Video...nickb's strokes.

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by nickb, Apr 23, 2008.

  1. couch

    couch Hall of Fame

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    If you're a 5.0 then you can't play a 4.5 tourney. Most of the time (for 5.0 and up) they just have Open tourneys. Most 5.0's where I'm from don't play too many USTA type tournaments throughout the year. There are some Age Group tourneys and Invitationals that the upper level guys will play in but that's about it.

    A lot of teaching pros and former D-1 guys play 4.5 because they sandbag, not because there isn't competition at 5.0. ;) Sorry if I'm a little cynical but it's kinda funny how bad it is sometimes (sandbagging). The sadder part is when guys get bumped to 5.0 and stop playing because they feel they can't win anymore.
     
  2. WBF

    WBF Hall of Fame

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    Not sure on the rating. Couldn't tell how many balls were in/out or the depth. Based just on how you looked, I would have pegged you at a 5.0 or 5.5, but if you don't have a good amount of experience and are still 18, there's a chance your experience might hurt your level despite obvious talent.

    But then, given that you say you are a serve and volleyer, and you also have what look like excellent groundstrokes... Bah, no idea. 5.0+ would be my official guess. I couldn't see a 4.5 doing jack against those shots (real 4.5's).
     
  3. nickb

    nickb Banned

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    Thanks guys....I dont want to sound big headed or anything but I would prob play 5.0/Open if I came over to the US. I have seen/played 4.5 players...dont think I would have any problems beating them.

    Nick
     
  4. pr0n8r

    pr0n8r Rookie

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    Firstly, really nice strokes. I agree that you look like a 4.5 on the NRTP system, as long as you are confident hitting the way you were in practice during a match. I've seen people with your strokes play anywhere from 4.0 to 5.0, depending on court coverage, anticpation, strategy, etc. 4.5 is a good guess based upon the video.

    Forehand: Your forehand has good racket head acceleration. I think that when you wrap the forhand, you could be more relaxed about it, and instead of stopping your arm, let your arm go all the way across your body and stop naturally.

    Backhand Slice: It looks like you have good control with this stroke. I think that your hitting arm stops a little too soon, and that a more naturaly follow through would be something to consider. Your non-hitting arm also doesn't seem to go back quite enough to aid in keeping your shoulders closed.

    Backhand Drive: So much of a great 1-hander is there. The change I would make is that I woud start with a lower to the ground stance, and stay low during the finish. Also, I think the non-hitting arm could go back and down, instead of back and up. My coach corrected me on that very thing. Instead of making a "Y" type finish, think hitting arm up, non-hitting arm down and back.

    Thanks for posting your video! I enjoyed watching it =D
     
  5. nickb

    nickb Banned

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    Thanks!...I can see everything you said in the video...will work on that during my next session (one thing at a time obv :)).

    Cheers

    Nick
     
  6. Kokopelli

    Kokopelli Rookie

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    Wonderful hitting. The guy on the other side is no slouch either.

    I too noticed that your forehand is a little strange looking.

    1) I feel like you don't hit through the ball enough.
    2) The wraparound looks unnatural to me. Maybe because your wrist stays fixed from beginning to end (without that natural rolling of the wrist post POC to the wraparound).

    Did anyone notice that too, or am I totally off?

    Having written that, I would trade my game for yours any day. Very good!!!
     
  7. couch

    couch Hall of Fame

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    I'd have to go back and look at the video but it looked to me that his forehand gets a little long and "loose" on the backswing (at the end) and kinda stiff on the follow-through.
     
  8. WBF

    WBF Hall of Fame

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    I remember being impressed with one father at a F/S tournament... he handled my serves better than most college players I've come up against, and was handling both my and my dad's (5.0+) shots with ease. Talking with him after, we found out he used to play satellites and other high level tennis... This year I found out he also plays on a 4.5 team!

    My guess is that some people might be using 4.5 to refer to the top players who play at 4.5, but are actually better players, as opposed to *real* 4.5 players.
     
  9. Kokopelli

    Kokopelli Rookie

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    Yup, could not have written it better myself. The take-back is very natural looking (though some might say overly loopy and excessive - not me). The follow-through looks stiff and mechanical. It is as though he's trying to decelerating it (stop the wraparound) too quickly.

    Nick - I wish I could hit like that.
     
  10. nickb

    nickb Banned

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    Thanks for your kind comments Kokopelli!

    I can see it from the video too....my follow through looks "forced" and not as natural as my take back...I will work to smooth it out.

    Nick
     
  11. Kokopelli

    Kokopelli Rookie

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    That's might not be a good idea.

    From my perspective - if it works wonderfully, why mess with it? But I'm looking at tennis as recreational and a form of exercise (your perspective might differ), so consistency is more important to me than "text book perfection." It's just that I had seen too many youtube videos of professional strokes, and that's what I noticed in your forehand.
     
  12. nickb

    nickb Banned

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    Yeah...you might be right. I dont think I would change that much really...I need to use the left arm more for sure.

    I play tennis because I love the game but I like to compete/win...when I play I play to win.

    Nick
     
  13. 1012007

    1012007 Hall of Fame

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    You been playing for 4 years:)

    I been playing since i was 1 and im not that good:(
     
  14. zidane339

    zidane339 Hall of Fame

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    Very nice strokes Nick.Really enjoyed watching the video and I am extremly jealous of your one hander. : )

    I stayed at Cambridge University for a couple of weeks two summers ago. I had the chance to play on the famous British grass courts. I was wondering if you ever do the same and if you enjoy it as much as other surfaces?
     
  15. Photoshop

    Photoshop Professional

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    Wow, TW people actually rating someone as a 5.0?:shock:

    Fantastic strokes, nick!
     
  16. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

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    He might as well go pro if they keep this up!

    Remember that Kohlshreiber was a 4.0 at best! :shock:
     
  17. Pusher

    Pusher Professional

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    Thats what I'm saying-very few people have a 5.0+ rating. In the entire southern section there are only two that show up in the rankings. What happens is the 5.0's are playing 4.5 because they don't play any other 5.0's. And playing only opens sort of shuts you out of league play. The talent level gets pushed down into the 4.5 level. At least thats my understanding.
     
  18. FedererISBetter

    FedererISBetter Rookie

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    I enjoy watching your strokes mate, especially that one hand backhand.. lol, I use two hands and it just a mysterious thing on the one hand. I believe through time and experience, youll be able to read the ball better and allows for a better anticipation in shots. Like reading those short balls, you seem to have a little trouble in controling those, but the rest looks great. I think 5.0 is legit, I see people in open tournies and college division players who hit around like that.
     
  19. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    Hi Nick,

    Saw your video.

    At times, your stroke seems a bit mechnical, however, I think is more in your followthrough and your takeback. Nothing to be alarmed about.

    However, a few things concerned me which you definetly need to consider.

    1. Footwork and Movement
    a. In a nutshell, it wasn't that great. It seems your strokes matured fine, but your footwork has lagged somewhat in the training area. You need to bring this up through workouts and drills. Your footwork seemed clumpy although I did see you try to stay on your toes. It was more in how your feet moved and how they brought you to the ball.

    b. Movement: Your movement to get to the ball was somewhat sluggish and when you did get to the ball, at times you were a bit off-balance and didn't have good position on the ball. In other words, you were fighting somewhat to get the ball back. Movement training, ball recognition development, footwork patterns, and footspeed drills will help you here along with saying that good ol' fashion "HIT-BOUNCE-HIT".

    2. Knee bend: On your backhand (and your forehand) your center of gravity was a bit too high. Being too high will cause a bit of hitting the ball with your arm. Bending your knees more will help you hit the ball with your legs more then your arm. This means you will be able to coil and uncoil into the ball using your shoulder rotation more as the ball comes into contact.

    3. Shoulder rotation: This was good, however, there is always work to be done in this area. Keep working on bringing the front shoulder under the chin on the takeback and the back shoulder under the chin in the followthrough.

    4. Non-dominant arm: You really need to learn to use this better to help keep you in the shot and to help in the acceleration of your hitting arm. At times, this arm was dangling by your side instead of folding into your body helping to keep your kinetic energy going into the ball. If a player gets used to this they don't realize they are compensating by arming the ball more.

    5. Take the ball on the rise: Start working on it by moving in towards the baseline more.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2008
  20. nickb

    nickb Banned

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    Hi,

    Thanks!

    I do play on grass 3-4 times a week in the summer. A club near me has some of the best grass courts in the country...another has really good grass courts also. I love it....my favourite surface. I like to come into the net...nothing like grass for that. I am lucky that just near my house there is a tournament which is played just on grass...a 10k$ event...open singles...the works...20+ grass courts and week of tennis :) Love it!.

    Nick
     
  21. nickb

    nickb Banned

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    I know...I dont know what to say!

    Thanks!

    Nick
     
  22. nickb

    nickb Banned

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    Cheers for that :)...I do have a little trouble with short balls...you might not be able to tell from the video but my grip is pretty extreme.

    Nick
     
  23. nickb

    nickb Banned

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    I have been waiting for your post Bill....your points make complete sense...I will get out there and work on them as soon as I can.

    Thanks.

    Nick
     
  24. nickb

    nickb Banned

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    Just keep on practicing..

    I play every day for at least 2 hours...I need some good coaching from now...its worth the money if it changes some things in my game for the better before its too late.

    Nick
     
  25. charaseac

    charaseac Rookie

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    nice.. love your backhand
     
  26. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    That's actually hard to do based on a video, especially an isolated video just on the player, since the NTRP computer ratings are based solely on your win-loss record in league and tournament matches and not on what your strokes look like. For example, one can have really ugly strokes but if they manage to win most of their matches, they would have a high rating. Likewise, one could have beautiful strokes, but if they can't win much (maybe due to poor footwork, poor stamina, slow speed, poor mental focus, lack of competitive spirit, poor match strategy and tactics, poor serves and/or returns, etc.) they would have a low rating. Thus, it's really not possible to give an accurate NTRP computer rating based upon a video.

    With that said, you do have very strong strokes so as long as the rest of your tennis match playing ability is up to par with your strokes, then I'd say you're at least a 5.0.
     
  27. couch

    couch Hall of Fame

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    I kinda understand what you are saying but if you are a legit 5.0 then you shouldn't be playing 4.5. It's pretty cut and dry. Now, if you're not a legit 5.0 then you're playing in the right level (4.5).

    You are right though when you say there aren't a lot of 5.0+ guys. We only have two 5.0 teams in our whole state and we have to play each other four times to get everyone qualified and then we are playing the best 2 out of 3 to determine who goes to Sectionals.

    My point is that there are guys rated 5.0 out there but a lot of them don't play USTA anymore because their ego is too big and they'll get beat more than they are accustomed to. At least this is the case in my state. I am probably a middle-of-the-road 5.0 player and don't mind getting beat (not that I like it) ;) but I didn't play tennis as a junior and I'm looking to continually improve. So most of these 5.0 guys are sitting out and want to re-verify at 4.5 so they can win.

    If you are in SC then there are tons of 5.0 level players there. SC almost always seems to have the best team in the Southern Section.

    Just curious, what level do you play?
     
  28. nickb

    nickb Banned

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    Cheers.

    10 char
     
  29. nickb

    nickb Banned

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    I know what your saying BP...I just wanted to see what people would rate me (like someone would self rate from the NTRP playing chart thing).

    This may sound strange but this is the first time I have seen what my strokes look like! I always thought my forehand was very ugly and my backhand OK looks wise...im really pleased with what I see on the vids.

    Nick
     
  30. 1012007

    1012007 Hall of Fame

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    you have never got filmed??:) I find that it is a very good way to improve especially on serves.
     
  31. johnny ballgame

    johnny ballgame Professional

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    I'll agree that the forehand is atypical in a few ways:

    1. The non-hitting arm thing that BB and others mention (dangling instead of tucking);

    2. The finish is over the shoulder. Wrap around the body seems much more common these days;

    3. Is there is a little hop with the footwork?

    Anyway, the acceleration looks disgusting (in a good way) and he seems to be hitting the crap out of the ball.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2008
  32. nickb

    nickb Banned

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    Well I have had a coach film my serve on his phone before when I tried to change my service action (couldnt do it).

    That reminds me...I will take the cam and hit some serves during my hit 2moro.

    Nick
     
  33. 1012007

    1012007 Hall of Fame

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    OK cool looking forward to seeing some bombs:)

    I used your Mfil today again and its a beast for serving. I say i get 1/3 more power than my LM on serves:)
     
  34. nickb

    nickb Banned

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    LOL...my serves not the best but it does the job :)

    The M-Fils a good racket...the SW is really high...great for crushing the ball!

    Nick
     
  35. jasonbourne

    jasonbourne Professional

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    This is excellent feedback from a teaching pro.
    Thanks BB for providing your input. I had similar suggestions in my mind, but I don't have the writing skills you have to clearly articulate.

    Nick, you have a bright future in tennis ahead of you. Awesome effort on your part to be able to hit the ball like that within four short years.
     
  36. nickb

    nickb Banned

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    BB really is a great coach and like you say his writing skills are the best on this board. Thanks again BB!

    Cheers Jason for the kind words....I work my *** off every day...I feel good that it has paid off :)
     
  37. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    ^^^Sure has. You hit the crap out of the ball. :)
     
  38. nickb

    nickb Banned

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    haha...thats what the game is all about :)

    Nick
     
  39. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    Thanks for the recognition and you are welcome for the advice. Keep hitting.
     
  40. Ultra2HolyGrail

    Ultra2HolyGrail Hall of Fame

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    Let's not get carried away nick. 5.0 is the equal to a scratch golfer. Were talking about solid groundtrokes-footwork-serves-etc. Going by footwork alone you are not 5.0 yet. Many 5.0's were juniors who competed in usta.. To get to 5.0 you would have to play quite a few tournaments as a junior and be able to do well, go far in draws. Or get there or past 5.0 in college.. And for a adult who never played juniors-college- it would take many many tournaments and matches. Kids have a big advantage over adults taking up the game because they are young and can play everyday. But anyway 5.0 is usually a strong high ranked junior with many tournaments under their belt. Open level are former D1,some d2 players, 5.5+ at the top.
     
  41. nickb

    nickb Banned

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    Im not getting carried away...a USTA rating doesnt even apply to me as im in the UK...

    I just asked for a guess on what rating I might be...whats it matter anyway.

    As for Open level if I can get in the draws whats stopping me...just because im not a 5.5+ doesnt mean I cant play. I can get on a challenger reserve list and even get the chance to play if they get a load of drop outs but it doesnt make me a pro.

    I just like to compete.
     
  42. Ultra2HolyGrail

    Ultra2HolyGrail Hall of Fame

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    What do they have in the UK? Any tournaments for juniors Adults?
     
  43. nickb

    nickb Banned

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    LTA ratings/rankings...

    We have quite a few junior tournaments...not many for adults. A few open tournaments that I play near me...not really that great to be honest. I just dont get the chance to get out to all the different places...I love playing matches...hoping to play 15-20 tournaments in the summer.
     
  44. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    ^^ I think you would compete well in the 5.0 division. What separates a 5.0 (who wins and does well in tourneys/leagues) from anyone under that is consistency.

    I've said it before>>>> people have this false illusion that a 5.0 is god-like. They aren't. many of them are hacks. I just played the # 3 seed in a tourney ( he is a 5.0+), I'm not. He has tons of match experience>>>> I haven't played a tourney in 15+ years. Guess what??? He didn't role over me. I was hanging with him, and the biggest difference was he just had a little more consistency and more match experience.
     
  45. nickb

    nickb Banned

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    Thats cool...you seem to be playing alot of tournaments..hows it all going?

    I've played some top world ranked senior doubles players who missed about 4 balls in our match..consistency is key :)

    Ps love the club you LIVE at!...very nice.
     
  46. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    I just played that one tourney, and will now be playing another tourney in May. There were some unbelievable players there, inclduing a guy who was recently a top 300 ATP pro (he won the open division). I made it to the finals of the consolation, which goes to show you, 5.0's aren't all that, if a guy like me, who hasn't played a tourney in so long, could do so well.

    Over the last two months I've been playing/drilling a lot more, and with very high quality players, including yesterday where I was drilling with the # 1 doubles player in the nation and # 4 singles player (both over 35). I have also been able to warm up a couple of the players in the nationals clay court championships going on right now.

    I'm getting more confidence, consistency, and really starting to smack the ball.

    And yes, the club I live at makes it easy when you have so many great players hanging around. Too bad I wasn;t able to drill with or **drill** Dementiava. :)
     
  47. Ultra2HolyGrail

    Ultra2HolyGrail Hall of Fame

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    Yup. They generally dont miss many easy shots. Not to say they hit amazing shots all the time either.

    Lol that might be going to far Drak. A 5.0 on his game is a solid player. Although i agree some think 5.0 is god like, people also throw the term around to loosely, he's a 5.0-5.5 etc. Unless you've been a player at these levels, many just dont know and haven't a clue what to look for to rate somebody. My friend was ranked #1 in 4.5's one year, when we where talking about teaching he asked me, how do i teach lol.
     
  48. couch

    couch Hall of Fame

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    This is so very true. I thought to myself and chuckled because I'm a scratch golfer on the practice range but more like a 4.0 on the course these days. Now when I was playing a lot that was a different story, but I digress. :)

    As some other posters have stated, just having the strokes doesn't make one a certain level. That's what's so unique about tennis is that you can have the strokes and the mental aspect can hold you back or you can have the mental aspect and your strokes can hold you back.
     
  49. Vision84

    Vision84 Hall of Fame

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    nickb do you know anyone named Tim Holes? He used to play for University of Leeds and coached around there I think.
     
  50. nickb

    nickb Banned

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    haha...thats great!...good luck in the May tourni....id love to "drill" with Dementiava too :)
     

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