Use of Ill-Known Rules

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by TennsDog, Aug 5, 2006.

  1. TennsDog

    TennsDog Hall of Fame

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    I would like to hear from some people who have used their knowledge of the game and its rules in a match (i.e. using a rule that most people don't know about in your favor). For example, in one match a while ago, after hitting my first serve, a ball from a neighboring court rolled near me. I hit the ball back and called a let (by the rule stating that any interruption between first and second serves results in a let). My opponents thought I was crazy and called their coach over, only to have him confirm that I was right to call a let. It was quite amusing since they thought I was making things up. It's always fun to get at your opponents that way and show that you know the game.
     
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  2. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    I was being too nice to the ever cheating Raul by giving him a let that was actually my point. Raul in his ever present laziness decided not to clear a ball on his court. I hit the ball (not intentionally) and he had no chance of returning. Raul asked for a let, but I told him it was my point. I gave the cheat a let anyway and told him that in the future, his laziness would cost him the point. Think Raul would have given me a let?
     
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  3. Amone

    Amone Hall of Fame

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    I think using ill-known rules is just something you do. Why, because you can! I mean, as long as you can back it up, you should play by the rules, well known or not. So I don't think it's that witty or anything to do.
     
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  4. TennsDog

    TennsDog Hall of Fame

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    What are you talking about?
     
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  5. Amone

    Amone Hall of Fame

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    I mean, I was playing a match once where someone tried to stop the ball before it hit the ground, and that's a relatively well known rule; I didn't feel somehow intelligent because I knew about it and he didn't. So to mention little anecdotes of when I felt special because I made my opponent look like a dope is perhaps silly, is what I meant.
     
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  6. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    You mean he caught the ball? Technically, you'd win the point, but if the ball was obviously going out, you should just concede the point. Now if he catches the ball while well inside the baseline, you should claim the point because there's no way of knowing for sure if the ball was going out or not.
     
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  7. TennsDog

    TennsDog Hall of Fame

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    If you think it's "silly", fine, don't contribute to the thread, but you don't need to bring it down either.
     
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  8. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    You tell him, TD!
     
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  9. Amone

    Amone Hall of Fame

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    Actually, TD, by replying, I believe I'm keeping it up. :p Ah, the joys of silly replies...

    Okay, okay, I'm really going now.
     
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  10. Duzza

    Duzza Legend

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    What you did would be quite reasonable in Australia. In fact its the returner who says "take 2" LOL. Well, I was playing and the guy did a mad drop shot i sprinted to the net got it and it was going for its second bounce outside and he stopped the point said "Sorry mate, but you're foot is under the net and the point hasn't stopped" even though I had clearly OWNED him. Really annoying.

    One rule that I didn't really "use" as per say, but acknowledged, was we were playing doubles he did a high lob and it was bouncing back over from the BACKspin and so i smashed MISSEd completely and ended up putting my racquet under the ball and it just plopped onto the ground.
     
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  11. Supernatural_Serve

    Supernatural_Serve Professional

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    That's not necessarily true. At least according to the USTA "Code".

    Serving

    30. Delays During Service.

    Read it carefully.

    The ball rolling onto the court must meet an additional requirement to warrant a let:

    It states

    "The time it takes to clear a ball that comes onto the court between the first and second serves is not considered sufficient time to warrant the Server recieving two serves unless this time is so prolonged as to constitute an interruption. The Receiver is the judge of whether the delay is sufficiently prolonged to justify giving the Server two serves.

    In my experience however, as Receivers we always grant the Server a let. Its like a courtesy, but it is the Receiver's decision not the Servers.
     
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  12. Supernatural_Serve

    Supernatural_Serve Professional

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    I used my opponents lack of knowledge of the rules once. I was playing doubles, I was the significantly stronger returner than my partner. Quite simply, I cheated because they didn't know the rules, but I did.

    We decided on a gambit. We conciously "switched" sides so that I played deuce and not ad during a match at 5-5.

    That's against the rules. But, the opposing team didn't catch it. Then after winning the first point of the game. I said, "oh, we switched sides, I wasn't supposed to play deuce" and we then switched back to where we belong giving me a 2nd chance to return serve from ad thereby avoiding my partner returning serve until the third point.

    The rule is that once you identify that you've switched sides in doubles, you are to stay on those same sides to complete the game before returning to the appropriate side.

    My opponents didn't know that rule and I was counting on it.

    We won that game (I returned 4 serves, my partner 2 serves) and set but lost the match anyway.

    Karmic justice.
     
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  13. ryohazuki222

    ryohazuki222 Semi-Pro

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    i guess im just WAAAAAAAAY too lenient.... there's been several circumstances as mentioned above in which i know the rules and it's obvious my opponent doesnt... i just let it go and dont say anything.... and it doesnt really bother me either... then again... i dont really mind losing either.... maybe if i was a stickler about the rules i'd win more matches (id get more points as well as fluster my opponents by citing lesser-known rules...)
     
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  14. ramseszerg

    ramseszerg Professional

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    How do you guys know all these rules? Experience or read the Rules?
     
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  15. ChipNCharge

    ChipNCharge Professional

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    It seems most players don't know that it's against The Code to yell "short!" or "look out!" to their partner after they've hit a weak lob.
     
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  16. snoflewis

    snoflewis Hall of Fame

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    well...you can't really talk at all during a point so im guessing that would be against the code.

    the worst thing is when someone you're playing thinks that they are "tennis gurus" and thinks that everything that they do is correct. for instance, i read about the rule of your racket being able to go past the net (still in your hand of course) as long as the ball has travelled over the net to your side and you've hit it. to make it clearer: the ball goes over to your side...you're at net....you hit the ball..the ball's ahead of your racket...your racket goes over the net as a finish. ok..so i looked it up on the usta rules and everything..and knew for sure that it was legal.

    so my former hitting partner and I, who i've proven wrong multiple times (he thought prestiges were orange and radicals were red...for example...and MUCH more), are waiting for a public court. some old people hit a shot exactly according to the rule above, and they're arguing that it's not legal...and so my partner says to me that that was illegal...and we get into some argument when he thinks he's right and i've already looked it up on USTA. needless to say...he's a "self-proclaimed 4.5-5.0 player" and didnt even make the HS tennis team....definitely a tennis guru
     
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  17. hammer

    hammer Rookie

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    Once I was playing doubles and my partner's racquet slipped off of his hand after making contact with the and hit the net. The ball landed in on the opponents' side and we won the point. I knew we should've lost the point because the racquet hit the net, but I didn't say anything and was waiting for my opponents to say something. They kept silent as well, so we took the point. This actually led to my best comeback ever as we lost the first set 6-1 and were down 0-5 in the second. We ended up coming back in the second and winning 7-5 and won the third set 6-4.
     
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  18. rasajadad

    rasajadad Hall of Fame

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    It seems like the thread should read "Misuse of Known Rules". Some of you are just telling how you cheat. Why don't you just call all close shots out?

    There are rules and again, there is the Code. If you cheat by knowingly not following either, you are weak and should probably be Lendled, (drop shotted, then nailed in the pills.) It would serve you right. Flame on!
     
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  19. equinox

    equinox Hall of Fame

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    There's no technically about this. The ball was still in play and your opposition failed to return it. You win the point.

    Oh and if he wanted to catch a ball so bad, he should have taken up baseball or something similar.
     
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  20. Punisha

    Punisha Professional

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    Heres one ive heard of from a friend.

    If when playing a point your hat comes off and its hits the ground its the opponents point and counted as distraction... :p

    Not exactly verbatim but something along those lines
     
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  21. Supernatural_Serve

    Supernatural_Serve Professional

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    The code can be read and studied in a relatively short time in part because you probably know 80% of the code simply from playing tennis.

    Its just principles, rules, and guidelines. Its not intellectually challenging stuff.

    Everyone who enjoys the game should download and read a copy of the code. I have a wrinkled battered copy of it in my tennis bag.

    I've never pulled it out during a dispute, but I have pulled it out during a changeover and handed it to my opponent and said "like I said previously, you are WRONG, so read and learn idiot"
     
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  22. Supernatural_Serve

    Supernatural_Serve Professional

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    That's not true.

    In an officiated match, the chair umpire is to call a let. Warn the player that the next time his hat falls off, a ball rolls out of his pocket, or any other piece of clothing (glasses) etc. falls off it will be called a deliberate hindrance and the offender loses the point.

    Read Part 3 USTA Regulations: USTA Comment II.C-9

    In an unofficiated match, if your hat falls off or a ball falls out of your pocket or if the person trips over his hat or the ball that rolled out of his pocket, no let should be granted to the offender. Play continues regardless and the point stands as played.

    The principle is: The hat/ball etc. are under the offender's control and therefore he will not be granted a let for something under his control

    And no, the other party does not automatically win the point. You simply continue playing the point out.

    Read Part 2 commonly referred to as "the Code": Hindrance Issues 35. Lets due to hindrance
     
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  23. Supernatural_Serve

    Supernatural_Serve Professional

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    It would serve all players to actually know the rules of tennis instead of playing a game whose rules they are completely clueless about.

    It is everyone's responsibility to learn and know the rules.

    And yes, its everyone's responsibility to play honorably and part of playing honorably is knowing the code.

    Isn't it crazy that people go out and argue about a rule when they've never read the code or the official rules of tennis.

    How am I to know that you are cheating or simply clueless when arguing about a rule you simply don't know.
     
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  24. Supernatural_Serve

    Supernatural_Serve Professional

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    Good job.

    Maybe they thought the point ended before the racquet hit the "net" in which case both you and the opponent played it perfectly, but if the racquet hit the net before the point ended, then you cheated. But didn't you say the opponent thought the point had ended before the racquet hit the "net"

    ;)
     
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  25. tennis_nerd22

    tennis_nerd22 Hall of Fame

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    well if the ball was obviously going long, then even if he catches it to save time, dont be an *** and say its your point because of the "rules". you know you lost the point, so try and get the next one, and the one after that... right? ;)

    (yay post 1,500! :D lol)
     
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  26. tennis_nerd22

    tennis_nerd22 Hall of Fame

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    agree with that statement ;)
     
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  27. Morpheus

    Morpheus Professional

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    Here's one that came up recently in league play:

    In doubles, I am set to receive serve in the deuce court. My partner is standing near the service line in the ad court. The serve ticks the netcord and hits my partner on the fly. Our opponents claim it is their point because we didn't let the ball bounce. We allowed them a let serve.

    This created lots of controversy. Who was correct?
     
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  28. TennsDog

    TennsDog Hall of Fame

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    I would say you are correct, being that by it hitting you before the court, it is accepted in play (just as catching it long). However, because it hit the net first, the ball was dead.

    About catching the ball and calling point, I have determined that I will not say anything if it's early or the match is fine. But I will call it if my opponent is being an *ss in other ways and making me mad. I never do it, though, because I don't trust my opponents to be "gentlemen" about it.
     
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  29. brownbearfalling

    brownbearfalling Hall of Fame

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    In doubles when recieving serve at the beginning of every set, one partner can set up on the duece side and the other on the ad side. Once the opponent serves you can quickly switch sides so the person on the ad side returns the serve, but after that, the person initially on the ad side now has to play the duece side for the rest of the set. I know it's probably unsportsmanlike, but I think it'd be cool to try it in a match.
    ________
    Michigan Medical Marijuana
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2011
    #29
  30. Supernatural_Serve

    Supernatural_Serve Professional

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    It is a let.

    Why? Because it hit the net cord AND because your partner didn't allow the ball a chance to bounce in the service court.

    And it doesn't matter if the ball didn't have a chance of ever hitting that service court after hitting the net cord.

    As a matter of fact, it is a let even if the serve hits the net and actually hits the receiver standing 5 feet behind the baseline. Its not out. Its a let.

    Part 1 ITF Rules of Tennis. Rule 22. The Let During A Serve
     
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  31. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    This is a well known rule, but I can't believe how many people attempt to get away with it anyway: A dude hits the net with his racquet and tried to claim that he hit the net only after the ball was hit. What was he gonna do? Hit the net before he hit the ball? I claimed the point because this guy had no argument at all.
     
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  32. Supernatural_Serve

    Supernatural_Serve Professional

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    you can touch the net all you want, as long as the point is over.

    If the point hasn't ended, then you can't touch the net with any part of your body or racquet and you can't touch the court on the other side of the net either (again, unless the point has ended).

    I've done that balancing act routine trying to stop from hitting the net and then using my racquet by reaching over the net and touching the court on the other side of the net to balance me, but again, that was after the ball bounced twice and the point was over. If I did that while the ball was in play I would lose the point.
     
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  33. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    Do you really think the ball is gonna die on someone's followthrough? the ball was in play, but this idiot said he touched the net after he hit the ball. According to your scenario, this guy would have to have the slowest followthrough in the history of tennis to have won the point.
     
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  34. Supernatural_Serve

    Supernatural_Serve Professional

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    I've never seen that. I can't imagine it happening either, except possibly one very far fetched scenario:

    some huge totally outstretched backhand overhead where they took the softest swing imaginable and simply kept swinging while tripping and stumbling and then the racquet "somehow" hits the net.

    But that scenario is so far fetched that its a 1 in a billion.

    I've never seen this happen and can't imagine it, but the ball is a magical thing when its on a tennis court.

    I've seen a few things on a tennis court that previously I couldn't imagine happening.
     
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  35. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    So in other words, you understand that he lost the point and that his argument about touching the net after he hit the ball was stupid.
     
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  36. Supernatural_Serve

    Supernatural_Serve Professional

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    It was both stupid and absurd.

    As we both know, it doesn't matter that he hit the net after hitting the ball, the only argument he could have possibly have made was that he hit the net after the point was already over. Which in this scenario would be totally delusional.
     
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  37. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    True, but unbelievably, there are people out there who think it's ok to touch the net. Go figure
     
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  38. DragonNeedSpank

    DragonNeedSpank Rookie

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    One time, it was 30-15 and he was serving. He was serving on the left side of the court i saw that and i didn't say anything. THen when he served it I said " OHH its my point becuz u serve on the wrong side of the court ".. He called his coach and the point was mine :)!!!! lol.. the coach told me let him slide this time.. I said not huh he did it too many times (one was too many).. so i got the point :) !! and if u wanted to know i won the game :)!! hehe
     
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  39. Supernatural_Serve

    Supernatural_Serve Professional

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    According to the ITF and USTA rules both you and your coach were wrong.

    The guiding principle concerning errors such as these is to correct the situation immediately. But, all previous points stand as played. And no correction can be made while the ball is in play. Once he served that ball from the wrong court, the point had to be played out and its outcome must stand.

    So, if he served a ball in and you didn't return it but called an error, you were simply wrong. Its his point.

    Great, we got coaches out there that don't read the rules either.

    Read

    ITF: 27 a. Correcting Error

    and

    USTA Comment 27.1 Errors as to Ends, Sides, Rotation, Service Order, etc.
     
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  40. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    At 30-15, he was supposed to serve from the left side.
     
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  41. papa

    papa Hall of Fame

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    Your racquet, hat, etc., cannot hit the net whether its in your hands or not - I think you know that. If you touch the net your obligation is to call the infraction on yourself - if you don't it cheating. plain and simple. Doesn't matter if its one "small" thing or another its cheating.
     
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  42. TennsDog

    TennsDog Hall of Fame

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    I assumed he meant the server was standing on the receiver's left, which would put them in the deuce court.
     
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