Discussion in 'Odds & Ends' started by Kobble, Mar 1, 2011.
Have a look.
its very unfortunate that this breed has been adopted by wanna be tough guys that think its cool to have a strong tough dog.
Pitbulls are not bad dogs. They are extremely strong and I have no interest in fighting with one but once again when properly trained and cared for they can be very calm and good dogs.
Dog owners who let their dogs run wild and attack others should be jailed. Fines are not enough they need to start serving jail time.
Ive had pitbulls, i'm not dumb, and i dont talk like him. stupid people shouldn't own a dog that is hard to control and train, idiots think that having a tough dog makes the tough, stupid idiot. The dog should be taken to a shelter instead of being killed, its not the dogs fault that the owner couldn't control or properly take care of his own pet. I hate the stereotype that surrounds pitbulls and pitbull owners.
My uncle has two pitbulls. Sweet dogs. Loving. Playful. People gave pitbulls bad names.
Boy, I dunno.
I've mentioned that I am volunteering at WARL (Washington Animal Rescue League). Guess what dogs seem to be in need of more rescuing than any other breed? Pit bulls.
I'll come right out and say it: I am not a fan of the breed. I think they are more likely to bite and to hurt. Plus, they are unbelievably strong. Even the claws on the puppies are like talons.
Part of the volunteering is "dog walking" and socializing. You leash a dog that needs to go out, you take it it to a fenced area and play with it for 10 minutes and let it do its business, and then you take it back to its den and go get the next dog. Not exciting, but it needs to be done.
The pit bulls are my least favorite dogs to take out. They are so strong that I can struggle to control them on a leash, although I can control my own 60-pound Aussie just fine. My teen son comes with me, and we work in tandem. A pit bull started jumping up and biting at my son's shirt, and I had to kind of punch the dog in the ribs to make it stop. And remember, we volunteers don't interact with the dogs until they have passed their temperament assessment -- so this dog was one of the "good" pit bulls.
In looking for a dogs, there are so many better choices. I don't understand the desire of anyone to own a pitbull, honestly.
Not going to lie, I've kinda been hoping that a thread like this would pop up so that I can jump up on my soapbox.....
It really is sad that these dogs end up in the hands of idiot owners. I could not agree more with the bolded part though.
The owners should be put down not the dogs. That's my stance on it.
Glad to hear that. I love my bully.
Pit bulls are in dire need of rescue. My bully, Bella, was a rescue and we got her at 14 wks old.
Now, I will not argue for a second that they are not strong dogs. They have very powerful hind quarters and that gives them tremendous pulling strength. But, the easy way to remedy that....leash train the dog. It took about 4 walks (30 min each) to get my dog leash trained. Now, she does have the occasional moment where another dog barks through a fence and she gets excited. But other than that, not a problem.
As far as more likely to bite and hurt, I wholeheartedly disagree. They are no more likely to bite or hurt than any other dog. Domesticated dogs only follow actions that they have learned from their owners. I have seen plenty of dogs, of all breeds, raised responsibly that have never bitten or been aggressive towards anyone. I've also seen a Jack Russell terrier that was so mean and aggressive that it could only be handled by certain people. It's not the dog or the breed but who raised that particular animal.
As for the claws, part of responsible pet ownership is grooming and hygiene.
As for the dog that jumped on your son, someone should have better trained that one and I hope that more attention was given to that dog to correct that behavior. But from my own experience, well trained and behaved bullys are very social and playful. This may have been what this dog was trying to do but it had not been taught properly how to interact. I certainly hope that you brought that to the attention of the people at the shelter that you volunteer at and for your work there, I have the utmost respect.
I have to disagree on the last line you wrote though. If you look at the history of the breed, Pit Bulls were used in the frontier times as nanny dogs. their inherently docile nature lead parents to leave them with their children while they were out working the land.
It was not until humans started taking advantage of their temperament that pit bulls gained the completely undeserved reputation that they have today. A pit bull will do anything and everything for its owner or family. The dogs that are abused in fighting still show love towards the person they recognize as their owner. Just not towards anyone else.
Our dog routinely plays with our 6 and 3 year old and has never once nipped, bit or scratched them. Why? Our dog is trained on how to interact with our kids and our kids are trained on how to interact with the dog.
Owning a dog is a privilege that comes with great responsibility. And that goes both ways.
I would have no issue with having one as I am a pretty strong guy but I agree with you that it is not for physically weaker people. They are big and very strong. Just like I wouldnt recommend an old lady get a Burmese Mountain Dog. People need to be more selective about the breed they adopt.
I honestly thought about trying to rescue a pittbull or a rottie but I live next to a lot of kids. My neighborhood has at least 2-3 kids a house so it wouldnt have been a smart decision to risk that. I trust myself and my family but when ever you have kids around everything is out the window. I cant count how many times kids have come screaming and running up to my Aussie and Jack Russel. Even with the Aussie I have to be careful as mine is 55lbs. If he jumps or bites it hurts.
Which also brings up something that really irks me. If you have children please inform them that it is not a good idea to run up to pet random dogs. I understand that some kids love animals and are curious but they need to understand that not all dogs are comfortable with being run up to. My Aussie is used to it as the little boys next door love him but my older Jack Russel never was really socialized with kids and gets really nervous when they come running at her.
Does anybody understand what this guy is saying?
I actually found the original pitbull owner video searching for exotic pet owners on Youtube.
Another sharp pitbull owner
Notice the big chain leash for public safety. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9i8RezZdho&feature=related
"My dogs teeth are bigger." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yi02psMSC34
Saltwater Crocodile owners
If you don't know what a saltwater crocodile is, think Lake Placid.
"Attacks without fail." Sounds like the perfect pet.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQdR_1-8ybM
If anyone could make it through the whole video I would be surprised.
I couldn't hang. Closed the window after about a minute in. That guy was absolutely pathetic.
In school and off the streets kids!
I have 2 pit bulls that me and my fiancee rescued when they were pups, and they are the sweetest, most loving dogs. Of course if you leave any dog tied up all day and beat it with rusty chains, then it's going to have issues. It's the owners not the dogs people. They are just big and strong enough that when you have a poorly trained one attack someone, they do big time damage, that's why they get a bad name. And certain types gravitate to big strong dogs so they can be tough too.
Most poodles I've met are downright nasty, and the breed that actually bites more people a year than any other is .....golden retrievers. And of course little yappy dogs are always biting people, but they don't do much damage.
The reason people fight pit bulls is not because they are so much more aggressive, but their pain tolerance is super high. Another reason why they are known to be very good with small children, they can takes tugs on the ears and whatnot.
This is exactly right. I have a cocker spaniel that is 4 years old, and is a very young looking dog. Kids love cocker spaniels because of their cute floppy ears. Cocker spaniels are known for not being great dogs to have around kids, and sure enough mine is not good with kids. He was a rescue dog and we got him when he was almost 2 years old so we don't know what his background was.
We also have a 2 year old siberian husky who is very sweet and loves kids. We got her as a 7 week old puppy and were able to socialize her easier with kids.
We went to the dog park, and some lady comes in with her daughter, who was about 6 years old. I don't have a problem with kids coming to the dog park at all. What I do have a problem with is when people come to the dog park with their kids, and spend the whole time on their cell phone not paying attention to where their little kid is; which is why I am very careful with our cocker whenever there is a little kid in the dog park. So, this kid was sitting over by a tree, and our husky goes over to the kid and lies down right next to her and the girl was petting her. I was about 10 feet away with my other dog.
The lady comes running over to the daughter and says to get away from the husky because they are vicious and tells her to go play with the cute puppy over there (the spaniel). So, I just picked him up and walked to the other side of the park.
Even people on Judge Judy don't wear pajamas in the court room. Get the dog (the animal) a proper owner and lock this guys ignant ass in jail.
Pit Bulls are great breed of dog.
They are the most loyal breed I have ever seen. Its that loyalty that makes them great to these thugs that fight them. They will literally die to win the affection of the owner, no matter how bad that owner treats them.
My moms pit bull, which my sister named Henessey has more personality than some poeple, and would never hurt another person not intending harm on my mom or her family.
Now in her older age she's 12 now, she has gotten less tolerable of other dogs, and only wants to be left alone when she is not in the mood to play.
It ain't about the dog. It is well established that through time, different dog breeds have appealed to the type of dog owner, who frankly shouldn't have any dog breed (except stuffed animals). You know, the type who are likely to mistreat the dog and excourage aggressive behavior.
There was once a time when that group of owners owned German Shepherds, then they bought Dobermans, then Rottweilers, now it is Staffordshires. True at this time Staffies are overrepresented in maulings etc but it is a popularity thing. That is, back when the buffoons prefered Dobermans Staffordshires were not in the top ten of attacks, etc. When the idiots move on to another breed, the percentage of Staffies who are in these attacks will drop.
I owned 2 pitbulls, very loving animals, very strong too. They indeed can be agressive with other dogs but you can usually control that. As other have posted the owner is to be blame. You can't blame an animal for being an animal, you can't forbid it either.
I love the support that bully owners are showing for the breed. They are great dogs. It's the bad owners that give the breed a bad reputation.
Any breed either pitbull or german shep ... They all barking @ mailman
I rescued a pitbull mix and it's the nicest, sweetest most loyal dog I've ever owned.
LOVE MY PITBULL!
You Tube videos are interesting but in reality there are a tremendous number of actual facts relating to dogs, dog attacks, breeds and legal issues surrounding all of these things. There is no question that our attempts to domesticate dogs have some real drawbacks.
There are about 5 million dog bites per year in the U.S. alone!
Pit bulls, Rottweilers, Presa Canarios and their mixes are responsible for 74% of attacks.
Whether you blame owners or the dogs, this is an epidemic. Nobody should be surprised by increasing regulation, lawsuits and challenges getting adequate insurance.
Much more at:
I will semi agree to this. Dogs are animals and people dont understand warning signs they give off. Dogs are territorial and when they think they are the big dog they will protect it at all costs. That means it will fight to the death to get you out of its area. This is where being a good owner is very critical. Especially if you have a stronger breed. If it thinks its the lead dog and has to protect everyone then the results will be bad.
I always argue these stats. How many dog bites go unreported?
What element are you debating and how do unreported bites change the data?
If you were to argue that it's not those breeds doing the attacking, you would be assuming that there is some kind of bias against specific breeds in the reporting process. Doesn't really make sense. People report bad bites, regardless of breed, and not so much small bites, again regardless of breed.
Indeed, the actual Clifton study focused on those serious injuries in the first place. It is linked below. Again, I'm not making a value judgment about whether it is the pit bull or its owner, but about outcomes - facts are facts.
http://www.dogbitelaw.com/Dog Attacks 1982 to 2006 Clifton.pdf
It's a bad breed, no doubt.
Some things I find interesting:
(1) politically, local cities find it tough to enact ordinances against pitbull because the pitbull owners seem, themselves, threatening and unreasonable, and they make a lot of noise.
(2) here, where I live, pit bulls are often in the pound.
(3) we have had a few cases of exceptionally aggressive behavior in which people were seriously harmed.
(4) The danger is real. I'm in favor of some kind of pitbull regulation.
No kidding. So many ankle biter dogs bite people all the time, it goes unreported because the bite does no damage. Ya' think the size of the animal may have an impact on how severe the injury is? I've personally encountered far more aggressive little yappy dogs than any other. The worst part is the owners of these dogs typically don't take it very seriously when their dog bites someone.
People buy pitbulls in order to make a statement. The same reason used by people who buy AK-47 assault rifles. The same reason used by bodybuilders who pack 285 pounds of muscle on a 5 foot 9 inch frame. The same reason why a person would buy a 150,000 dollar watch. The same reason why someone would buy a 1,000 gallon aquarium and fill it with carnivorous fish and feed them small live animals. The same reason why some people can't get through a single conversation without name-dropping a famous person.
They all love to drive on the "road to excess" (as coined by William Blake).
These kinds of people usually nauseate me. Everything they do screams "Look at me, look at me, look at me..." Can't stand that.
I'm sorry, but you are completely ignorant of the situation. Please stop perpetuating the myth. I'm in favor of "some kind of regulation" against people who spout non-informed opinions on subjects they are uneducated about, who don't look at both sides of the coin.
Also, pit bull is a generic term for 20-something different breeds of dog. So which one of them is threatening your security? Or would it happen to be all? 20-something different breeds all happen to have the same angry, hateful disposition? If they have a good owner, like any dog, they will have the exact temperament that you claim your signature describes you.
This is just wrong. All wrong.
I'm sure that there are cases like that. More pit bulls are put down every year because of the reputation.
If you want to enact some legislation, make it tougher for people to be able to own all animals. The simple fact is that people sell or adopt out pit bulls without doing a proper background check. The allure of fast cash in dogfighting is simply too much for many people deny. The dogs get abused and turned into violent creatures.
I personally believe that dogs are like humans in that they are born Tabula Rasa. Clean slate. A dog will be what it is raised to be it is not born violent or aggressive.
Yeah, if everyone reported those what do you want to bet that some smaller breeds would overtake pit bulls.
But who is going to back legislation against Pomerainians.
If you wonder why Pits and Rotties are at the top of the bite list.....here's a big surprise.....THEY ARE THE DOGS THAT ARE BEING THE MOST ABUSED!!! Abused dogs are going to react the worst and cause the most damage because that is what their idiot owners have trained them to do.
It is not the dog's fault.
First,...If You watch the video, I dont believe 'Pitbull' is the issue at hand. The 'issue' that i saw was a complete refusal to own responsibility by a 'dog owner' to the point of absurdity.
I believe Max was exactly correct on his points, though somewhat subjective.
Irresponsible groups that harbor these kinds of animals historically 'hide behind' their responsibility through obfuscation, changing the issue, and quibbling over minutia (much as was done in the video).
Do You think owners of digs as the one in the video 'encourage domestication' of their animals??,..teaching them to 'not bite' ??(despite deep genetics,..in the dog). Somehow I think this is probably not the case.
The issue here is 'folks' keeping particular dogs or breeds of dogs because'its tough' and it can be used in the case of a street altercation.
oh, and by the way,...its also illegal to carry a handgun in your waist w/o a permit to carry. (that would be a fascinating statistic,...correlation between 'pitbull owners and handgun carriers')
Yes, but if the dog already has the propensity, ability, physiology, and temperament for fighting, then it will probably be raised for fighting.
Evolution works this way for a reason. Pit bull breeds have evolved that way for a reason. And it isn't just their bodies that have evolved. Their minds have evolved commensurately. Pit bull breeds are aggressive. Just like fish... not all are created equal. Oscars are incredibly tempermental and aggressive fish while a Molly is incredibly passive.
If I want to find an escaped prisoner or a dope stash, I'm probably going to employ a bloodhound and not a pit bull. For good reason. The bloodhound has evolved as the better breed for that kind of task.
I hear too many pit bull owners try to make the argument that how a dog is raised is the sole determinant of its temperament. That couldn't be further from the truth. Animal breeds are predisposed for temperament and ability. That is the reality. Get over it.
That's true. But that doesn't mean that the dog should be treated as if it were any other dog such as a toy poodle. All dogs are not created equal. And some are downright dangerous.
Sure, they want the toughest animal they can get without going through legal red tape. And, something loyal to them, but not to others.
I've known some pitbull owners. One kid got one, and it was friendly. However, he would say crap like, "When we walk it, no dog messes with it, that dog knows it is badass."
I know a little something about pets and wild animals, as well as what emotions go with wanting certain things. These days, or at least for the last 5-8 years, people have been using dogs as some kind of bully tool. And I don't really think these people care if their dogs are put down, because that would be like a soldier dying in the line of duty. I say, start sending owners of dog attacks to jail. Then the owner can go play prisoner of war. Fines may not be that big of a deal. These guys might make that up by selling puppies. The amount of dog attacks making the news in my county is unreal, and I think Pitbulls were banned in the county south of me (Broward). So, now we have people moving here so they can keep their lifestyle.
(Rick You forgot, we're in America, and despite statistics, what You see on the news, what You read in the paper, what You hear on the radio, what You see on COPS, etc, ...You have to remember, 'always think of every dog as the same, until its too late',...because after all,..they might not ALL be like that,...:neutral
Pit bulls are no more aggressive to other animals than Jake Russells or any other terrier. And fact is, they are not naturally aggressive towards humans. THAT is reality bud. Deal with that. Again, the main reason they are bred to fight is because they have a higher tolerance for pain than other breeds, not that they are more aggressive, Terriers, all terriers, are more aggressive towards other animals than other breeds. But you don't see Jack Russell fights going on, do you? I think they should probably put down all roosters as well. I hear they like to fight too.
See above comments.
That doesn't remove the fact that they still can be dangerous. You can have a very angry chihuahua and still nobody gets hurt or killed, but you can't say the same for an average size pitbull.
Nobody disputes that responsibility with dangerous dogs lies much with their owners. But since we can't regulate people's irresponbisibility and stupidity -- we would if we could -- the next best thing is to get rid of these animals altogether. The same goes for guns in private citizen's hands.
What isn't clear with this argument?
^^^a few articles obtained easily,....
the following is an excerpt from the web article that follows the excerpt.
The deadliest dogs
Merritt Clifton, editor of Animal People, has conducted an unusually detailed study of dog bites from 1982 to the present. (Clifton, Dog attack deaths and maimings, U.S. & Canada, September 1982 to November 13, 2006; click here to read it.) The Clifton study show the number of serious canine-inflicted injuries by breed. The author's observations about the breeds and generally how to deal with the dangerous dog problem are enlightening.
According to the Clifton study, pit bulls, Rottweilers, Presa Canarios and their mixes are responsible for 74% of attacks that were included in the study, 68% of the attacks upon children, 82% of the attacks upon adults, 65% of the deaths, and 68% of the maimings. In more than two-thirds of the cases included in the study, the life-threatening or fatal attack was apparently the first known dangerous behavior by the animal in question. Clifton states: If almost any other dog has a bad moment, someone may get bitten, but will not be maimed for life or killed, and the actuarial risk is accordingly reasonable. If a pit bull terrier or a Rottweiler has a bad moment, often someone is maimed or killed--and that has now created off-the-chart actuarial risk, for which the dogs as well as their victims are paying the price. Clifton's opinions are as interesting as his statistics. For example, he says, "Pit bulls and Rottweilers are accordingly dogs who not only must be handled with special precautions, but also must be regulated with special requirements appropriate to the risk they may pose to the public and other animals, if they are to be kept at all."
There really isnt much of an argument to this,...these were the first 4 sites i found,....i could go on and on,...but really??...is the issue 'pitbulls'??
Them and rottweilers are the dog of choice for the filthy chav scum around the area I'm from.
The great irony of this thread is that the type of emotion seen here, mainly from the ultra-passionate defenders of pit bulls, is exacerbating the problem and preventing solutions.
Whenever reasonable regulations that merely address facts (without assigning blame between humans and dogs) are adopted or even suggested, the "pit bull lobby" goes ballistic.
The result is that we do not have a clear, predictable and consistent set of rules nationally. That, in turn, means that we "solve" this in the 21st century's version of the jungle - the courtroom. Litigation on this front is going bananas, causing much bigger problems than simple breed-specific regulation. Indeed, one of the best known experts on dog bites (and the guy who runs www.dogbitelaw.com) is Ken Phillips - a personal injury lawyer!
It's clear that it's an unbelievably stupid argument. Are they killing or injuring nearly the amount that guns are? Are they just running wild in the street destroying people and property alike, at all times?
I mean gosh, a semi truck does a helluva lot more damage when it collides with other vehicles than a Smart car. Should we get rid of them too? I mean it is people causing these accidents, but we can't blame them right?
You're not addressing facts. Thank you.
Your analogies are stupid and not applicable. We can't get rid of semi trucks, ie we need them, so we have to put up with the consequences. We can get rid of pitbulls or dangerous dogs as in we do not allow poisonous snakes, aligators to be owned as pet.
There are abundant other dogs that are harmless to own as pets. Nobody dies if pitbulls vanish tomorrow.
I like the part where it says "If a pit bull terrier or a Rottweiler has a bad moment, often someone is maimed or killed" Often? Right. Are there stats on that too? Do they secrete a poison when they bite that kills ?
I know that you have to all be aware you can skew numbers in any way to prove a point.
I'm also sure that most of you have been on the other side of the fence, speaking to someone who has formed an opinion based on hearsay and "stats" that aren't even close to having a baseline, and wondering how someone can be so willfully ignorant. That's the internet though, I won't change your mind and you won't change mine, so have a good 'un.
Good point!!...Why didnt I think of that???...in fact,..more people die in auto related deaths than by handguns so,...obviously we shouldnt concern ourselves with handguns then!!!....(or vice versa,..im taking the time to look that up,..You get the point..)
...Know when You have no argument as opposed to trying to 'force that square peg into that round hole'.
You're right. Kill a bunch of innocent animals because humans are irresponsible and stupid. I bet that humans kill and maim more humans by far than any breed of animal, or all animals combined, every year. What is your solution to that genius?
My overall point was that it is an incredible overreaction by people. It's not like they are stamping through town killing everyone.
I think this argument comes down to those of us who have been around dogs our entire lives and love them and those that have not. I have been around all kinds of dogs including Pitbulls and have even had some be pretty aggressive towards me. I still have no fear and can tell you that no dog breed is dangerous when properly trained and worked with.
I am a firm believer that there are very few bad dogs but a very large group of people that should not own dogs. This isnt just the people that use them for fighting but just about everyone who isnt willing to make the commitment that a dog requires.
You obviously didn't read any of the links I provided to www.dogbitelaw.com. More facts on the breed tendencies there than you can shake a stick at.
But thanks for continuing to prove my point with all of the emotion and personal attacks against those who disagree with you.
Well in the case of 'humans' ,...they are 'deterred' by incarceration,...so they cant use their gun, knife, or pit bull against another human. I dont think anybody denies its a combination of the breed along with owners that 'choose' the breed...(with some occasional exceptions..) And I would argue that the majority of those owners ARE keeping that animal in the same way they would keep a gun or knife.
Wrong. That isn't what my logic says. My logic says that certain breeds are predisposed for certain levels of aggressiveness. If you deny that, then you are in biological fantasy land and need to go back to school.
"She has ways." What... as if she were a human? I see. So what does she do? Does she "use her words" like a good girl? You raised your girl to reason properly like a good girl? You raised your girl to be non-violent? Sorry, but you are just another pet owner who treats and views their pet as a human.
Where did you get that info? The Pit Bull Lovers page? Give me a real reputable source that shows how Pit Bulls were the primary guardian of children. You aren't going to find it. All you are going to find is a bunch of Pit Bull advocates and humanizers who spew the same garbage justifications on their blogs.
I know for a fact that with every pit bull attack and fatality, you already would justify it as the dog being raised improperly, the owner being irresponsible... whatever. It doesn't matter what a pit bull does, you are going to explain its behavior away. In your mind, the perfectly raised pitbull (whatever that means), would never attack anyone incorrectly. It would never make a "mistake" (animals don't make mistakes by the way -- that is a human thing). You conveniently treat the dog as a human except when it comes down to choice. That is where you give the dog a pass.
Let's be clear... these are animals. They don't think like you and me. They don't reason like you and me. Animals don't have a value system. They don't know wrong or right. Animals can be dangerous. Pit bulls, due to their physiology and default temperament can be especially dangerous.
But we'll agree to disagree on this. I'm not going to convince you that your girl isn't human, and you aren't going to convince me that your girl isn't an animal. So we'll leave it at that.
OHMYGOSH, you're stupid beyond reasoning. Yes, humans kill humans by far the most, but we can't get rid of humans. So, we deal with ourselves the best we could via rules and laws. We literally CAN outlaw, get rid of, owning a pitbull. And we do not have to do so instantly by killing the ones that are in existence. Neuter them all and don't breed them, sell them anymore for pet purposes. Do we breed wolfs and tigers to sell as pets?
Separate names with a comma.