TW Matching Service Advice Needed

[geoffrey holland]

I am purchasing 2 Blade V8 18x20's. I requested matching service and this is what they returned:

1) 10.79oz, 8.0 HL, 285 SW
2) 10.83oz, 8.5 HL, 284 SW

This seems close enough, but I am not the best at reading this information. Will the .5 difference in HL balance be an issue? I'm fine with adding weight, but it doesn't seem like there is much weight to add. From what I understand, it is important to have the balance be as even as possible.

All advice is appreciated and thank you in advance.

 

[Purestriker]

I am purchasing 2 Blade V8 18x20's. I requested matching service and this is what they returned:

1) 10.79oz, 8.0 HL, 285 SW
2) 10.83oz, 8.5 HL, 284 SW

This seems close enough, but I am not the best at reading this information. Will the .5 difference in HL balance be an issue? I'm fine with adding weight, but it doesn't seem like there is much weight to add. From what I understand, it is important to have the balance be as even as possible.

All advice is appreciated and thank you in advance.

That’s really good. Swing weight is very important.

 

[Fed Kennedy]

Youre good to go

 

[Slicehand]

I wouldnt even pay the service if the frames are not identical, you have to be unlucky to get two frames very far appart from each other, and even high level players play with many racquets that are not matched

 

[Purestriker]

I wouldnt even pay the service if the frames are not identical, you have to be unlucky to get two frames very far appart from each other, and even high level players play with many racquets that are not matched

Have you measured your rackets?

 

[geoffrey holland]

I wouldnt even pay the service if the frames are not identical, you have to be unlucky to get two frames very far appart from each other, and even high level players play with many racquets that are not matched

The reason I grew my knowledge in this area is because my son demoed and really liked a Vcore Pro 100. Yonex has a great reputation for quality. He received it and things just weren't right - he said, "Dad, it doesn't play anything like the demo." Of course, being young-ish, it took a while for him to say that so I couldn't return it. On TW, this model has a published (average) SW of 321. I took it to a local pro shop and they took various measurements, including a Wilson swingweight machine. Strung, the SW was 312. They leaded it up and balanced it as best they could to get it to a 321 SW, but the balance was off for the static weight. Something was off with the racquet, because not long after that he hit a big first serve and it cracked in the throat. I'm not sure if the off specs were related to the crack, but I suspect so. The moral of the story FOR ME is to spend a few bucks on the front end to ensure no headaches or frustration for my children on the back end. Nevertheless, thank you for your opinion.

 

[Slicehand]

Have you measured your rackets?

No, whats the point? I have 4 raquets of the same model and obviously can feel a little difference but nothing huge, maybe 3g or somwthing and slightly more head heaviness in one, but honestly when im in the middle of a match and break strings and pick another racquet, i dont feel enough of a difference to alter myperformance, and i can be picky about equipement let me tell you, now, if one of my racquets was VERY off, i would correct it customizing it with lead or whatever to make it feel like the rest

 

[esgee48]

Very much doubt you could feel any difference swinging the two frames. 0.5 points is 1/16” difference or ~1.5 mm balance wise. Given that the SWs are also close, it means the distribution of mass are also close. You have basically a matched set not “close to matched” set. Go out and celebrate.

 

[Slicehand]

The reason I grew my knowledge in this area is because my son demoed and really liked a Vcore Pro 100. Yonex has a great reputation for quality. He received it and things just weren't right - he said, "Dad, it doesn't play anything like the demo." Of course, being young-ish, it took a while for him to say that so I couldn't return it. On TW, this model has a published (average) SW of 321. I took it to a local pro shop and they took various measurements, including a Wilson swingweight machine. Strung, the SW was 312. They leaded it up and balanced it as best they could to get it to a 321 SW, but the balance was off for the static weight. Something was off with the racquet, because not long after that he hit a big first serve and it cracked in the throat. I'm not sure if the off specs were related to the crack, but I suspect so. The moral of the story FOR ME is to spend a few bucks on the front end to ensure no headaches or frustration for my children on the back end. Nevertheless, thank you for your opinion.

i believe you have a one year warranty that definetly covers a crazy problem like that, i understand the peace of mind part but i just dont like paying extra cash to an already price inflated racquet market to avoid a couple of grams off when i have bought 4 frames of the same model from different countries even and havnt had a problem, that said, if something like that happened to me maybe i would do it too

 

[Purestriker]

No, whats the point? I have 4 raquets of the same model and obviously can feel a little difference but nothing huge, maybe 3g or somwthing and slightly more head heaviness in one, but honestly when im in the middle of a match and break strings and pick another racquet, i dont feel enough of a difference to alter myperformance, and i can be picky about equipement let me tell you, now, if one of my racquets was VERY off, i would correct it customizing it with lead or whatever to make it feel like the rest

Weigh them and then you will understand. Outside of Yonex, most have a 3% threshold for errors. That’s 9 grams on a 310 gram racket. Way worse than you think and well worth the matching service for those results. To get them matched exactly, balance, HL and swing wright would cost WAAAAAY more than the great service TW provides.

 

[Slicehand]

Weigh them and then you will understand. Outside of Yonex, most have a 3% threshold for errors. That’s 9 grams on a 310 gram racket. Way worse than you think and well worth the matching service for those results. To get them matched exactly, balance, HL and swing wright would cost WAAAAAY more than the great service TW provides.

i have weighted them, i just dont have the means to measure swingweight or balance, i do it just by feel, my most distant frames are 4 grams apart and as i said, i compete in many tournaments a year where in very tense moments a raquet switch doesnt trhrow me off, and i have bought my 4 racquets from very different places, if i cant feel disturbed in a high intensity close match, i just dont see the reason to pay an extra, and its not that im insensitive to gear, because if i pick another racquet it changes everything for me, but the same racquet 2 or 3 grams appart and slightly different balance, no it doesnt bother me

 

[Moveforwardalways]

When I have used the TW matching service, they were able to get an exact match. I would not accept a 0.5 balance point difference. I would be able to notice that in my swing.

 

[Purestriker]

When I have used the TW matching service, they were able to get an exact match. I would not accept a 0.5 balance point difference. I would be able to notice that in my swing.

Depends on the brand.

 

[tata]

That's really close. I say take it. 0.5 HL difference is easily fixed. You may not even feel the difference. If you want them both 8.5 pts HL then 1.5g to 2g max of TW tungsten tape under the butt cap will bring it in line.

 

[Mischko]

This current Vcore Pro is known to have weak throats, there are many cases where it broke just like that, especially VCP97 310g (Tiafoe). Reason isn't lack of quality with Yonex but the fact they introduced a different material and construction in the throat to make it softer. And it plays really nice but.. It has nothing to do with a bit of added lead.

Lower sw with Yonex is also a regular thing, and other brands too, but adding lead to a frame is a very normal thing, not an anomaly where the user has to compensate for low production quality. For example, if you find a top 10 player playing with some particular frame, chances are that their 9 frames in the bag are also under spec on swingweight from the factory, and by quite a bit not just a little, and are then matched with lead under the bumper and/or silicone in the handle. Racquets are engineered for that, and tested with a lot of lead at the top because that's what pro players do in 99% of cases. Basically what matters is the carbon fibre layup, stifness/flexing profile, the weight not so much.

18x20 takes away a lot of power compared to 16x19, and Blade v8 is already lower powered. Pros who play 18 mains add tons of lead to their frames, under the bumper, invisible on TV, to compensate for that. Or they are mega athletic like Tsitsipas or Karatsev. How old is your son?

 

[geoffrey holland]

This current Vcore Pro is known to have weak throats, there are many cases where it broke just like that, especially VCP97 310g (Tiafoe). Reason isn't lack of quality with Yonex but the fact they introduced a different material and construction in the throat to make it softer. And it plays really nice but.. It has nothing to do with a bit of added lead.

Lower sw with Yonex is also a regular thing, and other brands too, but adding lead to a frame is a very normal thing, not an anomaly where the user has to compensate for low production quality. For example, if you find a top 10 player playing with some particular frame, chances are that their 9 frames in the bag are also under spec on swingweight from the factory, and by quite a bit not just a little, and are then matched with lead under the bumper and/or silicone in the handle. Racquets are engineered for that, and tested with a lot of lead at the top because that's what pro players do in 99% of cases. Basically what matters is the carbon fibre layup, stifness/flexing profile, the weight not so much.

18x20 takes away a lot of power compared to 16x19, and Blade v8 is already lower powered. Pros who play 18 mains add tons of lead to their frames, under the bumper, invisible on TV, to compensate for that. Or they are mega athletic like Tsitsipas or Karatsev. How old is your son?

I have 6 tennis players in my family, all very athletic IMO. Regarding my son, he JUST turned 16, is 6'2", weighs 150 and moves incredibly well. Don't take that to mean I have any illusions about tennis "success" or his tennis abilities. I want all my kids to have fun, learn the value of building good habits, and develop a good work ethic. In this instance, my goal is to simply not repeat the prior experience and resulting frustration.
Regarding my original inquiry, when I look at the published balance on Wilson (unstrung) and also the balance with TW (strung) this pair seems rather head-light by comparison. I don't have the specifications of the demo's that were tried, but I suspect the balance was NOT as headlight. And if strings add approximately 30 SW points, I also suspect the demo swingweight was higher. So while these 2 racquets are a fairly close match, the specs indicate that customization will need to be done. If that is the case, then the static weight will also go up. Am I seeing this correct?

 

[Curtennis]

The reason I grew my knowledge in this area is because my son demoed and really liked a Vcore Pro 100. Yonex has a great reputation for quality. He received it and things just weren't right - he said, "Dad, it doesn't play anything like the demo." Of course, being young-ish, it took a while for him to say that so I couldn't return it. On TW, this model has a published (average) SW of 321. I took it to a local pro shop and they took various measurements, including a Wilson swingweight machine. Strung, the SW was 312. They leaded it up and balanced it as best they could to get it to a 321 SW, but the balance was off for the static weight. Something was off with the racquet, because not long after that he hit a big first serve and it cracked in the throat. I'm not sure if the off specs were related to the crack, but I suspect so. The moral of the story FOR ME is to spend a few bucks on the front end to ensure no headaches or frustration for my children on the back end. Nevertheless, thank you for your opinion.

I’d bet it was cracked all along and that’s probably what actually didn’t feel right.

Being a few grams under spec does not make a stick more susceptible to cracking.

 

[Mischko]

Yes, my experience says that demos are usually with a higher sw, not only Wilson but all brands, with lighter frames like Blades and other 300/305g racquets.

18x20 Blades were always 335sw racquets, until v8. And not only were they 335sw but they were still low powered so players would add some more weight to the head to get depth. So they were definitely not racquets for 16y olds. With v8 Wilson went down in sw by some 10 points for both 16x19 and 18x20 to everyones surprise.

Head light is better, because you can match frames. If a frame is too heavy in the head, when you match all of them they are then all off compared to desired spec

For a 16yo, and also generally if a player isn't a serious pro or college player, I'd aim for a SW of 325-328 strung. Above that there is a perceptible loss of control, more mistakes and bad timing, but almost no gain in weight of shot unless you go for sw of 340 and more

A 16yo shouldn't go for a sw of 340 to be clear, just so it doesn't go unwritten, that'd seriously mess up the development of technique, he'd cramp up the forehand with his elbow glued to his body, he couldn't normally form a trophy stance on serves, he'd be late on so many shots etc. He needs to develop free floating whippy shots, and for that he needs a racquet and racquet head that's light enough

18x20 has more string than 16x19 so the sw gain is usually more like 35. Some strings are just lighter, depends on material and gauge, like Alu. In a 18x20 he should definitely try 1.20 strings as well, whereas in a 16x19 it's usually 1.25

 

[Curtennis]

I have 6 tennis players in my family, all very athletic IMO. Regarding my son, he JUST turned 16, is 6'2", weighs 150 and moves incredibly well. Don't take that to mean I have any illusions about tennis "success" or his tennis abilities. I want all my kids to have fun, learn the value of building good habits, and develop a good work ethic. In this instance, my goal is to simply not repeat the prior experience and resulting frustration.
Regarding my original inquiry, when I look at the published balance on Wilson (unstrung) and also the balance with TW (strung) this pair seems rather head-light by comparison. I don't have the specifications of the demo's that were tried, but I suspect the balance was NOT as headlight. And if strings add approximately 30 SW points, I also suspect the demo swingweight was higher. So while these 2 racquets are a fairly close match, the specs indicate that customization will need to be done. If that is the case, then the static weight will also go up. Am I seeing this correct?

What string are you using and where did you get 30 pts from?

An 18x20 blade strung with a 16g poly is going to be around 36 swing weight points.

Possibly a little less if you’re using a “soft” string. They’re usually less dense than their standard counterpart.

 

[Mischko]

And to answer your question - yes, your Blades will be at 320sw strung, or slightly below, with 1.25 strings. You'll put 1g at 12 on one frame, and 2g on the other, and see which feels better, and then decide. For reference, 3g of lead at 12 adds 10 sw points

 

[Irvin]

my goal is to simply not repeat the prior experience and resulting frustration.

There are different types of matching services offered at TW. You can use the basic matching service which gives you 2 rackets with the closest specs from the racket pool they have. The way I understand it, if they have 2 rackets 10 g different in weight, 2 points different in balance, and 10 points different in SW that’s what you get, if they only have 2 rackets. If they have many rackets to choose from you get 2 with the closest specs. But again there’s no way to tell if they will be the same as the demo. The demo could have had the highest SW, while your matched rackets the lowest. Then there’s another service where you get rackets matched to specific specs. What service did you order?

Strings and tension can make a big difference in the way a racket plays. Any idea of how much use was put on the demo before your son played with it? Did your son use the same string and tension strung by TW As in the demo? TW uses a LO machine to string rackets. If you had a racket strung on an type machine, with different strings and tension, that could account for a difference in feel.

 

[heavyD]

If you love the way a demo racquet plays don't expect that a new version of that frame will play and feel the same with different strings at different tension. This is a mistake a lot of people make as they put in their string and tension of choice and a lot of the time the frame is simply going to play and feel different.

 

[TennisCJC]

You could add 2 to 2.5 grams of lead tape under the grip, around the handle pallet and just above the butt cap if you want to get the balance closer. Of course, this would make the static weight a bit over 2 grams different. Add the weight as low as possible on the grip to impact balance the most. The specs you provided show .5 point difference in balance which is 1/16 of an inch which is decent. On my rackets I have SW within 1 unit, balance exactly the same (after adding 5G to the handle pallet under the grip) and a 3 gram difference in static weight. I added weight to noon, 3/9 o'clock and the handle pallet to match them with 330/331 SW. The 3 gram difference in static weight is because I had to add 1 gram more to the head and 5 grams to the handle to get racket A matched on SW and balance to racket B. Racket A was originally a bit lighter than racket B. In play, I cannot notice any difference in how they feel or swing now.

The SW will be between 315-320 depending on string you use. You may want to increase this depending on preference.

If the SW is high enough for you, I don't think the .5 point difference in balance will be a big deal. 1/16 of an inch difference in balance is probably going to barely noticeable if at all. You may want to try it before you do any customization.

 

[Vicious49]

The reason I grew my knowledge in this area is because my son demoed and really liked a Vcore Pro 100. Yonex has a great reputation for quality. He received it and things just weren't right - he said, "Dad, it doesn't play anything like the demo." Of course, being young-ish, it took a while for him to say that so I couldn't return it. On TW, this model has a published (average) SW of 321. I took it to a local pro shop and they took various measurements, including a Wilson swingweight machine. Strung, the SW was 312. They leaded it up and balanced it as best they could to get it to a 321 SW, but the balance was off for the static weight. Something was off with the racquet, because not long after that he hit a big first serve and it cracked in the throat. I'm not sure if the off specs were related to the crack, but I suspect so. The moral of the story FOR ME is to spend a few bucks on the front end to ensure no headaches or frustration for my children on the back end. Nevertheless, thank you for your opinion.

Hopefully you got that frame replaced for free since it was under warranty.

 

[Moveforwardalways]

That's really close. I say take it. 0.5 HL difference is easily fixed. You may not even feel the difference. If you want them both 8.5 pts HL then 1.5g to 2g max of TW tungsten tape under the butt cap will bring it in line.

If it is easily fixed, then the racquet matching service should have no trouble fixing it.

 

[geoffrey holland]

Thank you all! This has been most instructive and helpful.

 

[Irvin]

Whatever you do don’t fix it until your son know better what he wants if there’s something he does want. If you don’t know where you’re going any road will get you there and some roads take you into very bad areas.

 

[ey039524]

For his 16th bday, we switched my son from Wilson to yonex bc of quality control. He got 2 VCP 97s and they're w/in 1 g and same balance. He had 4 of the same Wilson PS with all different balance. It was maddening.

I would be pleased w the 2 that you have. Congrats!