Umpire not supposed to????

[Backbored]

I was not satisfied with those answers. Woodrow can be very oblique in his posts at times and maybe that's because he doesn't want to appear to be critical of his fellow umpires. That's fair enough and I'm OK with that.

As for bullfan, well, he's clearly biased.

The bottom line is Nadal went off court for an injury that is normally treated on court. Wawrinka was entitled to ask the reason, because this is contrary to standard practice.

Nadal lays himself open to questioning about MTOs because of his previous history with strategic timing of those MTOs.

Virginia, has it occurred to you the reason he was not treated on court was because they did not know it was his back at the time, and not some other issue that was causing the problem? To which end, he may have had to remove his clothing for the trainer to make a diagnoses.

 

[bullfan]

Virginia, has it occurred to you the reason he was not treated on court was because they did not know it was his back at the time, and not some other issue that was causing the problem? To which end, he may have had to remove his clothing for the trainer to make a diagnoses.

Oh, I'm sure Nadal knew it was his back. Be that as it may, MTOs are allowed to be off court, without any requirement to tell the opposing player any reason.

 

[Bartelby]

The trainer knows the problem and an official supervising knows the problem, so Stan asked what was the problem.

Or, at least, that was what he was apparently doing, but what he wanted to convey was what the crowd coveyed with their booing.

Get your reading skill on.

Virginia's questions in the op were:

What's all that about??? How can an umpire not know why a player is disappearing from the court? Can a player go off court just because he feels like it?


Several others have answered her/him that it was about the umpire and Waw not privy to Nadal's medical condition. The umpire or officials know that Nadal was taking an MTO and that's sufficient. Woodrow already answered that an official went with Nadal. If officials didn't know or not ok with Nadal, would they just follow and stalk Nadal?

 

[Bartelby]

The medical time out is a time out taken on the basis of a claim made by the player and is therefore open to abuse.

 

[Crisstti]

The medical time out is a time out taken on the basis of a claim made by the player and is therefore open to abuse.

Say something we don't know already...

 

[Bartelby]

People overly focus on the 'medical' side, so the fact that it is a claim is something rarely addressed.

They might as well call it a 'time out' and then the charade might be unnecessary.

But this is something I don't prefer, so timeouts should be abolished.

Treatment at changeovers or between sets is all that should be allowed.

If they retain medical time outs there should be at least a point penalty.

Say something we don't know already...

 

[Backbored]

The trainer knows the problem and an official supervising knows the problem, so Stan asked what was the problem.

Or, at least, that was what he was apparently doing, but what he wanted to convey was what the crowd coveyed with their booing.

Right the crowd was spot-on with Tomic. Just saying.

 

[Virginia]

Virginia, has it occurred to you the reason he was not treated on court was because they did not know it was his back at the time, and not some other issue that was causing the problem? To which end, he may have had to remove his clothing for the trainer to make a diagnoses.

Oh please - other issue? Remove his clothing? Everyone and his dog knew that he had something amiss with his back.

You and chrissti and bullfan just can't bear to have anyone criticise your beloved rafa. So why don't you just ignore threads like these, if you don't like what people are saying?

 

[bullfan]

Oh please - other issue? Remove his clothing? Everyone and his dog knew that he had something amiss with his back.

You and chrissti and bullfan just can't bear to have anyone criticise your beloved rafa. So why don't you just ignore threads like these, if you don't like what people are saying?

Looking more and more like a hater that is bothered by the rules.

Btw, u missed where I indicated that Rafa knew what his issue was.

You completely missed my posts where I said own your hate, instead of putting up a sham post acting like you are willing to accept the truth.

Stan was out of line, the ump called him out on it. It was clear as a bell on my tv.

You act like you know the rules and refuse to point me to the rule indicating Stan had a legitimate right to know the reason Nadal got a MTO.

Sad last resort you've got going when you refuse to answer directly and try to say what I or others think.

 

[Bartelby]

Stan's point was that the MTO was illegitimate from an ethical point of view and everyone understood that.

 

[Backbored]

Oh please - other issue? Remove his clothing? Everyone and his dog knew that he had something amiss with his back.

You and chrissti and bullfan just can't bear to have anyone criticise your beloved rafa. So why don't you just ignore threads like these, if you don't like what people are saying?

Since you speak for everyone does that mean you have an enormous mouth to go with your ego?

 

[Virginia]

So now we're descending to personal insults, are we? Can't say I'm surprised though. You guys really do yourselves a disservice, by attacking me.

Everyone could see that Nadal's back was the problem - he indicated that VERY clearly.

I am simply reiterating what the Australian commentators were saying - the likes of Fred Stolle for example. Do you think they were talking rubbish?

 

[Virginia]

Looking more and more like a hater that is bothered by the rules.

Btw, u missed where I indicated that Rafa knew what his issue was.

You completely missed my posts where I said own your hate, instead of putting up a sham post acting like you are willing to accept the truth.

Stan was out of line, the ump called him out on it. It was clear as a bell on my tv.

You act like you know the rules and refuse to point me to the rule indicating Stan had a legitimate right to know the reason Nadal got a MTO.

Sad last resort you've got going when you refuse to answer directly and try to say what I or others think.

This is probably the most nonsensical post you've written in this thread - i think you might be losing the plot here. Hate? What are you talking about?

 

[bullfan]

So now we're descending to personal insults, are we? Can't say I'm surprised though. You guys really do yourselves a disservice, by attacking me.

Everyone could see that Nadal's back was the problem - he indicated that VERY clearly.

I am simply reiterating what the Australian commentators were saying - the likes of Fred Stolle for example. Do you think they were talking rubbish?

You attacked folks first, second, and now for a third time. Once again, you can't accept that your original question was answered as you'd like. A few Nadal haters jumped on your bandwagon, but that was your agenda all along. I haven't had to change what I've said.

Wawa was wrong, ump told him so. You can't point me to the rules that say otherwise because they don't exist. Otherwise put up the rules. Kinda a put up or shut up. You keep changing your arguments, instead of responding directly to the challenge of providing the rules to support your original post.

 

[Virginia]

I don't need to support my original post. I think the rules need to be clarified, so that everyone understands what's fair and reasonable.

 

[Backbored]

So there is no way it could have been his sciatic nerve or a herniated disc?

I have not had the pleasure of having seen Fred Stolle play or heard his commentary on any game. But I will go out on a limb and say he is not a doctor of medicine.

 

[Bartelby]

This is probably the rule referred to, so the CU could have been involved but whether this was the protocol at this event seems doubtful given what some say was said:

A Medical Time-Out is allowed by the Referee in consultation with the Grand Slam Supervisor or Chair Umpire when the Physiotherapist/Athletic Trainer has evaluated the player and has determined that additional time for medical treatment is required. The Medical Time-Out takes place during a change over or set break, unless the Physiotherapist/Athletic Trainer determines that the player has developed an acute medical condition that requires immediate medical treatment.

 

[bullfan]

I don't need to support my original post. I think the rules need to be clarified, so that everyone understands what's fair and reasonable.

The rules are there. Stan chose to think he had a right, he clearly knew he didn't have. He's been on the tour long enough. Stan was correctly chastised by the ump.

You refuse to accept it. You refuse to read the rules for yourself. They are out there in the public domain for any googling persons perusal. It is simply absurd for you to complain so much when you refuse to read the rules for yourself.

In fact Roger is making twitter jokes about it at this point in time.

Why should the rules be clarified, they are clear and out there. Stan knows the rules. He tried to bully the Ump, and didn't get away with it.

 

[Bartelby]

Trying to bully the umpire to what end?

There was none.

The medical time out system is open to abuse so people get angry.

 

[Bartelby]

The attendance of a doctor is not compulsory either:

The Medical Time-Out begins when the Physiotherapist/Athletic Trainer is ready to start treatment. At the discretion of the Physiotherapist/Athletic Trainer, treatment during a Medical Time-Out may take place off-court, and may proceed in conjunction with the Tournament Doctor. *

 

[Gut4Tennis]

It is not fair to get the advantage of a MTO and the other player not knowing why. Tennis and the code are built around fair play.

all is fair in love and war, and in a GS final , its war

 

[Bartelby]

And that's the reason for Stan's war cry about the 'injury' and it got the crowd on his side.

all is fair in love and war, and in a GS final , its war

 

[sbengte]

Wawa was wrong, ump told him so. You can't point me to the rules that say otherwise because they don't exist. Otherwise put up the rules. Kinda a put up or shut up. You keep changing your arguments, instead of responding directly to the challenge of providing the rules to support your original post.

But...but...it won't make a difference even if the rules are put up, right ?

What is the line that Nadal fans go with when he routinely violates the time rule ? "It is not cheating, it is just....the poor little thing needs to take his time" :lol: Or when Toni coaches on-court "Everyone does it....".

 

[sbengte]

Stan acted like an idiot. One just has to see the kind of posters who support his attitude...

Right. And one just has to see the kind of posters who support Nadal's time violation and on-court coaching violation which clearly is breaking rules/cheating.

 

[jrs]

I am still a little confused. I asked the same question in the other thread and it was not answered.
A player can choose to have treatment off court during a change over - basically walk off the court for treatment?

If this is the case why these medics carry a backpack and scurry over to the players chair - why not have all evaluation and treatments off court - players can walk off court without telling anyone and see the medics.

 

[Bartelby]

Player asks Chair Umpire for MTO who says yes on the basis of one MTO per treatable medical condition.

Trainer comes out at changeover and talks to player and then calls MTO to Chair Umpire and takes player off court if so desired.

There's a reasonable period for evaluation and then three minutes from it being called and the trainer needs to be close to CU to call an MTO easily.

However, both the evaluation and time out can be off court.

That's roughly it from memory.

 

[vernonbc]

Player asks Chair Umpire for MTO who says yes on the basis of one MTO per treatable medical condition.

Trainer comes out at changeover and talks to player and then calls MTO to Chair Umpire and takes player off court if so desired.

There's a reasonable period for evaluation and then three minutes from it being called and the trainer needs to be close to CU to call an MTO.

That's roughly it from memory.

Your memory is faulty. Trainer is always given time to evaluate the player before calling the official time out but some injuries can't be evaluated out on the court. The player (and trainer) are always accompanied off court by a tournament official who can be in contact with the umpire via phone or walkie talkie.

 

[bullfan]

But...but...it won't make a difference even if the rules are put up, right ?

What is the line that Nadal fans go with when he routinely violates the time rule ? "It is not cheating, it is just....the poor little thing needs to take his time" :lol: Or when Toni coaches on-court "Everyone does it....".

We are not discussing the time rule at this point in time. It's hard enough staying on the OPs topic.

Rafa was within his right to take the MTO, Stan was out of line to demand he had a right to know what was going on. The Ump told Stan in no uncertain terms he was incorrect and cease.

 

[Bartelby]

Not faulty at all.

I know the trainer has a 'reasonable' time to evaluate a player.

I do know the evaluation can be off court, but the phone business is not in the rules. The exact timing of the MTO will still be announced by the CU.

The trainer would have to be the one calling the CU, according to the rules.

Your memory is faulty. Trainer is always given time to evaluate the player before calling the official time out but some injuries can't be evaluated out on the court. The player (and trainer) are always accompanied off court by a tournament official who can be in contact with the umpire via phone or walkie talkie.

 

[Bartelby]

Stan obviously thought his reasons for taking it were not medical.

We are not discussing the time rule at this point in time. It's hard enough staying on the OPs topic.

Rafa was within his right to take the ?MTO, Stan was out of line to demand he had a right to know what was going on. The Ump told Stan in no uncertain terms he was incorrect and cease.

 

[Bartelby]

Medical time outs are being abused and need to be curbed.

That's the real story, end of story.

We can thank Nadal and Azarenka for bringing this to our attention.

 

[bullfan]

Medical time outs are being abused and need to be curbed.

That's the real story, end of story.

We can thank Nadal and Azarenka for bringing this to our attention.

Balony.....

 

[Bartelby]

A point or two penalty per MTO would curb their abuse.

 

[clayqueen]

When Wawrinka asked the umpire why Nadal had disappeared off the court, he said:

"I don't know".

Stan said "ASK"

Umpire said "I'm not supposed to."

What's all that about??? How can an umpire not know why a player is disappearing from the court? Can a player go off court just because he feels like it?

This does not make any sense to me.

You are just being simplistic. The umpire already announced that Rafa was taking a medical time out. That's all Stan needed to know. I have never heard the umpire say what the medical condition is that the player is being treated for. Why would the umpire say he is not supposed to if that wasn't the case. Ramos is an experienced umpire, he must know the rules more than you do.

The commies usually speculate about it and often no one knows until after the match.

 

[clayqueen]

A point or two penalty per MTO would curb their abuse.

Utter nonsense. Tennis is a sport where players are supposed to play whilst injured. Three minutes is not even enough to treat most injuries. I love the way armchair critics casually demand this and that when they have no clue what it's like as a pro.

 

[Deleted member 3771]

I'm a fan of Stan but it was bad sportsmanship on his part when he persisted in trying to bully the umpire into submission. He should have just accepted the umpires call and not made such a fuss.

 

[sbengte]

I'm a fan of Stan but it was bad sportsmanship on his part when he persisted in trying to bully the umpire into submission. He should have just accepted the umpires call and not made such a fuss.

Bwahahaha....
I suppose you also think that whenever Nadal gets penalized for going over the time limit or gets on-court coaching, it is bad sportsmanship from the umpire ? :lol:

 

[sbengte]

Can a player go off court just because he feels like it?

The above question is the main point of this thread and the OP asks a valid question which many of us have. I see no one has answered the above question.

Nadal just left the court because he felt like it. I don't know what he told the chair umpire, if at all he did say something.

 

[Bartelby]

I'd be fine with no mtos if they are supposed to play when injured.

Utter nonsense. Tennis is a sport where players are supposed to play whilst injured. Three minutes is not even enough to treat most injuries. I love the way armchair critics casually demand this and that when they have no clue what it's like as a pro.

 

[Bartelby]

He was complaining about a fraudulent act of Nadal's so the umpire is there to soak up the bad feelings. An unfortunate yet necessary role.

I'm a fan of Stan but it was bad sportsmanship on his part when he persisted in trying to bully the umpire into submission. He should have just accepted the umpires call and not made such a fuss.

 

[clayqueen]

The above question is the main point of this thread and the OP asks a valid question which many of us have. I see no one has answered the above question.

Nadal just left the court because he felt like it. I don't know what he told the chair umpire, if at all he did say something.

If Rafa can leave the court because he feels like it then he must have some pulling power that the powers that be recognize and minions like his detractors don't.

 

[clayqueen]

He was complaining about a fraudulent act of Nadal's so the umpire is there to soak up the bad feelings. An unfortunate yet necessary role.

They must all be scared of Nadal.

 

[Bartelby]

Nadal was the one getting whipped, not Wawrinka.

They must all be scared of Nadal.

 

[Bartelby]

The rules actually do allow him to leave the court when he feels like it as long as he 'claims' some medical reason and follows the procedure.

If Rafa can leave the court because he feels like it then he must have some pulling power that the powers that be recognize and minions like his detractors don't.

 

[RFRF]

He started to leave the court but made eye contact with uncle phony who then signaled to take somthing from the bag, he then doubled back and put it in his hand concealing it securely. Stan saw this and then got fired up. And so he should. Enough is enough. Ramos looked like a real moron that night. He had no balls to take control and give big Stan a straight answer.
A complete joke.

 

[namelessone]

He started to leave the court but made eye contact with uncle phony who then signaled to take somthing from the bag, he then doubled back and put it in his hand concealing it securely. Stan saw this and then got fired up. And so he should. Enough is enough. Ramos looked like a real moron that night. He had no balls to take control and give big Stan a straight answer.
A complete joke.

Ah, there we have it, that's why Rafa was getting dominated for a set and a half, he forgot his steroids, which he neatly concealed in his bag.

Also, apparently the rule is that the ump doesn't have to reveal anything to the other player. If I'm not mistaken, Nadal had painkillers administred when he left the court.

 

[namelessone]

The rules actually do allow him to leave the court when he feels like it as long as he 'claims' some medical reason and follows the procedure.

So where's the proof that Nadal saundered off without telling anything to the officials? And what's the actual procedure? Didn't Nadal's physio/trainer comunicate the issue to the ump/officials?

 

[moonballs]

Stan inquired into the nature of the injury because he thought it was bs - and so did I when I watched it. That's not to defend Stan, just to say I understand his suspicion.
From what I recall Nadal hits a forehand into the net, grabs his back and stretches/winces. They play one more point and Nadal is running around on court without problems. Then he takes an mto and comes back hobbled.
I still don't believe he was fully injured but I won't speculate on his reasons for exaggerating the injury now.

The injury is part true part BS. The true part is the now available information about the problem of L1 and L2. It definitely was bothering him, but note he actually held serve in the game where he doubled over after netting the forehand. So the MTO must have made his pain worse?

The BS part is leaving the court. Nadal fans can google where L1 and L2 are and you all saw what the subsequent back massages were like when they were given on court. The leaving the court part was purely psychological warfare. Stan did nothing wrong by asking when he smelled the BS.

The real problem is the rules are antiquated. They came from the ages of tennis being a gentlemen's sport. But with so many abusers like Azarenka and Nadal the rules have stopped being fair to the honest players in this aspect. I love tennis to remain gentlemen like. But most of it is just a pretense now. It is really silly to see players to raise his hand to apologize for a lucky net cord shot and in the meanwhile fist pump on opponents DF.

 

[SLD76]

The injury is part true part BS. The true part is the now available information about the problem of L1 and L2. It definitely was bothering him, but note he actually held serve in the game where he doubled over after netting the forehand. So the MTO must have made his pain worse?

The BS part is leaving the court. Nadal fans can google where L1 and L2 are and you all saw what the subsequent back massages were like when they were given on court. The leaving the court part was purely psychological warfare. Stan did nothing wrong by asking when he smelled the BS.

The real problem is the rules are antiquated. They came from the ages of tennis being a gentlemen's sport. But with so many abusers like Azarenka and Nadal the rules have stopped being fair to the honest players in this aspect. I love tennis to remain gentlemen like. But most of it is just a pretense now. It is really silly to see players to raise his hand to apologize for a lucky net cord shot and in the meanwhile fist pump on opponents DF.

that was my question. Usually at least for a first MTO, its given right on court. If the problem persists or feels worse, then you can go off court for a longer treatment. I was just puzzled at why Rafa immediately went off court for treatment. Also, why he was allowed to take the MTO before stan's service game.


as per the bolded, I think Hewitt kinda got that azzholish type behavior going, one of the reasons I didnt like him when he was in his prime.

 

[Bartelby]

I didn't say he didn't ask the CU for a trainer. The trainer only communicates the need for a time out with no explanation necessary for anyone, least of all Stan.

So where's the proof that Nadal saundered off without telling anything to the officials? And what's the actual procedure? Didn't Nadal's physio/trainer comunicate the issue to the ump/officials?