Ufc 92

Discussion in 'Odds & Ends' started by Hot Sauce, Dec 24, 2008.

  1. Hot Sauce

    Hot Sauce Hall of Fame

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    Well guys, what do you think? I'm very excited for this card.

    Rashad Evans +110 v. Forrest Griffin -140
    Frank Mir +300 v. Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira -400
    Quinton Jackson +110 v. Wanderlei Silva -140
    Mike Massenzio +150 v. C.B. Dollaway -180
    Mostapha Al Turk +250 v. Cheick Kongo -330
    Dean Lister +220 v. Yushin Okami -300
    Mike Wessel +300 v. Antoni Hardonk -400
    Reese Andy +180 v. Matt Hamill -220
    Brad Blackburn +130 v. Ryo Chonan -160
    Dan Evensen +130 v. Pat Barry -160

    My Predictions:
    Griffin by unanimous decision
    Nogueira by unanimous decision (or possibly 4th round TKO)
    Wanderlei by 3rd round TKO
    Kongo by 2nd round TKO
    Okami by unanimous decision

    ***********************************SPOILERS IN THIS THREAD********************************
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2008
    #1
  2. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    Rashad will be the new champ.
     
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  3. Hot Sauce

    Hot Sauce Hall of Fame

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    You think so? It could definitely go either way. But I think that the only notable fighter that Rashaad has beaten is Chuck. He's a very solid fighter, though.
     
    #3
  4. Hot Sauce

    Hot Sauce Hall of Fame

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    Where are my MMA fans? I'm switching to Evans by 3rd round TKO.
     
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  5. stoffer

    stoffer Rookie

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    My picks...
    Evans TKO Rd 3
    Nog U. Dec
    Silva TKO Rd 2
     
    #5
  6. lolza

    lolza New User

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    Evans by tko rd 2

    Nog. by unanimous or submission

    Silva KO (knees) again
     
    #6
  7. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    Rashad by KO, Nogueira by submission, Rampage by brutal KO.
     
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  8. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Goodnite sweet axe murderer, left hooked to sleep, eh?
     
    #8
  9. stoffer

    stoffer Rookie

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    Well, you were certainly right about Rampage. Silva looked really tentative, while Rampage took control of the octagon.
     
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  10. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    Revenge is a strong motivator. I'm pretty sure Rampage wanted revenge badly.
     
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  11. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Last edited: Dec 27, 2008
    #11
  12. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    Don't blink because it'll be over quickly.
     
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  13. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Nog blinked,, eh?
     
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  14. stoffer

    stoffer Rookie

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    Wow, Mir looked very impressive. He totally dominated.
     
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  15. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    I guess Frank really improved his standup. Antonio is usually an awesome boxer, but he went in with the BJJ against BJJ mentality. This was the same way Serra beat GSP, by surprising him with good boxing. I still feel Antonio is the better boxer, but he went in with the wrong gameplan.
     
    #15
  16. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Evans rocks Forrest!!!!!!! KOs Griffin
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2008
    #16
  17. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    So I guess I was only wrong about Frankie.
     
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  18. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Mir/Lesnar whatcha think? Clobberin Time?
     
    #18
  19. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    I think Frankie's an intelligent fighter, but I think Brock is a genuine brawler and he would have won their first bout had he prepared himself better on sub defense. I believe Brock will be able to lie and pray on Frank and can either get a boring decision or pound him out if he improves his striking because despite that Randy KO, Brock really does suck at strikes. Either way, I believe Brock will win the rematch.
     
    #19
  20. Hot Sauce

    Hot Sauce Hall of Fame

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    Hey, not bad!
    And agreed.
     
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  21. Hot Sauce

    Hot Sauce Hall of Fame

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    But my thoughts on this card:
    I was absolutely effing SHOCKED by the outcome! Wandy getting KTFO in round 1, and Nog getting finished for the first time! Two of my favourite fighters got absolutely dominated.
     
    #21
  22. !Tym

    !Tym Hall of Fame

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    I think we just need to realize these days that we can't take too much of fighting to heart. Unlike other sports, MMA's the kind of sport where there are no second chances in a fight. If you get hit on the button AND you're body weights flinging forward at the same time, combine those two momentumental forces and a fight can literally be over in the blink of an eye at any time. Fighters have to wait so long to fight, and yet it can all come crashing down in literally seconds.

    There are no sure things in fighting anymore. GSP looks unbeatable right now, but if given enough fights (which compared to how often tennis players "fight"), you can bet he WILL get caught again Serra style. In fact, you could say the same for pretty much ALL elite fighters. When elite meets elite, there's always a decent chance that one of them could be going down.

    MMA is so unpredictable these days now that NOTHING surprises me anymore. "The year of the upsets"? To me, the only upset is that people think these so called upsets are such unbelievable upsets.

    I mean, Frank Mir vs. Nog? I mean yeah I know Nog is a legend, but it was just ridiculous to assume as so many were that Mir had no chance whatsoever. Mir's been known for years as one of the most talented guys out there, but also one of the laziest.

    I wasn't shocked at all by Mir winning quite frankly. In fact, my intuition was VERY strong that he WOULD win from the start. Why? Simple, because it's simply a matter of probability. Nog was VERY due to not "survive" for once after such a long and storied career, and Mir had to be going in there thinking I have nothing to lose and EVERYTHING to gain, this is my chance to put my "demons" that have haunted him since his near fatal accident behind him...he HAD to have been thinking leading up to the fight.

    CroCop biting dust with his OWN medicine against a BJJ fighter? Yeah, who saw that coming...and yet if you just look at it from a probability stand point, you'd have to say you know what? He was probably just due for something like that to happen. At some point, virtually everyone gets humiliated at their own game in pro sports. You play enough matches, it's gonna happen eventually.

    That's why Sampras said of his loss to Federer at Wimbledon that he could just feel it in his stomach that he was DUE for a close loss at Wimbledon, that it was inevitable. That sooner or later, the breaks wouldn't go his way, and that there is an element of luck and chance invovled in pro sport at the highest level that the average fan never takes into account. If even the great Pete Sampras gets this, and can "feel" this intuition then that should go double for a sport that's as NATURE-al like MMA. In MMA, there's just soooo many ways to lose..."like that" with the proverbial snap of the fingers, that when you consider how well everyone trains these days, it's no wonder that there's no sure thing anymore.

    Even Rampage calmly and cooly admits this when he's not playing his howling ACT. He said that he wasn't surprised he lost to Forrest. He said that going into every fight at this level, you know that it's almost 50/50's who's going to win. That everybody can beat everybody in this sport on any given night, and that at the end of the day it's basically just a business like anything else. These guys win or lose afterward are going to collect their paycheck and cash it.

    Secretly, I truthfully believe most of the top fighters feel this way. We only see the public "I'm going to humilate you, woo, woo!" side to them, but we fail to see that they're just hyping up the fight to make more bank. It's a part of their job description. I mean come on, the whole cliche'd pushing each other at the weigh-ins thing? I mean really now, be serious. These are grown azz men now with accountants and financial advisors and in many cases kids and wifes and families and sometimes even religious. Do you really think they're so cave man apeish in REAL life that they go around shoving everyone who doesn't agree with them?

    Ah well, about Wandy though. To be honest, I think he and Chuck especially need to realize that they're chins ARE starting to go south. Yeah, it still takes a perfectly landed blow to take them out (they haven't reached Ken Shamrock and the one-thousand piece ancient China yet)...but still the point is that they're not cautious enough. These are guys who rely on offense to win, and that they're chin will hold up or that they'll get through the defenses first.

    As they get older, and when you add all the wear and tear not just from their fights but rather the REAL culprit (the day-in, day-out cumlative effect of years...and years...and YEARS of hard sparring sessions behind closed doors); you need to accept this reality. One-day, it SHOULD hit you that you can't just take a punch like you used to.
     
    #22
  23. Hot Sauce

    Hot Sauce Hall of Fame

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    Wandy's patented wild left hooks, dropping both hands, didn't help either. That against Rampage's 52-Blocks style blocking.
     
    #23
  24. beamjayman

    beamjayman New User

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    Frank surprised me, I have come to expect nothing of him after his wreck but the way he took Nog out was just amazing. Rampage is going to murder Rashad as well.
     
    #24
  25. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    Rampage will not come close to beating Rashad. Sugar is just too difficult to hurt.
     
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  26. Hot Sauce

    Hot Sauce Hall of Fame

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    Someone asked me yesterday after the fights if I thought that Rampage would beat Rashad. I couldn't really answer it. All I can say is that I'm really impressed with Rashad and how he's proved that he is a TALENTED fighter. Rampage's fight was quick, so you can't really tell if he's changed or not.
     
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  27. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    The thing about mma is that anybody can be beaten at any time by any other fighter and that's the difference between mma and other sports. When mma was in its infancy, you had a few great fighters (Ken, Royce, Dan, Mark), but now every single fighter trains all around so those great grapplers can no longer dominate them on the ground. This is the reason Frank Shamrock did so well back in the late 90s because he was one of the first fighters to incorporate all around fighting skills instead of specializing in just 1 thing. Can Sugar beat Rampage? Absolutely. Can Rampage beat Sugar? Anything is possible in mma. I still doubt it, but mma is unpredictable.
     
    #27
  28. Hot Sauce

    Hot Sauce Hall of Fame

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    #28
  29. Kevin T

    Kevin T Professional

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    Great post! I had a feeling about Mir winning, as well. He's just too smart a fighter to let all that talent go to waste and Nog isn't getting any younger. Mir is just such an intelligent, well-rounded guy. He mentioned in his post-fight interview that he was terrified before the fight and felt he really didn't have a chance against Nog. That's the kind of honesty you usually don't get from an MMA fighter. Sugar is looking good. He has VERY fast hands (so much faster than Forrest)+great wrestling and that's a nice combination. I really hope Mir can get another submission on Lesnar 'cause the whole brute/ground and pound thing just doesn't do it for me anymore. Maybe they need to create a super heavyweight division? Patiently waiting for my man Lyoto Machida (another cerebral fighter) to get a title shot. Fans think he has a boring style but to me, he's the epitomy of martial arts...the first rule is don't get hit.
     
    #29
  30. SaunderS

    SaunderS Professional

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    Isnt Brock Lesnar in UFC? He used to be in WWE.
     
    #30
  31. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Remember Dan Severn and Ken Shamrock were in the UFC, then WWF. In the UFC, don't need to work nightly.
     
    #31
  32. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    They were actually out of the UFC at the time they were wrestling. I can't believe how downhill Kenny went. The only fighter who had a bigger fall was Tank Abbott.
     
    #32
  33. maverick66

    maverick66 Hall of Fame

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    the sport went to another level these guys didnt.

    mir winning not even an upset. the guy is on the same level as nog. nog can take a beating and was great in pride but mir was great in the ufc and found his work ethic.

    rashad beating forrest not a shocker. never thought forrest was that amazing. guy is as hard working as they come but his skill set isnt as good as rashad. i dont see a long term title run for anyone at 205 as it is just stacked.
     
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  34. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    I think I read on the UFC website somewhere that the most number of successful title defenses is 5. Nowhere near the impressive win streaks of some of our favorite tennis stars.
     
    #34
  35. stoffer

    stoffer Rookie

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    Not really a suprise considering top fighters only fight 2-4 times a year and top tennis players play 60+ matches.
     
    #35
  36. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Funny calling that wrestling when 25 yrs ago, saw Dan Severn actually wrestle for the USA at the World Cup. Interesting if Bruce Baumgartner could compete in the UFC 15 yrs ago. Any thoughts on the Arlovski-Fedor fight next month?
     
    #36
  37. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    I'm hoping Arlovski, but Fedor's damn tough. Maybe Andre can connect with a good punch.
     
    #37
  38. Hot Sauce

    Hot Sauce Hall of Fame

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    I'm hoping that Sambo loss won't phase Fedor. But he's said before that he's never taken the Combat Sambo competitions as seriously as MMA. And taking the time to shoot the movie took a lot of time away from training for the competitions. However, I think that Fedor has Arlovski beat in any position (including striking).
     
    #38
  39. beamjayman

    beamjayman New User

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    Rampage has an iron jaw and I don't think Rashad can hurt him wheras I think rampage can knock him out. Also, I don't think Rashad will be able to take him down and Rampage could possibly slam him albeit he hasn't done much of that in the UFC.
     
    #39
  40. 35ft6

    35ft6 Legend

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    I think anybody can beat anybody is really overstating it. That may apply to really athletic/explosive power punchers, they may be able to beat anybody on a given day, but there are really only 2 or 3 guys who really have a chance of beating the dominant fighters like Anderson Silva, GSP, BJ Penn, and Fedor. Right now, though, the UFC light heavyweight division is stacked. There are five guys in there who can be the legitimate champ at any given moment.

    Rampage versus Sugar will be very interesting. Sugar is looking like a natural fighter and there are very few of those kinds of guys out there, people who seem comfortable in every facet of the game and transitions seamlessly from one to the other. Most fighters, they start thinking and become mechanical once they're using skills outside of their base style, you can see them trying to remember what they were told in the gym, or pausing to hear what their trainers are barking at them from ringside. Rashad looks like a very complete fighter a la GSP, Fedor, and BJ Penn. Not sure if even Spider is one of these types of fighters, I get the feeling that somewhere between stand up and submissions, he does just enough to stay out of trouble.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2009
    #40
  41. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    When the referee only steps in to stop the fight after a fighter gets hurt, rocked, dazed, knocked down, anyone can lose with one punch. Just saw the Mike Brown/Urijah Faber replay and things change mighty fast, eh? Lucky a fighter cannot use elbows and knees on the ground.
     
    #41
  42. Hot Sauce

    Hot Sauce Hall of Fame

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    I always enjoy when you comment on MMA. :)
     
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  43. 35ft6

    35ft6 Legend

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    ^ Thanks, Hot Sauce. I come across way more knowledgeable MMA fans at other boards. It's too bad Sherdog is such a ridiculous flame fest. Still looking for a more serious, strictly MMA board.
    I feel like other fight orgs, especially the Japanese ones, are much better with stoppages than the UFC, or at least more consistent. The UFC lets marquee fighters in big money fights get beat on much longer than less popular fighters. As for elbows, I think I agree with the guys at Inside MMA on this one, they prefer the no elbows on the ground but allow knee rules used in Japan. Reason being elbows cause so many cuts, it causes way too many premature stoppages. Granted, it doesn't happen a lot, but I've seen it happen. A well placed elbow to the head is guaranteed to cause a cut. And if it's a glancing blow that doesn't rock the opponent as much, even better, even more likely to cause a cut.

    BTW, Urijah was being stupid when he got caught. Mike Brown looks like a bit of a monster for that weight class, but that was a very cocky Faber that got beat.

    With that said, though, at this point, I feel like the UFC is the ultimate proving ground. There are some great fighters in Japan right now, but I still reserve judgment on Aoki, Alvarez, Mousasi, Ovareem, Manhoef, Kawijiri, and Hansen until I see them taking on the top guys of the UFC. Would love to see Overeem, and to a lesser extent Barnett, fight Lesnar, or Frank Mir while we're at it. Aoki fight BJ Penn... Alvarez versus Shean Sherk? And bring Yamamoto Kid over while we're at it. It's long overdue.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2009
    #43
  44. Hot Sauce

    Hot Sauce Hall of Fame

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    Try MMALinker.com
    There is a lot of Fedor/Wandy love, but it's a good time there, plus they have a huge database of fight videos.
     
    #44
  45. Hot Sauce

    Hot Sauce Hall of Fame

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    I definitely agree with your thoughts on UFC stoppages. Just recently we saw Couture and Forrest receive late stoppages when they were getting pummeled. I'd like to see knees and kicks on the ground, but I'd like to see the elbows stay. I think that elbows are such a huge part of fighting and to take that away would not be a fair representation of a fight.

    I remember watching the Brown/Faber fight, and thinking to myself, "what the hell was that, Urijah?". Oh yeah, the spinning elbow, that always works. :shock:

    Aoki recently called out Penn, but I don't think it would be a close fight at all. Penn's striking is on another level than Aoki's, and his takedown defense and ground game aren't too bad either :p. Top that off with some sick flexibility, and the matchup doesn't seem to good for Aoki. But I love watching Aoki fight, since he uses Bravo's 10th Planet Jiu Jitsu. I'm a really big fan of the Rubber Guard, Twister, and all of Bravo's stuff.
     
    #45
  46. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Now if all these bouts are added to UFC 96 in C-bus in March, that'll be worth the drive. That and the Arnold Classic.
     
    #46
  47. jorel

    jorel Hall of Fame

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    wat about lyoto machida... isnt he undefeated????
     
    #47
  48. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Lyoto Machida and Thiago Silva are on the undercard of UFC 94, January 31st. GSP/Penn is the main event.
     
    #48
  49. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    Machida is currently the best fighter at 205 and he hasn't gotten a title shot yet. The only way Sugar would beat Machida is if he squeaked out a decision. Dana White and Joe Silva sure suck at picking number 1 contenders.
     
    #49
  50. Hot Sauce

    Hot Sauce Hall of Fame

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    These guys are NOT on the undercard, thats for sure.
     
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