Two-racket Tennis: The Balanced Workout

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by Professor Tennis, Jan 19, 2013.

  1. Professor Tennis

    Professor Tennis New User

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    Two-Racket Tennis: The two-racket game, unlike its one-racket counterpart, is truly a full-body workout as both sides of the body are utilized in a balanced way to play the game.

    Another valuable aspect of the two-racket game is less stress on the arm, now that you have two arms in play. With two-racket tennis you can play more often without wearing yourself out. Hence, you can burn off more calories per week and shed those excess pounds. It's ideal for those tennis enthusiasts who would like to play more than 3 times per week with less risk of injury.

    Two-racket tennis affords the player a number of practical benefits over that of conventional tennis:

    (1) Hitting with power from both sides.
    (2) Bigger wingspan: more easily reach those difficult shots.
    (3) Avoid backhand injuries.
    (4) Hand-eye coordination for both sides of the body.
    (5) Less back strain.
    (6) Less arm fatigue.
    (7) Greater flexibility.
     
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  2. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

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    I've seen this and it's quite graceful to watch good players do it, kinda' like ballet. I think it would take a good bit of practice to get proficient at it. I saw Jeff Gillette the pro at Clint Eastwood's Tennis Club, Mission Ranch at Carmel doing it once, maybe it was with the Prof here. But you can't play with two rackets in competitive play, it's against the rules.
     
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  3. Professor Tennis

    Professor Tennis New User

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    Playing with two rackets trumps the Two-hand backhand.

    As a physics professor (aka Professor Tennis) I see three inherent flaws to hitting with two hands on the racket:

    (1) Placing a second hand on the racket further reduces the player's range of motion. Simple geometry here: Why would a player stretch for a ball with two hands on the racket when stretching with one hand allows for a greater stretch? Perhaps the weakest shot in tennis is that of the player who tries to return a ball, which is at the limit of his/her ability to reach using a two-hand backhand. In this instance, the player simply gets little on the ball. The single-hand return gets more power on the ball and affords for enhanced slice on the ball.

    (2) Having two hands on the racket for both forehand and backhand returns suggests that the player needs to switch the placement of the hands on the racket handle when going from the forehand to the backhand shot. A perfect example of this is in the hitting of a baseball: The right-handed batter places his right hand above his left hand on the bat handle, whereas the left-handed batter employs his hands in the reverse order (i.e., the left hand above the right hand). This is the proper way to hit a baseball. This placement of the hands on the racket handle would also be the proper way to hit a tennis ball. Consequently, there is a switching of the hands when the correct hitting method is applied. (Of course, tennis players are known to adopt foolish techniques in simply not knowing any better.)

    (3) Whenever a player uses two hands on the racket to return a shot, the player must "cross over" his/her body. The cross over approach to hitting a ball, whether it be in baseball or tennis adds increased strain to the lower back as the player turns to initiate the swing. (A price paid by former Yankee great Don Mattingly and his bad back; keeping him out of the Baseball Hall of Fame.) The older we get the greater the risk of straining our lower back when we do the cross over swing.

    Some "Physics of Tennis for Thought." Enjoy.
     
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  4. Tennis Truth

    Tennis Truth Rookie

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    Interesting observation. I have only seen it on youtube videos. Looked a little goofy and lobsterish to me.

    I think additional benefits would include:

    Developing ambidextrousness (is that a word?);
    Finding a way to make it difficult to get balls out of your pocket or even feed a ball;
    Never improving your backhand;
    Looking a little "out there" on a tennis court;

    I bet Marion Bartolli might be into something like this. She seems to shun convention, and embrace the unorthodox.

    Not trying to criticize. Anyone who wants to use two racquets should do so. Maybe the racquet manufacturers should get on board with this. They could double their sales!
     
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  5. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    The basic problem with this is of course that you have to cultivate ambidexterity to be any good at it. Given that most recreational players play for the exercise benefits of tennis (mental and physical) than anything else, I cannot see the added value of cultivating ambidexterity. There may be some health benefits, but I have never seen it advocated as such. You can always do some regular exercises with equal effort on both arms if you want.
     
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  6. Tennis Truth

    Tennis Truth Rookie

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    Another benefit is that you don't develop that popeye-like, huge forearm like Rod Laver used to have. You maintain a more symmetrical physique.

    Down side is that you don't have a free hand to do the following:
    toss a ball to serve, or feed (tennis ball or sandwich)
    take the racquet back, or change grips
    put a ball in your pocket, or take a ball out of your pocket
    adjust your balls
    wave to your friend who may be on the next court or may be walking by
    pick your shorts out of your butt (applies to Nadal, mainly)
    signal "out" shot by raising one finger
    give someone the finger
    adjust your headband
    towel off
    do common finishing moves after great shots, ie air guitar, rifle shot, makin' popcorn, baseball home run swing, air banjo, Chi Chi Rodriguez sword fight, etc. (would assist with the following finishing moves: Darth maul saber battle, drum solo, lobster man, giant scissors, doubles crutches, snow shoes, biggest earings on the planet, and many, many more
    if you are Italian, talk or communicate in any way

    Also, on the follow through, you might clang the racquets together sometimes (known as "cymbaling" in the two racquet community).

    Also, you might be called for a "hinderance" if you are at the net and the other person has a sitter, and you wave both racquets in the air, trying to guess which way the ball will be hit.

    On the plus side though, on the above sitter example, you can cover your face with one racquet, and "other areas" with the other racquet. No need to bail out.

    Plus if you drop one racquet, you are still in the point, although you might have to hit a backhand :(

    Like anything, there are pluses and minuses. Who can think of others?
     
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  7. Prodigy1234

    Prodigy1234 Rookie

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    This made me laugh so hard:)
     
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  8. Professor Tennis

    Professor Tennis New User

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    I'll tackle some of your points:

    Finding a way to make it difficult to get balls out of your pocket or even feed a ball;

    You can always hold the two rackets in one hand if you need a ball out of your pocket.

    Never improving your backhand;

    With two rackets you have two backhands: a fun way to play sometimes.
     
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  9. corbind

    corbind Professional

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    +1 for Truth's genius post!
     
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  10. PrinceMoron

    PrinceMoron Hall of Fame

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    I bring six rackets on court plus two pairs of shoes, plus water, tubes of balls, there is even a roll of lead tape in the bag somewhere, net winder. That is all the workout I need. Actually don't need to play to keep fit, just getting to the court does the trick.
     
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  11. Brian11785

    Brian11785 Hall of Fame

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    Funniest post on this board.
     
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  12. db10s

    db10s Hall of Fame

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    I think this would be great for making all of the people in Health and Fitness or Tips and Instruction mad.... lol
     
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  13. Tennis Truth

    Tennis Truth Rookie

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    To those who advocate for two-racket tennis:

    Are you trying to encourage this as a competition, or just a form of exercise?

    I'll confess that I don't really get it. To me, you could just use one racket but hit a left handed, and right handed forehand, by switching hands. It seems like holding two racquets is unwieldy, and forces changes in traditional tennis strokes because you can't use the off hand the same way. Sure, switching hands is kind of a hassle, but is nothing compared to the downside of using two racquets, which cause problems in feeding, picking up, and serving the ball.

    But anyway, I do have a certain appreciation when people try new things, so best of luck to you.
     
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  14. beernutz

    beernutz Hall of Fame

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    I know a local guy who uses one racquet and switches hands so he can always hit forehands. He plays decently, probably a good 3.5 level at least, while only playing socially at most once a week with no league or tournament play.
     
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  15. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

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    The time I saw it at Mission Ranch, Carmel, it looked more for exercise and movement. It was very rhythmic and dance like. I would think you'd have to be a pretty good player to begin with and would take some practice to get good at it. It looked like it would feel good, I'll try anything once.
     
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  16. Professor Tennis

    Professor Tennis New User

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    Some of my tennis instructor friends have told me that it would be simpler to teach kids, for example, how to play with two forehands than the traditional forehand/backhand combo. Let me elaborate on what I've found (as Professor Tennis - Physics of Tennis) along these lines:

    (1) Some children find after playing two forehands, that their "opposite" hand is their true power hand. Yes, some kids are influenced by their parents to play a particular hand, when in fact, their opposite hand is dominant.

    (2) Playing a second forehand assists the player in developing a more powerful and accurate two-hand backhand. Quite simply, the two-hand backhand is really a choked-up forehand.

    (3) Learning to play a second forehand develops coordination and power for both sides of the body, which comes in handy for the traditional one-racket game.

    (4) Playing a second forehand can lead to the development of an ambidextrous serve. What right-handed player wouldn't want to serve left-handed in order to bolster their game.

    (5) Playing a second forehand may be just what the doctor ordered in the case of a player sustaining an injury, perhaps even a career threatening injury. Knowing how to play with that second hand may make for a new chance at the brass ring of tennis.
     
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  17. Professor Tennis

    Professor Tennis New User

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    Two-racket tennis as a training method can (and should I believe) be used by all types of tennis players (recreational, amateur and professional) hoping to improve motor skills and muscle power for both sides of the body.

    Let's take the garden-variety pro player as an example: For the player who uses the two-hand backhand, which can be thought of as a choked up forehand, training the opposite forehand will bolster the two-hand backhand both in power and control. It certainly hasn't hurt Nadal; a natural righty who was persuaded to play lefty.

    What about the player with the one-hand backhand? That player would also benefit from opposite forehand training. As one learns how to play an opposite forehand not only is a skill being created in controlling the swing of the racket, but also in the control of the body parts, which go into the completion of the swing. For you one-hand backhanders out there, I invite you to try playing an opposite forehand for a few weeks. Then go back full force to your one-hand backhand. I bet that you will see improvements in both power and control of the backhand from having developed this new skill. You will also find that you have increased stamina and perhaps even a flavor for creating shots that you normally would have been afraid to try. Try the two-racket test. I think your game will profit from having done so. Enjoy…
     
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  18. beernutz

    beernutz Hall of Fame

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    Why don't you just play with one racquet and then switch hands to always hit a forehand?
     
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  19. Professor Tennis

    Professor Tennis New User

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    Yes, I've done this. Playing two rackets has advantages that you will never understand until you give it a try. It's as simple as that. You can serve using the two rackets as well and it's easy to do once you get the hang of it. Then you'll be playing the complete two-racket game that I play.
     
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  20. tennismonkey

    tennismonkey Semi-Pro

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    How do I get balls out of my pockets if I am holding two racquets in my hands?

    This is correct. Playing with two rackets will solve world hunger. You will never completely understand unless you try it. I am like the worst infomercial ever. I am not listening to a thing you are saying. I am batshiz insane.
     
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  21. beernutz

    beernutz Hall of Fame

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    You must be quite impressive in the classroom using the old, trust me I'm a doctor, explanation.

    I will say I did watch your youtube video of you serving: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrZLYTPC-XM. It would have been a lot more impressive if you'd actually gotten more than half of them in. Even 25% might have been an improvement.

    For the record, serves 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 (wow), 6, and 8 look out. Only 7 and 9 look in and 9 was close. 2/9 = 22.2%
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2013
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  22. Buford T Justice

    Buford T Justice Semi-Pro

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    You might be onto something there!

    A good friend of mine plays in the 6.0- division of our league. He has developed bad tendonitis in his hitting arm (from tennis plus his job).

    Guess what....hes going to play left handed in the next season!

    He knows hes going to get demolished (doesnt care), as hes interested in playing lefty (as he doesnt have any other choice anyway) :)
     
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  23. tennismonkey

    tennismonkey Semi-Pro

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  24. Professor Tennis

    Professor Tennis New User

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    Two-racket tennis isn't for everyone no more than quantum physics is for Chumlees. Sorry that I can't help you.
     
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  25. beernutz

    beernutz Hall of Fame

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  26. domosborn

    domosborn Rookie

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  27. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

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    Nice job of character assassination guys, dredging up reviews from nearly a decade ago. Sir Issac Newton, the greatest thinker of his time and perhaps ever, was reviled when he was a professor at Cambridge, his classes unattended by any students, who were busy wenching at the pubs or maybe playing court tennis. Being popular by one's students would probably be the least accurate measure of a professor's worth.
     
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  28. domosborn

    domosborn Rookie

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    Tom, I', afraid I couldn't disagree more, the ability to engage, connect with and inspire students is the most important part of a professors job, this guy has consistently shown he is condescending, rude and superior, and this is just evidence that supports assumptions, as a scientist, i'm sure he can appreciate that
     
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  29. beernutz

    beernutz Hall of Fame

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    If he can't take the heat he shouldn't have started in with the Chumlee analogy. BTW do you have a source for the idea that Newton was reviled as a Trinity College professor? I've read a lot about the man and have never seen a reference to that before. It sounds to me like a rationalization that horrible professors use to get to sleep at night.
     
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  30. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

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    Jeesz guys, I didn't think you'll were taking this "Chumlee" analogy to heart, personally I like Chumlee on that LV Pawn TV show and I think he knows he's playing his part and doesn't take himself so seriously. The prof here doesn't take himself too seriously here either, at least from what I can see and he's intelligent enough not to take the internet message board path to hell by engaging his detractors.

    To go to the lengths to dig up decade old student reviews to assassinate a poster's message and character over what amounts to a tennis novelty is a good indicator somebodies got too much time on their hands--maybe somebodies time would be better spent hitting against a backboard somewhere. Or, maybe there's more then meets the eyes here, just maybe somebody got a less then perfect grade in somebodies chemistry class in 2004?

    The last person's opinion I would use to judge a professor's mettle is from the peanut gallery of the modern classroom. This is college we're talking about and not the third grade, if they still need to be inspired and coddled to learn, maybe they're in the wrong place. By the time you're in college you're hand-holding days should be over and you should have the maturity to understand what you're doing there.

    As for my reference to Sir Issac Newton's classrooms and the lack of interest by his students, the info is out there and you have demonstrated a keen ability to dig up the "dirt" on the Prof here, I trust you will find it someday.

    Cheers from a member of the Chumlee Fan Club.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2013
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  31. beernutz

    beernutz Hall of Fame

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    Check again, you keep saying those student reviews were from a decade ago but the EARLIEST one there is from November 2004 and they run up through May of 2009. Clearly not ten years ago. I'm going to take a wild guess and say that it is possible that getting reviews like those posted are why there aren't any ones from later than 2009. I'll let the reviews speak for themselves since they are pretty much universally negative.

    It took all of 10 seconds to 'dig up' this information Tom. You really need to get out more.

    As you've clearly demonstrated, you like to make claims but lack the ability to back them up and are consequently not worth my time.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2013
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  32. domosborn

    domosborn Rookie

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    Right, in that case professors are surplus to requirement, all the informations in books, articles, and nowadays online. For a professor to be "good" then they need to be able to clarify concepts, in a way that is accessible. Your view of "me tutor- you student- me always right" is hugely archaic and does not lead to enthusiastic learners, instead leading to disillusioned students who drop out, or do not study further. Thank god professors like that are now are in the decline. there is a difference between mollycoddling and making a subject easier to learn.
     
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  33. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

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    Demo and Beernutz,

    IT'S ONLY TENNIS ! I'm not going to get into an internet ******* match over "two handed tennis". It just amazes me that you two feel you have to attack someone who comes here to share some tennis knowledge, doing the usual internet crap of demonizing and vilifying even going to the extent of dredging up ancient student reviews. You'se guys are either professors or students with too much time on your hands or typing on the taxpayers dime.

    From what I see of the current "higher" education system, 80% of it is a bunch of babysitting spoiled brats, hooligans and training for a future life of alcohol and drug addiction. They'd be best served by being drafted into the military for their own good and that of the world.

    Beernutz, I am out much, while you've been sitting there at your computer, I've been smacking tennis balls and just came in to see how you all were coming along and make a quick bowl of oatmeal--now back to the courts--those ten seconds of research do add up.

    Cheers Mates
     
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  34. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

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    Demo and Beernutz,

    IT'S ONLY TENNIS ! I'm not going to get into an internet ******* match over "two handed tennis". It just amazes me that you two feel you have to attack someone who comes here to share some tennis knowledge, doing the usual internet crap of demonizing and vilifying even going to the extent of dredging up ancient student reviews. You'se guys are either professors or students with too much time on your hands or typing on the taxpayers dime.

    From what I see of the current "higher" education system, 80% of it is a bunch of babysitting spoiled brats, hooligans and training for a future life of alcohol and drug addiction. They'd be best served by being drafted into the military for their own good and that of the world. For proof just look at who's shooting up all the movie theaters and classrooms these days, a bunch of psychopaths who were accepted by colleges.

    Beernutz, I am out much, while you've been sitting there at your computer, I've been smacking tennis balls and just came in to see how you all were coming along and make a quick bowl of oatmeal--now back to the courts--those ten seconds of research do add up.

    Cheers Mates
     
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  35. beernutz

    beernutz Hall of Fame

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    Me thinks you doth protest too much mate. Hit a nerve? FWIW, I played league singles last night, the fourth night in a row I've played. You seem to be doing just as much internet squawking as anyone in this discussion so for you to going pointing fingers in that regard is pretty hypocritical don't you think? Pot, kettle, you.
     
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  36. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

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    I'm not going to waste anymore of my time on this, there's nothing new ro be said so I'll just keep repeating my point:

    IT'S ONLY TENNIS ! I'm not going to get into an internet ******* match over "two handed tennis". It just amazes me that you two feel you have to attack someone who comes here to share some tennis knowledge, doing the usual internet crap of demonizing and vilifying even going to the extent of dredging up ancient student reviews. You'se guys are either professors or students with too much time on your hands or typing on the taxpayers dime.
     
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  37. domosborn

    domosborn Rookie

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    I think (hope) that if tennis tom had seen the previous deleted threads that the professor had and how rude he was to several posters then maybe he would feel differently. His remarks about students are also downright offensive. Respect works both ways. I am a student yes. From the states? No. I'll leave you to your prententious little judge fest while ill go smoke weed and drink myself into oblivion.... or maybe ill go and hand in the 6th assignment in a fortnight on top of 35 hours of lectures.
    Your attitude stinks.
     
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  38. beernutz

    beernutz Hall of Fame

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    Famous LAST words? Probably not. Please learn to read and to interpret what you're reading before you start passing judgement mate. You can practice by going back and rereading this thread, noting who said what and in what order, to see if you can determine who started attacking whom. You likely also did not see the first thread started by the Professor alluded to by domosborn where he was an *** to anyone who questioned the wisdom of using two racquets at once. I am going to predict you either can't or won't do this though, and given your propensity to resort to ad hominem attacks I'll just steel myself for another one of those.

    Have a brilliant day.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2013
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  39. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly G.O.A.T.

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    I've been doing this for quite a while now -- started doing it for both badminton and tennis in the 1980s, I think. Prior to that, I've played 2-paddle ping pong for some 40 years. Switched to right arm in volleyball in the early 90s (because of a shoulder injury). As a lefty in a right-handed world I learned to do quite a lot of things right-handed with a fair to decent amount of competency.

    Not sure that I'm really ambidextrous tho' -- I consider myself as functionally bi-lateral. For most skills I am still much better with my left had/arm than my right. This exception is (overhand) throwing and batting. While it appears that many lefties have learned to competently perform tasks with their right hand/arm, I have also come across quite a few righties that have been forced to learn to develop their left hand/arm. They have made the effort to develop the left side because of an auto accident or an injury (sometimes an overuse injury) to the right arm.

    I'm sure that more ppl could accomplish this feat but most are not motivated enough to put in the effort.
     
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  40. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

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    You're damn right I'm not going to go back and waste time on this drivel--I have a life. You blokes may have a history here with the prof but I don't--it's only tennis and not something important and meaningful--like group sex or something. I suggest you guys stop wasting your time too--unless your doing it on someone else's dime--I'm gonna' go look up ad hominem attacks now--I like hominy. Is it like what they do in that Italian village where they throw rotten tomatoes at each other? I gotta' go hit the hot tub now after a tough day on the courts--I am a French model and everything on the internet is true.
     
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  41. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

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    Now you're talking, if I'd done all that work I'd go find some hot tennis chick or a hooker and wouldn't waste energy on the merits of two handed tennis over the internet--it's only tennis.
     
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  42. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly G.O.A.T.

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    Bonjour! :twisted:

    Arguing about this might not be worth your while but learning to develop your non-dominant arm is not a waste of time. You actually generate new neural connections and keep your brain active/fluid by learning to use your non-dominant side. Is cognitive development/brain plasticity really a waste of your valuable time?
     
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  43. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    One problem with playing tennis with both hands....
    Each of your hands need a certain amount of practice and replication.
    Guess what? You have ONE set of legs....total!
    I see it in 5.0 players, 4.5's, and even in duffers like myself.
     
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  44. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

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    You lucky dog, I'm playin' on one leg. I need all the racquets I can get my hands on.
     
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  45. Professor Tennis

    Professor Tennis New User

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    On the subject of creating new neural pathways and what I like to call Neurobic Tennis (i.e., Two-racket Tennis):

    In their book, Keep Your Brain Alive: 83 Neurobic Exercises, the late Dr. Lawrence C. Katz and coauthor Manning Rubin introduced the concept of “neurobic” exercise to the public. Dr. Katz (was a professor of neurobiology at Duke University Medical Center and renowned for his research into brain development) coined the term “neurobic” for mind/body exercises that in short, present the brain with the unexpected or “non-routine.” In essence, experiences securing various combinations of the five senses (i.e., sight, hearing, smell, touch and taste) along with emotion in unique and challenging ways. For example, to make your routine, non-routine, you might decide to brush your teeth with your left-hand when normally you are right-handed. Or as I suggest, you could pick up a second tennis racket and play two-racket tennis. Both scenarios present the brain with the unexpected, which in turn may stimulate the development of new circuits in the brain. Give your brain what it craves… a challenge! When you go Two-Rack you never go back.
     
    #45
  46. Gonzalito17

    Gonzalito17 Hall of Fame

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    An interesting innovation for sure. But let me ask, did this all or partly arise because of an unfixably poor backhand?
     
    #46
  47. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

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    I doubt it, it would be much easier to fix the BH then relearn how to hit the ball with the opposite arm. Dr. Fisher could probably help with this, if he's still around, he helped Pete with his. In the title of the thread, the Prof says it's a "workout", using two rackets is not legal in play.

    Dan Millman, "THE WARRIOR ATHLETE", discusses the insights to be gained by learning how to do things with the opposite side of the body, thus opening up the opposite hemisphere of the mind.
     
    #47
  48. beernutz

    beernutz Hall of Fame

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    If you read the third paragraph in post #17 above by the professor, he claims using your off arm to hit a forehand will improve your ability to hit a one-handed backhand with your dominant arm. I don't see (and he doesn't explain) how developing a particular skill with one arm is going to translate to improving a different skill with the other but then again I don't see a lot of benefit to two racquet tennis in the first place. I guess the proof is in the pudding so to speak and that the professor must have one hella one-handed backhand by now after all the two racquet playing he's done. Maybe he'll put up a video demonstrating his killer OHBH.
     
    #48
  49. Gonzalito17

    Gonzalito17 Hall of Fame

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    He might be right. I started playing offhand lefty tennis, for the fun of it (to feel like a beginner again and also to be able to play when there are no 4.5s around) and you would be surrpised how quickly you get the knack of it. Even with serving. And my one hand righty backhand seems to have gotten better since adding playing lefty to my practice.

    Interesting theory.
     
    #49
  50. Professor Tennis

    Professor Tennis New User

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    When someone has an intelligent thought (aside from myself) no one responds. Well, I'll respond by saying, good for you. If you keep practicing this technique, you might even find yourself having as much fun as I do. Onward and upward.
     
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