Victor Conte and doping in tennis (Lendl, Rusedski, Chang and Sharapova)

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by sonicare, Oct 20, 2012.

  1. sonicare

    sonicare Hall of Fame

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    Right,

    For those of you know don't know who Victor is.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Conte

    He is the guy who helped Marian Jones pass hundreds of tests while doping her to the gills. He is the founder of BALCO. You guys remember Balco? read here

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BALCO_Scandal

    So I am listening to a podcast and he mentions Lendl, Rusedski, Chang and Sharapova by name

    :shock:

    Go listen to this

    http://vimeo.com/51662984

    You need to watch from 8 minutes onwards to around 35 minutes.


    ************************************************************************************
    EDIT: It is at the 34.45 Mark. Some people are complaining that it is too long to watch so I decided to give the exact time. I still urge you to watch the whole thing. Its fascinating to hear about the corruption and how the positive tests are brushed under the rug. How authorities really have no interest in catching cheats and so much more
    ************************************************************************************

    I am not going to tell you at what time he mentions those tennis players by name because I want you to listen to the whole thing

    So from minutes 8 - 35

    He goes on to talk about how tests work and how athletes pass them.

    They talk about Usain Bolt, Marian jones, Barry Bonds, Lance Armstrong.

    Go watch the whole thing. It is well worth a watch

    Crazy ****
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2012
    #1
  2. Rozroz

    Rozroz Legend

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    amazing stuff! thanks!
     
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  3. RAFA2005RG

    RAFA2005RG Banned

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    Hopefully we'll get some current players named soon, I would love for the 'machines' of the tour to get their due.
     
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  4. No1e

    No1e Banned

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    So the OP changed Steffi to Sharapova. Why?
     
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  5. sonicare

    sonicare Hall of Fame

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    I listened to it last night and confused the two. He mentions Sharapova not Steffi now that I am watching it again. My bad
     
    #5
  6. tennisaddict

    tennisaddict G.O.A.T.

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    Hint : Melzer-Santiago Giraldo
     
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  7. Rozroz

    Rozroz Legend

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    he also talks about how they test for olympics and how loose that is.. crazy.
     
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  8. tennisaddict

    tennisaddict G.O.A.T.

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    You guys missed 46:30... That is HUGE.

    Thread title needs changed.
     
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  9. sonicare

    sonicare Hall of Fame

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    Yeah :( WTF man
     
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  10. RAFA2005RG

    RAFA2005RG Banned

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    I listened to most of the video, and no mention of Lendl, Rusedski, Chang or Sharapova from what I heard.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2012
    #10
  11. octogon

    octogon Semi-Pro

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    46:30 wasn't huge at all.

    They were mentioned by the radio host, not Conte. The host didn't even know which one it was supposed to be. It basically sounded like an urban legend he'd sort of heard somewhere and decided to repeat it. You cannot go making any accusations based on that and they shouldn't be dragged into what Conte himself said.

    The only thing huge were the actual admissions from Conte, where he said he actually worked with Rusedski, Sharapova, Lendl and Chang. Those are serious accusations from someone with first hand knowledge.
     
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  12. RAFA2005RG

    RAFA2005RG Banned

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    What time of the video was Rusedski, Sharapova, Lendl and Chang?
     
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  13. sonicare

    sonicare Hall of Fame

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    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/02/serena-williams-flees-to-panic-room_n_1073005.html

    And if you google conte rusedski, you find some interesting stuff. Rusedski did get banned to PEDs at some stage right? So if this guys claiming he worked with Ivan, Maria, chang and a host of other players, it is dodgy as hell.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2012
    #13
  14. sonicare

    sonicare Hall of Fame

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    I told you to watch it properly. Start watching. It is between the 8 minute and 35 minute mark. Can you not even follow instructions?
     
    #14
  15. octogon

    octogon Semi-Pro

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    Oh, so this is already a known story about Serena, and it's been written off as a mix up (alledgedly, Serena's assistant thought the random tester was a prowler and called the police. It's not an unlikely occurence, especially if they come unannounced. She may even still have given the sample). Not exactly a big deal if it a story that's already came and gone and caused no significant waves at the time.

    What Conte said about working with those retired players and Sharappva is HUGE. He basically said he hooked them up.

    And Murray is going to be implicated by association, now that Lendl is his coach (and Murray starts winning major titles and slams with Lendl).
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2012
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  16. DropShotArtist

    DropShotArtist Banned

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    LOL, you'd have to be really naive to believe that "mix up" angle :)
     
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  17. sonicare

    sonicare Hall of Fame

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    The Serena story is dodgy in the sense that hes explaining how testing is done and how athletes are allowed to miss X amounts of tests in a 18 month period. Now obviously we cant draw from that anyone who misses a test is doping but it is interesting nevertheless.

    The Lendl, chang and Maria thing is incredible if you ask me. he also mentions Rusedski who we know for a fact was done for PEDs. maybe the ATP decided to throw him under the bus because he was at the end of his career. who knows.
     
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  18. octogon

    octogon Semi-Pro

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    yeah, Rusedski had a positive test for nandralone, but got "cleared" in a tribunal based on some technicalities. So it's kind of been forgotten with him, because he was deemed innocent. I guess it was the same sort of thing that allowed Lance Armstrong to be "cleared" for his failed tests in 1999.
     
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  19. octogon

    octogon Semi-Pro

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    Oh, I defintely think it's suspect:). But at the end of the day, it's one of those things you can't really draw any hard conclusions from, so you just have to let it go and keep giving the athlete the benefit of the doubt till something more concrete surfaces.

    Conte's accusations are a whole different kettle of fish. This guy is like the Godfather of sports doping. If he says he worked with an athlete, I tend to believe him.

    So basically, Sharapova, the active world WTA no.2 is a drug cheat. They won't go after her of course. Too much money at stake. But damn....I think some big names are going to be brought down, across all sports, after Armstrong. Armstrong was an American icon. If they can take him down, everyone has to be afraid.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2012
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  20. RAFA2005RG

    RAFA2005RG Banned

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    Not everyone has 27 free minutes per day.
     
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  21. sonicare

    sonicare Hall of Fame

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    You should though since you spend hours trolling this very forum.

    I will throw you a bone.

    He names them just after 34.45 minutes
     
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  22. tennisaddict

    tennisaddict G.O.A.T.

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    I gave you a clue

    Hint : Melzer-Santiago Giraldo
     
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  23. Great Uncle Bulgaria

    Great Uncle Bulgaria New User

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    I remember reading some years ago that Lendl, Chang and also Jim Courier's were associated with BALCO.

    I could not listen to the podcast properly - it kept cutting out. Did Conte say he gave Rusedski etc banned substances or just that he worked with them? If he is accusing these guys of doping has he taken it to the proper authorities together with the evidence?
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2012
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  24. roberttennis54

    roberttennis54 Semi-Pro

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    No he never said he worked with those guys, but an associate who was also doping guys was working with them.

    Conte does not say anything we don't know.

    Basically it confirms a lot of things.

    1. Doping authorities bury test.
    2. Easy to get around doping by missing out of competition test.
    3. It is possible to win clean and guys still do it today.
     
    #24
  25. octogon

    octogon Semi-Pro

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    Conte said that he's not interested in being a snitch. Conte said he "worked" with Rusedski, Chang, Lendl and Sharapova....but the only reason he'd be working with them would be to give them doping programmes. That's what he does. So he doesn't really have to elaborate.

    This is devastating stuff. Considering Rusedski failed a test for nandralone and Chang was a physical jackrabbit punching way above his weight, this seems all to credible.
     
    #25
  26. sonicare

    sonicare Hall of Fame

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    Re BOLD:

    I went and rewatched it..he clearly says "I worked with a lot of different players, michael chang..etc etc"

    He is saying his colleague went off and worked with lot of other tennis players and that he, conte himself, worked with atleast those 4 players.

    This is some ****ed up ****.
     
    #26
  27. octogon

    octogon Semi-Pro

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    No, Conte said his asscociate worked with many great tennis players (Wimbledon Champions, whom he never mentioned by name) and Conte said he himself worked with Rusedki, Sharapova, Chang etc.
     
    #27
  28. roberttennis54

    roberttennis54 Semi-Pro

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    Ok. That's even worse. Though none of those names surprise me. If I was going to be making a list of dopers all of those three would already have been on my list.

    EDIT

    Say what you want about Hingis. Personally I never liked her, thought she was rude, arrogant etc. However, she was robbed of her rightful place in womens tennis. She would have been an all time great on a level playing field.

    The most ironic thing of all is she IS the one with a doping ban.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2012
    #28
  29. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    How do you know Hingis didnt dope. As you yourself said she was the one with a doping ban. Her improvement from first serves never harder than 72 mph in early and mid 1996 to 100+ mph first serves in 1997 was very fast and noticeable, and while she was never touted as a big power player the upgrade in power in her shots from mid 1996 to even late 1996 was also extreme. She went from not being able to break an egg with the pace of her shots, and barely able to hit any winners vs Graf, Majoli, and Pierce in the first 7 months of 1996, and even barely able to hit winners vs the powerless SANCHEZ in her 3 set win over a badly off form Sanchez Vicario at the 96 U.S Open, to hitting 60 winners (more than Graf) vs Graf in the 96 WTA Championships final on a fast carpet court, and overpowering the hard hitting Pierce in the Australian Open final. I guess that was all natural to happen so quickly.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 20, 2012
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  30. octogon

    octogon Semi-Pro

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    i think Steffi Graf's name needs to be removed from the title of this thread. It's not fair to have her associated with what Conte said.

    (though it wouldn't be a huge shock if she was a juicer as well. But right now, there's nothing on her)
     
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  31. roberttennis54

    roberttennis54 Semi-Pro

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    We don't but there as I said, there was no surprise about the players Conte worked with. I would have had them all done as dopers.

    The chances of Hingis doping is very low in my opinion especially before her first retirement. She just does not tick enough of the doping boxes.
     
    #31
  32. sonicare

    sonicare Hall of Fame

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    I wonder what wimbledon champions those might be. You would have to think anyone with massive endurance back in the day is a candidate :( borg? Vilas?

    I tried changing it but it won't :( I watched the podcast last night and this morning when making the post, for some reason, I confused Steffi and Sharapova.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2012
    #32
  33. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    I wouldnt be the least bit surprised if Hingis began doping in late 1996 and that explains the sudden and rapid increase to the pace of her serve and groundstrokes, and her shockingly quick rise from #15 to #1. Obviously you missed that part of my post which I edited in later.

    Anyway Conte did not name Venus, Serena, and Davenport who are the only three players who arguably wrecked Hingis's career, but really only Davenport and Venus as Hingis was done by the time Serena really got going. Sharapova has nothing to do with Hingis at all really.
     
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  34. RAFA2005RG

    RAFA2005RG Banned

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    Cocaine ban lol. As if Cocaine is doping :lol:
     
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  35. BauerAlmeida

    BauerAlmeida Semi-Pro

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    The Serena thing?
     
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  36. roberttennis54

    roberttennis54 Semi-Pro

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    Yes not fair to have her name there when there is no link. I don't believe in naming sportsmen without a link.

    As for Graf personally I am undecided. From the times she was said to run going back to her school days she was at the level you would expect from a world class athletics prodigy. She is probably the most gifted physically gifted top tennis player ever.
     
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  37. RAFA2005RG

    RAFA2005RG Banned

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    How the fuque do you do that....
     
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  38. roberttennis54

    roberttennis54 Semi-Pro

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    She was 15 then lol. Nothing at all suggest Hingis ever started doping. Not saying she did not dope, but if I was forced to pick JUST ONE female slam winner I thought was clean then it would be Hingis.
     
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  39. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    As for Davenport I highly doubt she took drugs either as she was a fat unathletic slob basically. She could hit so hard since she had great technique (much better than Hingis who had a technically flawed serve and forehand in fact) and because her massive height meant she had quite good strength but obviously that was natural.
     
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  40. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    Her serves went from no more than 72 mph to being over 100 mph in just a few months. That is NOT natural, even at that age. The change from Hingis in pace of serve and groundstroking from July 96 to October 96 was extraordinary.

    There is no more reason to be suspicious of say Davenport (the main one who wrecked Hingis's career, not the Williams) than there is of Hingis. In fact there is much less. Davenport was a fat unathletic slob with no muscles, even if she could power the heck off her groundstrokes which she did since she was a baby, and when she went from a U Haul to merely a truck and her movement upgraded from snail to an old granny she became good enough to win slams through the quality of her groundstrokes alone. There isnt even any natural reason to suspect Venus of doping anymore than Hingis. The only ones there might be is Serena and Capriati who began to come into prominence (apart from Serena's 99 U.S Open but did virtually nothing for 2 years after that) when Hingis was already done, baked, and over.

    What the hell do Sharapova and 3 men have to do with Hingis and her tailed off careeer? Absolutely nothing. They were the only ones named by Conte.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 20, 2012
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  41. sonicare

    sonicare Hall of Fame

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    This..Lets stick to the topic at hand
     
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  42. roberttennis54

    roberttennis54 Semi-Pro

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    Conte mentioned Serena's panic room attack as well. Anyway don't want to get into naming players now.

    Good to see Conte appears to be confirming what I know. Such 10 seconds flat in the 100 metres can is what world class 100 metre runners run clean.
     
    #42
  43. BauerAlmeida

    BauerAlmeida Semi-Pro

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    Nadal also added some miles to his serve in the USO 2010, does that mean he was doping??
     
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  44. octogon

    octogon Semi-Pro

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    I think he's basically trying to say that everyone who started beating Hingis (Venus, Serena, Davenport) was doping. And it's possible they all were (though Serena is the only one who has even given any reason to suspect she might). But I'm pretty damned certain that if everyone else was doping, and Hingis was aware of this, that Hingis would have doped as well. It's a slippery slope when you make that accusation that basically every top player EXCEPT Hingis at that time was doping. Doesn't seem credible.

    It's like claiming that Nadal, Djokovic and Murray are doping, but saying Federer is just getting by on natural talent. Federer is just as suspect as the rest of them. It's an intensely physical game now, and he's an old man in tennis terms, yet he's still living with these younger guys.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2012
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  45. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    Probably did, especialy as he never reduplicated that serving ever again. I am of the belief over half of top players dope anyway, in fact over half of top athletes in all sports today dope at some point, so I dont even really care either way.
     
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  46. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    Like I said Davenport is the least likely of all those to dope. She was a fat unathletic slob (sorry if that sounds harsh but it is reality). So if she doped she did a crappy job of it. Even shot putters who no doubt mostly doped have alot more muscle to go with all the fat than she did. As to that she could overpower Hingis it isnt Davenport's fault she was born 8 inches taller than Hingis so naturally had more strength even as unathletic and pudgy as she was, and that her groundstroke and serve technique was flawless and overall better than Hingis.

    Hingis even at her very peak had significant problems with Novotna who usually beat her on carpet and grass, and usually outplayed her but choked at the end to lose on hard courts. Was she a big power player or a doper too, lol!
     
    #46
  47. roberttennis54

    roberttennis54 Semi-Pro

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    I agree with that, but why don't you care. I take it you were not close to being a professional athlete yourself. What about if one of your kids wants to be a sportsman or child of a friend/family member. Doping is bad for you at the end of the day. Don't you care that if they have integrity they will have to give up their dreams? Not to mention the hundreds upon hundreds of clean athletes, who lose out to dopers.
     
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  48. sonicare

    sonicare Hall of Fame

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    What is interesting to me now is...where does this leave murray?

    He Hired Ivan and Conte has specifically named Ivan lendll as someone he worked with

    Now we see Murray all of a sudden have his highlight year soon as he hooks up with Ivan.

    I really don't know what to make of all this TBH
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2012
    #48
  49. roberttennis54

    roberttennis54 Semi-Pro

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    Let's stop naming players.
    There are many examples in even the dirtiest sports of athletes knowing others around them are cheating but choosing to remain clean. So just, because an athlete suspects those around them are doping does not mean they would be prepared to do the same.

    Then there is the added risks for women. A lot of women don't want to turn into muscle bound freaks of nature. A few female sportswoman have refused to dope due to vanity alone.
     
    #49
  50. octogon

    octogon Semi-Pro

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    You can't just say someone is a likely doper because they are naturally athletic. Venus had so many natural physical advantadges over Hingis, that she wouldn't actually need to dope to beat her. She was like 6 or 7 inches taller, and had a huge wingspan. She was clearly naturally athletic, fast and strong. And she's not built like a tank like Serena (not that that means anything in regards to doping, but Serena's physical type is a more obvious sign).

    Very few people even accused Venus of being a likely doper, because her physical advantadges were so obvious (even moreso than Serena's).
     
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