Discussion in 'Stringing Techniques / Stringing Machines' started by Irvin, Aug 3, 2010.
Enjoy let me know if you have any questions.
excellent video. Thanks for sharing!!
Thanks Irvin, very informative.
Nice. Thank you Irvin.
Never done an ATW pattern so I'm definitely bookmarking that link for the future. Thanks Irvin.
I am not advocating using ATW patterns. I would first call the manufacturer to make sure it is OK for the frame first.
I like this pattern mainly because the outside mains are never tied off so I do not have to be concerned with any drawback on those strings which could make them looser. They will slide to the outside though but that should be understandable.
This type of pattern never blocks a hole with two strings covering the grommet hole either, and the tie off holes are closer to the clamp to reduce drawback.
The final benefit is that the tie off strings are always on the top and bottom crosses which are the strings have the least effect on the feel or playability.
I did get one comment on the way I start my mains stringing one on one side then two on the other and two on each side until done. This method means on the second string on one side I can't get my clamps down next to the inside of the frame. That person strings two on the first side then switches. I have talked to other that string 3 on the first side then 6 on the other before switching back. I do not think it makes a big difference.
I'm not sure it really maters either, when I first started stringing I used to string two each side and now I go 3 ahead as you describe above (that is 3 left side, 6 right side, finish left, finish right). The only real difference I find is with my rhythm!
P.S. good vid!
It way you I was talking about earlier as I remember you told me that, but I did not want to mention any names. I could not agree with you more Ash. I don't mind and it don't matter. I started a long time ago on a 360 machine and by stringing 1 then 2 and switching I am always going around the racket in a counter-clockwise motion.
Let's say I string a racket that starts in the throat. I will set my clamp, pulling tension on both center mains, on 1RM at the top of the racket. Then:
tension and clamp 1LM at the bottom,
tension and clamp 1RM at the bottom,
tension and clamp 2RM at the top,
tension and clamp 2LM at the top,
tension and clamp 3LM at the bottom,
tension and clamp 3RM at the bottom,
tension and clamp 4Rm at the top,
This way I am never more than one main ahead on any side and then I go back to even. I have it in my mind this causes the least distortion but I have a 6 point machine and there isn't any distortion anyway that I can see.
On your second pull, have you ever considered going under the throat instead of over? I'm not positive what machine that is, i'm guessing an older version of the 5800, or maybe 8800 (doesn't really matter to my point), but the tensioner on these machines is a little bit lower (diablo vs. holes). I've found less restriction underneath the throat, which (theoretically) should lead to a more consistent tension (less friction by rubbing on the throat area).
Edit: I see now that's a 6004.
On a closer look... this pattern looks really familiar
You are right it is a 6004 but I have a Wise tension head on it. I added a Wise Gamma adapter which makes the tension head pull the string level with the string bed. Over or under will not make a difference now because the deflection is the same. I am not so sure the 2" adapter is necessary.
The adapter was priot to Wise having a diablo on his tension head. This means the string goes into the gripper at an angle. Some times that meant the string slid as the tension was pulled and it damaged the string so I got the adapter.
It does look familiar to this one doesn't it?
The problem I have with that one is that you are going to block some holes you have to come back and go through and you are tying off an outside main at the end. I like to tie off the top and bottom crosses.
Got it, the angle looked pretty pronounced over the throat area, which is why I asked. I haven't seen an updated Wise, so I wasn't sure of the pulling angle.
Actually, YULitle didn't really follow my original directions to a T with his original video. He did have an updated version that (as I recall) was true to the guide, but the version I originally "published" is pretty much identical to yours. I also (strongly) prefer tying off on crosses. I'll string (normal) one piece frames like that, too. I'll end at the top, and use the short side as the top cross and finish the rest of the frame with the long side. i think there are (mostly "Aesthetic") benefits to doing so. Some people judge the quality of a stringer by how firm the outside mains are. It's not very logical, but I guess it illustrates "attention to detail" to them.
ok, i string 2 piece. did when i was young, do that again now that
i have recently gotten back into stringing.
in a nutshell, why would i want or need to know the atw?
i'm not looking to become a guru, but i'd like to know the basics
1,2,3....in case i care to try it sometime.
edit: i guess the big question is why? thx
Why? it's so you can string a racquet from the top down when a racquet has mains that end at the bottom of the frame.
It also makes the string bed feel tighter and you don't loose tension faster than a two piece.
Also in my case I get dumb customers pulling on the last side strings and tell me I strung it too loose.
Wow I can see how YULitle got a little confused. Lots of stuff and pictures to read there but it is a good procedure. Correct me if I am wrong here but your racket skipped 7 and 9 head and throat. You initially skipped the two outside mains and the second cross from the top. Then you ran your crosses down the racket until you got to the second cross from the bottom. To get to the second cross from the bottom you had to block the hole for the last main (10T) on the left side of your racket. This should not be a problem most of the time but is a little different from my pattern. I don't skip that main. I run down to the last cross above the main holes and string the hard weaves then.
Why do it? You have to have a reason!!!!
Very good question. Why in the world would anyone do it if there was not a reason? How about I give you a few good reasons?
How many times have you seen on this board in a post, "My customers will pull on the outside mains and they move....?" Well there is a reason for that. The outside mains do not have anything on the outside of them to keep them in place.
Many stringers increase the tension on the outside mains before they tie them off to try to make the strings stay in place better. I am not one of those stringers and never will be no matter how many has-been-drips-under-pressure (ex-sperts) tell me I should do that.
When you clamp a main and release the tension head the clamp is going to be pulled back a little by the pressure of the string as soon as the equalized pressure of the tension head has been released. It happens. When you clamp a cross and release the tension head the clamp is going to be pulled back a little by the pressure of the string as soon as the equalized pressure of the tension head has been released. It happens too but it happens on a cross a little bit less. Why? Because of the friction of the weave of the cross string and the resistance of the mains strings holding the clamp in place.
Another thing is the cross string grommet hole is going to be closer to the tie off grommet hole than the main string grommet hole was. In most rackets the mains skip 1, 2, or more grommet holes in the head and tie off at a point above those skipped holes. Those skipped holes are for crosses. For example, many Wilson rackets skip 7 and 9 and tie off at 8T. So if I string the racket two piece my mains coming out of 10T tie off at 8T. If I tie off the bottom cross from 7T to 8T the grommet hole is closer to the tie off hole. Less distance is less string that is not tensioned that means less drawback.
But there is still another reason, I know you only asked for one. The angle of the string going into the racket on the outside mains is shaper than the angle of the top and bottom crosses going into the racket. This means I can get the clamp closer to the frame on a cross string than I can on a main. If you have a 6 point mounting stringer the outside mounts many times block the clamps from getting too close also.
But WAIT, there's more. Any time you tie off you are going to have drawback. Doesn't it make sense that if you tie off two times instead of four you will have half the drawback? All this means I will have less drawback when I tie off a cross string rather than a main string and two strings rather than four.
Most stringers agree that the mains provide more feel in the racket than the crosses do. Many players that use gut put a syn gut in the crosses to save money because the crosses don't provide all that much feel. Wouldn't it make sense that the top and bottom crosses provide the least feel? For all those reasons I like the ATW pattern where I can tie off the top and bottom crosses. I do not like to tie off a main unles there is good reason to do it.
Even when you do it ATW the outside mains are going to bend outward easier than the other mains because there is nothing to hold the cross down against the mains to stop them. If you inform them of of why this happens maybe they will understand.
If you want to do a one piece pattern on a frame with mains that end at the bottom/throat. That's the big reason. If you're comfortable stringing two piece (nothing wrong with this) then it's an "optional" thing to know. There are several benefits/drawbacks to each system, neither is any more or less correct (ok, this is debatable).
I disagree with the middle comment. Why would it make the string bed feel tighter? Perhaps on the most outside mains, but the characteristic feel of the stringbed shouldn't (really) change an appreciable amount. Dumb customers shouldn't be blamed, they should be educated!
That's fine, and you're correct. I don't really plan too far ahead for blocked holes, I'd be more concerned about tie offs. Although your method has no real drawbacks in that regard. I've never really had very many problems with blocked holes in general, but the once-in-a-while toughies are painful. The guide I published is a little confusing, but it's really designed to be a step-by-step reference that people will have open while they string. I don't push that pattern, because I think the hard weaves are problematic for many people, and will eventually be slower than just a "traditional" ATW pattern. I don't use the pattern myself very often, I prefer just to string two piece
Yes, educating your customers is the key. The problem is convincing them rather than have them think you're just making excuses. It's a very simple concept! However, having used the "tie off on crosses" technique, I think having tight outside mains is possible, and less so because there's nothing behind the main "holding it down." I think there's a significant amount of tension lost regardless of your technique/compensation for a two piece. I'm not saying this is a bad thing, just something that needs to be understood.
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