U of Memphis tennis = U of Ireland tennis??

Discussion in 'College Tennis Talk' started by PaulC, Apr 27, 2012.

  1. Misterbill

    Misterbill Semi-Pro

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    Wow, tough talk there, Tiger.

    So anyway, you are talking about the Longhorn men, right?

    Non-American freshmen and sophs:

    Glasspool 11/19/93
    Hess-Oleson 9/1/91
    Sitraram 8/23/91
    Swaysland 4/11/93

    American Juniors and Seniors:

    Camillone 6/28/91
    Chen 2/7/91
    Hilliard 7/16/90
    Whitehead 11/16/90

    http://www.texassports.com/sports/m-tennis/mtt/tex-m-tennis-mtt.html

    Or are you talking about the women? If so, I'll let you post up the link to their ages.
     
  2. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

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    So, I had a conversation with a mid major coach in the southeast recently about this topic. He is south American and his roster (women's) is 100% international. He has won multiple conference titles. I asked why he doesn't have Americans on his roster and if he even bothered recruiting them. This is at a school with no football team and a basketball program of moderate success. State school as well.

    His response was interesting. He said that many years ago he would recruit Americans. It was a challenge to get talented Americans to visit, much less commit. The players that would visit were often less talented than what he could pull from South America. The few that did attend often times had issues with playing time. He would spend time dealing with these players and complaints from their parents about why they weren't improving. Ultimately, they were improving but just lacked the ability to play at a higher level. He only recalled 1 American player that came in, played, and graduated. The majority either quit or transferred to lesser programs where they could play more.

    The international players have their issues as well, but the majority had stronger work ethics and embraced the idea of playing in America. They didnt look at it as if the ACC or SEC had turned them down. They looked at it as D1 tennis where they could play the sport and get an American education. Recruiting them was easier as there wasnt as much competition from other schools. He was well connected so therefore the kids would return his emails and usually commit without ever seeing the school. Just based on trust between their coaches and him.

    While some internationals would quit or transfer, his teams always have had strong GPAs and produced on the tennis court. The rate of transfer was far lower as well.

    So, my conclusion for his program was that it just makes perfect sense to recruit primarily international. Those kids want to be there. He doesn't have to beg them to visit. He doesn't have to beg them to commit. and he wins with the international players on and off the court. Why would he spend more time, energy, and money recruiting locally when he doesn't have to?
     
  3. Misterbill

    Misterbill Semi-Pro

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    Did this coach say he takes into account things such as national pride, use of state taxpayers' money, the future of tennis in the US, or the disappointment of a local player who might not have gotten an offer? These are all considerations that have been raised by others on the Board
     
  4. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

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    I can't say that it came up. Knowing him, it probably would've gotten a half smile and a casual "no" response.

    He is going on his third decade of coaching at the school, so I doubt he cares much what the posters here think of these issues. His AD and school president respect him and take care of him and the program. That is pretty much all that matters to him.
     
  5. Clemson_tennis

    Clemson_tennis Legend

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    That sounds like the ETSU coach of the mens team. He recruits 100% from South America.
     
  6. Gatorluver

    Gatorluver New User

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    When your 17-18 year old is competing for a spot with 20-21 year olds, yes it impacts scholarships, playing time, and the schools they choose. Maybe some of these posters are dealing with it firsthand, why so quick to assume they are wrong and accuse them of a bias against foreigners? They are more likely biased against an unfair system, not the person.


    I agree completely with this statement and am biased against the unfair system NOT the foreign kids. Also want to add that once a coach recruits a foreign player and offers him a substantial scholarship, it doesn’t matter how hard our kids work or how much they win in practice. The coach feels they must play the foreign kids over the local talent. Two foreigners per team level the playing field AND allows our kids the opportunity to play and improve.
     
  7. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

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    ^^^I dunno. Then our kids don't get hired for jobs and blame it on those foreigners. It's a stretch, but I look at things from way higher up. I like to see people earn their keep instead of changing rules so they are given things.

    That being said, I am totally for an under-20 freshman rule. Hit 20, tough - no sports for you. Kids all over the world need to be making the college vs pro decision at the same age. And, if the foreigner guesses wrong, turns pro, and fizzles out at 21, he/she shouldn't be able to enroll as a sophomore in America. That rule has always been total BS. I don't like

    And I know my Gators have taken advantage of that rule & I am fond of our French imports on a personal level.
     
  8. Gatorluver

    Gatorluver New User

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    I'm fond of them too on a personal level but I'm more fond on my Florida boys. I've watched most of the FL boys presently on the team grow up and I think several of them are getting a raw deal due to the current rules on international players.
     
  9. Misterbill

    Misterbill Semi-Pro

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    I don't know if I agree with you or not.

    What system is unfair?

    The system that encourages coaches to recruit the best available talent regardless of nationality? Or the system......if it exists.....that has coaches recruiting inferior foreigners over superior available Americans? I sure would be opposed to that latter system.

    And there are coaches who are fielding teams with inferior foreign starters in the lineup, while superior Americans are sitting....because of their respective nationalities? You are suggesting the Florida men's team is an example of this? That's terrible. Wonder how the Gator fans can stand for this
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2012
  10. Satsuma Illini

    Satsuma Illini Semi-Pro

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    The first thing on my list would be whether they want to play for my school or not. That would go over any nationality issues.

    The second thing I might want is for my team to be half foreigners/half Americans. If there are a whole bunch of kids who are eager to play for my school, then I would keep it half/half but if there are more foreigners who are more eager to commit to my school then the half-half rule would go out the window. If it is a toss up between taking an American player or foreigner, then the American might win, just because of the fact that this is an American school.

    Not sure if that made any sense but that's the way I feel about it.
     
  11. Gatorluver

    Gatorluver New User

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    The unfair system is the one that allows coaches to recruit 20-year-old foreign players who have played the ATP tour for a couple years and then decide to come here for a free education. Once a coach has these men on his roster, he feels compelled to play them due to the expense of having them here, even if others are performing better. Yes. it's happening at Florida and many others universities around the country.
     
  12. Vicious Vik

    Vicious Vik Semi-Pro

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    Free? Tennis gets 4.5 scholarships.
     
  13. Gatorluver

    Gatorluver New User

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    Correct, the foreign players probably do not have full rides but are taking schlorship money and playing time away from Americans.
     
  14. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

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    Seeing as the NCAA rarely makes a recruiting rule specific to a single sport, how would you feel if this applied across the board in all sports, for all athletes?

    I'm thinking of athletes like Chris Weinke or Brandon Weeden that played pro baseball (and accepted payment) until they fizzled out and then went to college to play football on scholarship.

    I would think that if you make a under 20 year old freshman rule (which I adamantly support) you would have to also have to nix the issues like this. Thoughts?
     
  15. usta2050

    usta2050 Rookie

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    Are you an African American?
     
  16. PaulC

    PaulC Semi-Pro

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    Thanks for the info.

    But per the quote from above here:

    Men are at a definite disadvantage regarding available tennis scholarships. This is because there are only 4.5 scholarships for men, as compared to 8 for women, allocated for respective NCAA Division I teams. Men are, in fact, at a disadvantage in three non-revenue sports (tennis, gymnastic, and volleyball).

    Maybe if there is no scholarship limit, AND ALL schools can afford 8-10 scholarship on mens side. The problem can be alleviated a little, if not solved altogether.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2012
  17. PaulC

    PaulC Semi-Pro

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    Quite ironically... 1/4 Irish. Both my parents are mutts. :)
     
  18. PaulC

    PaulC Semi-Pro

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    I guess we need to ask the question: what exactly is the MISSION of our public education systems (alright, plus private US schools) here?

    Is it just to run spectacular sports teams to provide high quality sports events (like floridadude keep worrying it'll turn into unwatchable stuffs), or to **develop** OUR kids?

    This definition of MISSION STATEMENT will then determine the priorization of resources.

    But then, it's up to the decision makers, not us.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2012
  19. PaulC

    PaulC Semi-Pro

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    Quite the contrary, he's no bench warmer, he played in all 3 NCAA championship AND won crucial points:
    http://www.nma-jwhn.com/hamlinplantation/amenity.asp?id=3

    And thanks for the info.

    But per the quote from above here:

    Men are at a definite disadvantage regarding available tennis scholarships. This is because there are only 4.5 scholarships for men, as compared to 8 for women, allocated for respective NCAA Division I teams. Men are, in fact, at a disadvantage in three non-revenue sports (tennis, gymnastic, and volleyball).

    Maybe if there is no scholarship limit, AND ALL schools can afford 8-10 scholarship on mens side. The problem can be alleviated a little, if not solved altogether.
     
  20. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

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    I'm not naive enough to still believe that athletics and education are the same thing at US schools anymore. They both pretty much use each other for personal gain.

    The education side thrives by having higher demand for enrollment at schools with better overall athletics. Look at any school that has had an NCAA basketball championship and they always have a significant spike in undergrad applications. Athletics is the #1 marketing tool of a University. There no comparison to the power of athletics on enrollment.

    Athletics want the school to be strong acedemically so that they have another recruiting edge. If they represent a school with a diverse offerings of academic pursuits, they are more able to get athletes who pursue a variety of academic interests. To be top ranked in significant academic areas only boosts their edge.

    It is really basic "arms race economics." Google it.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2012
  21. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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    Golf has the same scholarship issues as tennis. 4.5 for men 8 for women.

    As for your solution I don't believe it will work. Women already get 8 full and there's still the "problem" with internationals taking roster spots.

    How about this novel idea? First get the USTA to get more H.S. kids in the game? Then get as good as you can as a junior tennis player, then look to play college tennis at the school where the player, academics and tennis team are the best fit with no prejudice to one University? Going to college as a student athlete with a commitment to academics and enthusiasm for the game, at the school where the player and school both mutuall benefits. Hmmm, seems this is what many internationals are doing.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2012
  22. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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    Re: your USC walk-on. Many great players play without tennis scholarship money because their family can afford it and it's good for the team.

    BTW. There's only one player on the current UofM roster from Ireland.
     
  23. PaulC

    PaulC Semi-Pro

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    Hehehe... I happened to know a thing or 2 about this topic.

    I got say: Most of these stuffs are BEFORE the game theory, rational expectation, or theories of second best options etc etc.

    -- May I also say: they all give us pretty gloomy pictures if any party "snaps" in the nuclear arm race scenarios, and it usually does not lead to any "non-zero-sum-game" or optimal solutions anyway.

    Alright, back to the topic, I guess I need to clarify: My main questions are always as follow:

    1. Given the limited resources, AND if schools here are supposed to develop OUR kids (even if it just means develop them in tennis, forget academics for the moment), who should have the priority in resources allocation?

    2. Should our 18 year old kids at least got equal level of play field, versus have to compete with many foreign kids who may already have played 2-3 years in pro tours as somebody mentioned and many of us observed?

    (seriously, even the 18 year old foreign kids may have played in pro tour a year or 2 nowadays)

    I believe with some careful and moderate restrictions implemented, we can address BOTH of above PLUS ensuring a high level of play brought in by international players.

    It's NEVER an "either this or that" issue.
     
  24. PaulC

    PaulC Semi-Pro

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    Yeah. they "take one for the team". But for Phil, I don't believe it's the case.


    Are we looking at a different roster?
    http://www.gotigersgo.com/sports/m-tennis/mtt/mem-m-tennis-mtt.html
     
  25. PaulC

    PaulC Semi-Pro

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    The question becomes:

    what level is supposed to be high enough for an top NCAA div 1 school tennis player?

    10 years ago, it's roughly 5.5 NTRP. Now it's almost like 6.5+ in many top schools line-ups.

    -- It's due to:

    1. The tour experience of the international players

    2. Their lack of college sports venues in their home country as THEIR outlet if they flop in the pro tour, so they flood to US.

    3. The lack of incensive for our top kids to NOT skip college and go to pro tours directly.

    I don't think it's fair to put the blame on our own kids for the lack of efforts, if the system don't provide them level playing fields.

    BTW, clarify again, I have NO problem at all with the present of international players as long as it doesn't exceed 1/3 of the roster.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2012
  26. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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    Now you acknowledge the fact. This is the problem I'm starting to have with this topic. Statements like yours about "Phil" not being on scholarship but he's a starter get made as if it the rule. In reality, starters in D1 tennis not on any tennis scholarship is the exception.

    Your clearly unsure about "Phil".

    One of the Irish players is a redshirt. The roster does not state that.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2012
  27. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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    How come the NCAA D1 singles winner is not a lock to be a viable touring pro as they used to be 25 years ago? And if the singles winner was an underclassman they would have been a stone-cold lock to make in the pros. That's because the game is more international. I propose limiting the amount of international players in the pro game so there will be more American pros like back in the 70's.
     
  28. PaulC

    PaulC Semi-Pro

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    So I guess you know Phil very well? (I honestly don't myself)

    But I do know for FACT He was NEVER a starter. He's been a reserve for all three seasons until injuries of the foreign kids or others in ALL three seasons, THEN he got to play late in the seasons.

    And I do know for FACT he had to moonlight all sorts of stuffs for lunch money back then.

    I believe redshirts still count against scholarships as long as the school committed to pay for it, so it makes no difference to me.
     
  29. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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    You said, "But for Phil, I don't believe it's the case". You don't know him, but you know for a FACT..........sounds to me like the story is just that.

    As for Redshirts, again it helps for you to know the rules and circumstances before like with "Phil" you speculate.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2012
  30. PaulC

    PaulC Semi-Pro

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    Clap Clap Clap for your humor dude! :)

    Then again, this becomes an "egg first or chicken first" debate.

    I prefer to go back to my earlier post: What exactly is the MISSION STATEMENT of our schools, particularly the public school system?

    Who are the colleges supposed to serve?

    If developing our own kid is not a priority, then we can rest our case.

    A side note: If all the European or other countries colleges start offering tennis scholarships to everybody in the world to compete, I have no problem with whatsover happen here in the U.S.

    I just don't think we should be the lone jack-ass who feed kids all over the world while our own kids are struggling to get just a slice.
     
  31. PaulC

    PaulC Semi-Pro

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    I meant I don't know him THAT well, I was his moonlight-coaching tennis student in my freshmen year (his final year), that's how I learned of his story, happy? Mr. nitpicker.

    Feel free to contact Coach Whitesell for confirmation of any of my "Speculations".
     
  32. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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    OK. Colleges are to educate kids in a well rounded way, academically, socially culturally and physically....blah, blah, blah.

    Why should private schools have to do what the "dumb the college tennis game down" crowd tells them to?

    If European colleges don't offer U.S. athletic scholarships, just shutter the NCAA.

    Our kids are getting their slice and for those few who want to play tennis at select BCS type tennis schools who are not good enough, there are tennis scholarships and programs looking for you.
    http://assets.usta.com/assets/1/15/USTA_Intl_SA_FAQ_FINAL_CLEAN.pdf
    And this does not include DII, NAIA and NJCAA, But I guess those don't count when you're a 2, 3 or 4 star looking to play at top 25 D1 program.
     
  33. PaulC

    PaulC Semi-Pro

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    My point of the MISSION Statement is: Lets say all state colleges just teach tennis, and nothing else, WHO do they have a PRIORITY to develop first?

    Sorry, I don't believe any AD or president can say U.S. residents are not, per their college charters.

    I can't help to quote from the above link itself once again:

    "Men are at a definite disadvantage regarding available tennis scholarships. This is because there are only 4.5 scholarships for men, as compared to 8 for women, allocated for respective NCAA Division I teams. Men are, in fact, at a disadvantage in three non-revenue sports (tennis, gymnastic, and volleyball)."

    -- especially Div I men side, per the above.
     
  34. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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    From the same paragraph you get your quote I'll additionally quote from the attached. http://assets.usta.com/assets/1/15/USTA_Intl_SA_FAQ_FINAL_CLEAN.pdf
    The overwhelming number of the Top 300 boys and girls (approximately 85% of the boys and 87% of the girls) are receiving college tennis scholarships.
    Boys:
    • Of the top 300 Boys 18s in the final 2007 year-end rankings eligible to attend college, over 85% received tennis scholarships
    Girls:
    • Of the top 300 Girls 18s ranked in the 2007 year-end rankings, 245 were
    eligible to attend college (the other 55 were younger than high school seniors)
    • 213 of the 245 (87%) received college scholarships

    A little context never hurt anyone.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2012
  35. Alohajrtennis

    Alohajrtennis Semi-Pro

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    What have you got against the next 100, 300-400 ? Or the hundred after that ? Whats so magic about 300 ? There are apx 3000 Div 1 Football scholarships awarded annually.
     
  36. PaulC

    PaulC Semi-Pro

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    Certainly. I hear ya.

    However, we again, are talking about orange and apple here.

    1. The total or simply Div 2 or 3 scholarships alone, is not the same "quantity demanded" commodity as the div 1 ones, in the tight supply demand situation for div 1.

    2. Scholarships in div 2 or 3 schools, in some coaches opinion, basically kill some kids development to higher level plays - which some believe contribute to the overall smaller amount of outstanding US college player coming out of college ranks.

    (I believe it was Patrick Mac or Bret Gilbert rambling on ESPN sometime ago on this topic.)

    3. A lot of coaches ended up too busy recruiting, but spend little time player developing.

    Wait... do our college coaches even do player development anymore?

    Ended up we turned all US college coaches into great recruiters but poorer player developers because they don't have to, unlike their Europeans counterparts.

    Then again, how many European player in US college ended up in ATP top 200?

    Not many, because not many of them got developed into higher level after they graduate from US colleges.
     
  37. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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    Got nothing against them. As a matter of fact I contend that they are also getting tennis scholarships if they want them. I get what you are saying about football and I agree. Tennis should have 100 players per roster and 85 on scholarship at each D1 school.

    Uhhh, what's your point with the football comparison?
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2012
  38. Alohajrtennis

    Alohajrtennis Semi-Pro

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    This is a red herring. Limiting internationals to 25% would not dumb down the game. The best players, the ones who are really contributing to making college tennis better, would still not have a problem making a rosters. It would make the Top D1 teams compete harder for the American talent. The other 15-%25% are there becuase they have some sort of connection to a coach or a coach or just prefers to recruit internationally.
     
  39. Alohajrtennis

    Alohajrtennis Semi-Pro

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    There are no DIV III scholarships....
     
  40. Alohajrtennis

    Alohajrtennis Semi-Pro

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    Women's tennis scholarships generally exist in the quantities that they do to compensate for this. Arbitrarily cutting them off at "300" defeats this purpose. I am of course not saying give out 2500, but that was just DIV 1. Add Div 2 , and tennis scholarships are still less than 5% of football scholarships.

    Again, this discussion is not limited to the top 40 men's programs.
     
  41. beernutz

    beernutz Hall of Fame

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    The OP's premise is wrong from the get-go ("Can't help to notice almost the entire team is made up of Irish or Brits.")
    [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]De Zutter, Cedric[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]6-2[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]SO[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Eeklo, Belgium (College OLV ten Doorn)[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Glavin, Darragh[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]6-2[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]FR[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Newbridge Town, Ireland (Newbridge College)[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Glennon, Connor[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]6-4[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]FR[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Loughborough, England (Loughborough College)[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Griffin, K.C.[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]5-10[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]RS JR[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Millington, Tenn. (Bartlett HS)[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Grimal, Johnny[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]6-1[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]SO[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Barcelona, Spain (I.E.S. Lluis Companys)[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Henry, David[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]6-0[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]SR[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Signal Mountain, Tenn. (McCallie HS)[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Nasemann, Leon[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]6-3[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]RS SR[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Wuppertahl, Germany (Deutsche Schule Malaga)[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]O'Hare, David[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]6-5[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]SO[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Dublin, Ireland (Colaiste Eoin)[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]O'Leary, David[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]5-10[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]FR[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Coventry, England (Loughborough College)[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Salisbury, Joe[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]6-3[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]SO[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]London, England (Surrey State)[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Shidler, Daniel[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]6-0[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]SR[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]Southaven, Miss. (LeTourneau University)

    [/FONT]11 players on the roster:
    3 from England
    3 from US (2 from TN and 1 from MS)
    2 from Ireland
    1 from Spain
    1 from Germany
    1 from Belgium

    But don't let the facts stand in the way of a good Internet argument.
     
  42. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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    It's just a study showing how 85% of the top 300 H.S. tennis players in the nation got tennis scholarships and for those who did not explains those circumstances. Do I have to explain the entire survey for you or can you read and comprehend it for yourself?

    It's the only study I've seen that actually documents what is happening in the tennis scholarship marketplace. Despite the fear mongering this shows American kids are getting tennis scholarships despite the international xenophobia.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2012
  43. PaulC

    PaulC Semi-Pro

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    I was just watching it on TV, looking at their 4-5 starters on that particular game. I wasn't expect a random post would turn into a heated debate, so have not check their info at that time.

    But the main point: like your above listing indicates, is the high percentage of int. players in college teams all over the country.

    An interesting topic regardless of which angle you're looking at it.

    I myself was simply looking at it from the priority of the state resources allocation standpoint - for locals first or not? - when this thread first started.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2012
  44. Alohajrtennis

    Alohajrtennis Semi-Pro

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    I'm working on my reading. I'm almost up to 9th grade reading level, I'm so proud.

    My point is that is data, but not information. Numbers without context. I could say 100% of the top 10 got scholarships. Your saying 300's a big number, it sounds like a lot, be happy with it, you whiners
     
  45. Misterbill

    Misterbill Semi-Pro

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    So the issue is out-of-staters, not necessarily foreigners
     
  46. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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    UT and Vandy often gets the area 5 star and Blue Chips. Then schools like Memphis, Austin Peay, TN Tech, E. Tenn, UT Chatt, UT Martin, Belmont and Lipscomb all also compete against fellow DI foes Arkansas, Kentucky, Alabama, LSU, Georgia and so on who often sign multiple 5 star and Blue Chips between them. There are only 25 Blue Chips, 75 5 stars and 200 4 stars annually. To be in the top 64 (qualify for the NCAA) or win your conference (qualify for the NCAA) there's only so much to go around. You have many 4 stars going to DIII, DII and NAIA shrinking the pool of players available.

    There are over 1,100 women’s programs with 320 NCAA DI, 212 NCAA DII, 361 NCAA DIII, 110 NAIA and 141 NJCAA programs respectively.

    There are fewer men’s tennis programs with 950 nationwide. That breaks down to 263 NCAA DI, 161 NCAA DII, 314 NCAA DIII, 92 NAIA and 120 NJCAA tennis programs.

    But hey, if you can't get top American talent to bad. According the the "dumb down the game" crowd you either can't recruit, can't develop players, it does not matter because tennis is not required to win, or someone needs to replace you. Take your pick.
     
  47. PaulC

    PaulC Semi-Pro

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    Hello there, glad you brought this up. It's still just foreigners.

    One state college administrator kindly pointed out:

    There was a time state colleges in this country admit only students in-state. Only AFTER more and more agreements are signed between them that enabled reciprocal out-of-state student admissisons between state colleges.

    So, from a legialative point of view, admitting out-of-state students WITHIN the U.S., is merely a fullfillment of their earlier mutual agreements.

    Later on, it became a general practice regardless.

    I don't believe we have this sort of thing between international colleges and our state colleges though.
     
  48. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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    Maybe that's why he did not pick on Rice. You know, they are private and don't take federal and or state dollars (yea right) so they can do what they want.
     
  49. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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    Please change your name to "Speculator Guy". At least then you can be transparent with your guessing.
     
  50. PaulC

    PaulC Semi-Pro

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    If he can quote his source for quoting, I will have indicated his name already. But a lot of times, people just share with you their recollections - which I believe is creditable in this case, given he has over 50 years of experience in the state college system, and as my one-time professor.

    Call me whatever you want, this is just to protect him from unnecessary harrassments - which is a forum convention I believe.

    As for your earlier doubt about the Phil story, per my earlier post:

    I meant I don't know him THAT well, I was his moonlight-coaching tennis student in my freshmen year (his final year), that's how I learned of his story, happy? Mr. nitpicker.

    Feel free to contact Coach Whitesell for confirmation of any of my "Speculations".
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2012

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