USTA Restructuring leagues in 2013 ?

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by atatu, May 4, 2011.

  1. atatu

    atatu Hall of Fame

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    Has anyone else heard that the USTA may be restructuring league play for 2013 to be broken down more among age groups ?
     
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  2. esgee48

    esgee48 Hall of Fame

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    Not a very good idea. The USTA already has Seniors and Super Senior groupings. I can't imagine groups at 18-30, 30+ to 40 etc. as the NTRP variability is too high. Don't think a 3.5 would have a chance against a 4.0 or a 4.5 if the person was forced into 30+ to 40 grouping.
     
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  3. gould2000

    gould2000 New User

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    I can comment on a little bit from a recent league meeting. I believe there will be a split at 40yrs old. so, 18-39 then 40-(not sure)
     
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  4. gould2000

    gould2000 New User

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    But, I think it will still be NTRP within the age groups.
     
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  5. Renfrow

    Renfrow New User

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    I think this isn't necessary. Your NTRP rating is based on your ability. Age factors in to your ability naturally. I always find it very insulting when I win a match against someone who is older than I and they make comments about how much younger I am. It is flawed logic.
     
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  6. ian2

    ian2 Semi-Pro

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    well said!
     
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  7. eliza

    eliza Guest

    UhOh, are you copying (again) Europeans? We had age groups LEAGUES since I can remember...Hello!!!!!!
     
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  8. eliza

    eliza Guest

    In the new system you will not experience any insults.....:)
     
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  9. J_R_B

    J_R_B Hall of Fame

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    This isn't a very good solution, IMO. In a lot of places, leagues are already very thin, and now they are going to add an age dimension to the league registration? They will struggle to field leagues in a lot of places under this system.

    IMO, they need to refine the self-rating questionnaire so that you don't have 5.0 level juniors/HS kids eligible for 3.5. If you get the rating right, then age is irrelevant.
     
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  10. goober

    goober Legend

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    Is this going to be NTRP with age groups divisions or pure age groups without regard to NTRP?
     
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  11. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    Most everyone I play is over 40 anyway.

    On my current team, I think everyone is over 40. Only a few are under 50.

    That's just going by the number of wrinkles per square inch. Age is not the sort of thing we discuss . . .
     
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  12. jdubbs

    jdubbs Hall of Fame

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    Yeah, I don't think we really need this. I like playing guys younger than me, they may move better, but I'm more clever.

    It's funny playing the older guys and everyone thinks I'm 10 years younger than I am. One guy even asked where I went to college...and I'm nearly 40.

    But I think the NTRP is fine the way it is. I don't want to play a bunch of old guy/hackers just because I'm in their age group.
     
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  13. JTathlete

    JTathlete Rookie

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    Did they also mention about restructuring the entry fees.. maybe like shrinking them by 25%?
     
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  14. Cereal68

    Cereal68 New User

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    They'll be 18+, 40+, 55+ and 75+ beginning fall 2012 (2013 league season)
     
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  15. beernutz

    beernutz Hall of Fame

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    I am kind of in the same boat except my boat is 12 years older than yours. I look to some people like I'm in my 30's but I'm 52. I played seniors for the first time this fall and got (mostly) joking comments in every match I was in about being a ringer, blah, blah.

    The flip side is that in regular league I played a 23 year old former student of mine recently so I spotted him 29 years. Luckily for me he was playing up and it wasn't much of a contest.

    Like you, I prefer playing younger guys and also playing singles because I like to run and I like the challenge. I may have lost a step or two but I try to make up for that by being crafty and I am not above using ugly, but legal, shots to win points.

    I agree with you that I think the NTRP is fine for the most part and breaking it up by age groups is not a good idea although I doubt that matters to the USTA.
     
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  16. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

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    Perhaps they just intend to add a 40+ league (in addition to the existing adult and senior leagues)?

    In which case, I think it's a good idea. Adult league gives people an opportunity to play across all age groups, 50+ players already have an additional seniors' league that they can take advantage of, so why not have a 40+ league that runs in parallel with the 50+ league. As long as there are enough interested 40+ players to make a go of it, I don't see any down side.
     
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  17. atatu

    atatu Hall of Fame

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    Yes, and I'll be 50 in 2012, so I have one year to play the 50's then it's back to the 40 and over league.
     
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  18. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

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    Probably be able to play down in younger age groups but not up.
     
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  19. heninfan99

    heninfan99 Legend

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    I think they see that most (not all) people over 40 fear playing singles. For me it's tricky to convince people to play singles who are 35....
    I don't think there will be 18-39. It will remain an open age league but with the additional over 40.

     
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  20. North

    North Professional

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    I also look a lot younger than my 55 years and play singles almost exclusively. I wind up playing people 15+ years younger than me a LOT, including college students. Besides the fact that most other women around my age don't seem to want to play singles, I really enjoy the pace of much younger players and like to match my come-to-the-net style (S&V anyone? :)) with younger players.

    The much younger players are clearly (though, surprisingly, not always) faster than me but I am pretty slender and do a lot of cross-training so I am faster than most others my own age down to about 10 years younger than me, and I can run all day.
     
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  21. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    It's time for serious older players who want to play the best competition regardless of age to start their own league that doesn't discriminate against younger players. The USTA isn't a monopoly on team/tournament tennis. The only reason I'm a member of the USTA (formerly the USLTA), is to have access to organized competition. Further subdividing the competition makes my USTA membership all the less valuable!
     
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  22. polski

    polski Semi-Pro

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    I'd rather they just adjusted seniors & super-seniors down & leave the three classifications:

    Adult: 18+
    Senior: 45+
    Super Senior: 60+

    Is "average" athleticism that much different between a 60 year old and a 70 year old?
     
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  23. spot

    spot Hall of Fame

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    I do wonder if USTA will eventually follow the ALTA model and go to 5 lines of doubles. It seems like its much easier to put teams together and not have to worry about having players who both want to play singles and want to play doubles. And then just leave the singles up to the flex leagues.
     
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  24. cknobman

    cknobman Legend

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    You sound so sure like its already a done deal. Any source/reference to your claim?
     
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  25. 10sjunkie

    10sjunkie New User

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    It is a done deal. Current leagues are already divided by age...Adult is 18+, Senior is 50+ and Super Senior is 60+. They are only moving the age minimums down and re-naming the leagues. They will now be 18+, 40+ and 55+. Southern Section will still have a 70+ league as well. NTRP ratings will still be used, i. e. 18+ 3.0, 18+ 3.5, etc.
     
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  26. spot

    spot Hall of Fame

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    40 just seems like a very odd cutoff. I guess thats because the mens teams and women's teams in our circle of friends span this easily and its never been an issue at all. (And of course we wouldn't be prohibited from still playing together in an 18+ league) I guess I'm just a little surprised that 40 is considered a dividing line unless its also followed up with some rules changes (e.g. 5 lines of doubles and no singles).
     
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  27. OrangePower

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    I hope you're right - that sound great (from my perspective - early 40s). Most of the guys on my adult team are in the 40-60 age range. So we get to play together during the adult season, but then during the senior season the "young guys" (40-50) can't play. Having the cutoff be 40+ will allow us all to play during the "senior" season also.

    And about 40 being the cutoff; it makes sense to me based on what I see (at least in my area). There seem to be a lot of players 40+, but not that many 18-40. Probably because at 18-40 folks have other priorities (kids, career, etc), but then later in life when the career is more stable and the kids older, then there is more time for tennis. Obviously this is a generalization but I and many others I know all fell into this pattern: played in HS, gave up tennis for a long time, started playing again mid to late 30s.

    So bottom line is, there are enough 40+ players to make a second league (in addition to adult) viable. 40-50 players benefit by now being able to participate in a second league season, and USTA benefits by the added league fees this will generate.
     
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  28. cknobman

    cknobman Legend

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    A google search turned up the following:

    pdf of USTA restructuring proposals/considerations:
    https://teamspace.usta.com/sites/committees/National%20Committee%20Documents/League%20Committee/USTA%20League%20Presentation%2010%20SAMC.pdf

    pdf of colorado usta league changes (specifically sites fall 2012 as start of 40+ league)
    http://www.coloradotennis.com/cta/adults/pdf/2011 Important Changes.pdf

    So it does appear to be something that is going to happen. Good news is that rules will appear to still allow older players to play (down) with the younger players (just because your 40+ doesnt mean you cant play 18+)
     
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  29. Jim A

    Jim A Professional

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    I'm probably in the minority but being a 40 year old singles (preference) player at 3.5, I don't feel overwhelmed out there against younger players. If I do its due to my current lack of physical fitness. If they are better they are better, typically its more consistent of a better backhand but I'm rarely knocked off the court.

    Of course at 3.5 I don't think a 40+ age division would change the rosters that much. My former team would lose 2 players tops
     
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  30. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Heck yes! Need Super Duper Seniors for the over 74. Heard this argument for years that they cannot compete with 60 yo.
     
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  31. Matt H.

    Matt H. Professional

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    If you took the survey last year and paid attention to the questions they were asking...you could see this was coming.

    In my opinion, i think 40 is too young. 45 would be better.
     
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  32. cknobman

    cknobman Legend

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    I agree with you. I wont be playing seniors at 40 (which is not that far off for me).
     
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  33. Vik

    Vik Rookie

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    Well, for tournaments 35 is considered seniors.

    I do like that they will be adding another doubles line to 5.0.
     
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  34. goober

    goober Legend

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    The senior division runs during the same time as our adult leagues. My whole team is over 40 except one guy. Having a seperate 40+ division running concurrently with the adult league would make you have to decide which one you want to play unless you want to play in both divisions at the same time which would be too big of a commitment for a lot of people. I think it would have an effect of diluting the regular adult league competition in our area because from what I can see, there is a large percentage of adult league players- possibly a majority that are over 40.
     
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  35. OrangePower

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    Ah I see. All comes down to the timing of the leagues then. In my area the senior leagues and adult leagues are at different times of the year. So adding another 40+ "senior" league creates more opportunities for people to play league. But I can see the problem in areas where the leagues overlap calendar wise.
     
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  36. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Our problem will be too many teams and too few courts available. Non-league playing members are getting bumped from M-F during primetime.
     
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  37. OrangePower

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    My suggestion for that - get rid of all Mixed leagues to make room for more real tennis :) :)
     
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  38. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Will not work at all. Mxd is played here during the indoors season, opposite regular league play. Combo is indoors too.
     
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  39. tennis_tater

    tennis_tater Semi-Pro

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    Will the 40+ league be 3 doubles lines only like the seniors is today, or will it be 5 lines, 2 singles/3 dubs?
     
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  40. polski

    polski Semi-Pro

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    I know nothing about it, but I would want it to be best of 3 with 1 singles & 2 doubles matches and teams max at 10 players. In my area, this would allow for more teams. We usually only have 2 4.5 teams & 3 or 4 4.0 teams. Not much of a variety.
     
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  41. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

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    This would be an incredibly stupid idea. You would be breaking most existing teams in half. You would be cutting the number of people in a league and so the opportunity for a good competitive match in half. They already have a seniors NTRP league. Why mess up the regular NTRP league?
    The only possible way to save it would be to allow a person to play both an under 40 and over 40 league at the same time. You might have enough players then to have a reasonable league with enough teams.
     
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  42. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Every player I know plays both if possible. May reduce the number of regular adult teams.
     
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  43. HookEmJeff

    HookEmJeff Semi-Pro

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    I wonder if the USTA will also put in a rule that will eliminate doubling up at Section Championships (i.e. - players participating in multiple divisions)?

    Right now those age groups both fit under the "adult category" ...until 50.

    I'm really curious to see how USTA Sections will handle their year-end league championships with this setup, especially mixed.

    Can you imagine a 4.0 42-year old player playing on both 7.0 and 8.0 teams at BOTH the 18+ and 40+ levels...and advancing to the Section championships for all these teams?

    You literally would have a guy who could be on four teams at one tournament. Not that anyone would literally be able to stand up and play four matches a day effectively for three days, much less be scheduled...but I know some people would try it. What a scheduling nightmare.

    I think this might end up dividing up section championships into 0's and .5's, and, at the very least, or effectively creating another Adult event and Mixed event possibly (or two for larger Sections).

    It's great locally for participation...not so much though at Section championship levels.

    Jeff
     
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  44. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Had this happen and when it was clear the regular team would not advance at Sectionals, we concentrated on Seniors. Both teams were scheduled to play at the same time, needed 14 players for both teams. Imagine how many are needed for 4 teams.
     
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  45. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    ?!

    J
     
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  46. cknobman

    cknobman Legend

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    I dont think it would be that dramatic because everyone has a choice of which league they wish to play in.

    The changes only mean that someone who is 40+ now has the OPTION to play in a senior league and not a REQUIREMENT. I know many players that would pass on the senior league at 40.
     
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  47. catfish

    catfish Semi-Pro

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    Exactly. If the Masters League is added, it will simply be another league option for players over 40 but under 55. They can still play Adult league if they want.
     
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  48. bruintennis

    bruintennis Semi-Pro

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    I think adding leagues is a good idea. It seems like the USTA has been doing this for a while. They added senior mixed doubles leagues. I think within the last few years. Adding a 40+ league (whether is single/doubles or just doubles) is good. It give people who like to play a lot of tennis more choices. I'm all for it.

    Here in Southern Cal, we have a fall doubles league (a SCTA only league) where it's 3 lines of doubles. There's local leagues and a sectional then it's finished.
     
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  49. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

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    My thought was that 1/2 would want to play 40+ and 1/2 would be under 40 or would want to play under 40. So, existing teams break up. You now only have half the people in a league. If you are in an area where there are plenty of people that would be OK. If you are in a place where there aren't a whole lot of people playing, it could mean both leagues don't have enough players to make a decent league.
    Right now, seniors is a different season than regular USTA here. If you have to choose between 40- and 40+, you might not have enough players to even have either league be functional, especially at 4.5 and 5.0.
     
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  50. kylebarendrick

    kylebarendrick Professional

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    It would be a mistake to run the adult (18+) and the 40+ league concurrently, since a lot of 40+ players are needed for both leagues. The sections will need to account for the new classifications in their calendars for this to work.
     
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