Video for tennis dads.

Discussion in 'Junior League & Tournament Talk' started by TennisCoachFLA, Nov 30, 2011.

  1. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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    Little boys also go to the extreme western. It's easy when you're that little to use that grip to hit balls above your head. That's where many balls end up when your under 4 foot tall. Proper, technique, footwork and strike point are necessary at that age and small size to prevent the ball from bouncing over their head. It can be done, just takes patience and practice.
     
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  2. Mikeadelic

    Mikeadelic New User

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    The dad is definitely a nuisance. That's why as a coach, you have to enter a psychological contract with the parents from the very beginning and let them know that when the kid gets on your court, the parents must SHUT IT. That's how I handle my students & their parents, and it's been smooth sailing so far.

    As for the comments screaming "abuse", the kid is a trooper, she can probably handle it. How her dad treats her may not work on other kids who have a softer personality, but as long as she's tough enough to handle it, I wouldn't worry too much. In fact, a kid who talks back like that might even need a parent who is tough to keep her grounded as opposed to letting her go wild.

    On the other hand -- as a parent, if you find yourself having to scream at your kid to do something right... it is 100% your fault, not the kid's. You either 1) don't have the coaching ability to fix the kid's problems or 2) never raised the kid right to be easily coached / motivated. There's not a single kid who was born hating tennis. Kids respond to their environment - and parents play a critical role in giving the kid either a reason to love or to hate the sport.
     
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  3. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    Good stuff. I maintain though that we have no idea what happens when the camera is off. She may talk back a little to what he is doing on camera. Off camera he could be a real nut and she is helpless.

    Not many dads would allow even that stuff on You Tube, saying "waste of time", "looks like you don't even want to try". If he does that on camera, who knows if/how brutal he is off camera.

    My girl is a smart mouth and tough. But I would never go there with some of the stuff he says. There are less personal ways to handle a kid with a chip on their shoulder. I would rather see her run a lap then hear the verbal shots at her.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2011
    #53
  4. Mikeadelic

    Mikeadelic New User

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    Absolutely no disagreement here. To clarify, me saying she can handle it definitely does not mean I condone it. I personally would never do this to anybody's kid, let alone my own when I end up having kids someday.

    I'm thinking this dad is probably so unaware of his own obnoxiousness that he acts the same way off-camera as on. That's why he wouldn't even think about posting something like this on the tube. But then again I'm just taking a wild guess so who knows.

    Bottom line is kids don't need this kind of upbringing. If parents would crack open any youth coaching book, the first chapter would be on how to motivate your kid without falling into abusiveness. The number of parents out there who don't even know such basic knowledge appalls me. People would read books to learn math, science, language, or tennis strokes, but don't ever bother to look up a book on parenting.

    I see too many sports parents who scream and put down their kids and for what? Chasing a bunch of ranking points in the hopes that MAYBE their kid can crack into a D1 school, let alone the pro tour? Then when the kid washes out, not only do they not have any passion left for a great sport, but they grow up into a complete punk as a person.
     
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  5. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    Agreed. His issue was that she was not getting to the balls. I would have gone with more kidding around to motivate. "Ut oh, that court is sticking to your feet!" or "get to the next 10 balls and I will run a lap".

    If you are going to meddle with the coaching, at least do it in a light hearted fashion. At age 14, maybe he could be a little more blunt. At age 9, keep it light.
     
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  6. Number1Coach

    Number1Coach Banned

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    I believe he was to easy with her , if she is not getting to the ball time to run lines!!

    You can tell them to move their feet or just make them run lines and it happens on it's own!
     
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  7. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&...8&tbnw=117&start=0&ndsp=23&ved=1t:429,r:5,s:0

    She won the 12s. Now lets hope some coach has the guts to change her grip. Someone should send her coach this from Robert Lansdorp:

    "The foundation of the forehand is the grip. One of the biggest problems in American junior tennis is the poor foundation so many young players have because of their extreme grips.

    Under the handle, extreme western grips are incredibly common in high level junior tennis. Kids have great success early in their careers because they can hit topspin and get a lot of balls in play. If the ball is high and not too fast, these kids actually look pretty good.

    The limitations don't show up until later, in the older age divisions or when a good young player first tests himself in professional tennis. Now these same kids suddenly don't look so great. They have severe problems handling the pace in the pro game, especially when the ball is low and skidding.

    But nobody talks about these problems. Kids hold the rackets with the extreme grip and think it's alright. Nobody stands up and says that teaching extreme western grips are actually ruining these kids.

    Nobody explains to the parents that if you take your 8-year old to a coach who let's the kid hit with an extreme grip, you're already up the creek - you just won't know it for another 8 years. This is what I call the disaster of teaching methods in American junior tennis."
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2011
    #57
  8. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    Zoo Tennis posted a video of this kid winning the Herr. This is my huge pet peeve with rushing into early tournaments. And whoever is coaching her should be jailed. Not a chance in the world she does not hit a brick wall spinning that forehand grip around to that extreme. Zero power and court penetration. Yet trophies in the 10s-12s.

    Poster child for poor coaching, tournaments before the strokes are ingrained properly, and celebrating early success. Sad, she is working hard and has the body type that could have been a great player.

    The forehands starting at the 40 second mark make me want to drive to their house and pay them to let me fix her dang grip.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=xgd3HP-ixtc
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2011
    #58
  9. Ash_Smith

    Ash_Smith Hall of Fame

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    The really sad thing TCF, is that we know the coach will say "oh, but this way she will have success now and then we will change it later when we need to"

    Those of us with any knowledge now that a)this is damn hard to change the later it goes on and b)there's no reason not to have "correct" technique in the first place as you can still be successful in younger age groups.

    This video of Richard Gasquet from the '99 Petit As in Tarbes shows how similar his technique was at 11 to now. You see the same with Rafa, Henin etc. At 11-12 their technique is already formed, barring minor changes and tweaks as they grow, but the basic shapes are the same.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoPFVd9gMAE&feature=related

    The only player I know who made wholesale changes to technique later in their career was Juan Carlos Ferrero who totally reworked his serve at age 20.

    I'll quite happily fly out if they'd like the help (my expenses aren't too high!)

    Cheers
     
    #59
  10. gully

    gully Semi-Pro

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    ^^^^^
    Wouldn't Gasquet have been 15 or so in '99?
     
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  11. Ash_Smith

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    ^^^It seems my maths sucks! he would have been 13 in that video! apologies!
     
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  12. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    I hear you Ash. How any coach or even a tennis parent could look at the forehands at the .40 second, 1:08, 1:27, and 1:40 marks and allow her to use that grip and swing pattern is beyond me.

    Imagine when she gets to the 16s and some 6 foot Russian girl is blasting balls at her and she tries to respond with that stroke. She either quits tennis or gets injured.

    Your video is awesome. His talent jumps out at you, even at age 13. His feet are amazing.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2011
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  13. rgwarren

    rgwarren Banned

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    I've seen this girl practicing with her dad here at Eddie Herr today. She looked great. The dad is pretty demanding but the girl gives it right back to him. It seems to work for her as I think she is the top seed in the 12's
     
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  14. Crisp

    Crisp Semi-Pro

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    I hate seeing little kids like this using obviously too big of a racket. Screws with the serves mechanics and sometimes those hitches can't be undone.
     
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  15. PTBL

    PTBL Banned

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  16. Ash_Smith

    Ash_Smith Hall of Fame

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    ^^^Aside from the serve (where the footwork has changed significantly), what other major technical changes can you see? For me there isn't much difference from 13 to 16 to now, outside of the evolution's you would expect.

    cheers
     
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  17. TennisCoachIN

    TennisCoachIN Rookie

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    I agree with Ash here. Besides her serve footwork I don't see a lot of significant change. She obviously got bigger and stronger, so her shots look more powerful.

    I definitely think AD is very strong mentally. She has that confidence to go for her shots and the belief that the ball is going in and if it doesn't she is going to try again, this I believe is something she has internally.

    However, our habits define us as people and players. I have seen some YouTube footage of AD. It's like a compound effect the more AD continues with technique that she has, the harder it is later to correct it. Every shot that she hits day and day out will strengthen that knot much more tighter, thus harder to break.

    Again, the compound effect will take place sooner or later for the kids who took the time to learn proper technique from the start. Some of them will catch and surpass her down the road when it really starts to matter.

    From my understanding she is only 11, so that window is closing fast. As hard as it would be she needs to take a break from competition and get her strokes mechanics in order.

    It's the old saying.... Win now or Win later.....
     
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  18. rgwarren

    rgwarren Banned

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    I've seen AD play today her 2nd round here at Eddie Herr. Her serve was looking much better it looks like she is working hard on that. I don't think she has any major flaws in the rest of her game, very nice flat shots that always go in. Very solid and very smart, she looks like a quarterback controlling the field of play. I think she really enjoys the game, she complimented opponent a few times even when loosing points. She acts like an adult and not a 11yr old. I don't see her being passed by 2 many kids, in fact I think she is rapidly catching up to the older girls.
     
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  19. TennisCoachIN

    TennisCoachIN Rookie

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    That's great to hear if AD has improved on her strokes :) I noticed from another post that they show the Eddie Herr online. Hopefully I will catch some of it. I wish her the best.
     
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  20. BMC9670

    BMC9670 Hall of Fame

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  21. tennisbuck

    tennisbuck Professional

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    She is one in the country for her grade on tennis recruiting
    Great racquet head speed the techique will come around
    when she gets some size she can shorten up her swings
    And i didn't see any verbal abuse...
     
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