video: are these guys 5.0?

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by pushing_wins, Nov 11, 2009.

  1. Steady Eddy

    Steady Eddy Hall of Fame

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    Do they get better? For the first ten points, the mean # of shots is only 2.1, and that's counting their 6 shot rally on the 10th and last point. All the others are only 1, 2, or 3 shots in duration. Of these 10, 7 end in an unforced error, 2 end with a winner, and on 1 I cannot tell.

    If your opponent is so likely to miss, why take so many chances yourself? I like to make my opponent earn their points, I really wonder if a steady 3.5 would beat them? Sure, it wouldn't look impressive and all that, but against a player who rarely puts two consecutive shots in play, (and they're hardly unreturnable when they go in, the other player gets his racquet solidly on the ball, it's just long or in the net...), the steadier player would win. There wouldn't be enough winners for the 5.0 to make up for the errors. Sure, the 5.0 would have all the highlight shots, he just wouldn't have the win.

    Then he could create another thread here about how, "I lost to a stupid pusher. :mad: "
     
    #51
  2. ximian

    ximian Rookie

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    Exactly. The players in the video are not very good when the rubber hits the road.
     
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  3. Ken Honecker

    Ken Honecker Rookie

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    That's what I thought. For the first 50 seconds it looked like getting the serve in was all they could manage and I was thinking 3.5 Then they seemed to wake up and started to exchange limited rallys. They seemed to hit the ball much harder and I saw some windshield washer topspin but they still didn't look very complete. God knows if they are 5.0's they are 5.0's but I still keep thinking players better than me should hit the ball in the court more often no matter how hard they are launching it.
     
    #53
  4. raiden031

    raiden031 Legend

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    This is what I dont' get. I got beat easily in singles several times this year in a 4.0 league. The most generalized memory I have of my opponents is that they rarely give up free points. I myself definitely blew a couple of points early in the rally but they would go at least 4-5 shots before hitting an error.
     
    #54
  5. goober

    goober Legend

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    LOL @ D1/II- what the hell does that have to do with anything? I didn't know those guys played NTRP.

    What market are you in? It is true he is playing mostly dubs out of Hawaii.

    But I looked over his tournament record. He has a win over a 5.0 player in MI, lost to a 7-5, 6-4 to a 5.0 from Ohio. He actually played a guy I know personally who has a 4.5 rating but was probably 4.0 when he played him, 6-0, 6-1 living in AZ. Granted most of his matches were 4-5 years ago. Right now his singles ratings is probably not 5.0 right now, but I don't see how he would lose to a computer rated 4.0 player from any state.
     
    #55
  6. raiden031

    raiden031 Legend

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    My team played against Hawaii at 3.0 Nationals. They were a very good team. So yeah it seems odd that Hawaii would be weaker than the rest of the country, yet field a solid team at 3.0 Nationals.
     
    #56
  7. lawrence

    lawrence Hall of Fame

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    Decent strokes but not I think they could step it up on the footwork a bit.
     
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  8. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    and the "4.5 in your market" will be lucky to win points off the 4.5's in mine. Therefore, the 4.5's in your market are really just 2.5 players.

    Thanks for clearing that up.
     
    #58
  9. NamRanger

    NamRanger G.O.A.T.

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    4.5/5.0. Probably a 5.0 based on his footwork. That's a pretty damn fast moving big guy.
     
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  10. dozu

    dozu Banned

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    exactly my point - if my 4.5 is really 2.5 in your market, that makes the guys in the video about 1.5-2.0.

    Thanks for clearing that up.
     
    #60
  11. jrod

    jrod Hall of Fame

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    My 5.0 is better than your 5.0? This is the kind of argument we used to engage in during recess in 6th grade.

    Have at it boys....just remember to knock it off when the bell rings.
     
    #61
  12. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    I don't think so. The guy is a 5.0. Period. He has a NATIONAL USTA ranking. End of story.

    If you don't like it, take it up with the USTA.
     
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  13. EikelBeiter

    EikelBeiter Professional

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    Is that the U.S. national ranking? with Roddick on 1?

    what is his ranking (guy in white) ?
     
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  14. Azzurri

    Azzurri Legend

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    he seems to be a pretty good player and controlled. I have to get out of the mindset how someone's rating is based on how their strokes look. The guy in the white shirt has a very good serve and seems to have good control. He gives his opponent a lot of pressure. The results (based on actual play) is not really argueable.

    But how do you "rate" someone if they never played a USTA match(have no rating)? That is the problem I have...its bugging me.:-?
     
    #64
  15. goober

    goober Legend

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    NO, rankings are not the same as ratings in the US. Basically if you are in the top 400 in the world you have a 7.0 rating. NTRP ratings are for club/recreational players. 5.0 is generally associated with a good amateur player. So people get into retarded debates when someone posts a video and says this guy is a certain rating and people think he isn't.
     
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  16. Azzurri

    Azzurri Legend

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    I agree with you. Its easy to see the guy has "game" and he has good control. He has a good serve and is good at getting into the right position to return shots (wether at net or the baseline). Just because he does not look like Federer on court does not mean he can't WIN. I have come to realize (with a bruised ego) that stroke mechanics don't equal results. My buddy looks like he is swinging a frying pan when he plays. Looks horrible at the net (shanks many shots, yet they go in) and just looks like a 2.5, but he is not. This guy beats people all the time that have prettier strokes. But over the past few months (especially from the JollyRoger issue) I have seen that stroke mechanics don't mean much at all. Heck, I look pretty and I suck!:)
     
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  17. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    my apologies. I meant "rating". As in, NTRP rating.
     
    #67
  18. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    we could guess, which is what makes these boards interesting.

    As you said, pretty strokes don't mean much. In the end, all that matters is what the score is at the end of the match.
     
    #68
  19. dozu

    dozu Banned

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    I already said 'I got it' in a previous post, and I maintain my 'so what, he is still a hack' position.

    and who cares about USTA anyway.
     
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  20. Azzurri

    Azzurri Legend

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    LOL..hence all the argueing:)

    by the way, when are you getting the X90? The SW looks very promising.
     
    #70
  21. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    and that "hack" is a 5.0.

    obviously, you do, and so does the OP since this is what is being discussed here (NTRP rating of this particular player).
     
    #71
  22. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    Not sure. I was selected by TW to complete a review of a "prototype frame". Could this be the x90??

    as for the actual x90, I could of had one a week ago, but didn't have time to follow up. Will just have to wait and see. How about you?? You planning on demoning?? what do you think of the paintjob?? I'm half/half on it.
     
    #72
  23. Azzurri

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    #73
  24. EikelBeiter

    EikelBeiter Professional

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    I see, in The Netherlands we have a rating system and a national ranking system which are seperate.

    Does the U.S. also have a national ranking system? Or only a rating system which is based on the international rankings (for high level players)
     
    #74
  25. SlapChop

    SlapChop Semi-Pro

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    That doesn't look anything like the 3.5 match I watched at the last tournament I played. I think I will try and bring my video camera to the next tournament I attend.
     
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  26. dozu

    dozu Banned

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    yup - that is what I am saying. thanks for stating the obvious.
     
    #76
  27. Azzurri

    Azzurri Legend

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    just going by what the video states...3.5 USTA match. find me another 3.5 match that looks like the one we are debating (from the OP) and you will have something, but as Drakulie stated...the rating is the rating.

    some more 3.5...all starting to look the same. I think Drak and a few others arguements hold water.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCRV9sfPxoQ&feature=related

    Below is an example of a sandbagger (the guy in the black shorts seems a lot better than the chubby guy...are both 3.5??)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iwZNY7hqqs&feature=related
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2009
    #77
  28. Azzurri

    Azzurri Legend

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    #78
  29. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    #79
  30. dozu

    dozu Banned

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    very nice - you have just won the race to the bottom.

    I give up.

    let me add - I am not surprised - there are 5.5 guys around here I can blow off the court, who don't play close to some 4.5's sandbagging as 4.0s.

    The system is so screwed up - it's pointless to keep debating.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2009
    #80
  31. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Draks...
    Nice short vid.
    That guy COULD be a 5.5 because he's got ready position, movement, quickness, and eye concentration.
    Guy in white shirt might be ranked somewhere in 5.0's, but his tennis abilities would have him right at strong 3.5 with not much chance of getting better.
     
    #81
  32. 2ndServe

    2ndServe Professional

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    The guy in white looks better than he is because his opponent is terrible. Guy in white has a decent spin serve, decent volleys and his forehand can force errors. But he can do most of this because they other guy's backhand is teribad.

    I'm going to look like a fool but in the next month I will be playing with guys who have had atp doubles points, they play 6.0 and open doubles and are light years ahead of these guys. Bagel these guys all day and they don't even play singles, just doubles tourneys.

    next month you guys can rag on my game.
     
    #82
  33. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    as you should, because you can't argue NTRP. facts are facts.

    I could almost guarantee you won't get one game off the guy in the vid I provided. Quite frankly, he doesn't need an NTRP. He was RANKED # 1 in the nation for a few years. Won the Grand slam in his age bracket I believe twice, and missed it a third time by not winning the clay title. To add, won 3 of the 4 nationals titles in the age group younger than him, and was an ex ATP pro who made it to the quarters of Wimbledon. His high ATP ranking was I believe in the 170's.

    Bottom line is, videos are deceptive, and prove nothing when it comes to ratings. Only outcome does.
     
    #83
  34. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    As I said, based on ready position, movement, eye tracking, yellow shirt guy could be pretty good.
     
    #84
  35. goober

    goober Legend

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    As far as I can tell from your prior posts, you are from the Northeast. The mighty 4.5 New England team did not win a single match Nationals this year. But the lowly Hawaii team did- lol. Is that the 4.5 area that is so dominating?
     
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  36. EikelBeiter

    EikelBeiter Professional

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    I would hate losing to that guy :)
     
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  37. truthorbust

    truthorbust Banned

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    4.0 at best IMO. they lack speed and intensity and look unfit.
     
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  38. VaBeachTennis

    VaBeachTennis Semi-Pro

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    LOL, which goes back to my original assertion that the guy in question (Gary), would probably soundly beat many of his detractors on this thread.
     
    #88
  39. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    ^^^ "gary" will most likely beat over 80% of this board.
     
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  40. mucat

    mucat Hall of Fame

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    The guy in the white shirt got a nice serve.
     
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  41. Mike Cottrill

    Mike Cottrill Hall of Fame

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    You should see the mood of the guys who walk of the court asking what the $ell happend..
     
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  42. Mike Cottrill

    Mike Cottrill Hall of Fame

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    I don’t think he made it to the quarters of Wimbledon, but did make it to quarters of another grass court tourney in the states called Newport. ATP top was around 105

    There is a benchmark 5.5 player that has taken practice sets off of him who is years younger. It took a very long time for this guy to take sets off him. And I doubt he is really a 5.5 player either. The guy played Div 1 after toping out around 300 atp in doubles.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2009
    #92
  43. jazzyfunkybluesy

    jazzyfunkybluesy Banned

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    3.5 or 4.0.
     
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  44. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    Thanks, Mike.

    yeah, I couldn't recall if it was wimby or another grass court tourney. Good stuff.

    BTW, I love posting that video in all these threads. :)
     
    #94
  45. Mike Cottrill

    Mike Cottrill Hall of Fame

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    ^^
    Yea, it is funny. I got a chance to play a couple easy go lucky sets of doubles with him a few months ago. He still had his knee all wrapped up. He got swine and a week after that still won a national turney.
     
    #95
  46. dozu

    dozu Banned

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    right, and my head to head against federer is 10-0. you can look it up, it's all verifiable.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2009
    #96
  47. VaBeachTennis

    VaBeachTennis Semi-Pro

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    #97
  48. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    Awww. Good stuff. How was it facing that kicker?? :)




    dozu, you don't even have a 10-0 head to head against the 8 year old who plays tennis off the wall in your local public park.
     
    #98
  49. jazzyfunkybluesy

    jazzyfunkybluesy Banned

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    Yeah I think the veterans are trying to bs us.
     
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  50. Ripper014

    Ripper014 Hall of Fame

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    The guy in the red shirt is barely trying, you can tell he is a good player... solid stroke making... the guy on the near side is struggling though.
     

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