using your hips to hit hard?

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by shadower4, Nov 23, 2010.

  1. shadower4

    shadower4 New User

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    ive been told buy some of the best players around when i asked them how they hit their forehands so hard they said fire your hips use your hips i dont know how though i can stand and rotate my hips a little but feel like it will do nothing with my swing power anyone know how to properly do this?
     
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  2. kiteboard

    kiteboard Hall of Fame

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    It's like throwing a frisbee, bh, you open your hip up first, and drag the rest of the shot behind the opened hip, while you snap back with the wrist.
     
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  3. mathieu

    mathieu Rookie

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    Biggest BS i have ever heard. You use your shoulders to rotate, while your lower body is essentially motion less. Your, "best players around" must not be that great lol.
     
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  4. theZig

    theZig Rookie

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    actually the shoulders and hips work together. the hip movement isnt so exagerated as a "shoot out" but the hips SHOULD be involved. the key is every unit should be used at the same time. watch any of the pro vids and you'll notice their hips go back ever so slightly during the take back, and vice versa. it mainly helps with weight transfer, however.
     
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  5. dozu

    dozu Banned

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TrKHZzetpc

    this is a drill to let you feel the core rotation that generates the power.

    in terms of firing the hip or not.... this may vary from player to player.... some fire the hip significantly early than the shoulders, some not so much. Your body type should determine what's natural for you.
     
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  6. chico9166

    chico9166 Guest



    Really? Hip rotational speed in elite players can reach upwards of 400 degrees/per second in the forward swing. (Gordon, Phd.) Hip rotation increases overall range of motion and speed of shoulder rotation capabilities.
     
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  7. kiteboard

    kiteboard Hall of Fame

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    This emphasizes opening the hip up first, and snap back towards your rear end, on the forehand. I call it the snap back, wherein, as you move into the shot, with the hitting foot, the snap back occurs, which creates a whipping effect. Body moves into shot, while our wrist snaps the stick backwards, towards your own ass. Fed does this, and goes from low to high in the stroke, and creates a ton of pace. He also disguises the shot, and acts as if he is always going inside out, and freezes opponents, so that they cannot react/read/anticipate the actual direction until it's too late. Body moves forward, wrist snaps back= whipped stick.
     
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  8. kiteboard

    kiteboard Hall of Fame

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    Listen to this guy. Top players always open the leading hip up very fast when they go for a finish or a jam shot.
     
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  9. polski

    polski Semi-Pro

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    Power starts from your toes/feet & tranfers through your legs and continues to your core & hips. Tremendous torque can be generated through a relatively small hip "pop."

    The lower body is by no means motionless - that would be a hideous looking swing. Federer's legs might not look like they are doing much, but they are generating a ton of power through torque that has transferred to his core at impact.

    To the OP, what I try to explain to people is that you need to generate a slight hip rotation by using your legs. It shouldn't look like you are thrusting your hips, just that your body is turning in sync with your shoulder rotation.
     
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  10. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    Yes, but, I like to think of the entire upper body as a single piece, a cylinder. The hips, shoulders and everything in between should rotate as one. JMHO!
     
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  11. kiteboard

    kiteboard Hall of Fame

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    The leading hip opening up first is how you knock out wide receivers. It's also a main tech. that boxers, martial artists, use to defeat opponents in the ring.
     
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  12. HunterST

    HunterST Hall of Fame

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    Do you have any experience with boxing or martial arts?

    When you throw a punch all the power comes from the hip. You can feel the power of the punch coming from the rotation of the core. I find that when I replicate this feel on my forehand it gets a lot power.
     
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  13. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    I know this post was in response to Kiteboard. But, as one who has done some fighting (among other sports), optimally, the entire upper body rotates as one. You can think of it as leading with the hip if you want to. Rotating the upper body certainly involves the legs a lot. But, in the end, the entire upper body should rotate together with the arm extension, as one. The same principle applies to swinging a racquet. Then there's the defense aspect of throwing a punch, but, that's beyond the scope of this discussion.
     
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  14. HunterST

    HunterST Hall of Fame

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    Yeah, it is really the whole upper body, but my coaches said to think of it as the hip. I think if you get the hips rotating then the rest of the upper body will follow naturally.

    Just to clarify, do you feel that same upper body rotation on your forehand that you do in a punch, especially a right cross?
     
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  15. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    Not exactly. The upper body rotation I use with a forehand invloves turning back and forth. With a punch, I didn't use any backward rotation, only forward. And, I also punched from a position bent over at the waist, always bobbing back and forth to keep my head from being directly in front of my opponent. With a forehand, I bend more from the knees. But, my upper body rotation itself, on both, is the whole upper body as one piece.
     
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  16. chico9166

    chico9166 Guest

    Not sure about fighting, as i've always run away.:) But in the modern forehand, the body unwinds its position from the ground up in sequential order. So the hips begin there cycle earlier than the torso.(often times even as the player is laying the racquet down in the backswing) In fact,this is the distinguishing factor in a multi-segmented swing. (segments rotating at different times and speeds) Suppose a single unit swing, is viable. (as in years past) But not sure why one would want to.

    Anyway, the most important thing is that hip rotation, aids and abets in torso/shoulder rotation. In fact, how the hips and shoulders interact is a very important aspect of the creation of racquet head speed.
     
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  17. kiteboard

    kiteboard Hall of Fame

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    Listen to this guy.
     
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  18. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    "[A] multi-segmented swing." Too complicated for me.
     
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  19. spacediver

    spacediver Hall of Fame

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    What he said.
     
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  20. jmjmkim

    jmjmkim Semi-Pro

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    In looking at traditional classic style forehands like Chris Evert, it is very evident that her hips initiate the whole release of the upper body. Even in golf, it is the legs, perhaps more specifically the left knee, that initiate the swing. The upper body coils around the waist until the hips are about 45 degree turned, and the shoulders are turned 90 degree or so. Then, the coiling stops, and thus "potential" energy is stored. The first initial "move" that releases the stored energy and starts the "chain" is said to be a slight lateral movement of the left knee. Likewise, in tennis, I think the hips come into play. It is harder to do in tennis since every shot is not sitting still like a golf ball. Tennis is a "Open Skill" sport.

    One can not rotate the shoulder just itself. In order to rotate the shoulder, the trunk muscles come into play, which is connected to the hips. When we start to break down the swing into infinite parts, then who knows how far we can trace the origins of the first initial muscle that starts the tennis swing...... but I am sure they are all connected. It probably takes all the muscles in our body to produce a worthy swing.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2010
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  21. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

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  22. big bang

    big bang Hall of Fame

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    I have been boxing and playing tennis for most of my life and I find power generation very similar. If you wanna compare the forehand to a specific punch then it will be the hook. Boxing is very good training for learning to transfer full bodyweight into every shot. Wozniacki added boxing to her program last year and has been very satisfied with the results.
     
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  23. salsainglesa

    salsainglesa Semi-Pro

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    key is kinetic chain, I already started a thread about thattoday, some people are fixated over one partof the chain in particular, because that is where they broke the chain, concentrate on energy transfer from the ground tothe contact point...

    there isno usein turning your hip if the ball is too damn high, leg, hip, shoulder arm raquet to the contact point...
     
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  24. x Southpaw x

    x Southpaw x Semi-Pro

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    Why are ppl even discussing if hip rotation is part of the swing or how important it is? The OP asked HOW to incorporate the hips or "fire" them, not why.

    I'm not sure how an experienced tennis coach would teach it, but I say grab a tennis ball and throw it as hard as you can at a wall until you get the muscle memory of using your whole body for power down. After that, hitting hard is just about hitting the sweet spot and hitting the weight room.
     
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  25. Blake0

    Blake0 Hall of Fame

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    As i've said, lead with the hip..

    Once you finish coiling up and you've finished preparation, you swing forward. Your legs unload, upper body uncoils, and blah blah blah (surely you've heard it a ton of times). Think of your forward swing as leading with the hip. Many players that don't have as much power as they can get use the hips inefficiently and it seems as if the hips turn as a response to the shoulder rotation, when it should be the hips turn actively to contribute in having a more explosive shoulder turn. Not only that but i feel like leading with the hips help me get into the slot position easier/naturally as well, which is another key element in hitting hard.

    So basically when you go out to hit, lead your forehand with your hips which increases shoulder turn explosiveness, which increases rackethead speed. Then it's all about timing/technique, to maximize efficiency of each body part, and transfering the power to the ball.
     
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  26. Ten_is

    Ten_is Rookie

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    Everything starts with the hips. Absolutely agree with this thread therefore i brought it up again.
     
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  27. The Vitamin L

    The Vitamin L Rookie

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  28. user92626

    user92626 Legend

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    So, is the fh stroke supposed to be hit as slackened as the string of that drum?
     
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  29. TimothyO

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    Yes, you should for certain activities...
     
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  30. TennisCJC

    TennisCJC Legend

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    TheZig has it spot on. Legs, hips, shoulders, and arm all in 4 part harmony is the key to the big bang. Not that I can do it consistently but this is the ticket to tennis nirvana.

    This concept has been around for decades. Vic Braden taught the kinetic chain in the 70s. Macci teaches it now. When the chain gets out of sync is when you usually make errors or don't get as much easy power. My FH can go off and arm can get off the chain. I call this the dangling arm FH because it lacks power and consistency.

    Even at the pro level you see break downs. Especially on WTA, where you see a lot of 2 HBHs better than 1 HFHs. Easier to keep the chain in unison on 2 HBH because both hands are on the racket which helps keep the arms in sync with the shoulders. You see a lot of FH on WTA that don't handle pace as well as 2 HBHs.
     
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  31. Silent

    Silent Semi-Pro

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    As far as I know, power comes from the ground and so for it to reach your shoulder, it has to go through the hips. Hockey, Golf, Baseball, name it. You have to use your whole body, sometimes muscles you didn't even know you had.

    EDIT:
    That too, definitely.
     
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  32. italia

    italia New User

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    Agree with TheZig. Try to throw anything using your arm only, with noyour hips & shoulders movement (the way most 3.5 players hit) then you will see the point.

    Another thing is once you use more legs, hips, shoulders and less arm movement to generate power for your shot, your accuracy & consistence will increase.
     
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  33. dominikk1985

    dominikk1985 Legend

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    rotating the shoulders to swing is low level. that is called a top down swing.

    of course the shoulders do rotate but they are more or less passively pulled through by the legs, hips and core. "freewheeling" the shoulders to get that powerfull turn look is one of the worst things a beginner can do. it is actually worse than not rotating at all because it disperses the power and ruins control.

    the arm and shoulders need to be driven by the legs (ground reaction force) and hips.
     
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