Venus', Serena's, and Roddick's racquets.

Discussion in 'Pros' Racquets and Gear' started by johncauthen, Jan 22, 2006.

  1. PM_

    PM_ Professional

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    I don't know who's crazier, johncauthen-you or me for believing you.
    But I'll bite...

    A couple questions:
    1. You keep referring the ideal placement of lead is at "the top of the handle". Do you mean top "half" of the handle as your pics suggest, and not into the throat?
    2. In the photo where you attach/tape the sheet lead weight: Wouldn't adding a weight to just one side of the handle affect balance (not to mention grip)? To be consistent, I'm guessing you'd have to grip the same side for each stroke.

    I suppose the sheet lead is more economical/space efficient. Please clarify these issues.


    I'm getting a feel at the direction your message is leading. If this is all so true, (and it DOES make alot of sense), then at least a handful of players must be privy to this info. And Roddick of all of them: how could he not know this? You say this has been occuring since 1989 (is that right?), then his previous PDs must also have been injected with this "new concept" of flawed frame. Then why all of a sudden-now at this AO is this subject being brought up and his racquet scrutinized?

    This kind of info would be hard to contain and it's extremely uncomfortable to think it was withheld for so long. Did Pete Sampras know? If he did, why did he keep his mouth shut even after his retirement. No doubt some potential profits were forfeited.
     
  2. TennisAsAlways

    TennisAsAlways Professional

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    PM, about your questioning as to why is it that some pro players don't know about the "industry insider-manipulations" (or even just "plain physics" and "techy tweaks" I'll add to make a point), I'm sure a lot of them are't tech savvy people, especially on the womens side and so they are unaware of such things.(It's not that I'm a sexist, but it just seems that way. From my observations, females aren't as into the equipment aspect of the sport as much as guys are in general. Some females on this board have even jokingly admitted that.) Heck, some of the pros probably don't even know about sweet spot locations and the physics behind it. Those I speak of probably do hit the sweet spot(s) often times but I'm just saying that they probably just know where to hit the ball to make things "feel" right rather than know why the sweet spot gives it that feel. They ("some" of the pros) probably don't even know the difference between the different sweet spots. They just know how to "play" very well.

    Pete Sampras, on the other hand, definitely has a deep understanding of equipment. He is a technician...that is, his serve & volley tennis style and touch finesse makes him a "technical player"(of course the guy has power too!)..and also, he literally is a "technician" or "he's technical" as in equipment oriented because of all of his attention to detail on his physcial equipment. Pete's a very smart guy.

    Federer seems like a well-rounded guy as well. It wouldn't be surprising to me if I were to find out that Fed overwatches his equipment customization -- not just the regular "this is how I like my tension and swing weight" but I'm talking about if Fed were to have any hands on involvement on the physical dynamic properties of his frames. Of course he could be like "most" other pros and leave the non-game strategy matters to his people and so it may be that Fed doesn't actually perform hands on work on his frames or it may be that he doesn't have first hand knowledge about what's being done to his frames(I assume most pros to be this way). It "could" be that Fed's people just happened to have arranged for him to have the most "ideal" setup -- much like what Sampras had -- and so that could have been how he ended up with one of the "ideal" types of frame.

    Roddick as you mentioned, doesn't seem like a technically inclined person. I wouldn't even think that he knows the difference between the terms "moment of inertia" and "moment force". I'm not saying that I think he probably doesn't know the difference betweem swing weight and balance point but rather, I'm saying he probably isn't familiar with the terms that "technical" people use. Andy seems like a guy who would just put his money out there and lets "his people" or "crew" handle everything. I don't think he's a guy that researches the science of the game and beam dynamics. Do I think he knows about some science in the sport of tennis?.........why yes. Of course his coaches and or trainers had to teach him some mechanics and techniques in order for him to have developed his playing form. Although that aspect is not much of a "technical science" as much as it is with equipment, it still is science, so yes , I do think Andy knows about "some" science dealing with tennis. Equipment-wise, I doubt he knows much. Sort of like the movie "Blade" and other movies with the similar hero role as the Blade character. There's the guy (the Hero) that just does the job and he always has a techy handling all the gadgets for him. James Bond is another good example.(that came up in my mind, because it was you PM, I believe who mocked John Cauthen calling him Bond) Batman should be excluded because he makes his own stuff. Anyways, Roddick probably has things on his mind such as game strategy, tactics, which venues to appear at, side jobs (commercials), partying, his celebraity life, women.....those kinds of things. I doubt he researches physics and engineering books.
     
  3. TennisAsAlways

    TennisAsAlways Professional

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    ...............................
     
  4. Onion

    Onion New User

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    That's funny. If a player looks smart, he must know about this mythical technical aspect of the secret weighting system.

    If the player looks not so smart or happens to be a woman, they're oblivious to racquet weighting and balance.

    This thread gets stupider by the post. :rolleyes:

    BTW, did anyone see how the industry did in Clijsters by giving her the wrong shoes to play in? They again did it to Henin when they made her eat something that made her retire in the finals. Damn those insiders, they have their hands into everything! :evil:
     
  5. TennisAsAlways

    TennisAsAlways Professional

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    Who ever stated that? I don't recall anything like that posted anywhere above. Perhaps your reading comprehension is poor?

    Maybe you should go elsewhere?

    BTW, you are right that the thread gets stupider by the post......that is, as long as you keep posting your non-insightful comments this thread does looks stupider.

    Did I ever point out which players knew which things and which players didn't? I think not. I have never pointed out who knows what.

    You have nothing to give or anything to point out! PM did bash (slightly or ever so slighty) some people here but he was just confused and wanted to raise a few questions for clarification. His frustration(s) brought up more "insightful" points, unlike your useless criticism that no one cares about.
     
  6. J.Alexander

    J.Alexander New User

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    Head LM Prestige

    Dear, Anybody who knows about this lead thing,

    I have a LiquidMetal Prestige MidPlus, 98 sq. in. and I was wondering how much lead do I need?

    I was also wondering If I could use lead tape to do this?
     
  7. TennisAsAlways

    TennisAsAlways Professional

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    I don't think there is just "one" thing.

    You say that you don't know how much lead you need? I wouldn't know how much you need either. Swing weight is a personal preference type of thing. You need to keep experimenting to find the SW that's effective yet enough so that you can control.

    Now if you are asking, "How do I cuctomize my frame to attain more "polar" inertia?" then I can help you. This would be fine if you can handle an increase of a few Kgms of SW.

    Here's what to do: Lead up about 40-45 grams of lead at the top of the handle. The starting point of the location of the mass should be about 3 1/2" from the HEAD logo on the shaft towards the endcapp. The weight should be spread up all the way and taper up to just the bottom of the HEAD logo, where the shaft begins to taper. So the weight should be about 3 1/2" long. Read the thread. Pics are available.
     
  8. Onion

    Onion New User

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    You said those things. Go read your post again. I'll quote a couple things for you.
    Professional women tennis players don't know the technical aspect of it according to you. Actually you said they are not tech savy and "unaware of such things". How do you know? Do you personally know the women on the tour? Have they told you they don't know about racquet technology? Do you have anything to substantiate your claims?
    So Sampras & Federer are in the know, but Roddick is not because of what you see of them and assume? Hell, according to you Roddick isn't even the "brightest guy". What led you to that statement? Where again is your proof? Has Pete or Roger called you and validated their racquet wisdom with you? Did Andy call and fail the test?

    These are the generalizations YOU made, not me. My reading comprehension is very good, and it was you sir that has made these claims of pro players you do not know and have submitted no proof of your claims.

    Then you go off make comparisons to Whistler in the Blade movies or Q for James Bond! Now players are just the end users and these racquet genius' are the brains behind the tennis operation. :rolleyes:
     
  9. johncauthen

    johncauthen Semi-Pro

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    Yes, my previous post was the anwwer to your question. But I had already planned to post it, so it was also generic. All I do to frames nowadays is adjust the length of the head by how I string it, and I add the pictured weight, which is precisely shaped for best feel. I've tried adding and taking weight out of frames before, and sanding on them, but every frame is designed to be what it is. It's hard to change part of a frame without throwing it all out of kilter.

    That is true with two exceptions. One is that you can adjust the length of the head to fine tune the racquet. The second is, where I add weight is the "dynamic center" of the racquet. All good racquets are designed around that dynamic center, so you can add weight there without messing up the design of the racquet.

    Don't take weight out of the handle of the Pro Staff 85. It won't feel better.

    Recently, I made the weights in lengths from 3 1/2 inches long to 4 5/8 inches. Last spring, I discovered a tapered shape was the right shape. I have stayed around 45 grams for a long time, but last winter it was 61 grams. When I get the weight exactly right, and it works on every racquet, I will sell them.
     
  10. johncauthen

    johncauthen Semi-Pro

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    In 1992 Courier, Edberg, and Sampras were in the quarterfinals of Wimbledon, all using the same racquet. Courier's apartment at Wimbledon, where he kept his racquets was broken into, but the thief was caught before he stole anything. The only valuables Courier had there were his racquets and his bike.

    One racquet was winning everything and no one could buy it. It wasn't being marketed. Not only that, they wanted to take it away from the three players who had it. The direct approach to taking it away: robbery, didn't work; so a system was set up where the ATP handled all the player's racquets, supposedly stringing them everyday. In that way, the ATP handled all the top player's racquets and they could change a player's racquet.

    They changed Courier's racquets. A few years after he fell out of the top 20 he did notice, and Wilson admitted they changed his racquets, but wouldn't give him back his old racquets. Someone had tried to steal them in 1992. Was this a tennis insider lurking in Courier's apartment? Either the thief was trying to steal his racquets, or his bike.

    After Roddick beat Sampras at the US Open, as if Sampras wasn't on the court, they changed Roddick's racquets. He didn't notice, but everyone started to say Roddick wasn't reaching his potential, which was not fair to Roddick, since they had changed his racquets, but he didn't notice.

    They tried to change Sampras' racquets, because they didn't like these racquets, but it was written in Tennis Magazine that Sampras could tell when they changed them by one gram. Courier couldn't and Roddick couldn't tell.

    Lindsay Davenport has these racquets and she can tell when they change her racquets. The Williams sisters couldn't tell.

    A woman in the shop today said, "I can't volley anymore with this racquet. It needs restringing." Her husband said she was crazy, it didn't need restringing because the string wasn't broken. I looked at it and swung it. The head had become compressed, which threw the balance off, and sure enough it was hard to volley with it. I explained to him why she needed it restrung. She could tell; but he couldn't. I wish I had a girl like that. My girlfriend is always telling me I'm crazy for noticing things. Her husband thought she was crazy, and I defened her. She was right. I fixed the racquet when I strung it, and made it volley better than ever by adjusting the head length.

    After Safin beat Sampras like Sampras wasn't on the court when Safin won the US Open, they chagned Safin's racquets, but he couldn't tell.

    What sport can thrive if they undercut their top stars and have people saying bad things about them like they are saying about Roddick and Safin?

    But with the good racquets at that US Open Roddick beat Hewitt, the best mover in the game, hitting clean winner after clean winner. When a player overcomes the game, what do you do?

    I would let it happen. They changed the racquets so Roddick and Safin wouldn't be as good. Now people are talking bad about Roddick and Safin.
     
  11. wistfulvista

    wistfulvista Guest

    You fellas have way too much time on your hands...but I like it. I'm still using the old 5.2 purple Hammmer, and I've never found anything better. I do hear good things about the nTour. What are supposedly some of the better frames today? My old wood Maxply ain't happenin'.
     
  12. lefty10spro

    lefty10spro Semi-Pro

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    Please - I am a long time tennis pro and racket technician. I have 25 years of experience. Ignore all this garbage that John is spouting. Would take me a month and an entire novel to point out all the ridiculous errors. He seems to be writing fiction and I think he knows it.
     
  13. aznkb888

    aznkb888 New User

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    "After Roddick beat Sampras at the US Open, as if Sampras wasn't on the court, they changed Roddick's racquets. "

    last time I checked, Sampras basically kicked Roddick's arse the one and only time they played at the US Open...
     
  14. Onion

    Onion New User

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    This is some of the stupidest stuff I've read. Now the ATP uses theives for hire! No wonder Sampras hired Nate Ferguson. But was Nate a plant from the ATP just waiting to strike against Pete and do the old bait & switch routine on his "ideal" racquets?!? HAHAHAHAHAHA

    I can't believe anyone is still buying this line of BS from john cauthen.
     
  15. TennisAsAlways

    TennisAsAlways Professional

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    If this is all so BS, then why do you keep reading this thread? As a matter of fact, according to your profile CP, you you keep coming back to check this thread....You're reading it right at this very moment!

    Plus I'm not done yet..............
     
  16. TennisAsAlways

    TennisAsAlways Professional

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    That's what "YOU" assumed. I never made a "CLAIM"! I never said that professional women tennis players don't know the technical aspect or that they are not tech savvy! Reread my exact post. Here:
    Did I ever say, "I think Andy Roddick is not the brightest guy"? NO! I said it doesn't seem like he is. Did I ever say, "I think Pete and Roger are in the know"?...NO! I was saying that I wouldn't be surprised if they new about the technical aspects of equipment.

    I didn't make any claim! These were all speculations.

    Again, as long as you keep on posting nasty insults it is.

    You assume that everyone is buying into John's stories and so you go on mocking people. Did I ever say I that believed his stories? I'm not saying that I don't but I also never said that I did. You seem to be reacting as if I am making the claims backing up the conspiracy story. I am not. That post that I wrote to PM wasn't a claim. I wasn't even talking to you in the first place. I was speaking to him. He was wondering how Roddick or others could not know about the conspiracies. I answered back to him about things that COULD'VE been the case.....I did "not" say that they were they case. It was just converstion! I was answering it in a way like this:
    "Lets say that the story was true. Maybe Andy didn't know about the racquet change because he never deals with the equipment technicalites. He just lets other people worry about that stuff for him. The only thing he's concerned about is his techniques."
    Ok...now from that example....are you now going to say that that's my claim too??...Onion?? (THIS IS WHAT I MEANT BY SAYING YOU ASSUMED INCORRECTLY AND MISUNDERSTOOD!)
    I wasn't backing up John's story nor was I disproving it! You are the one misunderstanding everything. Why do you think I keep on saying, "I NEVER SAID THAT"? Did you think I could forget what I wrote and then claim to you that I never stated the things that you ASSUMED I wrote or meant? I was very clear on what I wrote.

    You were the one making wrong ASSUMPTIONS. You are the one with nothing to contribute to this thread. All you do is post negative remarks about some of the things that you've read in this thread. You keep coming back with nothing insightful to add. If you don't believe in some of the things that you've read or if you don't like what you are reading or disagree with it, why not state your opinion politely and then carry on and leave? All you've done is talk down on people's opinions and come back every now and again to check up on this thread.
     
  17. TennisAsAlways

    TennisAsAlways Professional

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    Thanks for your reply Mr Cauthen. Greatly appreciated.
     
  18. PM_

    PM_ Professional

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    After digesting this thread over a few times, there are many gray issues around these claims, theories, or testimonies-whatever you want to call it.
    There is NOT A DOUBT IN MY MIND that a conspiracy has been in process, presumably that started awhile ago. And it DOES make sense, the ATP, insiders of the tennis industry, and racquet manufacturing owners MUST be doing SOMETHING to invest and protect the future of the sport.
    A plausible tactic is continually raising, then diminishing racquet tech in order to cycle consistent sales (or give us hope of seeking our ‘grails’ as you could put it).

    But where I’m confused is all the black and white claims that johncauthen is suggesting. How can one or two players (such as Sampras) carry so much success without others catching on. Roddick may not be the brightest looking guy on tour but he DOES HAVE MONEY. No doubt in my mind he has techs working for him, continually searching and working on prototypes to improve his game. The world of the ATP tours is not a big one. They share the same locker rooms, eat at the same restaurants, stay at the same hotels. The camaraderie of a tennis player would be a close one and secrets such as mentioned above cannot possibly just lay dormant. One should easily be able to read the proverbial writing on the wall when a single player like Federer or Sampras dominates a field of elite athletes.

    That being said, I’ve personally experienced the “feeling of conspiracy”, for example, not being able to find a product that I found success with in the past on the shelf anymore. Or to dismay hearing it has been discontinued “due to lack of sales”. Or “the model has been upgraded” but when in reality the sequel is nowhere to nearly as superior. The Hingis’ shoe theory I can buy cos I’ve been there, done that. There’s a reason we say “They don’t make ‘em like they used to”. There must be a term for this definition of reciprocation of downgrading so only later it can be improved again, thus maintaining a consistent cycle of sales.

    But, I dunno, I just don’t know…but who does?

    (btw, much to ponder)
     
  19. TennisAsAlways

    TennisAsAlways Professional

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    Be careful PM! Onion is going to say you're full of BS now too!

    About you stating that the ATP isn't that large and that players are close to one another sharing locker rooms (and so they should have access to one another's equipement or have first hand knowledge about it etc.)..........well that I agree with you. The thing is, not every player on the ATP is a dominant player, standing out from the crowd.

    Think about Federer for example. During tournaments, there's usually a list available with the player's frame specs. etc. Fed's specs are often times not available. He "could" (Notice that I now have to bold and quote the word "could" because some people just don't seem to understand the different between a "claim" and a "hypothesis/ speculation"!) have intentionally taken extra precautions, safeguarding his equipment and choosing to not ever use the tournament tech services. Now am I saying that this is proof or evidence that Fed has a "superior" frame or that even such an "ideal" frame exists?...........No. I am simply just going along speculating with you, on your statements. (Notice what I am posting to you right now PM. This is what I think Onion didn't see. He thinks I am making claims when I in fact am not. I am just speculating things speaking in terms "if things were to be the case, then maybe this is that and that could be this"..........etc..etc.etc).
     
  20. Squid

    Squid Rookie

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    a question for john... or anyone else like mack who knows how to mod... there is not pro shop in my area that sells lead tape,(so sad) so i was wondering if there is anything i can like buy at home depot or OSH or lowes that i can buy that will be like lead tape? taht and isnt lead radioactive? wouldnt prolong exposure to lead tape since its on your racket cause like cancer or something?
     
  21. TennisAsAlways

    TennisAsAlways Professional

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    I don't know if lead on a racquet can harm you from radiation exposure but I do know that it definitely is harmful if you ingest it, inhale it's fumes, or come into direct contact with it, since it can penetrate through your skin and into your body.

    An alternative I have used in the past is tin. Some fishing tackle sinkers are made of tin and so if you can find them, use that.

    If you need thin strips of weight material as a substitute for lead "tape" then you can use aluminum as a substitute. (No not Reynolds wrap. That would be a pain to cut and paste!)
    Go to your home center (Home Depot or Lowe's: the bigs guys carry it for sure!) and at the buildiing material section you can find rolls of "aluminum tape". It should be on the same isle where they stock the roof flashing material.
    A 30-something foot roll should cost you about $5.

    The thing about that tape is that it's not as dense as lead and so you have to add more layers of it in order to achieve the same mass as lead. It's not a huge problem but just an FYI. The good thing about that stuff is that it looks a lot better that lead. You know how lead is......after it's exposed to the elements and what not it discolorates into a dark grey color. Well the aluminum maintains it's shiny color (unless it somehow corrodes).
     
  22. PurePrestige

    PurePrestige Semi-Pro

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    The previous statement about players specs, on the lists from grand slams and other tournaments does make alot of sense...we don't really get the important specs do we? Like we noticed this tournament, everyone has these green stickers in the throat for the stringing service provided, who doesn't have a green sticker??? Fed.

    I am for sure no expert on anything, but where do the lists of specs come from. Why are they measuring the weight, balance, etc. The stringers don't need the specific specs do they? Do they measure them for fun then?
    (Note: if they measure them for any specific reason i retract this...)

    Also, I mean, who's specs don't we see on the lists. Federer, Safin, Roddick, Nalbandian, Hewitt, Haas.

    However we do get...Nadal!
    I mean, the Pure Drive and Aeropro get great reviews, and if you look at junior tournaments. When I go to tournaments there are loads of Pure Drives. I guess they are just better stock frames...Nadal's frame wouldn't really require that much customization in that aspect. (Note this whole paragraph isn't really to make any point I kinda got off topic I guess but i'm leaving it here?) Oh. Also. Guessing that Nadal's frame would require less modifications, weighting, whatever you'd call it. (I think it was said 15g in top of head and 5g in handle?)
    Those specs being available, and Roddick's stringer not really disclosing any specs but saying that its not really anything special he does to his PD+, just a personal thing. I guess that he does have as in depth of additions to his racquet. I dunno.

    Oh one last thing. What I really noticed was Haas...particularly his specs are missing, along with him being known for his being hard to please with racquet specs. Things he said kinda stuck with me. He said something about how he feels he hits the ball hard but the result from his stroke isn't what he would expect. Also the main thing that stuck with me was when he said, "What the most important part of tennis, the racquet". heh. I mean he was very picky about paint on the racquets much less the specs. So I guess he may have taken a personal interest in making his racquet hit the way he wanted.....he's had a good comeback and is playing very well? Dunno if that says anything at all really yknow, just contributing.
     
  23. samster

    samster Legend

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    lead is not radioactive, it is used to shield one from radiation. what do you think they cover your private area when you are getting a chest x-ray? lead is as inert as an element gets. lead can taste kind of sweet (not that I personally tried it) thus leading to poisoning in little kids.
     
  24. jaskey

    jaskey Rookie

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    long long time ago when i couldn't find any lead tape i tried the aluminum tape. by the time i got enough weight from aluminum to have any effect the grip had become larger by 6 sizes at least. (not measured, but about. but it was thicker than any other grip i have tried thus far) i tried adding coins before and that was more effective then aluminum tapes, but it looked ridiculous and no where near comfortable. conclusion, try to get a lead tape no matter what the cost. (okay not no matter what the cost, but try to ask around and see if anyone knows where to get a lead tape from the people you play with.)
     
  25. TennisAsAlways

    TennisAsAlways Professional

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    As far as why the pros' racquets are checked out............well the officials need to check and see if the equipment is legal. As far as techs. obtaining lists of player's specs.....well some keep it on file for the records (so that they don't have to keep asking the players their specs every single time they customize or make make adjustments etc.) or some may keep the specs just for personal reference.
     
  26. TennisAsAlways

    TennisAsAlways Professional

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    Yeah well to be more reasonable in trying to understand what the OP of the post meant, I think he meant plain lead "poisoning"..that kind of harm. So according to you it doesn't emit any form of radiation. So you should be safe Mr OP. Just don't: touch the material with your bare skin too often (wear gloves if you're paranoid), melt it in a non-well ventilated area, or ingest it and you you're all good.
     
  27. TennisAsAlways

    TennisAsAlways Professional

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    Well Squid inquired about the substitution. I should have been more clear. I was suggesting that he used tin on the handle (inside of the handle) and use the aluminum tape on the hoop. People don't tend to add over an ounce of weight on the hoop and so it shouldn't be too bulky. And even if it were a bit bulky in the head, it's not like that would have any affect on your grip size.

    I personally recommend using lead (unless you can obtain denser material like uranium or plutonium....[haha, new promotional racquet tech hype....."Nano nuclear-infused frame technology"] ). I only suggested those materials to Squid because he asked for a substitute material and those were the next best things that I was able to come up with. Wait, there's one more thing: there's also stainless steel tape available. That stuff is denser than aluminum. I don't know if it's available at the home centers but you should be able to get it online. If you're thinking about ordering anything online though, you mind as well get the lead tape!
     
  28. Squid

    Squid Rookie

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    wait so if direct contact with lead can be harmfull... then how do you apply lead tape without getting it on your fingers?
     
  29. esacrown

    esacrown Guest

    John, I must admit that you have a compelling argument. I was wondering if you have any idea of what particular customizing (stringing and/or lead handle weight) can be performed on Babolat's Aeropro Drive racquets? I also noticed that your standard above the handle weight would impede the grip on a two-handers backhand. Any ideas?
     
  30. TennisAsAlways

    TennisAsAlways Professional

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    I would say "typically" holding a piece of lead is not harmful because the duration of contact with the metal is minimal. "Typically", even if your body absorbed any of the lead during that short period of time then it would not be a high amount to be of any great danger.

    Fishermen don't always wear gloves and they use lead sinkers all of the time. That's why I mentioned to you earlier to use gloves if you are going to be lead taping racquets often (like doing it for a living for example; coming in to contact with it like say 6 hours per day) or if you just want to be cautious/ paranoid.
     
  31. TennisAsAlways

    TennisAsAlways Professional

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    Lead it up inside the handle.

    This would be a "permanent-like" procedure though. Wedging lead all the way up the handle would make it difficult for it to be removed. I would recommend this only if you have already "fine-tuned" an exact prototype before, knowing the exact amount of lead to add in the exact location(s).

    Adding lead "inside" of the handle may not be working in accord to "John's method" though because the mass added on the outside of the handle results in different dynamic properties and inertia than mass added closer to the center diameter of the handle. I like adding a couple of weights inside the handle because it results in a more balanced frame as opposed to having a single weight that results in a lopsided frame.
     
  32. mutt

    mutt Rookie

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    With the success of Baghdatis this week, do you think than someone change his racquet and he don't notice it? :mrgreen:
     
  33. esacrown

    esacrown Guest

    "Adding lead "inside" of the handle may not be working in accord to "John's method" though because the mass added on the outside of the handle results in different dynamic properties and inertia than mass added closer to the center diameter of the handle."

    If that were true, what would happen to backhand shots? Would they suffer from different inertia qualities? And what about the side where the lead is? Do you have to be consistant in using the same side to hit the ball? Why not divide the weight of the lead into two equal pieces and apply it to each side of the racquet.

    Another question I have is, does it matter which racquet the lead apllies to, or can someone use the same 30.5 balance point with a roughtly 350 gram racquet
     
  34. TennisAsAlways

    TennisAsAlways Professional

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    As to why John doesn't use two separate lighter weights?...I myself am wondering why he doesn't do so. All I know is that his "latest ideal findings" were based upon experimenting using the single weight and so placing weights at different locations could result in a different feel. Also, I'm pretty sure that even if you were able to duplicate John's weight design, -- it's exact shape, form, size, and mass -- then that wouldn't necessarily mean that your frame will have the same "ideal" dynamics and properties that John speaks of. My reason for thinking so is because after attaching weight, John also fine tunes his frames to attain his ideal feel.

    Do I think that it is possible to add two separate weights inside the handle and achieve the same type of "ideal" feel like John's?...............Yes I think it's possible. I do, however, think it would be difficult though. You would probably have to do your own tinkering, shifting the weights to different points and areas to test and see how the frame moves around. Also, since we are not John nor do some of us have any of his ideal frames, the most difficult thing would be not having a correct model to compare your prototype with. This is why I stick to my own tunings. If and when you do try to emulate John's concept, just see it as a rough emulation, as you may not know for sure that it has the "ideal" feeling according to John himself.
     
  35. BLA7625

    BLA7625 New User

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    John

    Although, this is definitely entertaining, I am not sure I believe the whole conspiracy theory, but I do have a few questions for you.

    1. How good a player are you? In no posts did I notice any reference to whether you are a 3.5, 4.5, 5.5 or open level tournament player. Different levels of players require different racquets, what may feel good to you may feel good to a similar level player but not to the player who is much better

    2. Ignoring the conspiracy prospects, and just focusing on the facts and common sense. Adding weight (no matter where) should make the racquet more stable and add power. I will give you that without even trying it. Obviously that doesn't mean that it will increase control. However, adding more weight to the handle (top or bottom) rather than the top of the racquet will make the racquet more controllable as most of the weight is in your hand or close to it. I agree with you there as well. Now, why the top of the handle and not the bottom of the handle? In theory, adding weight to the bottom of the handle will create more control.

    3. In your pictures the weight is of a triangular shape and is not entirely above the handle. Suppose that adding weight just above the handle is the best for the racquet balance and stability, wouldn't be easier to just wrap some lead tape around the racquet handle just above the grip? A thing to note here is that by wrapping this tape in exactly one place, it will make it look more like the sword in your other pictures.

    4. Finally, using this logic, in theory, adding this additional weight in this place should improve the performance of every racquetand not just O3s, Pure Drives and RDX 500. So why are you focusing on these racquets specifically?

    Thanks
     
  36. Ripper

    Ripper Hall of Fame

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    Wouldn't it be easier to just change the rules? They just have to write rules detailing exactly how a raquet should be balanced, etc. Let's use (once again) Formula 1, as an example. Modern Formula 1 is a huge contrast to what Formula 1 used to be. It could be said that, in many ways, old Formula 1 was better. And the FIA (the governing body) wants to make it closer to what it was back in those days. One thing that used to be better is that you would see a lot more passing. Modern Formula 1 cars depend way too much on aerodynamics and they need a clean flow of air to work efficiently. So, when a pilot wants to get his car closer to another car in front of him to attempt a pass, he get's into the other cars "dirty" air flow. I'm not going to get into details, but passes are rare. So, what has the FIA been doing about it? Its been changing the rules, making the wings smaller and smaller. the only reason they don't make them dissapear is because that's where the sponsors put their logos and names. So, I don't see why a governing body of any sport would need to conspire to make changes to the sport that are supposed to make it better. I'm not saying you're full of it. I'm just saying that I don't get it. But, as I've said before, maybe I just don't understand tennis very well. Specially the politics behind it.

    Ok, leaving the politics aside and going back to your technical explanations, I'm confused. I thought that the opposite weighting system (isn't this putting the weight on the handle and on the top of the loop?) was what the good raquets should have, but here it seems to me that you're saying that it's the same as concentrating the weight on the stringbridge. How can this be? Please clarify.
     
  37. TennisAsAlways

    TennisAsAlways Professional

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    Going with John's "theory", perhaps "maybe" the governing body or insiders do not want to change the rules of the game because they do not want every player to be on a level playing field with one another. "Maybe" they (the insiders) have it set up this current "theorized" way because they want certain players to be the dominant ones, that way they can manilpulate the venue dollars and plan events according to how they want (basically they wouldn't be able to control who wins but rather can calculate odds much better and plan other such things).



    John never said that weight in the top handle and top hoop are the same as weight in the bridge.
     
  38. Ripper

    Ripper Hall of Fame

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    What was he saying here

    "...Roddick, Venus, and Serena lost their games. And while using racquets with the opposite weighting theory, which can be called low-polar-moment-of-inertia, a lot of weight concentrated at the stringbridge, they couldn’t find their games."

    ???
     
  39. TennisAsAlways

    TennisAsAlways Professional

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    I don't know if this is true or not but from my interpretation of Mr Cauthen's "theory": he is saying that the insiders switched Roddick's and the Williamses' frame. They previously used the "ideal" concept, the one that's "similar to John's, with the mass on the far end of the hoop and also on the opposite end above the handle. The insiders then managed to get them to switch into using the terrible concept, with the mass concentrated at the bridge.
     
  40. TennisAsAlways

    TennisAsAlways Professional

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    Also, I think what's confusing you is when Mr Cauthen mentioned "opposite weighting theory". He didn't mean weights on opposite ends from one another, he meant " a concept that's "opposite" to the ideal concept".
     
  41. MackSamuelHustovisics

    MackSamuelHustovisics Rookie

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    Yes I believe That's what John meant as well. People who follow John's posts and understand him should be able to know what he means when he explains things that could have a double meaning.
     
  42. ashpookie

    ashpookie Rookie

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    My logic on why adding weight above the handle will aid in racquet control.

    [​IMG]

    I feel that it is my thumb and index finger doing the controlling while the other fingers are there for support. Hence, concentrating more weight to the red area (more control I feel) and making the racquet more head light (more maneuverable in theory) would add to control instead of adding weight to the green area. (my logic may be flawed lol)

    I will be adding lead tape in this manner on my Prince Turbo Shark OS.

    [​IMG]

    I posted this earlier under a different nick, which got banned because the nick was probably offensive.:neutral:
     
  43. Duzza

    Duzza Legend

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    how can you get 30 grams of lead tape on the handle without having an extremely weird looking grip, especially for 2 hand backhands?
     
  44. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    And tore up a lot of good arms. So you're the guy who I need to send the bill for all those injections to.

    Let me get this straight. The mysterious powers in tennis are trying to bring back serve and volley tennis by making the manufacturers build rackets that nobody can use?

    Man, this is better than my Evil Constortium thread.
     
  45. ashpookie

    ashpookie Rookie

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    I have a 1HBH haha. Anyway this is just an experiment to see wether it playes better.

    I don't think I could place thick strips of lead tape accurately deep inside the handle, so I'll make do with taping it outside.
     
  46. Ripper

    Ripper Hall of Fame

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    I've done this, too. As ashpookie suggested, it's no problem to us, 1 hand backhanders.
     
  47. Duzza

    Duzza Legend

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    now that you guys mention putting it on the outside i believe one of the old spanish players used to do that im sure. In one of my old tennis mags it has pics of maybe corretja?? and he has a normal grip down low but mega leaded up the top of the grip
     
  48. ashpookie

    ashpookie Rookie

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    [​IMG]

    I don't know if that's lead, BUT it's something!:mrgreen:
     
  49. johncauthen

    johncauthen Semi-Pro

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    The easiest way to add a lot of handle weight is to have one weight on the side of the grip where your thumb is, rotated toward the top, so your fingers won’t touch it on the forehand grip. It's covered by an overgrip.

    [​IMG]

    On two-handed shots, you hold onto the weight itself, which feels good.

    The secret to it is exactly the right shape, and exactly the right length. The weight on that racquet is too short. Now I have a weight that is right. I can sell it through a company I have already contacted. They are interested.

    I think Federer has better racquets than anyone, but Fischer worked on their new racquets. I saw the new Fischer Magnetic that Baghdatis uses, last week. It has a very well balanced head. They worked hard on the new racquet they are coming out with. There was a special effort made on his Magnetic racquets, and that may have contributed to Baghdatis getting to the Final. I think we are on the verge of everyone getting good racquets. Tennis will benefit. When tennis racquets are perfected, the game will be about dreams coming true, like the Australian was. It will be hard for ten players to dominate.

    That will solve the biggest problem in tennis, which is, how do you spread the only ten players that the public wants to see all over the world, all year long?

    With good racquets, there won’t be only a few players who can draw audiences. Now we have Baghdatis that no one knew a month ago. He may have won because Fischer made an effort on his racquets, so they wouldn’t get pushed out of the tennis market like Kneissl and Rossignol has been. My weighting system that I have perfected will also help give everyone good racquets. If everyone has good racquets, a lot of different players will win, like in golf, and then tournaments will be important because of their prestige and prize money, not because of name players.

    When it's right it works on all racquets. That was the goal.

    If there is a conspiracy, they will say this Iron Age technology that uses an add-on piece produced for under 20 cents is illegal. They won't say that, so there is no conspiracy.
     
  50. TennisAsAlways

    TennisAsAlways Professional

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    Mr Cauthen, let me get ask you this question:

    If you were to design a frame from scratch, where would you distribute the mass?
    Let's say that you had a 27" beam that weight "0" ounces (of course there's no such thing but I'm trying to paint a geometric abstract picture to make things easier to see). So would you have the beam balanced headlight at the 30.5cm point (from the buttcap) with "most" of the mass concentrated above the handlle area and the "second most" amount of mass at the top of the hoop? Would that be the rough concept? Thanks.
     

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