TW Review of new Luxilon 4G string --Good as Gold

Discussion in 'Strings' started by Nostradamus, Aug 23, 2012.

  1. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus G.O.A.T.

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    #1
  2. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    It is their flagship string now, so you had better believe it gets reviewed well.
     
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  3. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Also curious is that in their playtest they praise the tension stability, and yet in our playtest on the forum, that was one of the worst aspects.
     
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  4. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus G.O.A.T.

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    really? cause Luxilon and the TW reviewers are saying this is one of the best strings in maintaining tension.
    and still confused about power. One reviewer saids it is very powerful and another one states it is low powered so i am confused on that.
     
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  5. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus G.O.A.T.

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  6. corners

    corners Legend

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    Everyone is confused about "power", with both strings and racquets. If you look at the TW racquet reviews you'll also see wild swings between players' perceptions of racquet power.

    The truth is that there is very little difference in power between different racquet models. A little more difference in strings, but only when comparing completely different materials, like natural gut vs. poly or kevlar. The difference between one copoly string and another, in terms of actual speed of shot, is very small, less than 1 mph.

    All this talk of power originated with the racquet and string manufacturers, who have to have something with which to lure in buyers. But it's mostly BS.

    When people talk about power differences between strings or racquets they are really discussing actual power - ball speed - but also the angle at which the ball comes off the strings (which is the primary determinate of depth), as well as the feel of impact and how quickly the ball leaves the strings (dwell time).

    The problem is that we're not equipped, as humans, to separate the actual from the perceptual. When someone says such and such a string is more powerful than another what they are actually saying is that such and such a string seemed more powerful to them. Another player might have the opposite experience. And neither of them really know for sure.

    This forum is sustained by babbling about string "power", so you can expect some nasty responses to this post. But just pick a string that feels good and allows you to hit the shots you want and try not to get caught up in illusions of powerful equipment.
     
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  7. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus G.O.A.T.

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    ^^^Great point, corners. about 1/2 way down the page, there is a comparison review box. where you can put in another string and compare it to 4 G string.

    Section on Energy return, 4G has higher number if you compare to RPM blast 17g. Does it mean 4G has more power ?

    Does energy return = Power ?
     
    #7
  8. jman32

    jman32 Rookie

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    i tend to agree that there is not that much difference in power, however control is the key to power.

    i play tested the 4G with a heavy, powerful racket: the great control of the string allowed me to swing as hard as i wanted which created a very heavy/high powered ball.

    i have tried other polys that did not have the same level of control, so the ball i could hit was not as strong.

    players with more moderate swings will not reap the benefits.
     
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  9. RD 7

    RD 7 Rookie

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    Have you ever seen the RSI playtest reports? Opinions on power can vary greatly. The experience of power can depend on stroke style. Jason's heavy topspin forehand probably caused the lateral displacement of the mains followed by a powerful snapback. Perhaps this was experienced as more power. Also, lower tensions can cause a higher trajectory, resulting in more depth, which can be confused with power. Things like power and spin are more player-dependent than not. Pete Sampras' leaded Pro Staff 85 was extremely powerful because of the mass. But it requires someone strong and advanced enough to unlock that mass. Therefore a 3.5 might find it dead, whereas an open player with more strength and flexibility might be able to get the mass moving. This player is more likely to say the 85 is powerful. Which is to say: the experience of spin and power and even comfort is heavily relational (to gear, stroke, perception). Now, if TW wanted to, they could frame each response inside the theoretical context found in Tennis Warehouse University; they could exhaustively explain the physics behind each players experience - and then each review would be 40 pages. And then you'd see all the message board scientists come out of the woodwork to challenge every claim. Eventually, you'd come to the conclusion that words like power raise more problems than not - and you'd retreat back to the amniotic comfort of marketing cliches where every string does everything. . . because at the end of the day you just need the customer to buy the damn string so you can go home and have a beer.

    I get calls all the time from parents who want to buy the string that will allow their kid to hit with Nadal's spin. At some point in the answer I try to get them to see that the operative word is Nadal.

    I Agree with corners. Pick something that feels right. At the end of the day, the most accurate statement might be "this feels good to me."

    And if you want more power, take a lesson, do some strength/flexibility work. Maybe lead-up the shoulders ... and swing faster!
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2012
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  10. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus G.O.A.T.

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  11. RD 7

    RD 7 Rookie

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    I don't know the formula's assumptions. You would need to ask the TW Professor. I've always been curious myself.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2012
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  12. jorel

    jorel Hall of Fame

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    maybe jason is a jaugernaut
     
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  13. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus G.O.A.T.

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    what level is Jason, anyway ?
     
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  14. cluckcluck

    cluckcluck Hall of Fame

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    Says he's 4.0, I haven't seen him play.
     
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  15. FloridaAG

    FloridaAG Professional

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    I heard very poor things about this string
     
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  16. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus G.O.A.T.

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    This is one of the best reviews i have seen from TW guys. so i am confused about what you mean by poor ? nice thing about TW reviewers is that they have folks from all levels so they have good variety of people reviewing.
     
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  17. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    His point was mine. They have sent this out to the public twice, and twice it has overwhelmingly been negatively reviewed. 4G is the new Lux flagship string. Do you truthfully expect a retailer to post a review saying that the new top of the line offering from the most popular poly brand in the world is less than spectacular?
     
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  18. smirker

    smirker Hall of Fame

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    He is either (a) incredibly naive,(b), stupid or (c), a genius pulling the wool over our eyes with his inane postings.
     
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  19. Sander001

    Sander001 Hall of Fame

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    I bet it's because Jason strings it tighter than everybody else. Stiff(er) polys usually produce more power the tighter they are strung and 4G seems to be quite the stiff poly.
    Looking at TWU, 4G is indeed quite powerful in addition to that.
     
    #19
  20. ben123

    ben123 Professional

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    is it better than the rpm blast strings???? :confused:
     
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  21. JT_2eighty

    JT_2eighty Hall of Fame

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    Maybe they reformulated it based on the first few subpar playtest results?

    If it's priced like other lux strings... no thanks for me.
     
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  22. ben123

    ben123 Professional

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    even if they brought up the best string in the world - if its from luxilon it gets bad reviews on this forum. reviews say nothing. play it yourself or let it be
     
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  23. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    It's the most expensive next to fluoro. 16.95 vs 16.75 for ALU.

    I have tried it. Twice.
     
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  24. Shangri La

    Shangri La Hall of Fame

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    The playtesters referenced playability duration in number of weeks. It'd be really helpful to know how many hours they play each week.
     
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  25. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus G.O.A.T.

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  26. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Have you ever seen Nadal play? Or are you trolling now?

    Let me put this into perspective for you. Another guy who posts on here plays on my school's club team. Since I string for him, he offered me 3 or 4 sets of 4G for free since he hated it. I turned them down just as fast. Now, I am not saying the string is awful. I'm not saying that at all. It doesn't do anything spectacular that any other string does. Scorpion has more control, Iontec has more feel, many MANY have more power, even more have more spin and everything from WC and Signum Pro has better tension stability. Within Lux, ALU is a far superior string and I am not even a fan of it. I can easily recognize, however, why people like ALU. It feels like nothing else. 4G just feels fairly generic.
     
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  27. FloridaAG

    FloridaAG Professional

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    The funny thing is, I was at a retail shop on Tuesday and one of the guys who works there who is a 5.0 masquerading as a 4.5 that I am friendly with were discussing strings and he marched me to the 4G's and asked if I was considering them and if so, he would recommend against it as he had just used them and would not recommend them for many of the same reasons listed in the playtest thread. So the specific comment I was referring to was that. I have not used them and am generally too cheap to pay for Luxilon strings
     
    #27
  28. Torres

    Torres Banned

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    How do we know that that Instagram account is an official Wilson account? It only seems to have been existence for 5 hours with an unverifiable photograph.

    It really wouldn't surprise me Fedace, if you had created that account, given your history of posting misinformation on these boards. Bit of a coincidence also that that Instagram account was created 5 hours ago, and your post linking to that photo and that newly created Instagram account was also made exactly 5 hours ago as well......

    And not least because the person going under the username 'wilsontennis' can't seem to spell or write properly:

    "Check our online retailers to our purchase now!"

    And why would 'wilsontennis' use a picture of an old tennis bag rather than the official Wilson logo?

    And why would Serena Williams suddenly switch to 4G when she's using gut since forever and a day?
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2012
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  29. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus G.O.A.T.

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    Purge your mind of all sins and evil thought, child.

    https://twitter.com/LuxilonTennis/status/238668321942278146/photo/1/large

    Luxilon tennis does Not lie.

    Serena uses 5% pre-stretch. very interesting. assuming this is for the Gut ?
     
    #29
  30. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    As your hitting partner said, you're not missing anything. It is the BMW 318i of tennis strings.
     
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  31. UCSF2012

    UCSF2012 Hall of Fame

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    This string was designed for gut/poly, so I'm actually disappointed that the reviewers all used full poly. Doesn't tell me anything about the string as I would use it. Specifically, I'd want to know how gut/4G compares to gut/ALU.
     
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  32. Cfidave

    Cfidave Professional

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    I play tested 4G and instructions from TW were to use it either as a full bed or as a hybrid. If it were designed for use as a hybrid only, I am fairly sure TW would have made mention of that.
     
    #32
  33. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    Lot of pros I strung for at cincy were using it:
    Nishikori, dimitrov, etc. Also, both of the Williams sisters are using it.

    Both of the aforementioned told me they loved the comfort, spin and control. I was able to get a few sets, so look forward to testing it out.
     
    #33
  34. FloridaAG

    FloridaAG Professional

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    Didn't know you were there. What's up?
     
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  35. duffman

    duffman Rookie

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    I'm testing this string now in a hybrid with tonic gut in the mains. It felt really good the first time I hit with it, nice pop and very good control with good spin. 2nd time there was a noticeble tension drop. Stringbed felt much softer and more powerful. Spin was still good but control. My usual setup of gut/bhb7 or gut/b5e holds tension much better after 3 weeks than the gut/4g setup. We'll see where this goes from here...
     
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  36. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus G.O.A.T.

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    I had no idea you were one of the greatest stringers in history of tennis ? strung for all those great pros, you must be one of the top 5 stringers in the world. this forum is privilaged to have you.
     
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  37. UCSF2012

    UCSF2012 Hall of Fame

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    Can't you intuit that? If it's any indication, it seems like every pro using it is using it in a gut/poly combo.

    It's virtually unusable in full bed form, but in a gut hybrid it should bring out some sickening spin.
     
    #37
  38. Torres

    Torres Banned

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    ^ So basically, Luxilon have never said that at all, and its just your personal view that it should be used in a hybrid.

    Glad we're clear on that now.
     
    #38
  39. UCSF2012

    UCSF2012 Hall of Fame

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    Do you know what would happen to sales if any string company claimed a particular string is designed for gut/poly? The string would have no chance what-so-ever in the market, because how many people actually use natural gut? Wilson/Luxilon's marketing team isn't stupid enough to narrow the market and sabotage 4G sales. It's up to the player to determine how the string are best suited.

    So far, both Nishikori and S. Williams are using 4G with Wilson natural gut. Given how miserable playtesters found the 4G to play in full bed, I think there's another purpose for 4G, and it's not full bed.

    So yes, it's my personal view that 4G should be used in a hybrid. And Nishikori and S Williams seem to agree with me.
     
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  40. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Fallacious argument. Torres' point is completely valid. The string, unlike L-Tec, is not marketed to be a hybrided string. Just because that seems to work best does NOT mean the average consumer will automatically realize that. Lux cannot market their poly to work with gut unless they package it under the Wilson name in a sort of Champion's Choice v2 sort of set. The fact that it's woeful in full and that it's marketed in full is the only valid point to discuss. The coincidental and anecdotal evidence that it is being used in natural gut hybrids (which, I should add, many rec players do NOT use) is in fact irrelevant. Until Luxilon says that it is meant to be hybrided with natural gut, it will be on the market as all other Lux polys: as a poly, not the poly portion of a hybrid.

    So yes, as Torres said, there is no manufacturer's claim that their product works in a superior manner when used in a hybrid. The fact that their pro players are doing such means nothing to the average string consumer. They will buy it and use it as all other Lux polys are marketed: as a poly, not a cross.
     
    #40
  41. tistrapukcipeht

    tistrapukcipeht Professional

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    So, you think TW over scores reviews to mislead customers and help certain companies? I mean, they review it, say it's great and psychologically make everybody think it's great (even if it isn't), so can increase sales?

    I liked the feel as well, all Luxilon strings have great feel and top quality, control was only good because of lack of power, so i actually think this would be a great string for a Babolat racquet that is stiff and lack of feel, per se aero pro, pure drive type of racquet.

    Tension stability wasn't good, but wasn't the worse, comparing to the Yonex strings , Tecnifibre Black code it was worse.

    Yeah, I think Power player, torres and some others were right, you are fedace, all his posts were just about fooling around with others.:)
    Yes, they like the spin and control because they used full gut, any poly will be better for spin than gut, the poly/gut is supposed to be very good for spin and control, so looks like 4G and gut would be optimal for it, the comfort of 4G is absolutely there.
     
    #41
  42. tistrapukcipeht

    tistrapukcipeht Professional

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    BTW, I agree with PV audio and some others, the TW review is overrating this string, not that the string is that bad, but it isn't close to some of the other Lux overall. But again they're just entitled to their opinion as we are.
     
    #42
  43. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    How you been AG? Long time. Hope all is well. We need to meet up soon.

    LOL. I would hardly put it that way, but thanks! :)

    Hog wash. Sampras was getting over 5000 rpms of spin in an 85 sq inch frame, using a full gut set up strung in the 70's.

    Also, dimitrov,nishikori, and the williams all used the gut in the mains and the 4 g in the crosses.

    Also, the mains is where one gets the performance from the string, not the crosses.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2012
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  44. duffman

    duffman Rookie

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    As a 5.0 recreational player who prefers a gut/poly hybrid, I have to say that while I like the feel and control of the gut/4G hybrid, the tension maintenance is not good enough for me to use in a cross. If I'm going to pay for gut in the mains I surely don't want to waste that playability by using a cross that loses tension as quickly as the 4G.
     
    #44
  45. Sander001

    Sander001 Hall of Fame

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    No, Luxilon would obviously have done their own playtests and if the feedback was poor, they wouldn't have made it their flagship product.
     
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  46. FloridaAG

    FloridaAG Professional

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    :?

    Definitely. All is good, just busy. Very little tennis played outside of Key West these days
     
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  47. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus G.O.A.T.

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    Is there any forum playtesters that thought this string actually had very good power as well as spin ?
     
    #47
  48. asiank90

    asiank90 Rookie

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    Federer doesn't have a twitter account
     
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  49. db10s

    db10s Hall of Fame

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    I checked twitter and he came up as a person I'm following...... It appears to be his official account.
     
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  50. db10s

    db10s Hall of Fame

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    Well, you are thinking wrong.
     
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