Video: Critque backhand

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by Ducker, Jan 25, 2012.

  1. Ducker

    Ducker Rookie

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    Hitting 2hnded back hands off the balll machine on a nice day. Any comments, compliments, or positive/negative feedback is appreciated. I have been putting alot of work into fitness and tennis.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7L8_vuy3FI
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2012
    #1
  2. Ducker

    Ducker Rookie

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    omg 100 views and no comments? Cmon guys how am I looking?
     
    #2
  3. Chyeaah

    Chyeaah Professional

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    Stop complaining, no one needs to comment.

    Its good. Now put a shirt on 80 degrees is nothing.

    Your backhand looks, good although i can only critique on a 1 handed, i've recently switched to a two handed so i don't know much. And if that is your house, hire a coach your bloody rich. The only thing i can comment on is the when you take back bend your wrists back more so the butt is facing towards the ball. Kind of like if your trying to drag something heavy.

    Half the time I cant even see your racquet, move the camera left abit,
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2012
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  4. stormholloway

    stormholloway Legend

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    Yeah man, a really long video of you hitting shirtless at some Italian villa.

    Screams "hey guys look at me". Weak strokes anyway. You find them in a Cracker Jack box?
     
    #4
  5. samarai

    samarai Rookie

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    I agree, if that is your house, there's no reason to ask advice from this board. Most of us are just at the 3.0 to 3.5 level. j/k. Hard to tell just hitting against a ball machine but stroke doesnt look bad.
     
    #5
  6. ho

    ho Semi-Pro

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    2HBH is the most simple mechanic in the game if you hit with your body. And you did just that. There is not a whole lot to comment but compliment. Bend your leg a little more will and some speed, and if ball keep going out add a little c on your back swing.
    My admiration on your body. I wish I have that now than 30 years ago.
     
    #6
  7. sunof tennis

    sunof tennis Professional

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    Looks like you have the basics down fairly well. You do know your knees can bend though, right? Also you can use more trunk/shoulder rotation. Work on your footwork. I know when I tried to switch from a one hand to a two handed backhand, my footwork totally sucked. I was alway stepping across like you do on the one hander. Try work on getting there and planting on the left foot (see how Novak does it). Finally, you hit fairly flat. Let your hands drop below the level of the ball and work on brushing up some to get more spin and therefore more margin for error.
     
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  8. himynameisNIKE

    himynameisNIKE Professional

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    get lower and have a wider foundation with your legs. turn your shoulders a bit more and rotate your hips.
     
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  9. ho

    ho Semi-Pro

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    You sooo good
     
    #9
  10. himynameisNIKE

    himynameisNIKE Professional

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    but not as good as you my dear ho
     
    #10
  11. Ducker

    Ducker Rookie

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    I've been hitting with a 5.0+ player who is amazing for the past 2 years about 5 times a week. He is bacically my coach. I will not pay for a coach....just because you can doesnt mean you should.

    Well thanks for the comments Im satisfied with what I have accomplished thats why I decided to post this and get some comments. I've been putting a ton of time in on the court and gym.

    I've got to be the first to admit Im pretty lucky to be able to spend so much time doing something I love. Just wish Id have started sooner.
     
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  12. Bagumbawalla

    Bagumbawalla Hall of Fame

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    Overall, very good. I do, however, agree with sonof tennis, above. Since this is a practice session, you should be striving to get down all the basics. I notice you are very casual with your footwork- sometimes your weight is on one foot, sometimes the other, sometimes your right foot is in the air...

    This second part is more a criticism of the "practce", rather than your form. You are just hitting the ball straight back down the middle. To get the mostbenefit, you might try alternating shots form one corner to the other, or down the line then crosscourt- something that might help in a match situation. So, this seems more like an exhibition than actual practice.
     
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  13. The Bawss

    The Bawss Banned

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    Your backhand looks like you should wear a t shirt.
     
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  14. GrahamIsSuper

    GrahamIsSuper Semi-Pro

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    Your footwork is very lazy. That same "skip-step" you are doing after you hit and return to center is the one you should be doing on the way to the ball as well. Practice good footwork habits and the rest of the stroke makes itself.
     
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  15. Cheetah

    Cheetah Hall of Fame

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    footwork is lazy. you arm the ball too much. do yourself a favor and take a couple of lessons even if you've said 'you shouldn't'. otherwise you will just groove those almost ugly strokes and progress at a slower rate. good luck.
     
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  16. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    I agree. Lazy footwork, and pushing the ball. Next time you make a video, please actually stroke the ball the way you would against an opponent.
     
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  17. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Discard this if you want.
    What I see is the lack of direction in your shots. You mix up all sorts of different shots while practicing. You should hit 5 CC, 5 up the middle, then 5 DTL, instead of shotgunning to wherever you happen to hit the ball.
    This not important for 3.5 level, but you know you are better.
     
    #17
  18. Ducker

    Ducker Rookie

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    I was I aiming for spots and hitting them most of the time. I did not have a predetermined set number I wanted to hit like 5 here 5 there 5 there. What I did was as the ball was coming I made a split second decision where to go with it somtimes it was cross, down the line, or down the middle.
     
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  19. Ducker

    Ducker Rookie

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    Anyone here with actual teaching/coaching Experience?
     
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  20. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Wrong answer, Ducker.
    I thought you might be 4.5 or beyond, guess I was wrong.
    Not only do you not know how to practice, but you insist "on the fly" decisions on target is acceptable. It is not.
    It is OK if you were a 3.5, or recently promoted 4.0.
    It's NOT OK if you're 4.5 and beyond. At your level, you need to hit almost every ball exactly where you PREdetermined. NOT winging it on the fly. You need to hit say....left side of the court EVERY time, at least within 5' of the sideline. EVERY time off a ball machine, maybe 85% off a human opponent.
    Then you need a center jam shot, to take away your opponent's angles.
    Then you need a right side of the court shot, NO matter what is incoming.
    How do you think those pros can hit 20 shot CC rallies>? They PRE determined their target.
     
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  21. Ducker

    Ducker Rookie

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    I can do that. I can adjust my depth too.

    LeeD are you saying before your opponent even hits you a ball (you dont know where hes going yet) you're already going to have your spot picked out?

    I think thats rediculous. You might have an idea where you would want to go idealy, but depending on his shot your going to have to decide whats best very quickly.
     
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  22. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Wrong again. 2 strikes for a 4.5 player. Maybe that's why you never stated your ratings....skill level.
    Obviously, you hit just fine, better than any playground player. That would lead one to think you're 4.5 or B level, a player needing a black book to find practice partners.
    In reality, you hit the ball where it's most convenient, meaning you're down to 4.0 at best.
    A top player hits where HE wants to hit, regardless of the incoming ball...up to a point of course. He cannot hit his ball if the opponent hits a clean winner. A top level player can go DTL or CC at will, if he can reach the ball. One good practice is two vs one. The one hits the alley regardless of DTL or CC. The two make the one run. You cannot be good at tennis being indecisive and winging it on the go.
     
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  23. Ducker

    Ducker Rookie

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    Again I can go where I want whenever I want quite consistantly obviously i dont make them ALL, id then be better than pros. I've done your little predetermined drill before (2 vs1) its not hard. The point Im making is you dont make your decision until you see what exactly your opponent gives you. You have to decide very quickly WHERE to go based upon what you want to do strategicly.

    Theres no one sure fire way to practice lol....

    btw ive hit with a pro before while staying in hawaii he told me I was 4.5. Ive hit at indian wells before and was asked to play with a up and coming kid from europe who was a much higher level than after he and his coach saw me hit.

    I am actually a 4.5. hope someday i can make 5.0.
     
    #23
  24. Cheetah

    Cheetah Hall of Fame

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    Based on your video and the above statements I don't think you can hit consistently wherever you want. Maybe you hit 3-4 in a row against a machine feeding you slow paced balls with the same spin and same arc every single time but not against a human who doesn't want you to hit 3-4 in a row. You seem to have some natural ability but with that footwork you are not going to be able to hit over 3 in a row wherever you want consistently with another 4.5 player. If you want to hit consistently you need consistent footwork to get you in optimum position early so that you execute a consistent swing path. In that video your feet are in a different position almost every time when you hit. From what I see if you were faced with a legitimate 4.5 and recording it for TT you would be trying like hell to get 3-4 in consistently which would lead to you running and scrambling more and 'trying' hard which would lead to even worse footwork.

    And the 2vs1 is not easy. Yea maybe it's easy for the first 3 minutes but have you actually done it for 20 mins non-stop? If were easy then it wouldn't be such a popular training drill.

    How about you put that machine on random and hit every ball to deep left corner and record it and let us see? Then we can reevaluate
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2012
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  25. Ducker

    Ducker Rookie

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    Great idea, ill make the video soon. Maybe tomorow If I can actually.
     
    #25
  26. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

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    Nice socks.
    As far as the stroke, I couldn't tell much.
    I could tell the ball didn't land in the court as much as I thought it would.
     
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  27. Cheetah

    Cheetah Hall of Fame

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    cool. looking forward to it. dont worry about 'not making them all'. just do that drill and post. and you'll get more helpful tips because then everyone here will at least know what you're trying to do. and don't be lazy. practicing with a clear goal is important. not just 'hitting'.
     
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  28. rkelley

    rkelley Hall of Fame

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    For what it's worth, your backhand isn't bad at all. You're hitting it well.

    You should listen to the comments about the footwork. The straight legs and casual open stance are not going to help your shot. Especially when you're practicing you should try to set-up the same way every time, prep the racquet the same way, etc. That repetition is your friend.

    Also loosen up those arms a bit.

    Relative to placement, I kind of get what Lee is saying, but my experience is that my oponent's shots do effect my choices, and hopefully visa versa. Part of what you're trying to do with your shots is take away their options. There is some on the fly decision making that needs to be done, or at least adjustments to plans.
     
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  29. stormholloway

    stormholloway Legend

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    Sorry this just sounds like nonsense to me. The better a player is the closer to his mental target he will hit balls, obviously. This applies to balls on the run too but I think the better a player is, the exponentially closer to his target he will hit that ball.

    4.5 etc are just arbitrary distinctions. If you put a dime on Federer's mental targets for balls on the run, how many dimes does he hit in a 5 set match? More often than not, he's going to hit the ball close to the dime rather than on it.

    It's not as if a 4.0 has no targets and suddenly when the tennis fairy waves a wand and makes him a 4.5 he suddenly hits all his targets. It's baloney. You try and get close to the target you have in your head.

    Oh please. What is "exact"? I used a dime as a reference. No player on the planet hits 'his dimes' exactly every time. Why doesn't Federer nail the baseline with every groundstroke? Do you think he intentionally aims for no man's land and the service line on some of these shots? The pros routinely hit sitters into the net so where do you get this 'a 4.5 must hit the ball exactly where you predetermined business?
     
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  30. AlpineCadet

    AlpineCadet Hall of Fame

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    you and i are the same, we can't bend our knees enough.
     
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  31. rafafan20

    rafafan20 Professional

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    yup sure does
     
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  32. Ducker

    Ducker Rookie

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    Thanks for the back up. I appreciated it. LeeD is out of his mind here. Its not like I was standing up there hitting with no intention. I had my mental target or spot picked out for each shot. Instead of going for 10 in the same spot I went spots based upon what I felt like hitting at that second.

    Infact I dont think you could of described this any better. We chose a spot and visualize it. The ball will rarely hit that spot. If people good do that then you would see pros hitting the ball on the line 90percent of the time.
     
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  33. Chyeaah

    Chyeaah Professional

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    Hiring coaches are good. Why do Pro's have coaches, to perfect their technique for more ball speed and LESS injuries. Also if you get a good coach and your tight with him/her you can get some extra free court time if he owns the courts.

    Your BH is probably better alot of people who post here so you won't get a extraordinary answer from the internet.

    P.S - If that is your house, my guess would be 2-3 mil. Dunno the prices in America.
     
    #33
  34. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Guys, really.
    We agree OP hits at least like a 4.5?
    As such, a 4.5, and hitting WITH a ball machine, not against a ball machine, since HE set and located the ball machine, he should not be hitting mindlessly.
    He is hitting mindlessly, just hitting the ball back over whereever it happens to go.
     
    #34
  35. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    This time, I agree with you 100%. He's just wasting his and our time.
     
    #35
  36. Fed Kennedy

    Fed Kennedy Hall of Fame

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    Strokes look good. Body language a little non-athletic.
    Definitely put a shirt on. Lol.
     
    #36
  37. Ducker

    Ducker Rookie

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    No, its not mindless. Im not swinging and having the ball go somwhere random, what dont you understand about that. Im hitting it where I want to each time, the fact is that Im just choosing a different location. This isnt mindless lol...
     
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  38. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Sees most everyone agrees you hit very well. A 4.5 rating from most of us puts you ahead of us in hitting skills.
    But hitting skills is not tennis playing skills.
    YOU say you are hitting exactly where you want.
    EVERY here says you are just hitting where the incoming ball allows, meaning you are a good hitter, but not necessarily a good PLAYER.
    Show us your vid of being able to actually hit where you want, before you make the last minute decision.
    You are hitting a ball machine, for chirist sakes!
     
    #38
  39. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Ducker, the point is fairly simple. While LeeD tends to put things in his own unique way, his point is correct. What we see in the video is not a practice session. It's someone hitting solid backhands without much effort. This says one of two things: 1. you're hitting at that pace because it's your only controllable pace or 2. you're just out hitting for fun. I think the latter since the stroke is technically solid. The point though is that the video is then just a waste of time. You're not using any effort, and what to you is "aiming" appears to us as just hitting the ball as it flies. Make another video, double or triple the intensity, and put the ball in a certain area of the court each time. Cross courts, DTLs, deep middle, or fan it out. But nonetheless, the point of practicing with a ball machine is that you can improve your strokes if you try. You're not showing that last part.
     
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  40. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Next time, in addition to being properly clothed, mount the camera so we can see where the ball is landing. The vast, vast majority of your strokes are landing very deep, or actually look out. A good rally ball lands about 1-2 feet from the service line, not 1-2 inches from the baseline. I'm curious to see where your shots land.
     
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  41. Ducker

    Ducker Rookie

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    Ok well said pvaudio. Ill be making another with all the shots going into the same location, ill up the intensity. Im trying to think of an easy way to get the camera up higher without a tripod. I had it resting on a bucket. Maybe ill get a ladder and tape it to the top of the fence...

    Btw wuts the problem with no shirt? Doesnt it make it easier to see technique and mechanics lol?
     
    #41
  42. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    I'm just going to presume then that you're in high school.
     
    #42
  43. stormholloway

    stormholloway Legend

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    My question is, how could you possibly know this?
     
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  44. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    How indeed!
    1. First, consider. First you have to consider OP hits like he's at least a 4.5 player. A 4.5 player hits every ball towards his target. A 3.5 is still trying to make solid contact, not concentrating on target location....at least not compared to a 4.5.
    2. BALL MACHINE ! Not perfect, not the same spin and speed, location and depth every time, but think, WHO SET IT? Where is it set? Where does the ball go? Do you think OP, a 4.5+, knows he's hitting backhands?
    3. He SAYS he hits the ball to WHEREVER the incoming ball allows him to hit!
    4. HE SAYS THIS
    5. Great hitting for 3.5. OK hitting for 4.0. POOR hitting for 4.5.
    6. Am I the only one who sees this?
    7. NOPE, several other experienced tennis players mentioned this.
     
    #44
  45. Ducker

    Ducker Rookie

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    LeeD do you have reading comprehension problems or what? Im hitting the ball where I want when I want. The ball machine is putting the ball back in the same spot everytime, I can hit any part of the court I want from there.

    This thread is rediculous now. I thought that coming on here I would get some solid advice, constructive critism or atleast another perspective. All I've gotten so far is mostly, omg your rich, omg look at your house, omg put a shirt on, omg get a coach, omg hit harder.

    I have gotten a couple good comments with advice and I thank you for that.
     
    #45
  46. eric draven

    eric draven Rookie

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    Ducker: just my two cents

    The pros:
    Your prep and follow through are classic and technically very good in my opinion. It seems to keep your contact point consistent. Head movement is minimal which also keeps your contact point consistent. Racket acceleration through the shot is nice as well.

    The cons:
    Footwork (as many said) but I'm going to get a little more into what I see. Your preparation appears a little lackadaisical but the more I watched the more I attribute this to your feet. They are somewhat "loose" during the shot meaning that when you hit your left foot comes up and it tends to flail behind you. This indicates that you haven't set your feet prior to the shot. This means that your lead shoulder isn't turned enough towards the oncoming ball and thus takes away from your weight transfer into your shot. It also means that you're not rotating fully into the shot. Try setting your feet prior to the shot with a slight knee bend and as you hit you should naturally bring your left hip around into the shot more. That way as your left foot comes off the ground it will move towards the court instead of coming up behind you. This shouldn't happen consciously it should be a result of good footwork and a good shoulder turn. Good luck!!!
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2012
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  47. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    you don't need to hit the majority of your 2HBH's with a closed stance. in a match against a quality opponent if your closed on all your BH's it slows your recovery. Your in essence losing a half step or full step with every BH. With a 2 hander you can easily hit at the least neutral stance so you can immediately push off back with the outside foot as it pivots around following the stroke. It is a good thing to practice against a partner or a ball machine to get a feel for it when its not under match pressure. That half step makes you faster. You have a habit of keeping (dragging) your left foot behind your right foot on the finish kinda like a golf swing. thats a symptom of your feel for the stroke being closed. see video linked below. Djoko hits in a neutral stance where his left foot is kept outside of his right foot during the hit and recovery. On the one BH he hit closed stance his left foot immediately recovers again to an open spot outside his right foot. that is his stroke habit based on optimal foot work and position for recovery. Most kids are taught to hit it like this as well now for reasons of speed and court coverage.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EQFPTf9f-Q&feature=related
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2012
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  48. Nellie

    Nellie Hall of Fame

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    In my opinion, you are not extending far enough through the ball and forward before rotating the shoulders and finishing. Often it looks like you're opening your shoulders too early, causing you to hit a little short armed (bent arms close to the body). Try freezing after contact to see whether you are getting good extension before finishing

    Also, you look a little stiff. Try getting a little more on your toes and bending the knees so you can more easily shift weight and not muscle the stroke.

    It might help you, actually, to practice hitting more softly, but with a more fluid, looping motion to exaggerate the topspin. One problem with a ball machine/wall practice is that we all want to crush that ball, even if it ingrains some bad technique.
     
    #48
  49. PrinceMoron

    PrinceMoron Hall of Fame

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    Just hit every ball to the same spot, then it really is predetermined. Annoys the hell out of your opponent. Then you can move onto telling your opponent where you are going to hit.

    Seriously though if you can hit to the same spot all day, you will beat most of the people you play against.
     
    #49
  50. Ducker

    Ducker Rookie

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    thanks guys those last 4 post were exactly what I had been looking for great stuff. Im going to try and get another video up soon. I want some advice + perspective on my forehand!
     
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