Vince Spadea's tips on FH and Serve

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by boramiNYC, Jan 30, 2013.

  1. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Serve and groundie technique is different. Slowing the hand is service technique, advanced.
    Slowing the hand on groundies is something accomplished with the reverse finish.
     
  2. TennisCJC

    TennisCJC Legend

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    My comment above is for groundstrokes. Volleys, you can "stop" the hand but the wrist doesn't change position - again wrist is passive.
     
  3. TennisCJC

    TennisCJC Legend

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    How does reverse finish slow hand? I use some reverse finishes and still accelerate thru - no different than normal finish except steeper angle thru contact.

    I can visualize stopping hand on serve at contact.
     
  4. boramiNYC

    boramiNYC Hall of Fame

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    Oscar clearly states the max v is achieved way past the contact point. Wouldn't this be wasting or sacrificing v for some other reason?

    Acceleration at contact is necessary but it may not even be the greatest in magnitude throughout the swing. most likely greatest somewhere before reaching contact point. What matters most is max v is at or close to the contact point.
     
  5. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    He is partially correct, as the upward speed seems to max out some time after contact, but the forward speed starts going down. The net speed seems to be going down after contact.
     
  6. max pl

    max pl Rookie

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    Plus criticism of todays top pros

    Yeh, not gonna take this dudes opinion about anything tennis.
     
  7. Cheetah

    Cheetah Hall of Fame

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    How many titles do you have?
     
  8. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    You know that he has beaten Sampras, Agassi, Federer and Nadal, right?
     
  9. Topspin Shot

    Topspin Shot Legend

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    Okay, I'm doing a really bad job of explaining how and why the hand slows down. Think of the arm like a pendulum. A pendulum reaches its max velocity when the bob (your hand) is directly beneath the fulcrum (your shoulder). But you don't hit the ball at that point. You hit the ball out in front, later in the swing path. With the out in front contact point, the hand is slowing down, and the racket has reached maximum velocity. An untrained player will subconsciously think in terms of the hand, contact the ball in line with his body, and lose power and topspin. All you have to do for the hand to slow down is to contact the ball out slightly out in front of the body.
     
  10. boramiNYC

    boramiNYC Hall of Fame

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    you are ridiculous. find top teaching pros in your area that can match such record. you are underestimating how much and deep of the knowledge required to compete at that level. you obviously have no idea.
     
  11. TennisCJC

    TennisCJC Legend

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    This guy was ranked number 18 in the world. That means on that day there were only 17 other players on the planet earth better than Vince. That's pretty good in my book.

    By the way, Vince also went through a bad spell and lost 15 1st round matches in a row. Still doesn't detract from the fact that he made the Aussie Open quarterfinals and defeated Agassi, Nadal, Sampras and Federer. Round of 16 at Wimby and USO too.
     
  12. boramiNYC

    boramiNYC Hall of Fame

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    for a heavy topspin shot yeah that makes sense but for a flat winner racquet may not even go up. the swings vary alot depending on the kinda shot being hit. so it's hard to generalize. I wonder if Oscar believes the max v is reached far past the contact even for flat winners.
     
  13. Povl Carstensen

    Povl Carstensen Legend

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    Well I am not Oscar.

    Okay
     
  14. Povl Carstensen

    Povl Carstensen Legend

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    I am just comparing it with stopping the acceleration before impact, and in this case there should be a gain.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2013
  15. Povl Carstensen

    Povl Carstensen Legend

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    Very much agreed.
     
  16. Povl Carstensen

    Povl Carstensen Legend

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    Whether or not the racket accelerates after being slowed down by the impact is not really important to my point. But I would guess that it is not uncommon that it does. I guess it would be easy to see on superslow from the correct angle.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2013
  17. 2ndServe

    2ndServe Professional

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    he says you need to hit a shot that penetrates the court ie moves through it. It's the same idea as Landsdrop and it's true for 5.0 plus tennis (need to penetrate the court relative to high level peers). Most kids hit what Landsdrop calls either a "usta ball" or "academy ball" and there are times when you need to hit that type of ball. But if that's your base shot you don't put enough pressure on a really good player. Now whatever you think of Landsdrop's ways of teaching etc the guy has developed the likes of austin, sampras, davenport, sharapova and other great champions. He knows the little things that matter at the higher levels.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2013
  18. Relinquis

    Relinquis Hall of Fame

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  19. nightfire700

    nightfire700 Rookie

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    Well I am not a tennis expert, but common sense will tell me that the exact distance to contact point is not known before hand when you are swinging the racquet. Hence its just not possible to start decelerating or swing such as to reach max velocity at the exact contact point because its not known till you actually hit the ball. Your only option is then to whip hard and continue to accelerate (or add velocity) till you hit the ball. Once the ball is hit and the signal is received by the brain, thats when you will start decelerating and get into the follow through mode and that would be well past the actual contact point and hence its safe to assume that the peak velocity will be a little after the contact point and not at the contact point or before the contact point.
     
  20. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    That seems to be true for the upward component of the speed, but not the forward component, or the net speed. That is because you did not factor in the effect of the impact. It has substantial effect in reducing the acceleration.
     
  21. luvforty

    luvforty Banned

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    honestly Vince looks like a clown here.

    journeyman giving one of the all time greats a tip on the serve?

    come on... the gap between rafa and vince is as big as between a 4.5 and a 4.0
     
  22. Povl Carstensen

    Povl Carstensen Legend

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    Sounds very reasonable. Exept for the point that the racket will be slowed down by the contact with the ball, but that really has no importance for the principle in the discussion.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2013
  23. TennisCJC

    TennisCJC Legend

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    Doesn't Vince have a win over Rafa? I think a top 100 pro could probably give legit advice on Rafa's serve. Yes, Rafa is great but his serve is not his best shot. Think if Rafa was R handed. Do you think his serve would be anywhere near as effective as it is now if he played R handed? His has the luxury of being L handed but just based on placement, speed, spin and depth, he might have to improve his serve if he was R handed.
     
  24. Relinquis

    Relinquis Hall of Fame

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    by this reasoning only the likes of federer and sampras are in a position to give nadal tips...
     
  25. boramiNYC

    boramiNYC Hall of Fame

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    Have you done any shadow swing? You can still accelerate and decelerate as in any regular swing. For real hitting there could be some deviations once in a while but mostly the contact point control is much more precise than how you describe for good players imo.
     
  26. Povl Carstensen

    Povl Carstensen Legend

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    Yes, but I think most people would find it pretty weird feeling to deccelerate their shadow swing before contact.
    Besides we are talking about milliseconds. I would think it is more feasible to maintain accelleration through contact than to stop it in a split second.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2013
  27. boramiNYC

    boramiNYC Hall of Fame

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    you are misunderstanding me. I'm referring to a very normal shadow swing where you swing with some acceleration through the contact point. deceleration in the follow thru.
     
  28. Povl Carstensen

    Povl Carstensen Legend

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    Ok, sorry.
     
  29. thecode

    thecode Banned

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    your post makes sense to me. I think some here get mixed up on what the player is doing/trying to do, and mix that up with what actually happens from that effort. Seems a player is trying to hit strongly through the ball, but even with that effort, the racket will not continue to go as fast due to the contact. But it's not like that is anything the player is trying to do and would have no bearing on instruction. Basically that the racket may actually slow a bit at contact might be expected and really just a trivia fact since it has nothing to do with what the player is trying to do, right?
     
  30. Povl Carstensen

    Povl Carstensen Legend

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    Very well put imo.
     

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