USTA High performance coaches quitting

Discussion in 'Junior League & Tournament Talk' started by willshot, Aug 11, 2010.

  1. chalkflewup

    chalkflewup Hall of Fame

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    Because collectively the private sector, academies, etc... aren't lighting up the ATP Top 100. Yet they take in millions each month, and according to the experts here on the forum, all we get are thousands of crazy parents, a few good college players and nothing in the pipeline. So why should the USTA fund the private sector that has taken in hundreds of millions of dollars over the last 10 years without success?

    So when it's convenient we blame the USTA. Any USTA attempts to grow the game here are shot down. For example, i believe QuickStart is a step in the right direction to grow the game. While the plan may need adjustment, I think it's a great investment. I also believe the USPTA is so well positioned to grow the game through programs. Given the right framework, this network of tennis evangelists can get more kids playing the game.
     
  2. dannythomas

    dannythomas Semi-Pro

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    Couldn't disagree with you more. I believe Quick Start is fine for beginners but every kid is different and it should be available for those that want to go down that route but not rigidly imposed. For example there are kids of 7-10 who are playing at a high technical level now. So how can those kids be asked to forget everything and go back to playing on a small courts with soft balls ?
    As for the Academies it is simply not true that they are not producing players. But most of them are kids from overseas training in Florida and California. If the USTA gave more support to the families of kids from over here instead of pushing them into their own programs then more kids would have the opportunities to work with the top coaches and top kids from other countries.
     
  3. chalkflewup

    chalkflewup Hall of Fame

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    Then we disagree. And while it's interesting to debate, it's a pointless exercise.

    -----------
    Grand Slams in the Open Era (Men's Singles)
    USA: 51
    France: 1
     
  4. TennisNinja

    TennisNinja Hall of Fame

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    Don't you have to consider though, that a lot of players like Sharapova play for another country, but are basically American?
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2012
  5. onehandbh

    onehandbh Hall of Fame

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    From a purely economical and statistical point of view,
    if I were 16 year old world class athlete, I would not choose
    tennis as main sport to try to make a living in.
    Even if the USTA helped to defray the costs of training and
    traveling, the odds are lower of breaking the top 100 and
    making a decent living are lower.

    Off the top of my head I'd pick any of the following ahead
    of tennis:
    Golf, basketball, baseball, soccer (go play in Europe),
    football, and maybe even cricket.
     
  6. chalkflewup

    chalkflewup Hall of Fame

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    It's not about making a living, it's about making a life. When it comes to teaching life lessons tennis is in a league of it's own.
     
  7. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    No doubt what you say is true, but again not my point. Tennis also allows networking with potential employers and college opportunities. You can never guarantee your freak athlete will go into any particular sport. A 16 year old these days has most likely picked his sport already.

    But you can spend your money wisely to attract more kids to tennis and keep it affordable for them to stay. You are playing the odds, more kids, a deeper pool from which that freak athlete might get into tennis.

    All sports have their attractions to some kids and not for others. I have seen lots of boys take up tennis and quit other sports because of the pretty girls in tennis! We had one great athlete quit football for tennis last year. He was 12 and said he would rather play a sport where girls trained on the next court rather then hang out with sweaty guys.

    So tennis can get some better athletes over time. It would just take a much better plan than the USTA has. Heck, run some ads all over Nick and ICarly with silly stories like the one I told about the football kid. I have never seen one ad or attempt to attract kids into tennis on any popular kids network.

    I would rather blow millions on at least trying to make tennis cooler for kids than spending it on 29 kids in Boca Raton. The odds of high performance producing a top 100 player with a stable of 20-40 kids is beyond tiny.

    Fire Pat Mac and Higueras and all the other high priced people and replace them with the best kids marketing and advertising firm in America.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2010
  8. chalkflewup

    chalkflewup Hall of Fame

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    TCF you're a bright mind and I agree with you about more marketing. But we need the high performance program. And they touch a lot more than the 29 kids you toss out. It's not all about Boca. I've seen it first hand.

    Look at Coco Vandegehwe's recent run with wins over Madduk-Sands, Stephens, Krajicek, Dulko and Wimbledon finalist Zvonereva! That was obviously overlooked on the forum by the naysayers but not by people in the pro circles. She's been working with USTA coach Tom Gullikson and has had a few good runs. Is she Serena? No, but who is? The "nothing in the pipeline" comment is true if you want it to be true.

    You can continue to wage your war against the program but it will continue on and I believe the US will resurface at the top of the game again in time.
     
  9. Soianka

    Soianka Hall of Fame

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    Interesting point.
     
  10. West Coast Ace

    West Coast Ace G.O.A.T.

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    TCFla is way too smart and non-PC for the USTA - they'd have Security boot him after 15 minutes of the interview. I don't think they're open to 'telling it like it is'. The USTA top brass is a tight clique - Outsiders not welcome. And if you don't believe it you just have to look at the McEnroe family - one brother is willing to toe the party line; the other is a rebel. Which one was ignored and had to go start his own thing?

    I don't think pointing out a girl from a very wealthy family is a great example of the 'system is working'...
     
  11. onehandbh

    onehandbh Hall of Fame

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    I agree with you. Tennis needs a bigger pool of athletes to
    draw from.

    btw, if you watch the right episode of iCarly, you might
    catch someone on it that has a one hand backhand.

    Might be true, but star QB/point guard's posse of
    cheerleaders and masses of the student body trumps
    the tennis girls.
     
  12. GRANITECHIEF

    GRANITECHIEF Hall of Fame

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    Still think Harrison will never see the inside of ATP 50?
     
  13. The Dawgs

    The Dawgs New User

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    Missed this prediction

    I guess the USTA looks pretty good on this one now. Pasha had a tremendous freshman season at UGA and his well on his way to a great career.
     
  14. Milan

    Milan Rookie

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    USTA should quit too
     
  15. Milan

    Milan Rookie

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    Hundreds of millions to academies? [​IMG]

    Man you have no idea do you? You probbly also think Governments should print money and hire all the workers in the world because the "private sector" is not doing it, LOL
     
  16. chalkflewup

    chalkflewup Hall of Fame

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    ^^^
    Government? Wrong forum my friend but, I appreciate the personal attack. It makes you look not-so-nice.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2012
  17. Staidhup

    Staidhup New User

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    Great young players are defined by hart, dedication, and sacrifice, unfortunately for the most gifted athletes if they are not noticed and coddled by the USTA developmental staff they have to go it on their own, and that takes dedication, money, and work effort. Those unrecognized players go on to college if they have talent, a few on to challengers, satellites, and futures, to further develop their game. The USTA would be better served to financially support futures, satellites, and challenger tournaments and let the cream rise to the top and stop trying to pick winners at the ripe old age of 12-16. Maybe Pat and his crew should spend some time visiting Europe to research the European model, they may notice a work effort and system that seems to be producing champions.
     
  18. Number1Coach

    Number1Coach Banned

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    Maybe someone can help me to understand how the USTA has a Stanford grad running the program and a lot of other "very" educated coaches who have all played tennis their whole lives, yet they have know idea what to do when it comes to developement with all their resorces $$$ .

    I am Just saying , WHO WOULD TRUST THEIR CHILD TO THAT ?
     
  19. chalkflewup

    chalkflewup Hall of Fame

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    I'm just saying...

    Did Taylor Townsend win the Junior Aussie Open using those resources? 18s Easter Bowl?

    Did young Kozlov get to the semi's of the 18s Easter Bowl using those resources?
     
  20. tennis5

    tennis5 Professional

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    I thought Kozlov was trained by his dad? Didn't he just start with the USTA?
     
  21. chalkflewup

    chalkflewup Hall of Fame

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    I think he's been there a full year. And he certainly hasn't gone backwards.
     
  22. Oscarramb

    Oscarramb New User

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    IMO its not as much of a problem and some people here think it is. The eras of domination we've had in the past are a little unrealistic to expect all the time. I think it's more of a cycle and in a few years well have our dominant players once again. And its not like the us has completely disappeared, with isner and the William sisters, especially Serena being relevant and still considered threats. I do think however that because were not the tennis powerhouse we were when the William sisters dominated women's tennis and what we were in the 80s overall interest in the US isn't as high so less kids are introduced to tennis. Its sort of a catch 22 situation but well come back eventually...
     
  23. tenniscp

    tenniscp Semi-Pro

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    In the last two big tournaments, Easter Bowl and International Springs, USTA was actually represented very well.

    Easter Bowl semifinals were, McDonald against Rubin, Halebian against Thai Kwiatkowski. All four kids are USTA. In Girls, Taylor Townsend won it. In doubles Kruger/ Halebian against Kozlov/Corinteli (all USTA). Same in girls dubs!

    In International Springs, Kozlov against Corinteli and Rubin against Kruger in singles (all Usta again), in Girls Kiick, Townsend, Scholl in semis (again all usta).

    In the clay court ITF swing in Florida, another kid that trains in Boca, Kerznerman won a tournament.

    Not really a weak showing, by any standards! Wouldn't you agree?

    It just seems that. almost in every big tournament, USTA has a lion share of players that they train make it to the final four (semis or better).
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2012
  24. tball2day

    tball2day Semi-Pro

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    ....................
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2012
  25. justinmadison

    justinmadison Semi-Pro

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    They should use that as their slogan.
     
  26. chalkflewup

    chalkflewup Hall of Fame

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    Agreed. And thanks for the clarification.
     
  27. tenniscp

    tenniscp Semi-Pro

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    Sorry, did not realize that. I was told that Kruger and McDonald are USTA, or at least are a part of their training program, as well as their traveling schedule.

    I guess I was misinformed.
     
  28. t135

    t135 Semi-Pro

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    Just reading back through this long thread. Really good ideas here. Doesn't the usta already do some of this though? I've been out of the usta loop for about 10 years.
     
  29. tennisconsultcom

    tennisconsultcom Rookie

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    All begins from an organization of a selection process. If you do not have enough talented kids, everything else does not matter. You cannot develop a star from average athlete, never. There is a main question. Then, tennis in USA is sport for middle or upper middle class, these kids are spoiled, they do not want to work hard. Parents who cannot pay huge money for a training never bring their kids to a tennis club. I remember, when I brought a very talented young kid to a famous tennis coach, he said after a work-out something like that "incredible talented kid, he has a chance, BUT his parents must be ready to spent a lot of money." Parents thought and brought him to soccer team.

    Else, many tennis coaches and tennis academies are not interested to develop pro level players or they do not know how to develop pro level players. Knowledge of modern systems of tennis development is very low. I have written many posts about that on my blog. Do not want to repeat. Just look at five years old news about junior tennis stars and ask where are they now?

    Finally, I think when will be no American players in top 20 (it will be soon) , only after that USTA or who is responsible for that, will start to think about a SYSTEM of development strong tennis players and provide a budget for that. Now, tennis industry just make a lot of money like any other profitable business, but it does not produce American tennis champions anymore.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2012
  30. BMC9670

    BMC9670 Hall of Fame

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    If and when this happens, the USTA will lose membership and lose money. Non-profit or not, they are money driven, just like any business. And they make plenty of money. If developing players does not work for them, they'll eventually get out of that business. IMO, they should focus on the growth of tennis and the tournament/competitive system, while supporting talented coaches who develop pro players. Directly developing players is incredibly inefficient for a governing body.
     
  31. MarTennis

    MarTennis Rookie

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    Rosie Bareis and Wayne Ferriera coach Mackie

    They have been working with him for at least 3 years.
     
  32. tball2day

    tball2day Semi-Pro

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    ......................
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2012
  33. chalkflewup

    chalkflewup Hall of Fame

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    They will not lose membership nor money. In fact, I suspect membership and revenues will grow over the next 5-10 years as the sport continues to grow. They will not stop developing and supporting our juniors - no chance. Our recent domination at Las Petite As and the developmental success of players like Taylor Townsend will continue to keep the initiative alive.
     
  34. BSPE84

    BSPE84 Semi-Pro

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    Another house cleaning at Carson?

    Heard from a reliable source that Carson letting some coaches go and drastically reducing the number of kids later this summer... Can anyone confirm?
     
  35. tennis5

    tennis5 Professional

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    Big house cleaning in East Coast. Got rid of most of their boys and I heard they are bringing in older girls.
     
  36. chalkflewup

    chalkflewup Hall of Fame

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    Which facility?
     
  37. BMC9670

    BMC9670 Hall of Fame

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    If they transfer some junior success into pro success, then I would agree. But if they don't produce something special, like a slam winner, or at least a perinnial top 10 to hang their hat on in the next 10-15 years, I would think the next "administration" (post Pat Mac) would have a different directive, or at least tweaked.
     
  38. chalkflewup

    chalkflewup Hall of Fame

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    IMO, the directive will always exist and I believe there will always be tweaking. IMG is tweaking right now.
     
  39. coaching32yrs

    coaching32yrs Semi-Pro

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    I would like the readers of this Board to tell me what Pat McEnroe's qualifications are to be head of USTA junior development. Who was has coached and developed? Where did he work and study the development of junior players into pros. Which people has he worked with? When? For how long? This is arguably the most important position at the USTA. As a member I would like to know this.
     
  40. willshot

    willshot Semi-Pro

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    patmac is a joke. He's just in it for the money.
     
  41. WARPWOODIE

    WARPWOODIE Rookie

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    ^^^totally agree with you!
     
  42. chalkflewup

    chalkflewup Hall of Fame

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    He was not hired to be a coach.
     
  43. BMC9670

    BMC9670 Hall of Fame

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    Yes, he's the coach's boss. He's running a program/business, not coaching players.

    Look at it this way - a VP of Marketing runs a marketing department - that doesn't mean that person necessarily has direct experience as a graphic designer, web developer, PR expert, photographer, etc. He is their boss. He understands the big picture. He is responsible for hiring and managing a team to produce results. If the team does not produce results... well, he's out of a job. Or more realistically, he fires the team.

    Let's see what happens....
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2012
  44. t135

    t135 Semi-Pro

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    After reading most of this thread, it appears that the USTA really just needs to hire their new coaches and program manager off an Internet discussion board. It's where all the coaching and player development experts really are.
     
  45. tennis5

    tennis5 Professional

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    Billie Jean King National Tennis Center
     
  46. chalkflewup

    chalkflewup Hall of Fame

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    Really? I thought all the positions were going to be assigned over to Wayne Bryan.

    Right or wrong, niche forums like this are generally ignored by the subject matter experts. It's still a good place to exchange ideas.
     
  47. jigglypuff

    jigglypuff Rookie

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    Okay then, what experience does he have running a program or business...
     
  48. BMC9670

    BMC9670 Hall of Fame

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    He's qualified to run a tennis program because he has a lifetime of tennis experience. He's been in high level tennis his whole life, juniors, pro, he's won at majors, he's been around the media and personalities (his bro), and on and on. So, sure he's qualified to run a high level tennis program (I'll backpedal on business, but I don't think he's in charge of the bottom line of the USTA).

    Now, I'm not advocating one way or the other for him, just saying that he does know tennis and is ensconced in the tennis world.
     
  49. coaching32yrs

    coaching32yrs Semi-Pro

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    Did anyone happen to see the training schedule the USTA has Christina McHale on? I'd like to hear your thoughts on it.
    My thinking is that, if true, the USTA is going to ruin this promising player. She is training 7-8 hours a day. 2 fitness workouts a day, and 2 tennis workouts. Way too much. They have ruined other promising players with this kind of schedule.
     
  50. chalkflewup

    chalkflewup Hall of Fame

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    Do they work her hard? I sure hope so. Eight hours of rigorous training every day? My thoughts are that I don't believe it for a second.

    By the way, great win over Wozniacki today in 3 sets. Must've been fit to beat CW in 3 sets.
     

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