usta ratings.....men vs women

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by jbleiman, Jan 8, 2010.

  1. jbleiman

    jbleiman Rookie

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    say a man is playing a woman... roughly equal skill level...lets say man wins 7-6,7-5...woman is rated 4.5...what should the man's usta raking be...4.0 ??
     
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  2. jrod

    jrod Hall of Fame

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    They say it's about a 0.5 pt difference, on average. Of course one size doesn't fit all so take it for what it's worth....
     
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  3. treo

    treo Rookie

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    1-2 point difference with 1.5 being average. 3.5 male can beat a 5.0 female. 3.5M beating 5.5F would be difficult, 4.5F would be routine.
     
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  4. jrod

    jrod Hall of Fame

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    This is utter nonsense. You are so far off here it's not even funny.
     
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  5. SlapShot

    SlapShot Hall of Fame

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    Agreed. There is no way in he|l that a 3.5M is going to be able to even beat a 4.5F, much less a 5.0F.
     
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  6. amarone

    amarone Semi-Pro

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    While he is way off, when I was a 3.5 and my wife 4.5, I beat her comfortably - I never lost. However, I was very close to 4.0 (subsequently getting there), and she hovered around the 4.0/4.5 boundary, going up and down several times. Based on this, I would say that the gap is approaching a full point. Maybe 0.8 - 0.9.
     
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  7. jrod

    jrod Hall of Fame

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    Not in my neck of the woods. There is no way a 3.5M would ever take any of the women ranked 4.5. The 4.5F are way too consistent and the 3.5M would simply lose based on UEs.

    The average difference is about 0.5 points. This has been discussed many times, in many places. There are always exceptions and anecdotal stories, but the average probably applies to the majority of players.
     
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  8. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

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    Bingo. Gap is 0.8. Observation based on numerous data points.

    Of course this is the gap between dynamic ratings. Which USTA does not publish. So makes is hard to predict.

    For in OP example, woman is rated 4.5, but...

    * She could be a strong 4.5 (eg dynamic rating 4.4), in which case the man would be around 3.6 dynamic = 4.0 USTA (weak 4.0)

    * Or, she could be a weak 4.5 (eg dynamic rating 4.1), in which case the man would be around 3.3 dynamic = 3.5 USTA (above average 3.5)
     
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  9. burosky

    burosky Professional

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    I played a 5.5 woman one time and beat her easily. Therefore, any 4.5 guy can beat any 5.5 woman easily.

    Sad to say but there are people who tend to think this way.
     
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  10. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

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    Well... strong 3.5 M beats weak 4.5 F. At least here in Norcal. But average 3.5 M loses to average 4.5 W. Also, weak 4.0 M loses to strong 4.5 F.

    It's all about the dynamic ratings which of course are not published...
     
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  11. jrod

    jrod Hall of Fame

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    It just goes to show you how much variation there is in a given level then. I know of several 3.5M that were recently bumped to 4.0 and none of them are consistent enough to hang with the 4.5F singles players. My observation is they simply lack the consistency and donate a hefty % of points.
     
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  12. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

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    Yup I agree... there is a .5 range of variation within each level and that is huge - even according to USTA that means that a strong person in a level could bagel or breadstick a weak person within that same level.

    Throw in the fact that ratings don't differentiate between dubs and singles, and you're going to get results that are all over the place.
     
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  13. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    The .8 variation could be close when comparing lower levels.
    Seems most 5.5 Mens (Div1 singles) would have little trouble handling all except the top 4 female PRO's.
    As a top 3.5 with a huge serve and great quickness and change of direction, I regularly hit with several 6.0 or A/Open women, about even if I don't use my serves or drop/angles. They'd pout, stop the point, and threaten not to hit with me if I adopted pure "win" tactics.
    All 3.5's are not exactly the same, some get to upper 5 levels within a year (not me), while others stay 3.5's the following year.
     
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  14. Panic492

    Panic492 Rookie

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    I am a 4.0, I have played 3 different 4.5 women (including one that played D1 college 7-8 years ago) and have won all in straight sets fairly easily. I would say 1.0 would be the difference-about. There is always variability.
     
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  15. ALten1

    ALten1 Rookie

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    Several people in another thread(s) have said they believe the difference is greater the higher you get. I am leaning toward that assessment.
    3.0m=3.5w
    4.0m=5.0w
     
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  16. michael_1265

    michael_1265 Professional

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    There are too many variables involved. I am a strong 3.0, and I've played a couple of higher-rated women who are also 10-15 years younger than me. One is a 4.0 with forcing shots who I play close but lose to, and the other is a wonderfully quick, athletic 4.0 (I think she will be 4.5 next year) who I play close in the first set, and then she wears me down and beats me handily in the 2nd. On the flipside, I know a 4.5 women I could likely beat because she lacks mobility. Keep it away from her cannon flat forehand, and I think I could make her miserable. I am a doubles specialist, but I think if I concentrated on singles, my record would be better against the 4.0s above. It's really tough to generalize, because so much is based on fitness, how hard you hit the ball, and whether you play a lot of singles or doubles. Ratings don't account for those factors.
     
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  17. michael_1265

    michael_1265 Professional

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    I agree that the difference can be large. I remember reading an interview with Chris Evert, and she said that when she was a top pro, her brother could still beat her.
     
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  18. raiden031

    raiden031 Legend

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    So now you're a 3.5? And you can compete with a 6.0 woman without using your serves and angles, but if you use them, what you win easily? Purely ludicrous.

    Why do I find myself so frequently questioning posts of yours?
     
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  19. raiden031

    raiden031 Legend

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    Did you just pull this straight outta your ass or somethin?

    This sounds more reasonable. I would say the difference within the USTA-league ratings is closer to 0.5, but rises as levels increase.

    A strong 3.5M could be 3.45 and a weak 4.5F could be 4.05. That right there is a .06 difference, not a 1.0 difference.
     
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  20. ALten1

    ALten1 Rookie

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    As an above average 3.5 male. I guess I have never seen a true 4.5 woman play.I have played with and watched the 4.0 women play and I don't have a lot to worry about. Now a 6.0 woman on the other hand would probably spank me rather easily. I would have to imagine her placement would be exceptional, making me span the whole court with good line shots where as her side of the court would be 3 to 4 feet narrower because of my shots not as accurate.
     
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  21. TennisPassion5

    TennisPassion5 Rookie

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    So in reality, what would Serena be? Around a 6.0, right?
     
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  22. equinox

    equinox Hall of Fame

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    The difference is 1.0 ntrp.

    It's the reason why there no open singles events for both sexes participation.
     
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  23. raiden031

    raiden031 Legend

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    No the reason they don't compete together is because of sexism...women are afraid of being sexually harassed by their male opponents and males are afraid of "losing to a girl".
     
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  24. equinox

    equinox Hall of Fame

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    The gap widens the higher you go on ntrp.
    A 5.5 would beat serena fairly easily. I know, seen the practice partners they bring in for the aussie open. solid state (6+) / grade one (5.5+) local pennant players and they could spank these girls at will. no contest.

    Serena might be able to beat tommy tu on a good bad. ;)
     
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  25. 86golf

    86golf Semi-Pro

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    Around here, if you are just hitting it is about a .5 difference. Once you start serving the gap widens a little more. Our ladies sandbag like crazy though.
     
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  26. Topaz

    Topaz Legend

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    Quoted for truth.
     
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