Tying poly knots

Discussion in 'Stringing Techniques / Stringing Machines' started by Irvin, Jun 18, 2013.

  1. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    I can't understand why some people think it is difficult to tie off poly. Can someone help me understand? What is it that is so difficult? I actually think it is easier to tie off poly than any other string.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2013
    #1
  2. Tamiya

    Tamiya Semi-Pro

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    Helps to tug & hold tension on the loose tail before releasing clamp,
    less slippage on drawback.
     
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  3. bbulla

    bbulla Rookie

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    Those are probably the same people who are always asking for stringing patterns.
     
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  4. Arthuro

    Arthuro Semi-Pro

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    Come on...that's a little harsh. I have been stringing for about 14 years, and poly is harder to tie off and weave.
     
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  5. Mongolmike

    Mongolmike Professional

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    I dunno... I've been stringing since 2003 and I'd much rather tie off a multi or gut rather a poly... the string feels softer, its more flexible, I even think the knots look nicer. Then again, all I basically use IS poly... so I guess the occasional multi or gut is such a change for me- very noticable.
     
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  6. cluckcluck

    cluckcluck Hall of Fame

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    Obviously some people aren't as godly as you Irvin. Lighten up.
     
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  7. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    I see posts all the time where people have problems tying knots. Knot videos are by far the most popular stringing videos on YouTube. I am trying to understand the problem so I can help those who are having problems that's all. If you don't like what I am doing or how I am doing it put me on your ignore list.
     
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  8. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    For the most part Poly is harder to weave because it is stiffer. If you have problems tying knots what type of knot (double half hitch, Parnel, pro knot, etc...) do you use? I had problems using a starting knot before switching to the VS Starting knot, but I seldom use a starting knot.

    If there are others that don't have issues with knots what type knots are you using? Maybe the knot issues stringers have are associated with their knots and not their process.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2013
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  9. Ramon

    Ramon Hall of Fame

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    Maybe these people are using poly with hard, sharp edges and pulling with their bare hands? I use needle nose pliers.
     
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  10. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Ramon assuming you do not have issues what knot do you use most often?
     
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  11. Ramon

    Ramon Hall of Fame

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    I use them all. I use Parnell for stiff strings, double half hitch for soft strings, starting knot for first cross, and pro knot for tight spots.
     
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  12. Maui19

    Maui19 Hall of Fame

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    You are redlining the crabby meter.
     
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  13. Arthuro

    Arthuro Semi-Pro

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    I use Parnell knots for tying off mains and crosses and the bulky knot as a starting knot.

    I start the mains with the Yuzuki method.
     
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  14. mmk

    mmk Professional

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    For me it is the stiffness of the poly. I tend to end up with kinks rather than loops while forming the knots. What helped me the most was using an awl to hold the string in place in the grommet so I didn't have to worry about maintaining tension while forming the knot.
     
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  15. Mongolmike

    Mongolmike Professional

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    I use the Parnell for finishing, and the starting knot for starting the cross on a 2 pc (obviously). I think with a softer string it is easier to cinch with the Parnell because sometimes the poly will slip back and loosen a little.

    All in all, tying knots is all about finger dexterity (and the technical knowledge). For some, their fingers might be too bulky and it is harder to manipulate the loops... for others it might just be a lack of familiarity with the technique. So if you have decent dexterity and knot knowledge, tying knots shouldn't be a problem no matter what type of string.
     
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  16. seekay

    seekay Semi-Pro

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    I suspect that tools play a part. If you've got a starting clamp and a nice machine that gives you room to work, knots are easy.

    When I was starting out on a machine with screw-down mounting (like this), I remember having to pre-plan to leave enough space for my hand to get around the mounting arms, past the clamp, and up to the stringbed. Now that I've got a suspension-mount rig, I can skip all that planning and thinking and just reach in and tie a knot.

    There's nothing fundamentally difficult about tying a knot with poly, but because of its stiffness and low friction, it can exacerbate other problems a new stringer might be facing.
     
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  17. max pl

    max pl Rookie

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    exact same setup i use for everything.
     
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  18. v-verb

    v-verb Hall of Fame

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    Hate tying poly knots.

    But what about gut - poly where you have to tie off the poly crosses onto the gut mains? Doesn't that cut the gut?
     
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  19. Andyroo10567

    Andyroo10567 Professional

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    Tying poly knots isn't hard. It just hurts when your tugging to tighten it when its a # shaped poly.
     
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  20. Oz_Rocket

    Oz_Rocket Semi-Pro

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    I never had problems till I did a shaped poly (Sonic Pro Edge) for the first time. Doing a Parnell knot if I made the first loop a bit too tight before cinching it closer to the grommet it would retain "memory" of the first loop making it impossible to get tight against the grommet.

    Now I make sure I close the first loop as close as possible to the grommet and use a starting clamp to cinch it up. The clamp also saves my fingers getting cut.
     
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  21. kkm

    kkm Semi-Pro

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    It's not what I prefer, but if one knows what he's doing he can tie poly onto gut, no problem.
     
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  22. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    If you string one piece you won't have that problem. LOL Just kidding guys. I think the trick is to watch that first half hitch. If you pull the poly under the gut to fast and or too tight you will burn the gut. If you tie your knot to tight you break the poly.

    EDIT: And using a starting knot (more often than not) gets around the issue altogether as usually the bottom cross ties off on a cross string (but not always.)
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2013
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  23. v-verb

    v-verb Hall of Fame

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    Thanks Irvin - will give it a try!
     
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  24. wrxtotoro

    wrxtotoro Rookie

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    Just open a cross grommet with an awl and tie off on the cross.
     
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  25. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    I suspect they're trying to do it by hand. When using a starting clamp, it's not difficult at all.
     
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  26. RetroSpin

    RetroSpin Hall of Fame

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    I just noticed the lower cross tie off on my PD has one loop inside the outer main and one outside the main. It appears to be a double half hitch. In other words, the main is trapped between the two loops.

    There is very little movement in either string at that point so I am afraid to try to depress the string enough to clear the main out of the loop.

    Other than being sloppy, is this a potential problem?
     
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  27. struggle

    struggle Hall of Fame

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    i wouldn't think so. if it breaks at that spot i'll change my mind.
     
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  28. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    I would leave it alone and not worry about it. The first half hitch is more than likely going to hold it but it is not very professional looking. If the string that connects the two hald hitches goes over the main there isn't anything you can do anyway. I've seen a racket like that where the string was tied off on the main (through the cross hole) instead of the cross and the customer didn't even notice it until I pointed it out.
     
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  29. RetroSpin

    RetroSpin Hall of Fame

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    Irvin,

    No, it's not tied off on the main. The main just splits the two loops. I was worried that the knot might fail. Thanks for reassuring me.
     
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  30. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    No I was just saying I have seen it tied to the outside main instead of the cross.
     
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  31. SwankPeRFection

    SwankPeRFection Hall of Fame

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    My knots on poly are just as good as the ones on syn gut type strings. Poly is just a bit rougher on the hands to string and tie off, but that's it. I'll usually grab my shirt and then loop the poly string around my hand to pull the knot so I don't cut into my hands (not literally, but you know what I mean).
     
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  32. spinovic

    spinovic Hall of Fame

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    Speaking as a new stringer (just bought my machine in the spring and have since done roughly 8-10 stringing jobs), polys were more difficult for me simply because the string is stiffer.

    I had no trouble at all with my first job stringing a multi (or a syn gut). But, my first poly was a nightmare when tying the knots.

    To use an extreme analogy, I would liken it to the difference in tying a shoelace vs. trying to the same thing with a wire clothes hanger. The techniques are the same, but the stiffer material makes it tougher.

    Not to fear though, I got the hang of it after a couple or three stringings. I still think it is easier to do non-poly strings (and as someone else noted, the knots themselves look better), but I have no issue with poly knots any longer.

    And, FWIW, much of it was thanks to the videos posted by you and Yulitle (right name?). So, as far as that goes, I don't know that there is anything you could or need to do differently. For me, it just took a little practice and getting some experience.
     
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  33. spinovic

    spinovic Hall of Fame

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    That's the other thing I meant to note - the "memory" effect on polys. That has happened to me before as well and it is a nightmare to get it tied in a way that I'm happy with after that happens. But, as I said, I've gotten better at it, so its not much of an issue any longer.

    That doesn't happen with non-polys.
     
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  34. Wikky

    Wikky Rookie

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    I didn't really bother reading the thread but not all of us own several starting clamps to make it significantly easier.
     
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  35. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    I believe I could tie knots just as well without a starting clamp, but a clamp makes it easier to hold.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2013
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  36. Ramon

    Ramon Hall of Fame

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    I own a starting clamp, but I hardly ever use it. If I do a pattern where I need another clamp in addition to my fixed clamps, I usually use a flying clamp. For tying knots, I prefer needle nose pliers. So for me, the main use for my starting clamp is to use as a bridge when I don't have enough string to reach the gripper.
     
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  37. Rjtennis

    Rjtennis Hall of Fame

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    Poly knots with poly is easier than most other strings. It is suprising that people find it challenging.
     
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  38. zaskar1

    zaskar1 New User

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    tieing poly strings

    hi irwin

    poly is much stiffer than other strings, therefore less plyable, perhaps that is what users are alluding to.

    tieing poly is hard on your fingers, i am with ramon, i as i often use pliers to grip the poly on the end.

    personally i find other types of string easier to tie because of the pliability issue, but poly isnt that bad once you get use to it

    z
     
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