Volkl C10 Pro's flex

Discussion in 'Racquets' started by DonDiego, Feb 11, 2013.

  1. DonDiego

    DonDiego Hall of Fame

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    I just ordered a used C10 Pro raquet from TW (2010, all Yellow).

    I'm a six one 95 user, but find the racquet a bit too stiff for my arm, particularly when volleying a lot. So I bought the C10 Pro based on many reviewers praising its comfort.

    The problem is the flex rating goes from 59, 63 and even 65 depending on which site you look at. (65 is from TW lab.)

    My 6.1 95 is listed as 66-68 (again, according to different sources), so I'm wondering what to expect from the C10 Pro when I get it. And yeah, I know, I should wait to get it and see for myself... but I've heard some much praise for the flex and comfort of this racquet, and I can't imagine that a 3-4 flex rating difference can make such a difference.

    Anyone who tried both racquets (or just the C10 Pro) car to weigh in? Thanks.
     
    #1
  2. matchmaker

    matchmaker Hall of Fame

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    This is in the wrong forum, but don't worry, the C10 Pro is a very comfy and flexy racquet. I believe it's official flex is 63, the 65 is probably unstrung. But it really plays much more flexy than 63. The flex rating just says how much a racquet flexes in absolute terms. It does not say where. That's why I do not believe in using RA as absolute flex markers. They do give a pretty good indication in order to know whether a racquet will be rather stiff or rather flexy, but the perceived flex can be easily 3 or 4 points lower or higher than the actual RA rating flex.

    I find this to hold true especially in the category between 60 and 65. I have played with 61 RA racquets that feel rather stiff and 63 RA racquets that feel very flexible. C10 pro is one of the latter.
     
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  3. TennisMD

    TennisMD Semi-Pro

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    The C 10 is definitely more flexy. I believe the 63 to 65 is strung VS unstrung for c 10
     
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  4. DonDiego

    DonDiego Hall of Fame

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    It is indeed in the wrong forum, sorry about that.
    Thanks for answering!
     
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  5. DonDiego

    DonDiego Hall of Fame

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    I'm also surprised TW was only selling it 39$. It is a grade C racquet, and grade C with TW are usually in more than decent condition. At that price I jumped on the offer.
     
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  6. Lilguy1456

    Lilguy1456 Semi-Pro

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    the C10 will play MUCH close to 58 than 68, IMO.
     
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  7. VeryVolkl

    VeryVolkl New User

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    Hey Matchmaker, thanks for that great explanation regarding flex. I've been confounded by the dissimilar flexiness of racquets with similar flex ratings, but now it makes sense.
     
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  8. mrmike

    mrmike Rookie

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    The 2010 C10 is the frame I'm using currently and it is quite comfortable. It has great stability and heft without feeling unwieldy. Coming from an 18x20 Prestige I had to come up with an arm friendly string setup that deadened the power a little bit. Found RIP control 17 to work out well for me.
     
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  9. DonDiego

    DonDiego Hall of Fame

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    I plan to hybrid mine with Rip control 17 in the mains and NXT in the crosses, at 57 lbs each. Hopefully it will work out well. Otherwise I'll put RPM Blast 18 (which I love except for the fact that it's too stiff for my arm), since I believe this racquet (and my arm) can take it thanks to the inherent flex and comfort of the racquet.
     
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  10. eleventeenth street

    eleventeenth street Semi-Pro

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    i'm fairly certain flex is measured at the throat and only at the throat. and the c10 pro is said to have a very flexy hoop, which is probably why it plays softer than the 63 ra measurement
     
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  11. fuzz nation

    fuzz nation Legend

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    Pretty sure that this is the reason that the C10 seems to produce a softer ride than its actual numbers.

    I've used these Volkls for several years along with a couple other frames along the way, including the Yonex RD Ti-80. The Yonex has a lower flex rating (maybe 60) along with some extra heft, but that racquet plays more harsh for me compared with my C10's, even when both are set up with the same syn. gut and tensioned at a couple lbs. above their mid-range.

    When the hoop has some give to it, that seems to reduce a lot of that shock that typically happens when I catch the ball further up the string bed (toward the top of the hoop). That hoop flex gives the C10 a bit of a unique personality, but nothing I'd classify as a character flaw. They're just a little "tip dead". Some racquets, including a couple of Yonex frames I've used, can produce a crisp, firm feel along with soft frame performance when much of their flex is in the throat.

    Contrasting my C10's against my old 6.1 Classics, the Volkls gave me an instant boost in confidence around the baseline because their general response at contact was a bit more mellow and consistent. They gave me much more of a license to use a natural full swing without spraying the ball. I also hit a one-handed backhand and slice more than occasionally. Even with a snug set of syn. gut, my C10's simply do not hurt my arm.

    My 6.1 Classics were fantastic performers in a serve & volley role, but I've adjusted over time so that I can also take my C10's to the net with a lot of confidence - and probably get better touch and feel with them, too. Those old ProStaffs with their stiffness, extra head-light balance, and 12.8 oz. heft were simply built to volley and serve with a lot of authority. While the C10's don't seem to have any superlatives for me aside from their comfort, they also have no significant weaknesses for me.

    You may find that it takes more than one stringing to get your C10 feeling right for you - this isn't rare. This racquet can also be tuned rather easily with a little lead tape. I've tried a touch of 3/9 o'clock lead on my hoops in the past, but now I only add some lead to the handles of my Volkls to give them the 9 or 10 points HL balance that I prefer. Power, spin potential, feel, control, etc. all seem to be there as long as I swing them right. It took a while to get to know this racquet, but it's absolutely been worth it for me.

    Just in case the C10 feels a little too foreign or uncooperative for you after a while, you might want to get a try with their Organix 10. Apparently that one also has some Volkl softness, but some players relate well to its firmer feel.
     
    #11
  12. DonDiego

    DonDiego Hall of Fame

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    Good point, thanks. Indeed the Organix 10 might be an easier transition from my six one 95. The only thing I'm worried about is the (relatively) low swingweight. I'll try first the C10, probably tomorrow, and share my thoughts.
     
    #12
  13. SteveI

    SteveI Legend

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    Why is this the wrong forum??? We are in the rackets section are we not?
     
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  14. corners

    corners Legend

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    It was originally in the Pro Racquets section.
     
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  15. corners

    corners Legend

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    Here's a comparison of the C10 Pro and Organix 10 MP made by Flex Infinity, a company that sells special machinery for measuring racquet flex at many locations on the frame:

    [​IMG]

    Flex Infinity's website: http://www.flexinfinity.com/machine
    Somebody please buy a machine from him and post lots more of this kind of info. :)
     
    #15
  16. DonDiego

    DonDiego Hall of Fame

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    Wow! Thanks Corners. I was more looking at the 325 model, but it must be close to those numbers. As a matter of fact, I realize there are many models from Volkl that could work (PB10, Organix mid or midplus, C10 pro...)

    Which one do you guys think is the closest to the BLX six one 95 (16x18) in all other aspects (other than flex)?
     
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  17. DonDiego

    DonDiego Hall of Fame

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    I should add that I'm a 4.5 player who likes to rip the one-hand backhand, as well as serve and volley. I love the 6.1, but need more comfort for my arm.
     
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  18. corners

    corners Legend

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    I think the X10 325 would be most similar to your 6.1 95s. But the swingweight is much lower. I would slap 4 grams of lead at 12 o'clock and another 5-10 grams at the bottom of the handle to get a pretty decent match to the specs you have now. That extra weight should make the X10 play even softer.
     
    #18
  19. corners

    corners Legend

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    yeah, I doubt the two X10 MP versions are that different in these static flex tests. Maybe a little, but the two versions really only differ, on paper, in that the 325 has a bunch of extra mass added to the handle.
     
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  20. DonDiego

    DonDiego Hall of Fame

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    Yes, it's gonna be between the C10 pro and the X10 325 I believe. The flex will determine the winner for me. I find the C10 pro a bit too flexy, I'll go with the X10 325.
     
    #20
  21. DonDiego

    DonDiego Hall of Fame

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    « If » I find the C10 pro too...
     
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  22. corners

    corners Legend

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    Good luck, have fun with your demos.
     
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  23. DonDiego

    DonDiego Hall of Fame

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    UPS just delivered the C10 Pro.
    I'm really happy with the specs. It weights the same as my 6.1 95 (2 grams lighter), has the exact same balance (9 pts HL with an overgrip), and the 98 head of the Volkl is so narrow it's the same size as my 6.1, so it shouldn't be a big adjustment there.

    So on paper, it look like I found the «comfortable» six one 95 I was looking for. But it's only on paper. The test of reality might change that. I'm particularly skeptical regarding power and plow through. When holding it in my hand, the Volkl feel and look like a toy compared to the Wilson. We'll see...
     
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  24. matchmaker

    matchmaker Hall of Fame

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    Don't worry about power and plow through. That frame has lot's of them. The only thing that you will have to get used to is that Volkl feel. Some love it, some hate it.
     
    #24
  25. SteveI

    SteveI Legend

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    Ahhhhhh.. I see
     
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  26. Radical Shot

    Radical Shot Semi-Pro

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    I play with an original C10 Pro, and have found it very sensitive to string tension. If you string it too high, there is no flex. If you string it at the sweet spot, there is a flex like no other, and you'll never forget it. I have never experienced this kind of racquet sensitivity so much as I have with the C10 Pro. 54 Pounds with Lux Ace is the sweet spot.
     
    #26
  27. fuzz nation

    fuzz nation Legend

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    I actually have C10's from several different generations and I string them all a bit differently - a couple of my "yellow and blacks" weigh 13 oz. in stock form. I just acquired one of the "black with yellow lettering" models (2010?) that came to me strung with Yonex 850, but the seller said that this model played a bit more stiff for him. Trial and error to come with that one...

    Dying for the snow to melt so I can get crackin' against the backboard and do an informal "Pepsi Challenge" with the new toys, including a freshly acquired "fish scale" C10. I've even heard enough buzz about some softer co-polys that I'll probably sample some by summer time - got to get the game back up to speed once hibernation is over.
     
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  28. jimbo333

    jimbo333 Hall of Fame

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    Indeed, this is very very interesting, please someone buy one!

    My 2 favourite modern rackets, the PT630 and Angell95 18x20 63RA, are similar for me, and yet very different, if that makes sense:-?

    Basically I think one flexes in the throat and one in the hoop, and yet for me they both play brilliantly! I would love to see a comparison of these 2 rackets using that machine:shock:
     
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  29. corners

    corners Legend

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    You might want to contact Angell and ask. I think the guy who owns Angell posts here sometimes, and I remember once reading some posts of his where he described how racquet companies test stiffness at various frame locations. (Not sure if they test more or fewer locations than the above machine, but he definitely said that there's more to stiffness than what the RDC gives us.) And I think he used to work for Head. He might know quite well how your Angell compares to a PT630.
     
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  30. corners

    corners Legend

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    Fuzz, according to the lab data, Gosen Sidewinder 17 is the closest poly yet to syngut, in terms of stiffness, tension loss and energy return.
     
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  31. matchmaker

    matchmaker Hall of Fame

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    I would add Gosen Polylon Comfort, which is the same as the late Polylon Sp and Head Sonic Pro. Both very soft polys, reminiscent of syn gut.
     
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  32. jimbo333

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    Yes good point thanks, I will definitely ask him when I next see him (I know Paul, he used to work for Dunlop).
     
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  33. DonDiego

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    Okay. I played for two hours tonight with the C10 Pro. Singles and doubles. My impressions:

    1-This is the ultimate S&V stick.
    2-Never question anything Chris Edwards say about Volkl racquets.

    I should have listened to the guy and string the racquet with a poly (at least in hybrid) at high tension. I strung it with a thin multi at 56. Big mistake. Grounstrokes and return of serve were out of control. This thing is a rocket launcher.

    Serving took a couple of minutes to get used to, but once I did, the kick and the flat (with a bit of spin) were fantastic. Maybe it's in my head, but I had the feeling the flex in the upper part of the hoop really helped the whip of the racquet on both serves.

    Volleys overall were great, the racquet feels light and very maneuverable, and is comfortable (I'm coming from the Wilson 6.1 95). But maybe not THAT comfortable. In fact, I was scared the flex would be too much and I would spray balls all over the place. That was not the case. The racquet is precise, but it is powerful. You really have to tame it with a poly or thight strings.

    I'll go back to the pro shop tomorrow and have it restrung with my favorite combo: RPM blast 18 and NXT 17 at 58 or 59, maybe even 60. If it fixes the control on ground strokes, this could become my go to stick. I just hope it won't lose too much comfort, cause that was the point for the change of racquet in the first place...
     
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  34. DonDiego

    DonDiego Hall of Fame

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    One thing to keep in mind: I got this C10 Pro from TW for only 39$. It looks in decent condition, but maybe the racquet has fought a lot of battles, is «fatigued», and loses its tension super quickly. I'm not sure if this makes any sense, but it's a possibility.
     
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  35. mrmike

    mrmike Rookie

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    Just as Chris had mentioned, the C10 is very string sensitive. I had the same problem with multis being just a little too much power in this frame. Tried Discho Microfiber 16 @ 60lbs and balls were flying on me. The best setup I've found so far for my arm is Head RIP control. Its low powered, but isn't harsh on your arm like polys.
     
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  36. DonDiego

    DonDiego Hall of Fame

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    Final comments:

    I played two hours with a ball machine, with the C10 strung with RPM Blast 18 at 59. Much better control on groundstrokes, and the comfort is still exceptional, even with a full bed of poly.

    But when volleying, the comfort and plush feeling disappeared... I guess one reason is that when volleying, the strings you use make a much bigger difference than the racquet (when using relatively similar racquets specswise). The racquet also seemed to miss the mass and stability of my 6.1 95 on hard passing shots. (Maybe because of the C10 thinner beam?) And yes, my volleying technique is fine.

    And that's the reason why I choose to stick with my BLX 6.1 95, and will use softer strings for additional comfort. You just can't beat the control that this racquet offers. I'll keep the C10 as my «medicine stick» -- if I play too much and my arm start to hurt. It's a great stick, and maybe I could get used to it, but I don't have time for this kind of experiment.
     
    #36
  37. slowfox

    slowfox Professional

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    Got to briefly try a C10 Pro recently. It's like butter. One of the best feeling racquets (keep in mind I'm one of those who like the Volkl feel).
     
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