Um, guys... Federer is IMPROVING

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by aceX, Mar 21, 2012.

  1. aceX

    aceX Hall of Fame

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    I was really surprised that Fed was able to beat Nadal in that crazy wind considering he continues to play so aggressively. He's had recent success indoors, but seeing him make those shots in that wind made me realise that he's actually improving.
     
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  2. Cup8489

    Cup8489 Legend

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    He's always been a good wind player. Why doesn't anyone know this?
     
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  3. aceX

    aceX Hall of Fame

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    Everyone knows he's a great player in the wind. I'm talking about painting the lines with aggressive indoor play in the middle of crazy wind and rain - beating Nadal in the process. Nadal's wider margins give him the advantage in the wind, this is in a match up where he already has the advantage.

    The fact that he was able to play his indoor game in the wind shows he's getting even better.
     
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  4. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    He knows he cannot push with Nadal, so he might as well play HIS game, regardless of court surface, weather, wind, humidity, or whatever.
    That is a mental hurdle he has just overcome.
     
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  5. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

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    or he had a really good day. I have to see him keep it up for a bit longer before I decide he's getting into his best form again. A few times in this impressive run of titles he's looked great and at sometimes he's looked a bit ropey, but if he can continue to play well when he needs to then that's what counts. He's beaten Murray and nadal recently, that's really good. Hopefully he can keep it up.
     
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  6. FlashFlare11

    FlashFlare11 Hall of Fame

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    Yeah, I'm with Towser. As great as this win was, it will be short lived if he cannot carry it into Miami. The win over Nadal gives me hope that Federer will continue to pursue effective tactics against him, even if it means giving up a few points here and there. The confidence in a strategy and in his own abilities has to be present.
     
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  7. Bobby Jr

    Bobby Jr Legend

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    Surely you're not suggesting the result is on Federer's racquet?? :lol:

    I agree btw... when he has a good day and can play how he wants he is the better player. Those days just haven't come often enough in the past couple of years.
     
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  8. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

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    Yeah exactly. I mean I won't freak out if he doesn't win Miami, but I hope he carries on playing well and has the right attitude and plays well in the clay season too. If you can play well and be positive, you won't win everything but you give yourself a good shot at most tournaments. That's what i want to see from Roger, him playing well win or lose and if he has a bad tournament, he gets back in the groove for the next one.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2012
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  9. Qubax

    Qubax Professional

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    +1

    Very realistic and grounded response.

    You have no place on these boards.
     
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  10. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

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    haha yeah sometimes I feel very out of place, but there are a few people here who try to keep a good balance... thanks man
     
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  11. DjokovicForTheWin

    DjokovicForTheWin Banned

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    I agree, I think Fed just had a good day. Not to say he can't do it again, but I doubt it could ever happen in a slam against Nadal, except maybe at USO.
     
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  12. Magnetite

    Magnetite Professional

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    I think his experience paid off in that match.

    He knows how to manage his game in those conditions better than Rafa ..

    and he was on fire :)
     
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  13. FlashFlare11

    FlashFlare11 Hall of Fame

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    Roger is the best at this. The streak is Roger's response to the loss to Djokovic at the US Open (a pretty bad loss, I'd say). That's simply incredible! I doubt that there's ever been a player who goes from his most devastating defeats to remarkable victories and streaks as quickly as Roger.
     
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  14. spiderman123

    spiderman123 Professional

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    and Cincy.
     
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  15. BobFL

    BobFL Hall of Fame

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    I don't think that he is getting better in any particular part of the game. He has always been great. I do, however, think that he is getting less stubborn and more aware of his 'mortality'.
     
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  16. cc0509

    cc0509 G.O.A.T.

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    I don't think Federer is improving so much as he is clearly still long past his prime but what he is doing lately is working very hard to make up for what he is lacking due to age--ie.. slower movement and reaction time. In addition, he seems to be really keyed up and motivated now more than he has been in a couple of years IMO. He obviously knows that time is against him and it looks like he is trying hard for that final push of his career. Gotta hand it to him that he can still be so motivated after he has accomplished so much. I hope he is able to continue this streak for at least a while. Go Rog!
     
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  17. Hood_Man

    Hood_Man Legend

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    I'm cautiously optimistic about Fedal, it's great that he beat Nadal in bad conditions outdoors but until he manages to win 2 matches in a row against the guy for the first time since 2007, I'm going to control myself.

    Saying that, he's been with Annacone for a while now, the long term effects are probably beginning to bare fruit on a more consistent basis. The last time he had a start to a season this good was, what, 2006? He's proving he can still dominate most of the tour, and not only at the end of the season when everyone else is worn out or injured and everything's indoors.
     
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  18. cc0509

    cc0509 G.O.A.T.

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    I am with you 100% on that one.
     
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  19. FlashFlare11

    FlashFlare11 Hall of Fame

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    Sums-up my feelings exactly! Great post! :)
     
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  20. aceX

    aceX Hall of Fame

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    Sorry, but... no.
     
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  21. swordtennis

    swordtennis Hall of Fame

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    I will argue that Federer greatness is being defined not by his 16 majors or the beatings by Nadal the negative H2H against biggest rival but by his later years and continuing on and on and on.
    Fighting just loves tennis it all he knows outfoxing younger pumped players.
    Yet many say he his mentally weak?
    Federer can go toe 2 toe with any of the all time greats.
    Pure Tennis Player probably the last.
    However do not get too xcited Nadal is going to come out raging when they meet again.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2012
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  22. OldFedIsOld

    OldFedIsOld Professional

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    Improving strategy wise yes, his shot making ability and endurance have not.
     
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  23. syke

    syke Professional

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    Live ATP ranking for 2012...

    [​IMG]
     
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  24. Carsomyr

    Carsomyr Hall of Fame

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    Thirded. It was a great win over Nadal and capping it off with the giant-killer Isner was huge, but Federer has to prove himself in the majors to say he's anywhere close to the form he was in even three years ago, which was still pretty far removed from his peak years. He's learned some great new tricks the past couple of years, but the endurance, the concentration, the free-firing groundstrokes, aren't there consistently, especially in majors.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2012
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  25. phnx90

    phnx90 Hall of Fame

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    Great win for Fed, but at the moment, there's nothing to say that this isn't merely just a due victory for him rather than the tables having been turned on Nadal. Isn't Madrid 2009 the precedent for exactly this kind of thing?
     
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  26. FlashFlare11

    FlashFlare11 Hall of Fame

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    Well, Madrid 2009 didn't turn the tables on the rivalry. But it was the perfect springboard for Federer's RG2009 victory.
     
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  27. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    Roger will sweep the clay season this year, and win RG, too.
     
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  28. Carsomyr

    Carsomyr Hall of Fame

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    Well, the victory in Madrid did open the floodgates. And honestly, if Nadal had made any finals post-Wimbledon that Federer made (Cincinnati, US Open), I'm pretty sure he would have gotten crushed. Federer was lights-out in Cincinnati and still playing pretty excellent tennis at the USO. Nadal, on the other hand, came back playing like garbage. But he did make some deep runs in a few tournys, so it's not inconceivable that he could have reached either of those two finals if certain points were played differently or whatever.
     
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  29. phnx90

    phnx90 Hall of Fame

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    That's what I meant. Surely people thought a win over Rafa on clay was a sign of the rivalry doing a 180, when it in fact, didn't. IW 2012 could end up becoming the same, yet the boards are screaming about how Roger's BH is no longer a weakness, that Rafa's BH abuse no longer works, etc. as if the future henceforth has been written down in stone.

    As for RG 2009, without discrediting Fed or discounting it as a slam, I just don't think it means as much as his other 15 slams given he didn't have to beat Rafa for it. Maybe he'll do it this year, who knows.

    No real point talking about "what ifs", IMHO. Fact remains Madrid 2009 wasn't the turnaround point it was purported to be, and this IW victory runs the risk of being the same. So until Fed wins the next few encounters, it may be better-off to treat this match as an anomaly we've already accounted for.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2012
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  30. FlashFlare11

    FlashFlare11 Hall of Fame

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    Well, Roger only had to beat Rafa for two of his slams. Honestly, in my view, it was much more important for Nadal to beat Federer in the slams he won than the other way around (not including RG). Roger was the older, more experienced player, in the same way Roger beating Pete at Wimbledon was the passing of the guard from the old to the new, the same can be said from Roger to Rafa. They cannot be compared in the same generation as Raf entered his prime almost a generation after Federer. So, for Roger to beat someone five years younger than him (albeit his most dangerous adversary) is more trivial when Roger was in his prime than Rafa doing it when Roger was just coming off of his prime and Rafa was entering it.
     
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  31. Carsomyr

    Carsomyr Hall of Fame

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    :neutral:

    He beat two top ten players, not including the guy who beat Rafa, whose clay court acumen is well-documented, and Gonzo, who is himself a very accomplished dirtballer.
     
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  32. Biscuitmcgriddleson

    Biscuitmcgriddleson Professional

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    They never watched the USO QF against Agassi in 2004.
     
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  33. phnx90

    phnx90 Hall of Fame

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    That may be true now, but you have to remember that Rafa was denying Federer his RG title even during Roger's best years (2005, 2006, 2007). Therefore it makes sense that a complete RG win ought to involve ripping the title off Rafa's cold, dead hands.

    I said a RG beating of Rafa in 2009 would've make it more complete, not that RG 2009 was illegitimate or that he was given a cakewalk. Apparently, only Rafa gets those.

    Think of it this way: if Fed lost early in Wimbledon 2008 and Rafa won the title, wouldn't the *******s be up in arms claiming the win was the b_stard child of conspiracy and foul play, and that he hasn't conquered Wimbledon grass until he beats Fed there?
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2012
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  34. FlashFlare11

    FlashFlare11 Hall of Fame

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    Oh, how I wish Roger could beat Rafa at RG.

    Beating Rafa anywhere but RG doesn't add much weight to Roger's resume, at least, not as much as Rafa beating Roger at the other three slams did for him. But I'd love to see Roger beat Rafa there. Sadly, those days might (not affirmatively) be behind us.
     
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  35. Fugazi

    Fugazi Professional

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    Good in the wind? Heck no, he's had problems with windy conditions in the past.
     
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  36. Carsomyr

    Carsomyr Hall of Fame

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    :roll:

    Despite the recent hype, no, I don't think he's as good in the wind as Nadal. Nadal's game allows him to play much more in comfortable margins than other players (although he was a bit too comfortable against Fed). Still, that's ignoring that Federer is a great wind player himself, beating Agassi, one of the best wind players ever, in near hurricane gusts at the US Open.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2012
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  37. R1CKSO

    R1CKSO Rookie

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    Mmmm.... improving?? I guess he is just recovering his usual level...
     
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  38. monfed

    monfed Guest

    Tactically, Federer plays more to his strengths and tries to cover for his relatively weaker aspects of his game. This wasn't very apparent in his prime years where he'd display more of his showmanship ie full array of strokes. Gamewise, he's declined like crazy. You have to see him in 05/06 to see how he'd just turn up and make a mockery of his opponent(barring Ralph). Even in the first week of tournies, Fed fans are chewing their nails, that says a lot. He just doesn't coast to victories anymore.

    As far as facing Nadal goes, there's just so many talking points.

    - It was a BOF3. You have to understand Roger's mentality more for this because it was clear to me that after he won that first set , he knew he only had to win one more. That reduces the toll on his mind and it showed as he didn't go down 2-0 or 3-1 in the early part of the second set which almost always happens against Ralph.

    - Federer almost choked towards the end. Let's face it, he got broken at 5-2 and at 5-4 30-30, that point could've gone Ralph's way and maybe if it did he may have got broken. Luckily it didn't but it wasn't very convincing imo.

    -Fed never trailed the entire match. So it's still premature to say how he'd have fared if he had to come back from a set down or maybe breaks down. In other words, he wasn't 2-4/1-3 down in any sets(generally doesn't recover from these situations against Ralph)

    - Fed still has to play near his best or thereabouts to beat Nadal ala redlining. This has been the problem since their very first match in Miami 04.

    In BOF3 I'll favour Fed over Ralph(unless it's clay) from here on but BOF5 remains to be seen.

    I'm gonna stick my neck out and say Fed's realised deep down that he's gonna have to stick to his working strategy no matter what the state of the match is and I suspect AnnaGOAT has drilled this into him. :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 21, 2012
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  39. purge

    purge Hall of Fame

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    watching him play in 05 or 06.. and watching him play now.. its impressive that hes still as good as he is. but overall he has not improved since then. no way
     
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  40. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    So apparently there are "complete" and "non-complete" wins in tennis now, even in tourneys where you have to win 7 BO5 matches to win, what a hilarious logic.

    I guess given Nadal's current losing streak to Novak, every masters and slam he wins from now on without beating Novak would mean it's "incomplete".

    Complete or not, Nadal is simply a much better player than Fed on clay and a bad match-up on top of it(yes I do believe that bad match-ups exist in tennis unlike certain experts around here of course).

    Complete or not, Fed beating Nadal at FO was just never going to happen.

    Sorry but that couldn't be further away from the truth. Back in 2009 on this forum I lost count the # of times Fed's 2009 FO was called a cakewalk and obviously still to this day a number of people discount not just his 2009 FO but the rest of his slam wins as well since they were won in a "weak era" all the while forgetting that Nadal himself won 3 FOs in that era which somehow doesn't seem to get in their way when they hail Rafa CC GOAT.

    Sure *******s would just as *******s did/do, normal fans however are well aware of the fact that no player is bigger than the game and that a single victory over any specific player doesn't validate a tourney win by itself, you beat who's in front of you.
     
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  41. marcub 2.0

    marcub 2.0 New User

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    Miami won't be too relevant, as he played and won what- 3 or 4 back to back tournaments.

    What IS important is he learned to stick with a game plan - abusing Ralph's BH. More and more guys are effectively doing it now and credit goes to Djoker for proving it's possible.
     
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  42. cknobman

    cknobman Legend

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    I used to approach every tournament with the expectation that Federer should/would win.

    After mid 2008 that often left me upset and disappointed on many Sunday's.

    Then I saw this inspirational video:
    http://youtu.be/6xLsRI7-hBs

    Now I approach each tournament with the mideset "I just want to see Roger play, hopefully well but if not there is always next tournament".

    I find myself happier on more Sundays now and learn to really appreciate times like we've been having the past month.
     
    #42
  43. Marius_Hancu

    Marius_Hancu G.O.A.T.

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    No. A Masters win is a Masters win forever.
     
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  44. jackson vile

    jackson vile Legend

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    The biggest improvements came via 1) mentally ie confidence 2) strategy 3) backhand.
     
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  45. dudeski

    dudeski Hall of Fame

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    Federer seems to have improved mentally in the last tournament but just a few weeks ago he had his usual meltdown against Nadal in the middle of their match at AO. So I am not convinced yet that Fed improved until he shows that IW wasn't just a fluke.

    Also, Fed has significantly declined physically from his prime in 2004-2007. That's not even up for debate. That's for example why he hasn't reached Wimbledon semifinal since 2009 because he seems to need a longer break after clay court season to go deep at Wimbledon.
     
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  46. phnx90

    phnx90 Hall of Fame

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    The only thing hilarious here is the fact that you've mistaken me for attacking Roger RG when I'm not, at all. "Completeness" isn't some kind of integrity to slams that I invented whilst sipping one too many absinthes. Fact remains that many people will discount RG 2009 (again, not some kind of invention of mine). Since Fed's been beaten by Rafa every time they met at RG, it makes sense that beating Rafa at RG to take the title would've been the best way to complete his collection.

    Actually, yes. If Rafa can only win whatever tournaments Djokovic isn't in, then he's merely treating himself to scraps, albeit very high-value, million-dollar, record-setting scraps, but scraps nonetheless...just like RG 2009 for Fed and RG 2011 for Rafa. I'm not saying they don't count as wins, I'm saying that it wouldn't mean as much sentimentally.

    Well that's what you believe, not a fact. And I'm pretty sure you may get excommunicated for even thinking that Rafa's superior to Fed on clay. It's all in Fed's head and on his racquet, remember?

    I'll take your word for it.

    As for the "weak era" argument, the argument goes that whilst Rafa had Fed, the GOAT, in the way of his RGs, Fed had no-one on the other three slams for at least 3 years, allowing him to rack up titles in that time. I don't think highly of this argument however, so I'll leave it at that.

    Well that makes you one of the rare, reasonable people on the forum. As you can see from the amount of threads about how Fed's backhand is now invincible, not everyone thinks that way. Actually, scratch that, just about no-one thinks the same way.
     
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  47. Lawn Tennis

    Lawn Tennis Semi-Pro

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    I'd switch the top two. His strategy of going to Nadal's bh gives him the upperhand when employed like a few days ago. So 1 Stategy, 2 confidence, distant 3 backhand.
     
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  48. watungga

    watungga Semi-Pro

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    I know where he had this wind problem before. Its in an elevator with Nadal!
     
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  49. djokovicgonzalez2010

    djokovicgonzalez2010 G.O.A.T.

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    Federer is playing his best in a while right now. Hasn't looked this great since AO 2010 imo.
    No longer the instinct player he used to be, but as his talent fades he seems to think things through more.
    Djokovic seems to be in bad form, and Nadal is declining very fast- the #1 ranking is getting closer
     
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  50. Lawn Tennis

    Lawn Tennis Semi-Pro

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    nah, Djokovic has barely lost the two matches he did, and Nadal is about to enter his clay court run.
     
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