Vilas vs Orantes in the US Open 1975

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by Vegito, Mar 14, 2011.

  1. Vegito

    Vegito Professional

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    Did anyone see that match? What do you remember about it? Could Vilas have defeated Connors in the final? What do you think about this pic?

    [​IMG]
     
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  2. JAY1

    JAY1 Semi-Pro

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    Oh! The good old days!
     
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  3. subban

    subban Rookie

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    Well, Orantes beat Connors in the Final, so I don't think it is that far a stretch to think Villas could have beaten Connors in the final. And this was when I think Forrest Hills was on clay, a surface that is more suited to Argentine and Spanish players since they grow up playing on that surface.
     
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  4. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Wish I could see this match. I believe Orantes trailed 0-5 in the fourth set and was down match points, but came back to win in 5 sets.

    Orantes beating Connors in the final was a big upset. It was thought that Orantes would be too tired after that marathon comeback win over Vilas to beat Connors, but Orantes was still on such a high from beating Vilas the way he did and he used that momentum to beat Connors.
     
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  5. pc1

    pc1 Legend

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    I know it technically was an upset against Connors but I saw Orantes throughout that tournament and I thought he was playing at the highest level. I really didn't think it was much of an upset.

    I was lucky enough to be at that match and it obviously had long grueling rallies. I watched the match intently and when it was 5-0 in favor of Vilas I moved to a seat near the portal so I could leave quickly. Well you know the story, I had to be there for a much longer time. :(

    Orantes defeated Nastase, Vilas and Connors to win that US Open. That's pretty impressive. Incidentally he was in total control during his match against Nastase despite the fact Nastase won one set. Nastase played very well in my opinion but Orantes was too much for him.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2011
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  6. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Great that you actually saw the match, pc1 :)

    I have seen the 1975 US Open final, and I seem to remember the commentators speculating that Orantes might be too fatigued to beat Connors, but Orantes showed hardly any signs of fatigue and actually looked in the zone at times. Orantes played very smart tennis to win.
     
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  7. rainingaces

    rainingaces Legend

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    Are those CB 3.3s?
     
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  8. pc1

    pc1 Legend

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    Weird thing is that Orantes could almost get into a "touch" zone where the ball seems to be on a string to him. He hit that zone at 0-2 in the third set and won the last six games to win the set. Maybe it's faulty memory because it was long time ago but those six games seemed to pass by really quickly, relatively speaking of course. I was a Vilas fan at that time because he was on constantly on the PBS tennis broadcasts during the Summer tennis circuit and I grow to enjoy his play. But in retrospect I'm not sure if Orantes' best on har tru wasn't better than Vilas' best.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2011
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  9. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    It was one of Orantes peaks.He was a player of peaks, when everything was flowing and his confidence brimmed.Here is a guy that has beaten all the great players from the end of the 60´s to the early 80´s.All of them, and more than once.

    I recall that he was called "Lazarus" Orantes, because of that resurection, which was almost a miracle, similar to Cochet vs Tilden in 1927.In fact, Orantes has been one of the greatest, if not the greatest himself, specialist in comebacks.

    He won the 1976 Masters final after a great comeback.He beat Nastase on a comeback on DC tie, and did the same vs taylor in another come back miracle.Finally, he won the Barcelona event over Dibbs... after another legendary comeback.
    He beat Connors, even easier, in the 1977 Indianapolis finals.Indy was one of the top clay courts tournaments, a sort of Master 9 of today.
     
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  10. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Interesting about Nastase, and impressive. I always think of the Vilas and Connors matches, but with Nastase in there that's a great set of wins in the last 3 rounds.

    I think so too. Vilas hit more impressive winners in that '77 final, but what Orantes did in the '75 final was so solid, so free of errors, he shut Connors out. He gave Connors virtually nothing to work with, no way to get into the match.
     
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  11. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    If Vilas had beaten Orantes, I have a hard time seeing him beat Connors in the final. They met in the '76 semis and Connors overpowered him 4, 2 and 1. Of course in '76 Connors was playing great ball, and maybe in '75 he might not have done the same to Vilas. But Vilas really had his breakthrough as a champion in '77, first by winning RG and then with that truly great victory over Connors at USO. Could he have reached that self-assurance as early as '75? Maybe but I doubt it.
     
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  12. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    I'm looking up these matches, but he has only one Davis Cup match against Nastase, a straight-set loss: http://www.daviscup.com/en/players/player/profile.aspx?playerid=10002336

    He does have a win over Nastase in doubles from two sets down. And a five-set win in singles over Taylor, from 2 sets to 1 up.
     
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  13. gavna

    gavna Hall of Fame

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    I was a ballboy at that match and I can tell you that when Orantes started his comeback Vilas started talking to himself on the changeovers and was totally gassed. He hit a wall and Orantes just keep grinding Vilas was a mess after - he could hardly breathe towards the end of the 5th set and remember this was before Tiriac took over his training...etc it was after this loss that Vilas asked Tiriac to "help" him.
     
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  14. borg number one

    borg number one Legend

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    Great live accounts PC1 and Gavna! It's great to hear from posters that were there at a match between two great players. It sounds like Orantes was at a great level during that entire tournament on the "rubico" courts as we called them. Gavna, that's very interesting that you mentioned that match and how Vilas asked for Tiriac's assistance. He did push Vilas very hard with his training and it paid off later.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2011
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  15. Vegito

    Vegito Professional

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    Wow, great answers! It´s awesome to find people who were there! Do you think also Vilas got nervous? He was so close to win the match! :mad: Please guys, tell me more details about that match and my idol Vilas! Anything you remember about him!

    He said he learned many things from that game. Curiosly also in Roland Garros 1974 Orantes beat Vilas in a match where Guillermo had been close to winning in three sets! These were two important defeats, interestingly against the same player, and if I'm not wrong in both matches there were some interruptions due to rain(tell me if you remember) Vilas needed to be very concentrated all the time. But apparently, sometimes he was nervous or deconcentrated in moments where he was close to winning a important match.

    Had he an injury during that match(US Open)? I read he had a strain finishing the third set, but then he went 5-0 in the fourth set and played a long match. I also read that he said if he had won, he could not have play the final. So it confuses me. I guess a strain is painful, but he continued playing(and there have been other cases) Maybe he could have played the final if he had won the match in the fourth set? Or maybe it´s you can play at the moment but you can´t stop and then play again the next day. He once said he was unlucky in that game because he had the strain, but he could have won. Well, maybe he got more nervous because that injury.

    I would like to know what would have happened the rest of that year and the rest of Vilas's career if he had won the tournament. But all these are assumptions, and finally I think that everything happens for a reason. I asked a reporter about the defeat of Roland Garros 74(and if maybe he could have reached a final against Borg), and he said "maybe he was not ready yet" Those things are very interesting!

    Sorry to ask so many things, but he is my idol although I was not even born at that years!!!
     
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  16. Tshooter

    Tshooter Hall of Fame

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    "I was a Vilas fan at that time because he was on constantly on the PBS tennis broadcasts during the Summer tennis circuit and I grow to enjoy his play."

    With B. Collins and D. Dell.
     
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  17. pc1

    pc1 Legend

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    I was at that match too and Connors overpowered Vilas. Vilas couldn't handle the Connors power off both sides. One thing that may have favored Vilas in 1975 over 1976 however was that Vilas was in great form in 1975 if I recall and he wasn't quite up to that in 1976.

    Facing Connors is tough and I don't think Vilas was prepared to handle that power. I think in 1977 he knew what to expect.
     
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  18. gavna

    gavna Hall of Fame

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    Totally agree - Vilas in 77 was a new player under Tiriac aside from the mental changes Ion made just look at pics from 74 and 75 compared to 77 and Vilas got very very fit. In 76 Conners was on a mission I got to work the 74, 75, 76, 77, 78 US Opens and The WCT events in 78, 79 and 80 when it was at Forest Hills awesome since I lived only 6 blocks away at the time. Orantes in the finals was just sooo smooth and gave Conners nothing, Manolo was in the zone for sure.

    The other thing I remember most about 75 was that Navratilova defected just before mens finals at the facility.
     
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  19. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Orantes had a great game to match Vilas.he´d take those looping, high bouncing shots and sliced them down, into a corner.Vilas thrived on rythym and pace, orantes would change rythyms and pace, depriving Vilas of an edge.

    Vilas seldom changed tactics.I saw him lose to Lendl twice in a row and to Wilander twice in a row in Gran prix Finals, and he never would be able to try another tactic.

    But, surprisingly, I´ve seen him do that on Australia´s grass, opening lots of angles and following serve with a volley.May be it is a menthal think or may be it´s Tiriac influence.
     
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  20. Vegito

    Vegito Professional

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  21. borg number one

    borg number one Legend

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    #21
  22. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    That pic looks like Vilas got a bad bounce and was early/off balance on his shot prep.
     
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  23. Moose Malloy

    Moose Malloy Legend

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    so Orantes basically saves all those match points by serve & volleying. and this guy was considered a typical 'claycourter' of the time. god tennis today is boring.
     
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  24. Tshooter

    Tshooter Hall of Fame

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    "so Orantes basically saves all those match points by serve & volleying. and this guy was considered a typical 'claycourter' of the time. god tennis today is boring."

    I've been watching quite a bit of tennis since the early 70s and I've heard the "tennis today is boring" in every single era including the mid-70s.

    No matter what style is in vogue people think some other era was more exciting. I look back at some of those 70s matches and it looks like they were playing in slow motion. For me, W I think it was '92, plus or minus a year, may have been the low-point. That Sampras-Goran final. I'll take Djoker v. anyone over that snoozefest.
     
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  25. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    True.

    Remember that Borg-Vilas final at the FO (with 90 shot rallies).!?
     
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  26. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    There is much truth here.

    I readily remember watching a Wimbledon "breakfast" men's match in the 1970s. My mother sat down to watch also. She stayed about 2 minutes, then got up to leave and said: "This grass-court tennis is boring. All it is is serve, volley. Point over. Serve, volley. Point over. No rallies. How boring!"
     
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  27. jean pierre

    jean pierre Semi-Pro

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    These rallies are fantastic ! Today, in ten seconds, the point is finished, even on clay. That is boring !
     
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  28. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZZMuXBr_Hk

    Here's the epic 86 stroke rally between Borg and Vilas from the 1978 French Open final, posted by krosero back in 2008.
     
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  29. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    The resurection of Lazarus, was the headtitle of the New York Times.how appropiate...but Orantes had a long tradition of comebacks ( he also suffered some by his opponents, namely Borg in the 1974 FO final)
     
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  30. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Orantes has had some other wins against Nastase,Vilas,Connors ( and Borg) along his carereer.In the 1977 US CC championships at Indianapolis, one of the world´s biggest cc events, beat Connors again: 6-1, 6-3 ( Connors got his revenge at that year´s USO quarterfinals)
     
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  31. Vegito

    Vegito Professional

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    #31
  32. timnz

    timnz Hall of Fame

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    Clay

    Yes the US Open at Forest Hills was on clay in 1975, 1976 and 1977.
     
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  33. bluegrasser

    bluegrasser Hall of Fame

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    I remember that, it was when Vilas had that great run, there was a tournament on every wknd it seemed, then Borg ended it all at the French Open final - great days..
     
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  34. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    He was mainly a baseline playet but one of the most agressive, looking forwards coming to the net
    He had great hands at the net
     
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  35. Vegito

    Vegito Professional

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    My translation of Vilas words:

    "And when I play against Orantes, in the middle of the third set, I stepped, and breaks, I tear(the leg). And I keep playing, and hook up, and Orantes believes that I have a cramp, he pulls me drop-shots, lobs ... and I, for front and back could run. What I could not do was move the leg to the side. Until he start moving me and begins to open the tear, the tear, increasingly... I came to the 5-0, I have the match point, I have a very good smash, that I play to the wrong side, he strip an amazing lob. I make another smash more, keep(playing) the point, I lose, and suddenly .. is the only opportunity I had to be close ... Then the 5-1, 5-2, 5-3, 5-4 ... the most that I must have been is 30-15 in a game but ... and there I lose that match ......

    At the time I was invincible. I was invincible. I didn´t see how I could lose that match. Impossible. I lost it."
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2013
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  36. comeback

    comeback Professional

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    i hate to admit this but i was there and left after the first 2 sets..I remember Vilas' bright all yellow outfit on stadium court and obviously it was under the lights..I used to go almost everyday and i was tired..I think the tickets cost $8 or $9 dollars
     
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  37. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    The Orantes/Vilas rivalry on clay ended abruptly in 1980.They were scheduled to play a fourth rounder at Paris; Orantes was ready to play but, at last minute, Tiriac announced Vilas was...INJURIED¡¡¡.

    In this case, he should be defaulted and Orantes qualified for the QF.But that didn´t happen.Umpire Richard Hoffman gave Vilas another chance and rescheduled the match for the next day.Orantes wrotte a letter to ITF President, Philip Chartrier in ( correct) protest.To no avail.He rejected to replay the match and was defaulted.

    Remember Hings vs Graf at the 99 RG?
     
    #37

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