Vortex Extreme Spin Rackets

Discussion in 'Racquets' started by BlaackSheeep, Dec 29, 2009.

  1. BlaackSheeep

    BlaackSheeep Rookie

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    I've read a couple of posts about the Vortex Extreme Spin rackets. For those who have played with them, how do they perform in heavy hitting doubles play?
     
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  2. joe sch

    joe sch Hall of Fame

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    I love playing doubles with these rackets !
    The ES 100 can hit extreme spin with its 16x14 complemented with the hex strings. The racket is extra easy to maneuver with the longer handle, 9" vs std 7". Great for kicking serves. Its hard for me to put these rackets down now.
     
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  3. Murray Mound

    Murray Mound Banned

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    I agree. greatest serve and volley racquet in the history of mankind.
     
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  4. GoSurfBoy

    GoSurfBoy Semi-Pro

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    Murray Mound...

    As there are no specifics about headsize/player levels or game, can you give us a quick rundown on roughly the size of each, what it might be suited for; 3.0, 3.5-4.5, 5.0+, etc... Just an idea of where you think the different frames might fall - IF you think that sort of division would be applicable....

    Thanks
     
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  5. Racer41c

    Racer41c Semi-Pro

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    A gazillion guy/gals at my club use the Vortex. I belive the guy who makes them is a local down here in So. Orange County.
     
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  6. Murray Mound

    Murray Mound Banned

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    Well....the descriptions on th site are pretty mich dead on, but I will try amd give a quickie from my iPhone:


    100: this has almost the same exact specs as the babolat aeropro or pure drive . The difference is the way the racquet is constructed and the stringing scheme. shots are all easier becaise of the stringing syytem however I actaullay tightened up the strings to 62 . They come strung at unbelievably low 45 ....so please bear that in mind when demoing. I would say the stick is good for anyone from 4.0- pro


    108- does everything the 108 does but a bit easier . It's just a bit lighter and a bit bigger. I never thought I could play with a racquet this big but it's was actually fun. These sticks are so well constructed amd sp head light that you can play with any size . 3.5-pro


    116- this is for a doubles specialist. Highly maneuverable stick . People are really going to LOVE this racquet. 3.5-4.5

    133- this racquet looks ridiculous but plays great! If you can get by all the laughing you will love this stick. Basically you cannot miss a volley....it's unbeatable at the net in doubles. If you are slow
    or a senior this is your stick.....it's not only huge but it's very long....28 1/2 inches or something like that. You can chase down any ball and hit it back well. Return of serves are AMAZING. Althought the racquet is big it's HIGHLY maneuverable. Slices are awesome amd basically all you have to do is touch
    the ball and you will hit a pretty big serve.
    Having said all this, if you like hitting topspin then stay away from this club. The stick is probably meant for 2.0 - 4.0.
     
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  7. Murray Mound

    Murray Mound Banned

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    I noticed one more thing....

    It's not only the woodforde string system that' unique but as Joe pointed out the racquet construction it very different as well.

    I don't know all the tech stuff am what not but as Joe pointed out the handle is longer than convention sticks. Also or it's size and thickness it's very head liht which makes it manueverable.

    There is also something going on with the throat of the racquet ...maybe it longer or wider ....I dunno? But it just works.

    Then you mix in the woodforde system amd WOW.....shots hot off center or near the top of the racquet just are hit for winners.

    I love the stick....I wish they made a thinner beamed one on a 95.....but I will settle for the 100. It's now my racquet of choice.
     
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  8. ronalditop

    ronalditop Hall of Fame

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    Is it just me or a lot of posts of this thread have vanished?
     
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  9. Don't Let It Bounce

    Don't Let It Bounce Hall of Fame

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    Low string tension, 14x16, and marketed toward players that hit with spin... I don't see how this thing could last a set without breaking a string. And yet, I have seen it posted on these boards by someone who uses it (was it you, Joe Sch?) that breakage is not a problem. Does anyone know why it isn't a problem?
     
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  10. tailofdog

    tailofdog Semi-Pro

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    Think?

    I had a HEAD S 12(i think?) that had 14x16 and was a 115 sq in head. I used it for a couple of months until, it killed my arm,neck and shoulder.
    at first i was going through string in a week. I then had someone string it with some 15 ga rope that lasted till i through it away.
    You can overcome the string problem if, the benifit of performance outweighs the string downsize.
     
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  11. Murray Mound

    Murray Mound Banned

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    Two reasons:

    1. 15 guage super thick polyester strings

    2. The tension is lower at the top of the head bit much higher near the middle and bottom of te racquet . Sort of a cone or pyramid shape of tension ( hence the name "Vortex").
     
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  12. Venetian

    Venetian Professional

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    I can't find anything about these racquets on the web. Is there any info on them out there?
     
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  13. Murray Mound

    Murray Mound Banned

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    Here's the TV commercial that appeared on espn and the tennis channel....looks pretty cool:

    http://www.davidottaproductions.com/vortex-tennis-national-tv-spots-completed/
     
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  14. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    How comfortable are these rackets?
     
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  15. -Kap-

    -Kap- Rookie

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    Yeah, there are a few posts that seem to have gone missing.

    I haven't tried one, but a racquet with a stiffness rating of 70, strung with stiff (according to their site) 15 gauge poly, doesn't sound especially arm-friendly to me.
     
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  16. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    Does this company have a demo program?
     
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  17. big bang

    big bang Hall of Fame

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    some of the worst looking frames ever!!
     
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  18. Murray Mound

    Murray Mound Banned

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    30 days and you can return them no questions asked.

    As far as the look....they look like ordinary frames....maybe you don't like the paintjob? The larger ones have exactly the same paintjob as the babolats amd the other two are just plain red
     
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  19. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    How comfortable are they?
     
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  20. El Guapo

    El Guapo Semi-Pro

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    100% garbage from a scummy company. Stay away.
     
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  21. Fed Kennedy

    Fed Kennedy Hall of Fame

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    What happens if you break a string? Can they only be used with this special string?
     
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  22. Murray Mound

    Murray Mound Banned

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    I think you should try the stick first .

    The racquet may not be for you ( I Loved it) but the "company" is basically this senior USTA player named Tom and his son Wase both who have been really nice to me.

    It's a family owned business and there are 12 employees total in the "company".

    Anyway , I found Tomd and Wade very helpful, I could even text message on theor personal cell phones. One night Tom interrupted his dinner out just to talk about a string issue I was having.

    I personally find it refreshing to work with a family owned "ma pa" business rather than staying on hold on an automated system with a billion dollar faceless corporation.....but that's just my humble opinion
     
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  23. Murray Mound

    Murray Mound Banned

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    U can use any string you want to use.
     
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  24. Murray Mound

    Murray Mound Banned

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    Very.

    The low tension is a relief on the arm. Theybare strung at 45 but as we all know strings lose tension once they are strung. So racquet is probably closer to 35.....and ad you play with it probably drops to 25!!

    It's like sitting in a plush Cadillac
     
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  25. Murray Mound

    Murray Mound Banned

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    #25
  26. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    I would like to hear from some people that have used these rackets.Is there enough control with the open string pattern? Or are these rackets rocket launchers?
     
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  27. Murray Mound

    Murray Mound Banned

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    i had to tighten it up to 65 pounds. But rememebr the top of the racquet is going to be looser than at the bottom because of the vortex coned shape design.

    You just have to try it Like any racquet ......I cant tell you how many racquets i thought would suck and were great and vice versa. there is no substitute for a demo.
     
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  28. tailofdog

    tailofdog Semi-Pro

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    It Has A Place

    I have tried almost every cutting edge inovation.The results have been the further away from a normal frame the worse they were.
    The POWER ANGLE stringing pattern was a good thing but, not exceptional.
    The WEED has a place in Seniors tennis has has the Big Bubba. You just have to weigh up if the good outweighs the bad for you.
    Now on to the VORTEX
    The balance on the 100 and 108 6pt hl suites me and i do not mind 27.5 length but on one part of the site lists the 100 as 11.2 oz strung and the other lists it as 10.8 oz strung. The 108 has a similar difference on different parts of the Vortex site.They have a string pattern that might have merit.
    I would even be willing to try it. What i do know is they have no 27 in around 12 oz frames that would appeal to a lot of the serious tennis population. So they appear to be making a play for only the recreational crowd. Now they only ship to the U.S., Austria and South Africa. As i live in Australia i, have to wonder why? Our postal system is first class as would be many of the countries they exclude.
    Now this is a question and a guess. They seem to be pushing an affliate program which gives a commision on sales you direct to them. I wonder if this is part of the problem on International shipping? My understanding is South Africa is not the safest place to ship to but is one of the two International countries they ship to!
    It may be unfair but i have to wonder if this is more a marketing ploy than really innovative racquet.
    I hope i am wrong but, I really have to ask this question.
     
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  29. jbleiman

    jbleiman Rookie

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    well i'm jumping in and trying one out...i ordrered the 116 today...will try it for the 30 days and if i don't like it i'll return it...i currently use the wilson n3 and am pretty happy with it...but we are all looking for the magical frame...this vortex sounds very interesting....if it does what it claims it really fits the way i play...slice and dice
     
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  30. joe sch

    joe sch Hall of Fame

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    Those Extreme Spin rackets are good for all levels of players, they are not just targetted to recreational players. I have leaded them up to 11.5 and 12 oz's by adding lead inside the throat and found that I actually liked the stock version better, which is approx to 11 oz's. Even though the RDC is like 70, the rackets play much more flexible with the string pattern that really provides great ball pocketing that results in the "extreme" spin. I like smaller head rackets like 85s to 95s but found the ES 100 very comfortable. My junior daughter actually prefers the ES 108 and has not been using her prince 03 sharapova sticks as a result now. The only negative with these rackets is with the sparse string pattern 16x14 and great spinning, you will be restringing them more frequently than the prior rackets you have played. Stringing is pretty quick and simple.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2010
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  31. tailofdog

    tailofdog Semi-Pro

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    Open

    I like the open pattern and would not mind more restringing more. I prefer my racquets heavier but, can belive a racquet with more spin could work at a lighter weight. I would really like to understand why only Austria and South Africia are the only international destinations they ship to.
    We will see in time how it turns out. I hope it is something special but, i feel there are a few grey areas that need looking at.
     
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  32. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    I am going to demo this racket, maybe it is a toy but i have to give it a try.My game centers around topspin+slice so maybe it will work for me.
     
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  33. Murray Mound

    Murray Mound Banned

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    except the Vortex is not a new idea.....the Vortex is the Woodforde secret racquet. Aka among others the wilson hi-ten.

    Woodforde may be the greatest doubles player ever and the Vortex was his secret weapon.

    Woodfordes racquet was a slightly more open string pattern and the strings were just as thick.

    I spoke with the owner of vortex and he told me that the Vortex is based on woodfordes stick aka the Wilson hi ten. But there is one major difference .

    Woodfordes racquet was string extremely tightly . However the inventor of the vortex ( Tom olstead or something) found that the racquet actually played better when strung looser.

    For the guy who is ordering the 116 , you are gonna love it! That racquet has received rave reviews !

    But the 133 is insane and yet unbeatable I'm doubles. The racquet looks ridiculous , but if you can get by that you will be astounded. It's amazingly maneuverable and it's simply unbeatable at the net. It's not meant for long strokes but if you are at the net in doubles the nothing will get by you. It's also the absolute greatest racquet ever made for return of serves and I dare anyone to find a better racquet in that department.

    But again.....the 133 looks ridiculous and because of it's wide spacing it even looks bigger .

    The 116 is just about as good but manueverable . It's a doubles specialist racquetbas well and meant for volleys, serves, return of serves amd slice. This is not a topspin stick .

    The 100 and 108 are meant for better players with topspin . You can use a 108 because these sticks are so unbelievably maneuverable. But I would string them tighter....I went up to 65 pounds!!! ( I play with the 100 but I love all the others as well)

    I only have one dislike. I wish the frame were a bit thinner. I like a thin frame to whil topspin. Hopefully they will come out with that.
     
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  34. joe sch

    joe sch Hall of Fame

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    The hi-ten was a snauwaert racket. The ES is actually a cross of the chris and hiten models. Google> extreme spin, chris, and hiten and you will see a comparison. Also, the ES rackets use thin guage string and the hitens used thick guage strings, like 17g vs 12g. They were also high tensioned vs low tensions for ES rackets. The ES rackets are easy on the arm, especially at 50lbs of tenision which they play very well at.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2010
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  35. Murray Mound

    Murray Mound Banned

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    Yes and no.

    The vortex also uses a gigantic 15 guage string with hex on them! Huge spin .

    Woodforde also used a Wilson that was specifically made for him with a 12 x 12 string pattern. ( see below). McEnroe had said Marks "Vortex" was unfair and gave too much spin

    Yes the Vortex uses a hybrid of low and high tension....thus the name vortex( shaped like a vortex or pyramid....low tension on top and higher in middle and bottom).

    Again I spoke to the owner and he basically said he copied woodfordes racquet and made it better. He says woodforde was mistaken and should have used a lower tension . In any event you can string the vortex as tight as you want to mimic the woodforde "Vortex".

    They are both based on the same premise . I think the vortex uses 12 x 14 and woodforde is 12 x 12. And different vortex models may be sparser stringing patterns . Ease verify the numbers.

    Here is Marks Wilson "Vortex":

    [​IMG]
     
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  36. Murray Mound

    Murray Mound Banned

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    Joe,

    now I see where you are coming from. Vortex also sells a 15 guage monster spin string ( actually I think it's closer to 14);

    however the 100 comes with a slightly larger 16 guage string while the 116 & 133 come with 15 guage amd a sparser stringing pattern.

    You can buy the speacially made vortex string seprately in 15 guage . It's awesome!! Hybrid of poly & multi . Amazing string and cool black color!!
     
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  37. Murray Mound

    Murray Mound Banned

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    I mean their 16 guage is slightly larger than conventional 16. But again get the 15 guage they sell .
     
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  38. GoSurfBoy

    GoSurfBoy Semi-Pro

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    Anyone know what they run? The 'order now' link doesn't work - in either Chrome or Firefox, and the video link of the rackets crashes Firefox, and Chrome says there's a problem running it.
     
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  39. Murray Mound

    Murray Mound Banned

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  40. Murray Mound

    Murray Mound Banned

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  41. Kick Serve 14

    Kick Serve 14 Professional

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    Sorry, but using a thick gauge of string completely negates the effects of a super spinny racket, if you really want a spin machine, use at least a 16L gauge in this frame. Also, Woodforde is a 12x14. Sorry, but you're wrong...
     
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  42. Murray Mound

    Murray Mound Banned

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    1- you can use any string you want on a vortex.

    2- mark woodforde used thick 15 guage

    3- there is a debate on thick vs thin. Thin supposedly gives more bite but another school of thought says thick gives more spin becaise there is more material touching the ball thus creating more spin.....and then there are others that say it's all racquet head speed and string doesn't matter . Bottom line: no one really knows.
     
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  43. Murray Mound

    Murray Mound Banned

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    Oh and as far as woodforde 12 x 14 I said I wasn't sure amd to please check my numbers . But thanks for that. Can you also check what the vortex is? It's different on different models.
     
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  44. tailofdog

    tailofdog Semi-Pro

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    Looked It Up

    The 12x14 was the hiten Mark used.12x16 with a special LUX 155 ga string was what he had in the Wilson
     
    #44
  45. Murray Mound

    Murray Mound Banned

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    Thanks!

    But im not sure what you mean because I believe mark played ith a Hi-ten at one time.

    The vortex patterns are as follows;

    100- 14 x 16 strung with 16 guage

    108- 14 x 16 strung with 15 guage

    116- 14 x 15 strubg with 15 guage

    133- 14 x 15 strung with 15 guage
     
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  46. tailofdog

    tailofdog Semi-Pro

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    Yes

    Thats what probably influnced Mark to use a wider string pattern(playing with the HITEN) What i found is he had the first Wilson drilled to meet that wide string pattern then,Wilson made a racquet for him
     
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  47. Murray Mound

    Murray Mound Banned

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    gotcha. I would love to hit with Woodfordes racquet but they are impossible to find so I have to settle for the Vortex.

    I can say That i do notice much more spin and accuracy on the ball. Im not saying the stick will turn you into federer but it really is a breakthrough in technology.

    What i dislike about the racquet is thats its way too thick for a players frame. maybe if they become a hit they will come out with a 22mm frame in say a 95 inch??? That would be a dangerous weapon!!

    But on the other hand Wilson and the big boys will not allow a ma and pa company to be succesful. they will get run out of town before they let that happen. so if you are gonna get one of these sticks you dont have forever.....

    Or Wilson will just buy them out like they bought out Luxilon....did you know those are actually wilson strings now?
     
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  48. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    How thick is the beam on the vortex es 100?
     
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  49. Murray Mound

    Murray Mound Banned

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    Im not sure...but its also sorta hollow. I like a stick with some heft to it.

    Its my only problem with the stick.
     
    #49
  50. tailofdog

    tailofdog Semi-Pro

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    OK

    Ok i will pick one up for my birthday in june. It sounds like a worthwhile look.
    I found a way to get one sent to Australia. I have a balance board and can probably get it to the spec i like. I use a Pro Kennex ki 15pse and its beam is a little thicker but plays well for me (i will be 62) I still have a few doubts but,a racquet that gives you any advantage is something worth looking at.
    I saw Marks father a couple of years ago at a seniors tournament in South Australia. If i remember his name was Ray and i don,t think he had any unusual racquet set up.
    At the time he was 75 and still winning whatever he was entered in.
     
    #50

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