shot when he broke back in a third. Nadal is definitely the only guy out there that can scare Roger the Hair Product metrosexual. If the courts get worn out, slow down, then Rafa would be in to cause an upset.
     
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  4. Golden Retriever

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    So much for S&V against Federer. It is funny people still say S&V is the antidote for Federer while Nadal, a baseliner, is the only one who has Federer's number.
     
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  5. jaykay

    jaykay Professional

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    Damn... he is good. Gasquet, Henman, Ancic - dismissed EASILY!

    I thought Ancic threw everything at him, but Fed was simply too good. Some of the strokes that he executed were incredible... and as a few gazillion tennis enthusiasts have pointed out time and again - this dude makes it look SO EASY. The fluid grace, the artistry, the ballet on the court... ah - this is why I watch tennis.

    I fervently hope that somebody gives him a run for his money and makes a match of it.
     
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  6. Arafel

    Arafel Professional

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    I said this 2 weeks ago when Blake was interviewed and he basically said you have to go out and hope you have an amazing day and that Fed has an off day to have a chance.

    Compare that to Connors on Borg after Borg stomped him in the 78 Wimbledon finals: "I'll follow that ******* to the ends of the earth!"

    Now that is fighting.
     
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  7. ACE of Hearts

    ACE of Hearts G.O.A.T.

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    I wanna see Roger vs Rafa in the final.I just wanna see how Roger will answer.
     
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  8. skip1969

    skip1969 Legend

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    i think the word i'm looking for is . . . "wow!"
     
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  9. Moose Malloy

    Moose Malloy Legend

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    If Nadal gets to the final the gap between 1 & 2 will narrow, he will gain more points for reaching the final than Fed will for winning it.

    There hasn't been a French Open final rematch in the Wimbledon final since 1952.
     
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  10. Dedans Penthouse

    Dedans Penthouse Hall of Fame

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    Yeah, I guess you're right, but I was trying to address a more "general" issue; the Fed-Mario was just an "incidental" thrown into the mix....but I do get your point. Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. I do, however, do NOT intend to burned. ;-)

    I was just making a "general" point (observation) by saying that it seems that besides Nadal, the others are resigned AND ACCEPT playing 2nd fiddle to Fed; just so long as they're "top 10 and comfortable."

    Almost that the 2006 finalist could be heard during the post-match interview saying: "Even though I lost to Fed.....I'm just so happy to have made it this far."
     
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  11. dh003i

    dh003i Legend

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    Pusher,

    Never missing an opportunity to diss Federer. Why can't you just be realistic. Nadal has "momentum"? Bull. He's barely scraping by in an easy draw.

    Federer's the guy who hasn't lost a set during the entire Wimbledon, and who has only lost serve twice. He will easily streamroll over Nadal if they meet.

    Federer is just too good on grass. He's had an extremely tough draw, and has steamrolled over everyone. Yet, people on this board like yourself somehow seem to think that Nadal struggling to get by really lowly ranked poor grass-court players is somehow more impressive than Federer dominating great grass-courters.
     
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  12. ACE of Hearts

    ACE of Hearts G.O.A.T.

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    Nadal's gaining points, thats what i dont like.
     
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  13. The tennis guy

    The tennis guy Hall of Fame

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    The gap would be 2000 from 2700 points, which is still huge.
     
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  14. The tennis guy

    The tennis guy Hall of Fame

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    I don't agree. When Roddick was No. 2, he tried so many things to beat Federer. He couldn't simply because he was not good enough. It is simple reality that Federer IS much better than the rest of the field when he plays his A game. I haven't never seen someone who can play this high level of tennis consistently for such long period of time except Graf. I just don't agree others didn't (don't) try. We are just not used to see anyone dominating like this on ATP. Quite a few players really chanllenged Federer at Australia Open.
     
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  15. Moose Malloy

    Moose Malloy Legend

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    True, but it now seems likely that Nadal will do well the rest of the year on fast surfaces, if he does what virtually everyone thought was impossible a month ago(reach W finals)

    Unless he's injured, I wouldn't be surprised if he makes a semi at US Open, & makes finals at Toronto & Cincinnati. All which would be huge points gain.
    Who knows what the gap would be come post Australian Open.
     
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  16. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    LMAO! Nadal would beat Federer on grass? Nadal couldn't win a set against Federer on grass. Were you on grass by any chance when you made that post?
     
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  17. The tennis guy

    The tennis guy Hall of Fame

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    I am still not convinced Nadal will make final at Cincinatti and US Open - he is more susceptible of being upset on faster surfaces. Making Wimbledon final this year doesn't erase everything. Look at his schedule, even though he missed the first month, he still scheduled to play 21 events this year, and he will play two clay events after Wimbledon. Federer only plays 12-15 each year.

    His game is quite demanding physically. If he keeps up schedule like this, he'll be out in a couple of years when he can really start to chanllenge Federer on faster surfaces. I still think he needs a couple of years to be able to play consistently on faster surfaces.
     
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  18. Marius_Hancu

    Marius_Hancu G.O.A.T.

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    If Fed stays at the baseline (which is a shame, his game is considerably less spectacular than in 2003; and he could even then win just as quickly), I'm sure Nadal will get him at W too, sooner or later. Same for USO.

    I just hope Stepanek will win his match, to have more S-V with at least one of the S-Finalists.
     
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  19. chess9

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    Brilliant post Moose. I agree totally.

    The interesting question in my mind is how high can Nadal raise his game between now and the final and then again in the final against Federer? The kid is an amazingly talented and quick study. Only Nadal has a chance of beating Federer IF he makes it to the final.

    -Robert
     
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  20. Moose Malloy

    Moose Malloy Legend

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    I know Nadal has yet to make the semis, but he's already done what you said he couldn't do a few months ago-make the 2nd week at W. So we'll see how often your predictions are right.

    I really think you overrate how important court speed is in today's game. Everyone plays from the baseline, so it doesn't really surprise me to see yet another baseliner do well. Verdasco, Ferrer made the 2nd week at W this year. I wouldn't be surprised to see them do the same at US Open. It is fast, but it doesn't really matter. No one volleys or serves big enough to consistently trouble Nadal. Its not like he has to worry about playing Sampras/Krajicek/Rafter like types of the 90s. He's just beating up on a tour of Ferrers basically.
    And he was struggling with that foot injury at last year's open, I'm sure he will do better this year.

    Ok, if he plays those clay events, then I don't like his chances during the hardcourt season or US Open. I think his camp will make him rest at least a month if he makes finals at Wimbledon.
     
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  21. ACE of Hearts

    ACE of Hearts G.O.A.T.

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    Nadal is a quick-learner but why havent people realise that he has had a ****ty draw!:rolleyes:
     
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  22. The tennis guy

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    I never said Nadal wouldn't make the second week. It depends on the draw. I also said he might do better the second week if he gets there because grass wears out more.

    I am not stressing court speed as much as court bounce. I always stressed for Nadal to do well on US Open type of court, he needs to stay closer to baseline. if he can do that, he will do fine. Verdasco and Ferrer don't stay too far behind baseline on fast surfaces like Nadal does. Nadal certainly stayed closer to baseline this year at Wimbledon. Let's see he will continue to do that on fast hardcourt. By the way, he didn't have foot injury at US Open last year. It occured after US Open at Bejing.




    He should. He is No. 2, shouldn't try to chase clay court points at this point. I just can't believe they still make his schedule like this this year after talking about toing down his schdule more this year.
     
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  23. KBalla08

    KBalla08 Semi-Pro

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    when hardcourt season rolls around, i can bet u if blake is on nadals side of the draw, he'll beat nadal everytime...
     
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  24. ATXtennisaddict

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    nadal fans turn a blind eye on ****ty draws
     
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  25. Kobble

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    If Nadal makes the finals Fed's knees will oscilate with fear, and the resulting resonance will crumble his foundation. Game, set, match, Nadal. Just as it always goes. Except for one time, Fed got lucky, once.
     
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  26. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    Right now it's looking more and more like a Federer/Nadal final. It will be interesting to see if Federer comes into that match with a Becker-like "this is my house (living room)" mentality or one of "damn...not this guy again". Nadal right now is riding high on confidence. I don't think he believes he's an underdog. He plays better defense than Federer and might be able to quell the offense that Federer produces, we'll see. I think the court set up favors Nadal more now than at any time in the past.
     
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  27. Simon Cowell

    Simon Cowell Rookie

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    Federer fans are very nervous right now and are praying/fasting/hoping that Nadal doesn't make it to the final, because if he does, Nadal will confirm his already captured title of best player in the world. I look foward to adding a 5th line to my signature.
     
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  28. ACE of Hearts

    ACE of Hearts G.O.A.T.

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    The problem with Nadal will be that Fed's backhand is lethal on grass, he wont get any heavy topspin on grass.I hope it happens and Roger destroys him.He needs it for his confidence.
     
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  29. The Pusher Terminator

    The Pusher Terminator Banned

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    He needs a lot more than that for his confidence.
     
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  30. TXKiteboarder

    TXKiteboarder Rookie

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    not to mention today's nadal match was cancelled so he will have to play tomrrow and possibly next day at semifinal against bagboy.


    I dont know, the way bag played earlier in the game, he has a good chance of making it to the final. he has the ability to turn up for 5setters and can hang in games even if he is not playing great.

    what i like about him is that in interviews, he always talks about strategies. he has plenty of time to relax and wait for a great semifinal.
     
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  31. ACE of Hearts

    ACE of Hearts G.O.A.T.

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    U Rafatards forget that this is not the FO, Nadal has won 4 on clay, this is grass!I hope its Roger and Rafa in the final, so u Rafa fans and Rafa can feel the wrath on grass.
     
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  32. Simon Cowell

    Simon Cowell Rookie

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    Did you forget that Nadal beat Federer on the FAST courts of Dubai this year?
     
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  33. ACE of Hearts

    ACE of Hearts G.O.A.T.

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    Dont give me Dubai, this is grass!!His number 1 surface.Also u forget that Nadal hasnt played anyone good and dont give me old fart Andre Agassi.
     
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  34. The tennis guy

    The tennis guy Hall of Fame

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    Why do you keep saying Dubai was fast court? All outdoor courts in the first half of year are slow to medium. They never played on fast courts.

    If Federer can't beat Nadal on grass in this Wimbldeon, then Nadal is the better player between them.
     
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  35. TXKiteboarder

    TXKiteboarder Rookie

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    IF
     
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  36. Moose Malloy

    Moose Malloy Legend

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    Agassi said Dubai is a fast hardcourt. It is Decoturf II, same surface as US Open.
     
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  37. Simon Cowell

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    Yep, and of course "the tennis guy" knows more than Agassi. :rolleyes:
     
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  38. The tennis guy

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    Not all Decoturf II are the same speed. As I said before, ATP certifies slow, medium, and fast including Decoturf II. The speed and bounce of court is not determined by surface, but by what's underneath, and by what resin they use. Dubai was similar to Indian Wells, the one Navratilova complained about being too slow (high bouncing).

    By the way, I also got information about San Jose indoor hardcourt. They did change the court to slow the last few years. I remember we talked about this. I wasn't sure whether they changed or not at that time.
     
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  39. wilsonboi

    wilsonboi New User

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    federer winning is getting toooooooo repetitive.
    i want to see him lose on grass
    , or at least get close
     
    #39
  40. Moose Malloy

    Moose Malloy Legend

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    what are you basing this on? when agassi played dubai he said the court was fast. he reiterated this when talking to espn on saturday in response to fowler saying nadal couldn't trouble federer on fast surfaces.

    I don't know why Agassi would lie.
     
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  41. urban

    urban Hall of Fame

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    Fed said to the press, that the best volleyer he plays against, is his trainer, when old Tony stands at the net. I agree with Peter Bodo, that the best volleyer on tour at the moment is Amelie Mauresmo. Grass court tennis is on an all time low. Ancic tried, but his low volley and half volley is stiff and unsecure. Also his first serve percentage seemed to be very low.
     
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  42. The tennis guy

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    From someone who worked at ATP. Both Indian Wells and Dubai courts are slow, however, due to desert condition, the balls travels faster in the air. Sampras used to have trouble at Indian Wells because he said the ball just flied on him. Both Miami and Indian Wells have kept similar speed, but the new material make them bounce even higher. Those type of courts trouble Federer as well.

    I watched the Dubai final. It seems to me the court was slow, high bouncing. Fastdunn watched as well, I thought he said something similar.
     
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  43. Moose Malloy

    Moose Malloy Legend

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    Ok, I guess you and Agassi just have different definitions of 'fast.'
     
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  44. ACE of Hearts

    ACE of Hearts G.O.A.T.

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    Give me a break wilsonboi, i wanna see the best win on grass and that is Fed right now.Did u get tired when u saw Sampras win everything?:rolleyes:
     
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  45. Simon Cowell

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    Agassi has actually played at Dubai and has determined them to be FAST courts. The tennis guy, have you had any experience on those courts? For the time being, I'll take Agassi's first hand account over yours, with all due respect.
     
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  46. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    Nadal has already played better than i thought he would at wimbly,but i still dont know if he can get to the final.If he does anything is possible, but i dont think he can beat fed on grass.
     
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  47. Moose Malloy

    Moose Malloy Legend

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    can anyone name the players that were in those finals?
     
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  48. The tennis guy

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    I find what Agassi said in that interview. It seems to me it is not clear what his reference point was of Dubai court speed. Was it relative to the 3 clay matches Federer lost to Nadal or was it relative to US open.

    I also find what Agassi said before his match against Nadal, to figure out if he was reference to Montreal. He said only he lost to Nadal in close match on a very high bouncing hardcourt at Montreal. He didn't say about speed.

    In Dubai match, Nadal stayed far behind baseline, scrambling like he usually does against Federer, which is completely different from what he is playing at Wimbledon in his last two matches.
     
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  49. The tennis guy

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    1952 F.A. Sedgman (AUS) #1 def. J. Drobny (EGY) #2
     
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  50. Simon Cowell

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    Don't shift around and play the context game to fit your agenda. He wasn't talking in any context of other players. He flat out said that the Dubai courts are fast courts. All that's left to do is to retract your previous, incorrect statement. :)
     
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