two 4.5s play a tiebreak against a current ATP pro...what's the score?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by thejackal, Dec 3, 2012.

  1. Geology_Rocks!

    Geology_Rocks! Semi-Pro

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    According to LeeD, his 3.0 windsurf friends can serve 130mph.

    With this info, can you imagine what 2 4.5 windsurfers could do to a tennis pro?? Total massacre.
     
    #51
  2. Rock Strongo

    Rock Strongo Legend

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    I'd just swing for the fences and hope for the best. If you are going to lose, you might as well just be aggressive and go for it.

    Now, I CAN serve very big, it's just that I don't really know where it's going or can't get the first serve in that often. I hit first serves, I win. I hit second serves, I lose badly. By that logic, a first serve would give me a relative shot of getting a ball to hit after the return and given enough luck (boatloads as I'd just cream it without any care in the world), my rally ball would go in and force an error. And a second serve, while spinny, would just result in the pro killing the return.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2012
    #52
  3. woodrow1029

    woodrow1029 Hall of Fame

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    Where's the "Like" button on TW? Best post of the thread!
     
    #53
  4. Geology_Rocks!

    Geology_Rocks! Semi-Pro

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    ^ Thank you, sir.

    I also agree TW needs a like button BTW.
     
    #54
  5. axel89

    axel89 Banned

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    agreed best post of this thread by Far
     
    #55
  6. jokinla

    jokinla Hall of Fame

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    You're right, that 4.5, 120+ serve, is something Fed has only seen, perfectly placed, about 10,000,000 or more times, but it could trick him.
     
    #56
  7. thejackal

    thejackal Hall of Fame

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    Im setting up the facebook event with details. we re also going to run a contest - whoever guesses the final score will have a small autographed (by filip, not by me) gift sent to them
     
    #57
  8. thejackal

    thejackal Hall of Fame

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    Here's the link to the event. Anyone here is more than welcomed to come down and check it out live if you're in the Montreal area.

    Also post your official score predictions on the comment section if you want to win a Wilson Wimbledon poster autographed by Filip!

    https://www.facebook.com/events/250650671729228/
     
    #58
  9. courtking

    courtking Semi-Pro

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    who is going to serve first in the tie breaker?? If the amateurs serve first.. he will get nervous and push the ball in so the score would be 7-1 .. If the Pro serve first, the amateurs just whack it in some how so the score would be 7-3 ..
     
    #59
  10. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    4.0 for sure, but within the 4.5 ranks, there are cherrypickers and there are guys who stretch to play at that level.
    Lots of former Div1 MEN play at 4.5 levels, 10 years out of school.
    Div1 woman would be a strong 5.5, or about a 4.8 level man.
    Then there is the question of matchups. Some females can crush returns of serves coming in at 130mph. Other's might get intimidated by a big strong net rusher and server.
    It'd be close.
     
    #60
  11. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Let's put it like this. If your friend is a 4.5 and can serve over 120mph, clearly his serve is not supreme enough that he can't beat 5.0s. Seriously, you overestimate you and your friends' abilities based solely on what you know. I personally can and have multiple times put up 110-1teens serves. At our level, that's considered a big serve. At the pro level, that's Federer's slice serve.
     
    #61
  12. woodrow1029

    woodrow1029 Hall of Fame

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    What would be close?
     
    #62
  13. xFullCourtTenniSx

    xFullCourtTenniSx Hall of Fame

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    My first serve most likely breaks 120. Didn't check with a radar, but I've played with 2 people who hit 115 checked with a radar and I easily serve faster. But I know 100% that my serve won't give a pro a problem. Know why? Because a pro's serve is consistently placed more better (far more accurate), and they generate 1000-2000 more RPM on the serve than I do while still getting similar or slightly better serve speeds. If these guys can hit aggressive returns off of that, then they would trash me off my serve.

    A 4.5 will not have a shot to put away. They will have a shot to pray to cleanly get a racket on. Even if the pro doesn't go that way with the return, he is going to beat your ass so hard in a crosscourt rally.

    Doesn't matter. They still deal with tougher serves on a regular basis. :(

    Federer has often hit double faults back to back... Him double faulting twice in a game is not hugely surprising and they will almost always be consecutive points. Triple was a bit much, even for him. Don't believe me? 2001 Federer double faulted twice in a row in his match with Sampras. I wouldn't be surprised to see him do double doubles again... Triple I will be surprised.
     
    #63
  14. loci

    loci Rookie

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    wake up, fellas...smh...
     
    #64
  15. Magnetite

    Magnetite Professional

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    I'll go 7 - 4 for the pro.

    He's probably be playing for fun, and woul throw the 4.5's a few points just to be nice.

    I can picture the pro hitting a couple of in-between the legs shots and throwing in an under handed serve e.t.c ...

    If it's serious, the pro would win 7-0 or 7-1.
     
    #65
  16. woodrow1029

    woodrow1029 Hall of Fame

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    I'm hoping it is taken serious. Because if it is not, then it wouldn't be 7-0, andit would be more along the lines of 7-3 or 7-4 for the fun of it. But then, the question will be irrelevant, and anyone who said 7-3 or 7-4 would be like "Told you so. There's not much difference between 4.5 and a professional tennis player. Pros aren't gods. etc. etc."

    The only way to get a true feeling of the difference in levels is for the pro to treat it serious and play his actual game.
     
    #66
  17. Bergboy123

    Bergboy123 Semi-Pro

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    I think of it like this ... during the summer I run camps for kids. Even the very best of them (they're like 10-14 so obviously not good,) stand no chance of winning a single point off me when I try. I don't have to do anything besides pretty much stick my racket out. They have nothing to hurt me with in any way at all.

    Consider that only it's me vs a professional player that plays 6 hours a day or whatever... same story, just on a different spectrum.
     
    #67
  18. No! I disagree, here is why....Small kids do not have the potential to slap a lucky winner....4.5s can hit one lucky, drop volley off the frame...Paint a line off a lucky shot....Kids just cant hit the ball hard enough to get lucky like that!
     
    #68
  19. Hood_Man

    Hood_Man Legend

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    Just read this :lol:
     
    #69
  20. dominikk1985

    dominikk1985 Legend

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    Well it also depends on how the rest of his game is. I have beaten a player that could serve 125 mph+ (no kidding we measured his serve). however he was not really a good tennis player but a high level junior handball player who was about 6"2 and 200 pounds of solid muscle (for you americans that don't know handball-think a 91 mph HS pitcher:)). he did have solid mechanics because he got good coaching early from age 5-12 but then he basically stopped playing and only played like every 2 weeks or so.

    Of course had he trained regularly he would have beaten me easily with his talent but because he trained so rarely he would only hit like 20% of his first serves.

    how hard you serve alone doesn't tell you a lot about tennis skill. 120 mph is much higher than most 4.5 but when that player only hits a third of those it doesn't help him.
     
    #70
  21. PrinceMoron

    PrinceMoron Hall of Fame

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    How would it ever get to a tie break in the first place?
     
    #71
  22. woodrow1029

    woodrow1029 Hall of Fame

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    It's not that it will "get to a tiebreak". They are just playing a tiebreak.
     
    #72
  23. thejackal

    thejackal Hall of Fame

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    exactly. not sure it'd be much fun to do a full set. just playing a tiebreak leaves more time for watching sunday NFL and going to demolish a local all you can eat sushi place afterwards.
     
    #73
  24. jmnk

    jmnk Professional

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    I'm painfully aware about a vast gap between 4.5 hacks and a professional tennis player.
    That being said, we are talking about a just-turned-pro junior against two folks that still hit on a regular basis. I think they have no chance on pro's serve, even if they get the serve back. But they should get at least 4 servers on their own. It seems to me that they should serve every time as a first serve, and via pure luck get at least one putaway volley.
    So I'm saying 7:1. (But either 7:2 or 7:0 is likely too. I do not have facebook account to vote, and no, I'm not getting one)

    btw - do they play on doubles, and the pro on singles court? Or both sides on singles? both sides on double?
     
    #74
  25. thejackal

    thejackal Hall of Fame

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    Singles boundaries for both sides
     
    #75
  26. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    10 tiebreaks, 8 go zip, one 1, one possibly, but not likely, 2.
    Rios or Safin might give up more points.
    Nadal and DJ possibly NONE total, in 10 tiebreaks.
     
    #76
  27. jmnk

    jmnk Professional

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    if it's singles both sides than I'm taking back 7:2 possibility :)
     
    #77
  28. thejackal

    thejackal Hall of Fame

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    D Day is tomorrow.

    Officially s*****ing bricks. Not sure what my doubles partner is doing, or if he's played tennis at all in the last 3 weeks...
     
    #78
  29. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Before the exhibition, get on the same page. Who serves where, when to stay home, when to poach, what kind of return and where.
    Cover your middle.
    Communication with your partner is your friend. Good luck.
     
    #79
  30. psYcon

    psYcon Semi-Pro

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    there's a big difference between a top 10 atp pro and a top 500 pro. If we're talking about top 10 atp , then the two 4.5s will probably lose 7-0 with the occasional 7-1 but if its a 500th ranked atp pro then I would say 7-2 to 7-3 is doable.
     
    #80
  31. thejackal

    thejackal Hall of Fame

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    Well, we filmed the tiebreak today. The video editing teamos gonna play around w the footage, and then we ll put it on youtube.
     
    #81
  32. axel89

    axel89 Banned

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    coool cool but im wondering how do you know fillip peliwo you keep avoiding the question
     
    #82
  33. thejackal

    thejackal Hall of Fame

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    Mutual friends prrtty much. Tennis in canada is kind of a small world
     
    #83
  34. Razoredge

    Razoredge Banned

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    Tell us the score lol.
     
    #84
  35. thejackal

    thejackal Hall of Fame

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    [​IMG]

    also, someone got tagged in the ass with a 110mph serve. bet you guys cant wait to find out who it was
     
    #85
  36. psYcon

    psYcon Semi-Pro

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    here's a breakdown of how it will go down against a top 10 player like Tsonga.

    First the profiles
    ============
    4.5 Player 1 = Big first serve 100-110mph with a 50% chance, big forehand , average backhand, average volley.
    4.5 Player 2 = Medium first serve 75mph-85mph with 80% chance, medium forehand, average backhand, strong volley.
    Tsonga = Ranked #8 in world.

    Tie break begins
    ============

    1st point:
    Player 2 serves to Tsonga, Player 1 at net. First serve misses, second serve in at 75mph to Tsonga backhand. Tsonga runs around his backhand and hammers one straight back at Player 2 with tons of spin for a winner.
    Score 1-0

    2nd point:
    Tsonga serves to Player 1. Service Winner.
    Score 2-0

    3rd point:
    Tsonga serves to Player 2. Huge serve to Player 2 backhand. Player 2 pops back ball and Tsonga puts it away with ease.
    Score 3-0

    4th point:
    Player 1 serves a first-serve in at 105mph . Tsonga blocks it back and it comes back quick! Player 2 tries to poach it but can't get a good enough volley. Tsonga hits a vicious forehand to Player 1 who is standing scared back at the baseline. Player 1 tries to reach for the shot but only frames it.
    Score 4-0

    5th point:
    Player 1 serves first serve in net, and follows up with a double fault in an attempt to get a decent serve in. Pressure is on now.
    Score 5-0

    6th point:
    At this point both Player 1 and Player 2 are standing at the base line scared of Tsonga's vicious groundstrokes drilling them. Tsonga serves to Player 1, Ace.
    Score 6-0

    7th point:
    Tsonga serves to Player 2, Ace. Tiebreak over!
    Score 7-0
     
    #86
  37. Fuji

    Fuji Legend

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    I guess it depends on how often you play that level of guy as well! I've played tie-breaks against challenger and future level guys and taken points off them in tiebreaks before! :razz:

    -Fuji
     
    #87
  38. SQA333

    SQA333 Professional

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    Anyone with a decent serve and a good-enough 1-2 combination would probably win one against Nadal at the moment, probably with a 7-4 or 7-5 scoreline.
     
    #88
  39. axel89

    axel89 Banned

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    you have to remember this is fpeliwo someone who would have trouble dealing with tony lars an open player making a lot of money (no offense to Tlars)
     
    #89
  40. Gyswandir

    Gyswandir Rookie

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    Bump

    Video or it didn't happen
     
    #90
  41. thejackal

    thejackal Hall of Fame

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    Passed the footage off to the editor. She ll have it ready by this wknd
     
    #91
  42. Relinquis

    Relinquis Hall of Fame

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    so much suspense... i hope it doesn't end up being anticlimactic
     
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  43. Gonzalito17

    Gonzalito17 Hall of Fame

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    7-0 7-0, end of discussion.
     
    #93
  44. Gonzalito17

    Gonzalito17 Hall of Fame

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    Actually know a strong 4.5 who paid a charity donation of several thousand dollars to play a set with McEnroe. Mac only lost two points the entire set. This was about five years ago.
     
    #94
  45. Fuji

    Fuji Legend

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    If I had such funds, that would be an experience of a life time.

    -Fuji
     
    #95
  46. tistrapukcipeht

    tistrapukcipeht Professional

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    -An ATP Pro normally destroys 16-18 y.o Jrs

    -a 16-18 y.o Jr normally destroys 6.0 (I have seen in my club)

    -a 6.0 destroys 5.0 players

    Only now I got to the 4.5 level and somebody still thinks that an ATP Pro would lose a point to a 4.5 ?? [​IMG]
     
    #96
  47. The Bawss

    The Bawss Banned

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    Yeah but Fed owns Davydenko, who in turn owns Nadal who in turn, owns Federer. Things aren't always transitive in the world of tennis.
     
    #97
  48. Bergboy123

    Bergboy123 Semi-Pro

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    Anything yet? I'm quite excited to see this
     
    #98
  49. rkelley

    rkelley Hall of Fame

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    Here in San Diego a 5.0 is a pretty freakin' good player. Yes, a pro would disembowel him, but that doesn't mean he's not a good player. There are not a lot of stroke deficiencies at this level, and the strokes are hard, have spin, and are effective.

    If the Mac quote is accurate, then as usual Mac should just stick with hitting the ball. He's so good at that, even in his 50's. And of course he would completely kill any 5.0 player. But that doesn't make them weekend hackers. A 5.0 can beat almost any person that claims to play tennis. John, hit the ball, don't talk.
     
    #99
  50. bjk

    bjk Hall of Fame

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    It's funny how these quotes get mangled. I was watching a tournament with Mac and somebody announcing, maybe Bill Macatee or somebody, and Mac said, "So I hear you're quite the weekend hacker. What are you, a 5.0?" I then posted his quote on TT, you can go back and find the thread if you've got nothing better to do. Now that can be taken many different ways, but Mac did not say "A 5.0 is a weekend hacker." Of course in some sense, a 5.0 is a hacker. In others, not. But Mac did not say that.
     

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