video of high level 94 player at copper bowl

Discussion in 'Junior League & Tournament Talk' started by floridakeys, Jan 13, 2009.

  1. floridakeys

    floridakeys New User

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    #1
  2. Ronny

    Ronny Hall of Fame

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    wow, look at 36secs in...he cheated sooo badly
     
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  3. SoCal10s

    SoCal10s Hall of Fame

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    wow what a cheat

    wow what a cheat,who is this guy? what age division ?
     
    #3
  4. Ronny

    Ronny Hall of Fame

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    94, so im guessing 14's
     
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  5. Petekbladetour1

    Petekbladetour1 Semi-Pro

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    he is a big cheat!!!
    by the way im 14 and my shots are just as good as his :)
     
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  6. Moz

    Moz Hall of Fame

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    What an odious little ****.
     
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  7. scraps234

    scraps234 Hall of Fame

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    sweet i was there! but yeah he did cheat
     
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  8. joshburger

    joshburger Guest

    Cheatttttttterrrr
     
    #8
  9. jamesbond4

    jamesbond4 New User

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    that call in jr tennis is very acceptable. Everyone knows that the backline is the hardest to call so they figure the line is out. pretty rediculous i know but its something the players have to deal with
     
    #9
  10. tenniscp

    tenniscp Semi-Pro

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    Did you post this thread because you were impressed with the level of play or was your intention to expose the kid for making a bad call?

    I do agree, the kid does make a wrong call, but he does it rather quickly and convincingly, which could point to one of two scenarios:

    1) He is a master at making bad calls and does it in style OR
    2) While running hard to track down a well struck ball by his opponent, he makes a wrong call, but considering the angle and speed of the ball, it was not intentional.

    To label someone a cheater, there has to be more than one instance where bad calls are made. Unless there is history with this particular kid (whom you do mention by his first and last name, so I am assuming you have an invested interest here) that you are aware of.
     
    #10
  11. MIGHTY MANFRED THE WONDER

    MIGHTY MANFRED THE WONDER Semi-Pro

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    Actually, it must have been sent along pointing out an ironic submission to yoputube; I doubt the youtube poster even saw the bad call on the tape and posted it, which kind of confirms your idea the kid made one isolated call.

    However, there has been numerous posts lately concerning the amount of obvious cheating that has been on the increase and in 2009 already seen in Arizona at the Winternationals and the Copper Bowl.

    Lets put this in perspective; All the little children, running around an adult size court with pencil- like physiques and huge feet dealing with large amounts of invested money, expectations, and sense of entitlement hanging on their shoulders.

    Guys spitting water on opponents equipment, guys from So. Cal nick named "psycho", not shaking hands, following the referees to the scoring table berating them all the way; All the classy stuff that makes junior tennis what it is.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2009
    #11
  12. eeytennis

    eeytennis Semi-Pro

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    First, to comment on the video...that kid got mad when he missed his FIRST serve...I never understand why people do that, that is why you have a SECOND SERVE!!!

    Secondly, the cheating and player behavior has gotten absolutely absurd on both the junior and college level. I watch some people and wonder how they DON'T feel badly about how they behave...whether is cheating on line calls, berating their opponent because they thought they made a bad line call, mouthing off to coaches (in the college level), and much much more. I was watching a local tournament and one girl was arguing left and right over her opponents line calls, when the calls were good. Are coaches teaching their students to do this? To get in the heads of their opponents? Whenever I compete I give my opponent the benefit of the doubt and DON'T argue their line calls. People who argue line calls come across as a jerk most of the time...especially with woman players.
     
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  13. ayyhwang

    ayyhwang Rookie

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    haha i played ognjen at the tennis plaza cup in 2008 b14s and lost 6-0,6-0
     
    #13
  14. Fred

    Fred Rookie

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    Agreed. It's not at all inconceivable that he honestly missed that call. Who here can say that they don't occasionally miss a call? You try not to, but chances are you do. (Though if you're being honest, about half of your missed calls should benefit your opponent - in the long run). Cheating certainly occurs, but let's not label this kid a cheater based on such scant evidence.
     
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  15. GeorgeLucas

    GeorgeLucas Banned

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    #15
  16. rosenstar

    rosenstar Professional

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    First serve is crucial to winning a match. The first serve is your chance to take the offensive. Not only that, but teach pros have definitely emphasized the importance of a high first serve percentage to these kids. Also this clip looks like it was one point mid way through the match. If that's the case it's quite possible that his first serve has been failing him this match. Take it from a former tournament player; it's incredibly frustrating when you loose your first serve.

    These kids aren't taught to play matches, they're taught to win matches, at all cost. Most academies condone this behavior. They see it as something that can't hurt. I've been told many times at academies to "cheat back" if necessary, but I've never really been cheated out of a match. Of course I've been hooked on many many calls, but it's never lost me a match.

    As far as the college game goes, the higher level you play at, you'll see that players show more respect. matches with players at the bottom of the ladder can get ugly, you don't usually see it at the 1 and 2 spots though.
     
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  17. william7gr

    william7gr Professional

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    I wish I could hear what they are saying . . .
     
    #17
  18. l_gonzalez

    l_gonzalez Professional

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    Gaston Gaudio got double-bageled by Federer a few years ago and he's a French Open champion. Keep your chin up, happens to just about everyone at some point!
     
    #18
  19. eeytennis

    eeytennis Semi-Pro

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    I am a competitive player and I know that it's frustrating when all your opponent is seeing is 2nd serves...but getting mad like that shows your opponent that you are frustrated and possibly easier to beat mentally.

    I think it's awful that academies would teach that...to "cheat back"...I don't care if it gets in their opponents head, most truly good opponents wouldn't let it affect them anyway, and the person who "cheated back" looks like a bad sport with some sportsmanship issues.
     
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  20. rosenstar

    rosenstar Professional

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    as far as showing anger on the court, yes it can hurt your game, but sometimes it just happens, especially for juniors. The mental game is the biggest difference between the juniors and pros. You can't go to a junior tournament without seeing a few melt downs. It's just the nature of the sport; It's a lot of pressure and it's all on one person. It's tough for a young kid to understand that "it's just a sport" when there spending a minimum of 2 hrs on the court each day. When that's the case, it's not just a sport, it's life. Pressure builds up, showing frustration is nearly inevitable.

    And I agree that cheating back is wrong, but what can you do? These kids really don't understand that there is life beyond tennis. It's the nature of the sport (at least in America). Again, these kids don't care about sportsmenship; they care about winning.
     
    #20
  21. Tennis_Bum

    Tennis_Bum Professional

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    That was way in, by five inches at least. The kid cheated. No doubt in my mind. He had time to look at the ball cleanly. He was in a weak position so he decided to win the point by cheating as opposed to hitting it back with a weak reply and loose the point anyway.
     
    #21
  22. autumn_leaf

    autumn_leaf Hall of Fame

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    i agree with most and say that's a cheat. i don't wear my glasses when i play and even i could see that was in.

    it would've been more likely it was a mistake if his opponent hit a hard flat onto the baseline but that was a very loopy shot. i see that there was a guy standing at the net, is he a ref?? cause he ain't doing his job!!

    on another note i see that my spell check isn't picking up "ain't" as a misspelling; has it suddenly become a word?
     
    #22
  23. rosenstar

    rosenstar Professional

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    I remember that in my junior tournaments, umpires couldn't overrule unless the call was questioned and close by them. Usually they don't do anything except call foot faults and lecture you during a change over about losing your temper haha
     
    #23
  24. ClarkC

    ClarkC Hall of Fame

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    Here's what I see on the video:

    1. Player gets mad when he misses his first serve.
    2. Player then hits a very good kick second serve and plays a good point with lots of good angle shots from both players.
    3. Player then calls an obviously good shot out.
    4. Player then engages in conversation with someone off to the right. Is he being coached in between points?

    I can only assume that an enemy of this kid has posted the video.
     
    #24
  25. Fred

    Fred Rookie

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    Five inches?!? At least? It clipped the inside of the line. That isn't nearly five inches.
     
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  26. tenniscp

    tenniscp Semi-Pro

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    I agree with Fred. The ball is in but it touches the line on the inside. Upon further review, I notice a line judge standing in the middle and actually agreeing with an out call (so much for these refs!!!), there must have been a reason why the ref was there.

    After that I hear someone conversing with Samarjic, who in turn asks his opponent to calm that party down. I guess, there were some pleasantries uttered by that person addressed to Samarjic.

    All in all, not a pleasant situation, however, nothing that does not take place in junior tennis in US. One thing is for sure though, that Samarjic does possess a pretty good kick serve and looks like he hits the ball pretty well.
     
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  27. TennisLover17

    TennisLover17 Semi-Pro

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    Wow that was a reallllllllly bad call
     
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  28. babolatking

    babolatking Rookie

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    Well that kid made a realllllly good call
     
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  29. tennisguyak

    tennisguyak Semi-Pro

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    He knew it was in. (at 35 sec.) otherwise he wouldn't have tried to describe how far out it was. I hate when people do that. But I did play against one really good team that said if they weren't sure of a call, their coach made them call it against themselves. I thought that was pretty cool of them
     
    #29
  30. tenniscp

    tenniscp Semi-Pro

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    How can you be so sure? Is that what you do? When you make a bad call , do you engage in a lengthy description of how far it was out?

    Or does making a quick and snappy out call necessarily mean that it was the right call?

    The kid certainly makes a wrong call, but unless there is additional evidence that he has been making bad calls the whole match, then we will never know.

    As it stands now, it is an isolated incident of a bad call. Certainly not enough to label the kid a cheater, otherwise all the people who ever touched the racquet and a ball are cheaters, because we all have made wrong calls.
     
    #30
  31. mrmo1115

    mrmo1115 Hall of Fame

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    The match was vs Gage Brymer and Samardzic won 6-4 in the third, does anyone know who he conversed with during the video? Definitely couldn't be coaching b/c there was a blind ref on the court who couldn't overule that easy hook on the baseline at 36 secs.

    edit; now looking at the vid one more time, i think its actually someone from brymer's side who knew it was in and started to converse w/ samardzic, resulting in samardzic to tell the guy, "ask the linejudge , he/she said it was out", before starting to wind up for serve for the next point...

    USTA needs some new and good line judges BAD ! !!!
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2009
    #31
  32. tennis1967

    tennis1967 New User

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    Looks like the guy pulled it off right under the refs nose.:twisted:
    How cool was that.
    Ognjen RULES!!
     
    #32
  33. deddied

    deddied Rookie

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    ayywhang, i lost to him 1-1
     
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  34. tenniscp

    tenniscp Semi-Pro

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    Wow, that is a lot of information. Do you happen to know what the score was at the time when the call was made. Was it a crucial point?

    Is there a campaign in progress to expose or out Samardzic? So many people seem to want to accuse him of cheating, has he beaten a lot of juniors and they ganged up on him or is he really a cheater that has made bad calls before?
     
    #34
  35. SmAsH999

    SmAsH999 Rookie

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    my god, this guy is such a cheater
     
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  36. tenniscp

    tenniscp Semi-Pro

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    BTW, Samardjic just got to the semis of 16's level 3 National in Florida, had a good win over Gordon Watson (was one of the top 1993's). Anybody has videos of this match? Just kidding
     
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  37. bet

    bet Banned

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    Yes. It was just inside the line but when the other kid asks him "how far was it out?", Samarjic indicates with his hands, well over 5 inches out. Sorry Samrjic defenders, no top junior has eyesight/judgemnt that bad on a ball he was clearly on top of and looking at, which had a high arc and was not particularly fast.

    He knew. Though he might have well been actively trying to delude himself. It happens, under pressure, but nothing excuses it. Shameful.

    How many other points were affected because the other kid has to deal with being ripped off in a tight match. He looks to be trying to deal with it well, but you cannot help but thing about a blatant rip-off like that, and that alone, means your focus is not as good as it would have been. That bad call may actually have cheated him out of a number of points.
     
    #37
  38. Fred

    Fred Rookie

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    1) I was responding to a claim that the ball landed five inches in, which it most certainly did not.

    2) His back was turned when he indicated how far out the ball was, so it's hard to tell exactly how far apart his hands were. That said, it does not appear that they were nearly five inches apart. I would add that players are not always precise when they indicate how far out a ball was.

    3) It was one point. It's a big leap to suggest that his opponent may have directly or indirectly been cheated out of numerous points.
     
    #38
  39. bet

    bet Banned

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    I don't think it's a big leap at all. Being blatantly ripped off, always leads to thought about it (even if it is effort NOT to think about it) and distracts from the task at hand.

    Even pros complained about Connors or Mac's antics with the umpire and that was far less personal and direct, than having a point directly taken away from you through intentional cheating.

    The fact is, that aside from being robbed of a point, the opponent ALSO had to deal with mental repercussions of the injustice and the worries about when and where it might happen again. I'm sure he wondered what the umpire was thinking as well. This actually often has a bigger effect, irritation, hesitation, distraction, often leads to a few additional points lost in the coming points even if the player seems to have handled it "well".
     
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  40. 10isDad

    10isDad Hall of Fame

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    Being from the Southwest, I can pretty much guarantee if the umpire was on court she was called there, so somebody felt they had been cheated prior.

    It's pretty rare that an umpire from the SW actually roams between courts. There are a couple who do, but the umpire that is on court is definitely NOT one of those umps. She is very non-confrontational, tending to always agree with the call (right or wrong) and if not called on court, is usually chatting with other umps.

    We've got one who loves to roam between courts and call foot-faults. Nothing wrong in that. There are a couple of lady umps who are great. They won't take any guff, they're active, preferring to actually monitor their courts pretty often. Most of the others, eh not so much.
     
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  41. Fred

    Fred Rookie

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    The opponent bears some responsibility for how they allow a perceived bad/dishonest call to affect them. I know how frustrating it can be when it happens, but if there was a secondary effect of the bad call/calls, the other player is at least partially to blame.
     
    #41
  42. bet

    bet Banned

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    Now be careful here. You could certainly say that the player has no choice but to deal with the situation in the best manner they can. HOWEVER, this does not mitigate the ultimate responsibility of the original offender. Particularly when his act was intentional.

    For example, an arsonist sets my house on fire, in the "heat"(pun intended) of the moment, I don't call the fire department as soon as I could, (perhaps I stop to chase the offender down the street for a minute, or perhaps I try to get somebody out of the house first), the firefighters, don't do a great job of isolating the fire and it spreads to two other houses. Do the firefighters and I bear "blame" for the other 2 houses? Perhaps, to some degree, but even if we do(and it's arguable), it does not absolve the arsonist for the burning down of THREE houses! (note also that he didn't like any of the 3 homeowners so even though he MAY have intended only to burn one, he actually benefits from all three!)
     
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  43. Fred

    Fred Rookie

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    I didn't say that it mitigated the responsibility of the person who cheated for the points he cheated his opponent out of. But, the secondary effect of the opponent losing his focus cannot be blamed solely on the cheater. Sure, the opponent may not have lost his focus if not for being cheated, but it was his own mental fragility/temper that led to the loss of focus and thus a loss of additional points. If a policeman is called to the scene of a petty theft at a convenience store, which causes him to be late in responding to a subsequent bank robbery, allowing the perpetrators to rob the bank and escape, is the petty thief responsible for the bank robbery?

    Using your analogy, I think it would be more apt if the person whose house was set on fire accidentally set his neighbor's house on fire. Perhaps in a panic he runs over to his neighbor's house across the street to call 911 and inadvertently knocks over a container of gasoline in the garage, trips, and drops his cigarette into the pool of gas, setting the house ablaze. Or, while chasing down the arsonist, he fires shots at him and accidentally hits an innocent bystander.

    In any case, I'm still not convinced that Samardzic knew the ball was out, and even if he did, it may have been an isolated incident that had little effect on the match outside of that point.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2009
    #43
  44. anski24

    anski24 New User

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    oh crap thats oggy, quite unfortunate, even tough he did cheat alot of kids obviously have cheated hes just unlucky it came out on camera i heard he got in some troublle for this
     
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