U.S. Open Stacked draw

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by barry, Aug 30, 2004.

  1. barry

    barry Hall of Fame

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    I see Roddick has yet another easy draw which should put him the Semi's. All the good players are in the Federer half. All the clay courters and injured players are in Roddick's side of the draw. Be nice if he lost 1st round, but to a 1400 ranked player, surely he can win that one.

    Why not seed 128 players according to ranking, and skip all these setup matches.
     
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  2. andirez

    andirez Rookie

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    What I really don't get is that Serena is seeded 3th while she currently is ranked 11th...
     
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  3. gully

    gully Semi-Pro

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    Is this post a troll?

    The world no. 2 gets an easy first-round match, then possibly Nadal and Safin (Barry -- have you heard of these guys?), to get to the 16s. Roddick would also face Hewitt in the quarters if the draw holds true to seeding -- hardly an "easy" match for anyone today.

    Does Barry claim that this is "another" easy draw like last year, when Roddcik drew an in-form Henman in the first round?

    Sorry -- hate to be churlish -- but this is really one of the stupidest posts I've seen here.
     
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  4. barry

    barry Hall of Fame

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    Gully

    Look on the other side, ever heard of a guy called Costa? First round for Federer.

    Has Nadal ever won a hard court tournament? Or ever made it to a hard court quarterfinal match? He is a clay court specialist. Face it the U.S. Open is stacked for Roddick to win, it is a joke. Only reason he won last year was they made the other players play 3 days in a row, while Roddick rested. Until the grand slam events use rankings based on 128 draw, it is a joke. Look at Roddicks record this year, he only one 1 tournament facing a top 10 player. To much hype for me, but guess you are a believer. Like I said earlier, hope Roddick loses early so we can see some quality tennis.

    Also agree Serena does not deserve to be seated 3rd, Lindsay is a much better player. Yet another stacking on the women's side.
     
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  5. baseliner

    baseliner Professional

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    Yep. Marat Safin and Leyton Hewitt in his half sure seems a stacked draw to me. Now please complain about how many of his and Agassi's matches are at night. The advantages to the U.S. players at the U.S. Open never cease! :shock:
     
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  6. johnkidd

    johnkidd Semi-Pro

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    Didn't Nadal beat Federer in Miami? I think that's hardcourt.
     
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  7. RickN

    RickN Rookie

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    Didn't Federer just recover from illness before Miami?
     
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  8. James Brown

    James Brown Semi-Pro

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    actually RICKn, he was still sick during the match :>
     
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  9. mlee2

    mlee2 Rookie

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    Yet again with another anti-Roddick post from Barry.

    I suppose Roddick facing former US Open champs Safin and Hewitt are 'stacked' draws.

    Dude if you're gonna post this kind of drivel, at least sound half-intelligent and produce at least ONE good point in your argument.
     
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  10. Vlad

    Vlad Professional

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    I don't believe in stacked draws but I do believe that USTA would do anything in their power to pull Roddick and Agassi through, like not scheduling them if it is 100 degrees or forecasted rain. Stuff like that always happenend at US Open but it may not be fair to other players, it is understandable that they want US player to win the whole thing..
     
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  11. AllCourt

    AllCourt Rookie

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    OOOOOOOOOO yea.....this sure seem stacked for Roddick...(note my sarcasm).....before James B pulled out Roddick had a possible him(who is a great hard court player, mind you) or a Rafael Nadal, who challenged Lleyton Hewitt in one of the past Master Series Tournaments...Oh yea, Safin and Hewitt possible matches....Um, they seem to be one of the best hard court players around, right? O wait, I forgot, they won the US Open before, haven't they? Oooo yup. Whatever you guys say, I belive that this tournament has NO challenge at all for Roddick, I mean, how bad can a few past champions who are playing well right now, a rising star who can play on hard, and other contendors be?
     
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  12. barry

    barry Hall of Fame

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    mlee2

    Maybe you should look at his win record before posting. Obvious you believe the hype.

    How many top 10 players has Roddick beat this year?

    http://sports.yahoo.com/ten/players/46

    The draw is stacked in Roddicks favor. Didn't Nadal have a broken foot earlier this year? Also Ferrero is in Roddicks side and he has been out for 4 months.

    I am surprised Hewitt and Safin are in his side, guess U.S. Open appointment committee screwed up. But with all the easy matches against unknown players he will be rested up.
     
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  13. aceindahole2K5

    aceindahole2K5 Rookie

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    barry, maybe you should watch the random live public drawing of the draw buddy.......
     
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  14. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

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    one thing they do tho is set up the court speed as they like and do you think the court speed favours roddick and fish? i do...not sure about agassi tho...i think he would rather have slower so he can run his opposition into the ground. or alternativey they set up the courts faster to try and make the game more interesting than crosscourt baseline drills and open court baseline drills and see who pulls the trigger on the forehand first...yawn. it seems to be working....the ball is flying and the tennis seems more interesting and exciting. a few years ago they slowed the courts down to the speed it has been until this year because the points were too short when the courts were faster. comments? ed
     
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  15. The Franchise

    The Franchise Rookie

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    Man, f*ck this...I can't believe the draws are so stacked. Wouldn't it be in the States' best interest to put some easy opponents on Roddick's side. Instead, they have Federer playing Costa or some chump of the same weak *** caliber. I just don't get this. If it were me, I'd put some easy folks on Roddick's side instead of Safin or Hewitt, so we can get the American machine going, but noooooo, these dumb schmucks gotta give Roddick some past champions to deal with. Not only that, he could get last year's finalist in Ferrero. This is bullsh*t. What is this? The damn Swiss Open? The draw pretty much guarantees Federer will at least get to the Semi's. I don't know who organizes all this, but whoever it is needs to stop with stacking the draws like this. Once again, this is bullsh*t.
     
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  16. Chadwixx

    Chadwixx Banned

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    safin has only won 4 matches since the french open, juan carlos ferrero has only won 3. those are the top two players in his semi section of the draw.

    tennis is all about match ups, look at who hewitt has on his way. ferreira, then arazi, then lopez, then gustavo or gonzales. if he makes it that far he will have to face nalbandian the day before he plays roddick. if u have any knowledge of tennis u know that match will go 3+ hours.

    on top of that roddick will play all night matches while they schedule hewitt nalbandian for a 2:30 start.
     
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  17. mlee2

    mlee2 Rookie

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    Ok Barry, I'll bite. Using the information you provided: Here's his win-loss record for the year:

    1st Federer, R. 887 0-1

    2nd Roddick, A. 597 n/a

    3rd Coria, G. 480 1-0

    4th Hewitt, L. 471 1-0

    5th Moya, C. 469 1-0

    6th Gaudio, G. 376 n/a

    7th Henman, T. 342 0-1

    8th Safin, M. 316 1-1

    9th Agassi, A. 298 0-1

    10th Grosjean, S. 267 1-0

    So Agassi, Henman, and Federer clearly "dominate" Roddick according to your 'argument.' Results speak for themselves and when it comes down to rankings, Roddick is simply more consistent (this year) than Henman and Agassi. The only one who actually owns Roddick in every category is Federer but that doesn't really mean much since that statement basically goes for the whole ATP tour. Besides, this discussion is about Roddick, not Fed.

    And yes Barry, I suppose if I believe Andy Roddick is the second best player in the world, I am fooled by the 'hype.'
     
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  18. PJVA

    PJVA Rookie

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    As I see it, Roddick does have an easier draw than Federer mainly because of the great difference in the level of their 1st round opponents and then secondly because Federer would like face Agassi in his QF, while Roddick would likely face Ferrero or someone lower ranked in his QF.

    Agassi seems to have his game back on track and he is one of the top guys on hard court. He just beat both Roddick and Hewitt on hard court in Cincy. Agassi has always been a tough opponent for Federer and Roddick both.

    Ferrero is rather whimpy on hard court....no offense to him. But he had that chicken pox illness yet besides. He is just not the fighter that Agassi would be.

    Yes, it's true that Roddick may have to face Hewitt in his semi final.....but that is not as tough as it would be for Roddick if he were facing Agassi in the QF. At least Roddick is pretty much guaranteed to make it to the semi.

    Federer on the other hand would be facing a tough QF and a tough SF to get to the final.
     
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  19. Nadal2

    Nadal2 Rookie

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    I think it's in the states best interest to put on a tournament that is as fair as possible to all players. Meaning they have no intent to make the draw any easier for any of the players. I don't believe that they stack draws in any ATP-sponsored events,s o you don't need to worry. Again, if you had actually read the post, you would have seen that Barry was saying the draw is stacked in Roddick's favor, which seems much more likely than in Federer's favor. Last year Roddick's ride was a little easier than it is this year, so what? The draw is not stacked. In Federer's draw, there are as many titles as there are in the rest of Roddick's draw, besides Roddick and Federer. I don't think that if the draw was stacked, they would put Agassi and Federer in the same quarter.
    I do believe that the USTA does unfairly make the schedule, such as last year, and I wish they didn't, but I don't think that it has drastic effects on who the possible title contenders are as it did last year.
     
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  20. PJVA

    PJVA Rookie

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    Chadwixx, you make a good point here. It is about match ups and how many tough match ups each player has in his path. Roddick fans here may say that just becuase Roddick will likely play Hewitt in the semis that means he will have a tough draw. But Federer will likely face more than just one tough opponent to get to the final.

    Just examine who is in each quarter. All of the other top players in Roddick's quarter have been falling in the rankings and have been struggling.....Ferrero, Schuetler, and Safin.
     
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  21. Tennis Guy

    Tennis Guy Semi-Pro

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    He was being sarcastic... I hope.
     
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  22. Chadwixx

    Chadwixx Banned

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    roddick has an easy path to the semi's. in a grand slam u would expect the winner to play more than 2 big matches.

    costa is a very good player, no body wants to play him cause he is such a competitor. he has won as many grand slams as roddick (and probably at least 20 more tourneys) yet he gets very little respect.

    all these ppl who are saying safin and juan carlos are continders arent keeping up with whats going on oncourt. hewitt nalbandian are clearly the top two, but with both their grueling baseline styles i would think the winner would be pretty spent.

    the main reason federer has beat roddick everytime (except when fed double faulted 12 times in the third and still lost in a tb) is because he has a fast style. a bad draw for a baseliner is much harder, but fed can finish fast.
     
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  23. PJVA

    PJVA Rookie

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    roddick has an easy path to the semi's. in a grand slam u would expect the winner to play more than 2 big matches.

    costa is a very good player, no body wants to play him cause he is such a competitor. he has won as many grand slams as roddick (and probably at least 20 more tourneys) yet he gets very little respect.

    all these ppl who are saying safin and juan carlos are continders arent keeping up with whats going on oncourt. hewitt nalbandian are clearly the top two, but with both their grueling baseline styles i would think the winner would be pretty spent.

    the main reason federer has beat roddick everytime (except when fed double faulted 12 times in the third and still lost in a tb) is because he has a fast style. a bad draw for a baseliner is much harder, but fed can finish fast.[/quote]

    Right to say that Safin and Ferrero are tough contenders is not keeping up with the times. Ferrero folds easily and has been loosing early since his illness. Ferrero is just not a fighter. Safin has been out of sorts since he lost the AO final. Schuetler has also been dropping in the rankings.

    I don't say that the organizers fix the draw but Roddick seems to have great luck in getting the best draws all the time. Watch even in the Master's Cup Roddick will get a bunch of clay courters and Federer will have Agassi, Hewitt and Heman.
     
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  24. The Franchise

    The Franchise Rookie

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    Yes, I was being sarcastic. I was being stupid, just because the whining about who has an easier draw and such is just plain dumb. Stop whining and just watch the f*ckin' game people. May the best person win.
     
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  25. PJVA

    PJVA Rookie

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    I think we can whine and watch at the same time :roll:

    I'd just like to see Roddick have to play a tough quarter final for once. Has he ever had a tough QF in a major?
     
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  26. Free_Martha

    Free_Martha Guest

    The hilarious conspiracy theories from the paranoids never end.
     
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  27. Chanchai

    Chanchai Semi-Pro

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    While El Aynaoui isn't top 10... I thought he provided a tough Quarterfinal for Roddick at the Australian Open in 2003. If the draw held, Roddick would have faced Hewitt instead of El Aynaoui at that tournament. And then there was Hewitt at the US Open in 2001. And Sampras in the US Open in 2002. Oh yeah... there was Marat Safin at the Australian Open this year also...

    Guess you missed those tough QF matches for Roddick at the slams. So aside from the examples in the above and facing Schaulken at last year's US Open and this year's Wimbledon, I don't think Roddick made the quarters (don't think he made the QFs for Roland Garros and 2003 was the first time he stepped up at Wimbledon I think).

    I'll try to confirm these on the ATP site sooner or later, but at the moment, the ATP site is fine but player profiles are giving me problems at the moment.

    Were you being sarcastic?

    As for getting Schaulken in the QFs of a major at last year's US Open and this year's Wimbledon... I don't know much about Sjeng except that it seems like he makes his living qualifying for grand slams and going into week 2--I generally never hear about the guy outside of the slams. It's not like he's seeded to definitely face Roddick in the Quarters, just works out that way.

    -Chanchai
     
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  28. Chanchai

    Chanchai Semi-Pro

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    The profiles on ATPtennis.com are working again for me, so I checked. They need to put in the summer season entries for this year...

    I missed Roddick's match against Bjorkman in the QF of Wimbledon 2003. Though Roddick rolled through him, I wouldn't say that the guy is weak on grass. He seems like a grass-only version of Schaulken though... But also a doubles player.

    -Chanchai
     
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  29. tennisboy87

    tennisboy87 Guest

    Roddick has had some tough QF's in his career.

    2001 US Open QF- lost to Hewitt in 5
    2002 US Open- lost to Samras in 3
    2004 Aus Open- lost to Safin in 5

    These are just a few examples.
     
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  30. Chadwixx

    Chadwixx Banned

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    has he won one?
     
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  31. gully

    gully Semi-Pro

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    My guess'd be yeah, seeing as how he's made the semis of slams four times and won one slam. The math ain't too tough on that one.
     
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  32. AndyC

    AndyC Semi-Pro

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    I don't think there's any stacking of the draw.. however ther scheduling can sometimes favor American players.. moreso than in any other GS event and this is exacerbated by the (IMO) crazy so-called super saturday scheduling.
     
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  33. Chanchai

    Chanchai Semi-Pro

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    Well, they do a random drawing process first, so non-seeds should be determined randomly. However, there is an alotted amount of draw manipulation allowed for tournament organizers. I don't know how much this is used on the men's draw because I hardly hear about it.

    However, though I have nothing against Serena, I do think that making her the #3 seed is a mistake. I'm not saying they shouldn't up her seeding (though I'm sure MANY people here would believe that), but #3 is the wrong seeding for her--clearly wrong imo.

    Back to the men's draw, does anyone know what manipulations have occurred? If they really wanted to manipulate the draw with extra favor to American players, I would imagine they would get Agassi the heck out of Federer's quarter.

    Roddick is generally very lucky with his draws lately... but the top seeds generally should have nicer draws. However, Roddick has also benefitted from upsets that occur in his quarter (technically, every player does, but it happens a lot on the Roddick quarter). But Federer did get a very tough draw at this US Open so there goes idealism out of the window.

    But... Agassi has had some SWEET draws in the past.

    -Chanchai
     
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  34. mlee2

    mlee2 Rookie

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    I think you DO have a bias against Serena, although it is sutble. Why aren't you calling out the fact that Henin hasn't been playing many matches this year either...YET she's the No. 1 seed. At least Serena has shown up to one more grandslam than her and making it to the finals at Wimbledon.

    It's called protected rankings. If Henin gets the benefits, there shouldn't be any reason to deny Serena.
     
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  35. Chanchai

    Chanchai Semi-Pro

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    Well... honestly, I would have seeded her 5th. I think she's entitled to some ranking protection. She's been back on tour for almost 6 months now. And I thought it was fine she got her ranking protected as far as Roland Garros and Wimbledon were concerned.

    I haven't done my homework on this, but as far as I understand it, she's still covered in the ranking protection because her schedule has been cut down a lot. Maybe I misunderstood somewhere, but I think if she had played all of the tournaments she intended to, she would no longer be covered by the protected ranking.

    But just like Serena was entitled to top seed in her first slam back, I understand Henin-Hardenne getting that same treatment as well.

    My bias is that I don't think Serena is the 3rd seed right now. I'd argue she's 5th or 6th. Maybe even 4th. Ultimately, my bias is that Davenport was pushed back as a result. But I guess in the end, at least it didn't ruin many peoples' chances. All that aside, I hope Serena makes a good showing at the open. Could help pump up 2005 for the WTA Tour.

    -Chanchai
     
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  36. Chadwixx

    Chadwixx Banned

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    we were talking about tough quarterfinal matches
     
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  37. Chadwixx

    Chadwixx Banned

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    they will promote the hell out of agassi in the 2nd week. his and federer's match will bring in high ratings, then they hope roddicks popularity with the school girls will bring them high ratings on sat, sun. its not that complex, they just market diffrerent players at different times in the tourney. the bottom line is ratings, if u think the usta cares about anything other than money, ur crazy.
     
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  38. gully

    gully Semi-Pro

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    Yes, and it would require having won exactly one QF for each SF appearance, a point too subtle, apparently, for board discussion.

    But the historic El Anouyi-Roddick Australian QF would qualify -- and be hard to overlook -- I'd think.

    The other QF victories -- Schalken, Bjorkman, Ancic -- were easy ones for him, and his two US Open QF losses were the rout by Sampras and the Hewitt nailbiter (7-5 in the fifth).

    The Safin match at Melbourne this year was the only other close quaterfinal Roddick lost. Does it matter? No -- but you asked.
     
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  39. PJVA

    PJVA Rookie

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    As for any tough QF that Roddick had I don't think going back as far as 2001 and 2002 matters because back then the promoters were still more interested in Sampras or Agassi.

    That 2004 AO loss to Safin was a semi final wasn't it? My impression is that Roddick always gets an easy ride to the semis and sometimes all the way to the final.

    This time Roddick quarter is very lucky for him because the higher seeds (JCF, Safin, and Schuetler) have not been playing well. Safin and Schuetler lost first round which proves my point. JCF almost lost in the first round.

    Even the commentators were saying that in Roddick's quarter the only guy who can possibly give him trouble is Nadal in the 2nd round, but Nadal is coming back from injury.
     
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  40. PJVA

    PJVA Rookie

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    Here's what I think about Agassi......promoters favor Roddick and don't want Agassi getting in the way of Roddick making it to the final. Remember Agassi just beat Roddick in Cincy? Promoters probably think that Agassi has a chance to beat Federer and in that case they'd get their dream match of Agassi v. Roddick in the final. If Agassi can't beat Federer then they'd still at least get Roddick in the final.

    I don't know what kind of manipulations are possible. I am just glad that Hewitt is not in Federer's half. I was fully expecting Federer to draw Agassi and Hewitt like he so often does.
     
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  41. Chadwixx

    Chadwixx Banned

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    if they would seed the top 128 entrys this problem wouldnt happen (1 vs 128, 2 vs 127 and so on). #1 federer wouldnt have to play a former gs champ while #2 roddick draws a 1400 ranked opponent. if they did the draws they were supposed tobe done this conversation doesnt exists, because it was done fairly.
     
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  42. PJVA

    PJVA Rookie

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    I agree. I am not sure why they don't do the draws the way you describe. With their current system in round one while Federer is playing a former GS champ ..... some qualifiers are playing agaisnt each other. Why not split up the qualifiers among the top seeds at least?
     
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