Up and Coming 12s and 14s

Discussion in 'Junior League & Tournament Talk' started by mythofthemetals, Aug 14, 2012.

  1. Alohajrtennis

    Alohajrtennis Semi-Pro

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    I think the the women average 5'7 to 5'8, with a fairly normal distribution with as many outliers below 5'4 are there are above 6'0. I don't think power is directly correlated with height in women as it is with men, Serena is a great example. While being taller helps, you are not going to see 6'-9 women who will change the dynamic of the women's game the way a Del Potro or Isner or Querry can do it in the men's game.

    Unfortunately, I think taller women in tennis is going to the norm going forward, but I think this will be more a function of selection bias in allocation of training resources, i.e, a self-fulfilling prophecy, rather than the result of true competition. Too many experts eying the size of the parents, coming up with a "projected height", and then letting that bias there decisions, rather than results.
     
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  2. TennisEko

    TennisEko Banned

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    thank u. i know this girl & the coach she started out with from gates mills oh...
     
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  3. TCF

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  4. TCF

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  5. Alohajrtennis

    Alohajrtennis Semi-Pro

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    I'm am not sure what your definition of tall is. For what its worth, the average height of women in the top thirty is just a hair over 5'8, 68.15". I don't consider that "tall". There is only one player in the top 30 above 6'0 (Sharapova @ 6'2 ), while there are three players below 5'5 (Errani 5'4 1/2, Cibulokova 5'3, Vincini 5'4). So I don't think taller women are in the majority.

    So, I don't see any actual evidence that tall girls hold up better than small girls, etc, or that small girls(<5'5) are any more or less an exception tall girls(above 6'0). Most successful players, past, present and I believe future, will be clustered between 5'6 and 5'10. If it does creep up, I believe it will becuase of selection bias, not actual skill.

    When you say small are you meaning 'slightly built'? I think you can be tall or short and have a delicate or solid composition/frame. Its not just about the height. Again, Serena is not "tall", but she's not slightly built either.
     
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  6. Alohajrtennis

    Alohajrtennis Semi-Pro

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    I am not just talking about federations taking taller girls rather than shorter girls into their programs. Its everybody, everywhere, and it starts from a young age, its the "soft tyranny of low expectations". Smaller kids are discouraged, bigger kids encouraged, pushed harder to excel, more of is expected from them, smaller girls are told good try, don't worry about it, you'll hit your growth spurt..how's violin practice going ? etc. Too much to go into here. But as long as everybody knows that taller girls are better, shorter girls are to fragile, than that's whats going happen.

    However, there will always be parents and private coaches, and kids, too stupid to know they don't have what it takes who will push on.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2012
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  7. TennisEko

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    I agree, it is a lot about heart and skill, being tall is just a bonus but not necessity.
     
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  8. Tcbtennis

    Tcbtennis Professional

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    The average height of an American woman is 5'4" so 5'8" is tall. If an American man was 4" taller than the national average he would be 6'2" and it would be considered an ideal height for tennis. For women in tennis, tall is better than not but tall and athletic is the best. I've seen tall girls out in junior tournaments who are slow movers on the court but are able to compensate with their power. I've seen small girls who are quick as jack rabbits and are able to keep more balls in play. But it is not so common to see the tall girl with the great athletic movement and skills. That girl with the right coach, right training and work ethic would be the one, in my opinion, to have a real chance of making a good living playing tennis.
     
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  9. TennisEko

    TennisEko Banned

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    Very well put. I completely agree with your statement...
     
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  11. TennisEko

    TennisEko Banned

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    Size should never limit the dream. Anyone who says that is wrong. Size of heart is what matters most
     
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  12. TCF

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  13. floridatennisdude

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    So, after 4 pages on this subject you guys have come up with 4 names?
     
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  14. TCF

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  15. RodSmooth

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    Its really dum to even call a up and coming junior unless there top 100 itf. anything can happen from 8's to 18's supernationals.. 99% wont go far pro no matter how much they win in the juniors
     
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  16. ga tennis

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    My daughter :)
     
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  17. barringer97

    barringer97 Rookie

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    "It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog."
     
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  18. floridatennisdude

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    Yea, very true. The ones that are truly focused on becoming elite likely aren't always at the top of the rankings. Building a game can cause losses in the short term. But, building a game and losing are both necessary for long term success.

    Everyone thought Donald young was going to be great because he could hit a great ball. But he never learned how to play great tennis. Thus, his big shots are wasted with poor decisions.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2012
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  19. MarTennis

    MarTennis Rookie

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    Cali Fuller...

    ...not sure you included her in the four, but I like to make my picks to review a few years from now.:)
     
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  20. Tennis2u

    Tennis2u Banned

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    Plenty of good juniors don't make it because all the factors are not in. Parent dedication is # 1, talent 2, coaching 3, tournament play 5, no injury 6.
    Money is always factor. if 1 factor is missing it is very tough for anyone to make it...
     
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  21. ga tennis

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    Great post!!
     
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  22. TCF

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  23. ga tennis

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    I might have to disagree with you TCF. At a young age i would say parent involvement is number 1.
     
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  24. TCF

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  25. ga tennis

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    Look at some of the greats that didnt start off liking tennis. Agassi,Sharapova,etc these players parents pushed them it wasnt until later that they took ownership of it and started really loving tennis. I remember how Yuri would treat Maria as a kid it was brutal.
     
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  26. TCF

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  27. ga tennis

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    Yea but when he did thats when it happened. Imagine if Yuri wasnt a crazy tennis dad and just let her hit around for hours where would she be. It took Yuri for it to happen.
     
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  28. Tennishacker

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    Yes, I was witness to Yuri's "brutal" treatment of Maria. I really don't think Maria ever had a choice of liking or not liking tennis.

    They were here for tennis, nothing else.
     
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  29. TCF

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  30. tennis5

    tennis5 Professional

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    On the flip side, you could end with kids who do not have the athletIc ability (genetics), and have disatisfactory relationships with their parents.
     
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  31. MarTennis

    MarTennis Rookie

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    I respect the way Yuri pushed...

    ...then dissappeared.
     
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  32. ga tennis

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    If you have ever met Yuri you will see where Maria gets her fire from.One thing i LOVE about Maria is her rituals. I try to show my daughter how Maria stays focused between points.It doesnt matter the score she continues to do her rituals.If you watched her and didnt know the score you wouldnt be able to tell if shes winning or losing.I think that all goes back to the impact Dr. Loher had on Nick back when he was there full time. Dr.Loher really was ahead of his time with the mental aspects of tennis.He is a great guy i worked with him several times he just couldnt get thru my thick skull.
     
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  33. TCF

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  34. chalkflewup

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    Doc is the bomb and has a new book out! If you're looking for a place to train in Orlando, HPI is a great turnkey operation. And yes, the kids journal there a la Loehr. Doc also has a son that was a heckuva junior in his day.
     
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  35. ga tennis

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    Another MUST!!! Kids need to journal DAILY!!! It is another MUST teaching tool. Is Dr.Jim working there full time? Whos academy is it?
     
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  36. chalkflewup

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    HPI is Human Performance Institute. There is an academy within HPI and Lorenzo Beltraime is the Director of Tennis.
     
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  37. ga tennis

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    Sounds like a cool place.
     
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