two 4.5s play a tiebreak against a current ATP pro...what's the score?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by thejackal, Dec 3, 2012.

  1. thejackal

    thejackal Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2004
    Messages:
    2,885
    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    If the pro didnt have the alleys but each side serves like in a normal tiebreak?
     
    #1
  2. thejackal

    thejackal Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2004
    Messages:
    2,885
    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    Paging fpeliwo....
     
    #2
  3. woodrow1029

    woodrow1029 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    2,653
    My guess is 7-0 (7-1 if the pro double faults once).
     
    #3
  4. fpeliwo

    fpeliwo Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    343
    Haha I like this guy
     
    #4
  5. papertank

    papertank Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2012
    Messages:
    1,706
    90% of the time I'm guessing it'd go 7-0, the 4.5's would not be able to read the pros serve and the pro would be able to destroy the 4.5's off the return. Any points that went beyond the serve/return would still heavily favor the pro.
     
    #5
  6. kishnabe

    kishnabe G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2008
    Messages:
    17,159
    Location:
    Toronto
    7-1.........ATP Pro might overcook one shot.

    thejackal....did you ever play a tiebreak against Peliwo.....maybe that would answer the question?

    I played with a german professional ranked in the 300's this summer, who trounced me 6-1. That one game....was the opening game where he made 3 consecutive dbl faults and a point where nailed his body at the net.

    So you can get lucky against a tennis professional.......though 99 percent of the time it a waste of a time for that player.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2012
    #6
  7. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2008
    Messages:
    19,681
    Location:
    Central Florida
    You better, he might be umpiring a match of yours one day. :)
     
    #7
  8. thejackal

    thejackal Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2004
    Messages:
    2,885
    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    no pressure then.

    [​IMG]

    "I'm coming feur you, Ricky Beubby"
     
    #8
  9. thejackal

    thejackal Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2004
    Messages:
    2,885
    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    exactly why I started their thread. a film crew is going to document for you guys to see in a couple of wks
     
    #9
  10. woodrow1029

    woodrow1029 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    2,653
    :) I may have been a chair umpire for some of your matches in the past.

    Edit: Just saw Mikeler's response. :)
     
    #10
  11. Hood_Man

    Hood_Man Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2009
    Messages:
    8,324
    Location:
    Wales
    Was there a small part of you that thought "Woah, I might do this??" :)
     
    #11
  12. fpeliwo

    fpeliwo Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    343
    Id probably recognize you if I saw you, in that case
     
    #12
  13. psYcon

    psYcon Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2008
    Messages:
    623
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    To be honest it depends on the serves of the 4.5 guys. My lefty first serve can easily hit 110mph and I have timed it as well on radar. If I can land one of those and my other 4.5 partner is at the net waiting to put away the return shot, then I think we can get a decent enough score on the tie-break.
     
    #13
  14. axel89

    axel89 Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2012
    Messages:
    1,161
    nice one mikeler i thought woodrow retired though?
     
    #14
  15. dominikk1985

    dominikk1985 Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2011
    Messages:
    6,414
    the pros win every point because placement doesn't play a role when the difference in skill is too high. even when the ball is directly hit at the 4.5s they still couldn't handle the pro ball because it is too hard and heavy. and on top of that they wouldn't even get into the points as they couldn't handle their serves and returns.

    below 5.0 the better singles players will nearly always win a double because ability to hit and tolerate shots of the opponent trumps tactics.

    only at the higher levels strategy starts to play a bigger role.
     
    #15
  16. dominikk1985

    dominikk1985 Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2011
    Messages:
    6,414
    110 is a very good serve for a 4.5 (even a lot of 5.0s don't reach that) but still you are not going to put away an ATP return against such a serve. 110 is a WTA serve. that is batting practice for ATP players. they will not rip a winner every time (but often:)) but if they are not they will still deliver a low and sharp return that the 4.5 volleyer cannot handle.
     
    #16
  17. axel89

    axel89 Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2012
    Messages:
    1,161
    david ferrer often serves 110 mph on his 1st and fed or any other player rarely maybe 3% of the time hit a winner of it
     
    #17
  18. woodrow1029

    woodrow1029 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    2,653
    I don't work any WTA or ATP tournaments anymore, but I may still make the occasional appearance at a futures or challenger.
     
    #18
  19. Devilito

    Devilito Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2009
    Messages:
    4,263
    This “pros are gods” mantra needs to stop. I’ve played pros and seen plenty of pros play solid amateurs. The only guarantee is who wins, not the score. Plenty of pros lose return games by launching a couple returns long and making a couple sloppy errors. When a good player knows they’re going to win, they often drop sloppy games due to trying new things, using those games to warm-up because they didn’t warm-up prior or just not caring enough to fight over certain points. A solid 5.0 with a good serve holding a game against someone ranked in the top 500 wouldn’t surprise me at all. There are too many x-factors in tennis to always say a pro is going to win 6-0 6-0 or never lose a point etc.
     
    #19
  20. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    7,543
    If a pro can read and make an aggressive return on a 130mph pro serve, what on earth do you possibly think your 110mph serve would do? You realize that it is NOT about speed. It is about reading the serve. It is impossible to return a 120mph serve pretty much anywhere at the sides of the box without knowing it's going there first. Even if you do know that, you still have to make clean contact. You ever watch Federer serve on the deuce court? His wide serve is likely the most feared of all of his serves. Why? It's nearly impossible to read, and has so much spin that even if you read it, it's moving away from you so quickly that he's already prepared to put away the return. That's against other top pros. That serve rarely tops 110mph.
     
    #20
  21. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    7,543
    David Ferrer does not hit a flat first serve. That 110mph ball is the shape of an egg.
     
    #21
  22. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    7,543
    When pros can bagel other pros (see Fed v. Delpo, AO 2009: 3, 0, 0; Fed v. Nadal, ATP Final 2011: 0, 3), it starts to look pretty silly that a 4.5 would stand a chance.
     
    #22
  23. woodrow1029

    woodrow1029 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    2,653
    We're talking about someone playing ATP tour events playing against a couple of 4.5's. 7-0 in a tiebreak.
     
    #23
  24. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2004
    Messages:
    7,122
    It depends on the pro.
    Probably very rare for the pro to win 7-0. Too much random variation in unforced errors, once-in-a-while winners by the 4.5's, etc.
    I think it would also depend on the 4.5's playing history. If they are older guys whose games have gone down over the years, they probably would do much better if they've seen (and hit) that kind of pace when younger than guys who got bumped up from 4.0 based on consistency and chasing down every ball.
     
    #24
  25. jokinla

    jokinla Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2011
    Messages:
    2,705
    This would be a once in a lifetime, anyone, much less a pro dbl faulting 3 times in a row.
     
    #25
  26. The Bawss

    The Bawss Banned

    Joined:
    May 8, 2011
    Messages:
    2,829
    Location:
    Lyon, France.
    #26
  27. Shangri La

    Shangri La Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2007
    Messages:
    3,169
    Location:
    香格里拉
    You can have 50 4.5s playing against the Pro but only one of them can make contact with the ball and he's not going to be able to return any shot from the pro.
     
    #27
  28. tyu1314

    tyu1314 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2011
    Messages:
    476
    Location:
    Stony Brook,NY
    Murray was destroying Fed's second serve in that match, Fed has alots of pressure when he second serve.
    But when a atp pro play a 4.5, he would hit his warmup serve (probably 70% effort) and can give the 4.5 trouble, and he can win the point easily.The pro dont even have to do first serve, his normal second serve can lead to a mistake or a easy ball.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2012
    #28
  29. Sabratha

    Sabratha G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2012
    Messages:
    12,130
    Location:
    Australia
    7-0.



    10 0s.
     
    #29
  30. adil1972

    adil1972 Professional

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2012
    Messages:
    1,435
    7-something
     
    #30
  31. jokinla

    jokinla Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2011
    Messages:
    2,705
    Well this is a once in a career as well, but my point was, a pro playing a nobody, versus Fed playing Murray, against a nobody, there is no pressure, and 3 consecutive doubles would be hard to imagine, even though I'd be shocked to ever see Fed do that again.
     
    #31
  32. The Bawss

    The Bawss Banned

    Joined:
    May 8, 2011
    Messages:
    2,829
    Location:
    Lyon, France.
    I'd be shocked to see Federer throw 2 consecutive double faults ever again let alone 3. That truly was freakish against Murray.
     
    #32
  33. axel89

    axel89 Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2012
    Messages:
    1,161
    Murray was returning really well though
     
    #33
  34. Hawkeye7

    Hawkeye7 Professional

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2012
    Messages:
    1,003
    Location:
    Cologne
    At least twice, actually. He did it last year in Basel against Nieminen as well.
     
    #34
  35. bjk

    bjk Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2007
    Messages:
    1,511
    I don't know where my own 110 mph serve is going, so I don't see how my opponent would be able to read it.
     
    #35
  36. The Bawss

    The Bawss Banned

    Joined:
    May 8, 2011
    Messages:
    2,829
    Location:
    Lyon, France.
    Hehehe at least someone tells it like it is!
     
    #36
  37. dominikk1985

    dominikk1985 Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2011
    Messages:
    6,414
    serena mostly hits harder than 110, does it mean she is a better server than ferrer? A lot of spanish clay courters kick most of their 1st serves to open the court and then make the opponent run. when they go for it they can hit harder. I have seen ferrer hit 120 but this is not primary strength of course.
     
    #37
  38. BrooklynNY

    BrooklynNY Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2010
    Messages:
    1,627
    4.5's are not good tennis players. I am a 4.5.

    In local open tournaments, 5.0 players are getting blown out by 5.5 players.

    I watched the top Georgia Tech singles player play against 300-400 ranked player Nikita Kryonos in the finals of the USTA national mens open at the NTC in december. I've never saw someone put out as much effort into 2 sets and barely win 2 games. The pro was jut on cruise control, but the level was insanely high.

    Mac was referring to 5.0 players as weekend hackers.


    Some people really have no concept of level differentials at the higher levels
     
    #38
  39. jokinla

    jokinla Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2011
    Messages:
    2,705
    You can say that again, the keyboard warriors here think since the numbers are close, the competition must be the same, then again I'm assuming they actually play tennis, and we know what happens when you assume.
     
    #39
  40. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    7,543
    People still think I'm odd when I tell them a 4.0-4.5 male stands no chance against a legit D1 female.
     
    #40
  41. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    7,543
    :lol: Fair enough.
     
    #41
  42. Avles

    Avles Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
    Messages:
    1,505
    Location:
    The Peak of Good Living
    I'm really looking forward to seeing this video. I kind of wish there were more videos out there of big mismatches like this-- would be an interesting change of pace, and maybe an instructive one.

    I'd also like to see the full video of Roddick beating that guy with the frying pan.
     
    #42
  43. TahoeTennis

    TahoeTennis Professional

    Joined:
    May 19, 2009
    Messages:
    915
    Clearly you are not recognizing the "power" of a great, hard serve wide. My friend is a fellow 4.5 and can serve 120+. No doubt a serve like that could ace ANYONE if placed right, no matter if it was a 2.5 or Fed himself.

    Score - 7-3

    I agree, the Pros are not Gods and untouchable.
     
    #43
  44. woodrow1029

    woodrow1029 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    2,653
    ^^ "Some people really have no concept of level differentials at the higher levels" - BrooklynNY.

    A 4.5 is not going to get 3 points in a tiebreak off of a professional tennis player on the ATP World Tour
     
    #44
  45. Timbo's hopeless slice

    Timbo's hopeless slice Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2011
    Messages:
    4,092
    this

    simple
     
    #45
  46. 1 point if he is lucky! There is no way the 4.5s can win 7-0 every time!
     
    #46
  47. Timbo's hopeless slice

    Timbo's hopeless slice Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2011
    Messages:
    4,092
    the pros aren't gods, no, but they are so far above 4.5 it is funny.

    I always think of myself as a hacker, and I'm pretty confident I could bagel a 4.5 in a TB if I really concentrated...
     
    #47
  48. PrinceMoron

    PrinceMoron Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 1, 2009
    Messages:
    3,167
    Pro might die laughing, and lose by default.
     
    #48
  49. RogerRacket111

    RogerRacket111 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2010
    Messages:
    708
    Show's people in this board over-rate 4.5's maybe they look up to 4.5's. A pro 7.0 would win 7-0 maybe even with his off hand.
     
    #49
  50. Hood_Man

    Hood_Man Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2009
    Messages:
    8,324
    Location:
    Wales
    If both 4.5's served to the pro at the same time I could see it being a tight tiebreak.

    Sort of.
     
    #50

Share This Page