Vortex Extreme Spin Rackets

Discussion in 'Racquets' started by BlaackSheeep, Dec 29, 2009.

  1. tailofdog

    tailofdog Semi-Pro

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    It Is There

    Look a little harder. I played with a guy that had one today. It said low tension dynamics on the side. (WONDER WAND INTRUDER) not a bad racquet thick beam and unusual throat design. You can see the beginning VORTEX there in this racquet. He took over this company in 2008 after it went under.
     
  2. Murray Mound

    Murray Mound Banned

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    I already knew he acquired wonder wand . I looked on the net for it pretty hard and I could not find a pic.

    I always suspected that the vortex was the wonder wand.

    Tom probably used the womderwand mold amd drilled a
    different string pattern in it?

    Anyway I would love to know more about this wonder wand . Of you find a pic or a
    description please share.
     
  3. Spyre

    Spyre Rookie

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    why don't they have a typical "players" type rackets.
    There heaviest racket is 10.8 oz strung with a 27.5 inch length.
    Those specs alone turn a lot of ppl off imo.
     
  4. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    I agree they need to make a smaller version of this racket. I have been experimenting with different strings to tone it down. It is a very interesting racket, it can be deadly on a lot of shots.

    I would suggest to anyone using it to use thick low powered strings at high tension. I have found that fxp 16 gauge mains with rip control 16 crosses both at 70 lbs. plays pretty good.

    Also cheap leoina 15 gauge synthetic with the same rip control cross plays good.I dont like rip control in a full job, but it is a great string to tone down the power.

    I usually use high end strings but on this stick it is not necessary.I will be changing strings with this racket every 3-4 days anyway.

    Plus i found the string is not that important in this racket, except for it being thick+low powered. I can get great spin with any string on this crazy racket.

    I know that it sounds odd to change strings that often but i change at least once a week with any racket. This open pattern is going to be tougher on the strings, plus i love playing with new strings.
     
  5. tailofdog

    tailofdog Semi-Pro

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    Keeper?

    Are you going to keep your demo?
     
  6. Murray Mound

    Murray Mound Banned

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    I would like a smaller head as well.

    The stick is fun though.
     
  7. joe sch

    joe sch Hall of Fame

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    I have said it many times, I almost never like rackets larger than 95s but really enjoy the ES100. I would like to see a ES90 version and would also like to see one that is more hefty, ie made more like the old school thicker beamed, smaller beam width rackets. I really like the overall frame mold with the longer handle and sparse string pattern with pyramid mains. I hope they sell alot of rackets so they can afford to produce more model variants.
     
  8. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    I think i am going to keep the demo, i am still trying different string set ups. I have it close now+if i can tone the power down a little more it will be perfect.

    This racket has really improved my slice backhand+topspin backhand.The forehand is similar to the kobra, but with a little more jump on the looping shots.But it really is good when i go to for a flatter forehand winner.

    The serve is pretty good, but still adjusting to the racket.Return of serve is so so, still getting used to the power.
     
  9. tailofdog

    tailofdog Semi-Pro

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    Might Be

    It could be. On reflection the WONDER WAND INTRUDER looks a lot like the ES 108. WITH The paint job on the VORTEX would make it look a lot different.
    The stringing pattern on the INTRUDER was 20x21 so yes it could be he changed the drilling pattern.
     
  10. Murray Mound

    Murray Mound Banned

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    Wow! I am surprised!

    I really thought you were gonna toss it. I'm glad your still fiddling around. I hope it works out.
     
  11. Mig1NC

    Mig1NC Professional

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    You know, I think a thin beamed flexier racquet might be a good idea, but I don't know that I would get too much smaller in surface area of the stringbed. But a thinner beam would have a larger spin window.

    I don't have one, but just thought I woudl throw out that random idea for you guys to chew on.
     
  12. tailofdog

    tailofdog Semi-Pro

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    Trail To Vortex

    I really belive the reason they do not have thinner beams is they are using WONDER WAND molds. The WONDER WAND CO. starded around 1995 and was effectively out of business by 2006. In the 1990,s a lot of racquets were thick beamed. If the WONDER WAND racquet i hit with yesterday is any indication they are not a bad frame.
    I think the WONDER WAND problem was image. Can you hear all the jokes about playing with my Wonder Wand. Also some of the model names like BONE CRUSHER would be a bit of a turn off for women or a large % of men.
    So i dont think we will be seeing any thin frames comming out from Vortex any time soon.
    I think i will play with my PRO KENNEX KI15 PSE for singles but i will look at tha ES 133 in May for doubles. I had a BIG BUBBA that i could just make volleys scream with. So with the wide string on the VORTEX i belive volleys would be sweet!!
     
  13. Murray Mound

    Murray Mound Banned

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    The 133 is unbeatable in doubles at the net .

    I'm dead serious . Nothing gets by you.
     
  14. joe sch

    joe sch Hall of Fame

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    I would like to find more about the Wonder Wand ...
    If its anything like 20x21 then its the opposite end of the technology as far as being an extreme spinner by use of a sparse stringing pattern. From what I have seen of the graphite racket history, they look to be a combination of the Snauwaert HiTen and the Chris models.
     
  15. Murray Mound

    Murray Mound Banned

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    i did a search on racquet finder here at TW. It lists all the specs but no pics. here you go:

    Racquet Name: Cayman Terminator 28
    Head Size: 100 sq. in. /645 sq. cm.Length: 27.00 inches / 68.58 cmStrung Weight: 10.30 oz / 292 gBalance: 5pts HHSwing Weight: 327Beam Width: 0.0 mm Tip/0.0 mm ShaftComposition: Power Level: Stiffness: 66String Pattern: 18 Mains/18 CrossesMain Skip: String Tension:

    Racquet Name: Cayman Terminator II
    Head Size: 100 sq. in. /645 sq. cm.Length: 27.00 inches / 68.58 cmStrung Weight: 10.30 oz / 292 gBalance: 5pts HHSwing Weight: 327Beam Width: 0.0 mm Tip/0.0 mm ShaftComposition: Power Level: Stiffness: 66String Pattern: 18 Mains/18 CrossesMain Skip: String Tension:

    Racquet Name: Wonderwand Stealth
    Head Size: 100 sq. in. /645 sq. cm.Length: 27.00 inches / 68.58 cmStrung Weight: 9.90 oz / 281 gBalance: 5pts HHSwing Weight: 316Beam Width: 0.0 mm Tip/0.0 mm ShaftComposition: Power Level: Stiffness: 71String Pattern: 16 Mains/19 CrossesMain Skip: String Tension:

    Racquet Name: Wonderwand Terminator
    Head Size: 100 sq. in. /645 sq. cm.Length: 27.00 inches / 68.58 cmStrung Weight: 10.30 oz / 292 gBalance: 5pts HHSwing Weight: 327Beam Width: 0.0 mm Tip/0.0 mm ShaftComposition: Power Level: Stiffness: 66String Pattern: 18 Mains/18 CrossesMain Skip: String Tension:

    Racquet Name: Wonderwand Weapon
    Head Size: 110 sq. in. /710 sq. cm.Length: 28.50 inches / 72.39 cmStrung Weight: 10.20 oz / 289 gBalance: 4pts HLSwing Weight: 359Beam Width: 0.0 mm Tip/0.0 mm ShaftComposition: Power Level: Stiffness: 71String Pattern: 16 Mains/18 CrossesMain Skip: String Tension:

    Racquet Name: Wonderwand Weapon Super OS
    Head Size: 130 sq. in. /839 sq. cm.Length: 28.50 inches / 72.39 cmStrung Weight: 10.20 oz / 289 gBalance: 3pts HHSwing Weight: 368Beam Width: 0.0 mm Tip/0.0 mm ShaftComposition: Power Level: Stiffness: 64String Pattern: 20 Mains/21 CrossesMain Skip: String Tension:
     
  16. tailofdog

    tailofdog Semi-Pro

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    String Pattern

    The WONDER WAND i saw had similar looks to the ES 108. I really tuned into that when i saw the low tension dynamics written on the frame. If the VORTEX owners name is Tom Olmstead then he bought out the rights to WONDER WAND around 2008 for .0015?x 100,000 shares. I don,t think it really makes the VORTEX less of a racquet just an interesting way of doing it. This really would explain the thick frames and, drilling patterns can be changed. It makes the low weight on all the racquets make sense as well.
    If you had molds for WONDER WAND racquets can you play with them to alter shape?
    You never know if you ask Tom he might tell you. He may be surprised you know but,be OK with that!
     
  17. tailofdog

    tailofdog Semi-Pro

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    BTW most racquets steal ideas from past models. I have Jenro 2 piece racquet that everybody thought was a weird new idea. It really is just a copy of a SNAUWAERT people forgot about.
    That is just one example in a long list of copying ideas.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2010
  18. joe sch

    joe sch Hall of Fame

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    Yes, very common because patents are hard to enforce across international boundaries, hence all the Asian knockoffs :(
     
  19. Murray Mound

    Murray Mound Banned

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    Just want to tell you I am typing this on my iPad and this thing is freaking awesome
     
  20. tailofdog

    tailofdog Semi-Pro

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    California Standard

    I just was reading the Vortex Facebook site.
    It is showing the 4.0 womens doubles winers both with the Vortex racquets ES 116 and, ES 133
    The next shows the 5.0 womens winners of a TOP GUN tournament both with Vortex racquets ES 116 and looks like a ES 100 or ES 108 plus i belive the runners up were VORTEX players.
    So my question is are 5.0 and 4.0 Tournament winners and runners up a reasonably good standard? (women)
    Also are these racquets being given out to Tournament Players free of charge to get reconition?
    Are these racquets starting to make an appearance anywere?
     
  21. joe sch

    joe sch Hall of Fame

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    Yes, I understand that Vortex is supplying some of these rackets to promising juniors as a way to get some more exposure. These rackets are capable of improving many top players games but Vortex does not have the kind of $$$ to endorse ATP players. It also makes sense to endorse juniors because they are more apt to make a racket change that is quite radical compared to jumping to another new players racket, like head radical to youtek or wilson tourX to blx.
     
  22. dflow

    dflow New User

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    dflow

    I am presently demoing the 100 & 108. Tom was nice enough to send me the 100 when I thought the 108 might be too big. I take a pretty healthy cut at the ball about 2/3 of the time and was hitting too many balls about a foot or so out. After trying both, I am having trouble deciding. I enjoy baseline, top spin hitting but play doubles most of the time (no choice) since that's what most guys seem to want to play. I think the 108 might give me an edge on the volley's, while the 100 gives me a little more accuracy on both the serve and baseline shots. The 108 feels good in my hand and gives alot of spin. Both are strung with the hybrid at 65lbs. I keep thinking why not get the advantage of the bigger head if they are pretty close in performance. Alot of the guys I play with use 110 and bigger, and have been playing longer than I.
    Is a bigger head an adavantage for a 3.0-3.5 player?
     
  23. Murray Mound

    Murray Mound Banned

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    use one for your serve games and one for your return games...lol.

    The 116 is an incredible weapon that I think you would love. The 133 is absolutely insane and unbeatable at the net. The problem is that it looks ridiculous. At you level I would try both. Tom is a 4.5 national senior player an he uses the 133. That stick is freaking insane. It's longer than anything, bigger than anything, and unbelievably maneuvarble as it's head light. Don't get boxed in ....have an open mind. I think you may live the bugger sticks but you have to let the stick do all the work. Strokes should be short. Volleys will be incredible .
     
  24. Murray Mound

    Murray Mound Banned

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    There was actually a woman on the pro tour that played Fed cup for I think Peru that used a vortex. You can call Tom at Vortex to get the specifics .
     
  25. tailofdog

    tailofdog Semi-Pro

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    More Time On The Planet

    If you take a look at the Vortex Facebook site i think the women there are Senior tournament players. It seems they must be able to play! To be winning.
     
  26. tailofdog

    tailofdog Semi-Pro

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    Different Idea

    This racquet is a different idea so a lot of ideas do not apply. With other racquets the idea is heavier and smaller works better. I play with a 12 oz 105 sq in head and feel i get more topspin than with my 100 sq in head. A lot has to do with the racquet. I will be getting the ES 133 because i want it for some doublesplay. I have used a super oversized racquet before and found the kick serve and volleys for me were what made it stand out. I will still use my smaller racquet but just wand the ES 133 for a change up!
     
  27. Murray Mound

    Murray Mound Banned

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    Im shocked ! I cant wait for you to try that stick . Its INSANE!!!! and by the way if your not the quickest you singles game will improve as well as you will be able to get to a ton of more balls. Plus your serve and volley game will increase.

    I seriously cannot wait till you try that stick. Wait till you see it in real life. You are going to laugh. it looks like a babolat on steroids.....but once you get by the laughter and ridicule I think you will really enjoy that stick.

    Out of all the models the 133 is the most significant game improving racquet not only in the Vortex line but all tennis lines period. Its not made for high level tennis (except for volleys).....but if you want to improve your game and your say a 3.5 then look no further.

    I cant stress enuf how absolutely amazing volleys are with the 133. I can almost 100 % guarantee that you will be blown away in that department.
     
  28. tailofdog

    tailofdog Semi-Pro

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    Give Me Some Insight

    I will share what i know and perhaps you can point me in the right direction.
    I play at a 4.0 level and will be 62 in june. I play with a 12 0z racquet and know that weight provides power and keeps the racquet going through the ball not, comming off as you due with a lighter racquet.
    I also know there is more bad image on the super oversize than facts warrant.
    It,s just not comfotable when people have negative comments about your gear.(ask the former owners of wonder wand)
    Now since none of the Vortex racquets have any weight to speak of what direction would be better for me? I have played from 93 to 137 sq in racquets and have been playing for a long time. I use a 105 head now and would probably normally look at the ES 108. Since it only weighs 10.5 oz I will ask this question. Iknow that any racquet over 27.5 becomes more difficult on one handed bathe whole range is game improvementckhands. the exception to this is light weight racquets which become easy to move around.
    By definition . As tom plays 4.5 Senior tennis i, would assume this is good at that reasonable level.
    I am very sincere in asking you what are the advantages and drawbacks of the different models. Joesch comments on the lighter weight being no problem
    made me look at these as i know he is a very experenced player.
    On the Facebook (VORTEX) at 5.0 level winner one is using the ES 116 and 1 4.0 winner is using the ES 133.
    So any answers to the + and - of different models will be appreciated
     
  29. haerdalis

    haerdalis Hall of Fame

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    How can control be any good on volleys with a frame like the ES 133?
     
  30. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    I am returning my es 100, i really liked some things about this stick.But it is to powerful+it is bothering my arm because i have to string it so tight.

    I will miss this racket in some ways, but once a racket bites me i know it has to go.Plus now that it has warmed up outside the control has gotten worse.

    But for people that need some help with power+can play with it at lower tensions it could be very nice.
     
  31. tailofdog

    tailofdog Semi-Pro

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    Surface Area

    I slice across the ball on Volleys as well as moving foward. If you see the BIG BUBBA it has a thin frame and 65 flex maybe that is the reason. Also on kick serves it provided more kick than any other racquet i have used.
    So i assume it must be the surface area?
     
  32. Murray Mound

    Murray Mound Banned

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    there is no substitute for demoing. And you try a racquet out and excahnge it in 30 days with Tom.

    But I will tell what I think is the best for you....even though it may be wrong.

    At age 62 I really think you will freaking love both the 116 & 133.....and I think you will go up a level with the 133 for sure.

    General racquet principles don't apply to the Vortex becaise of the stringing system and the racquet construction .

    Everyone talks about the strings, but the racquet is actually equally unique. The 133 is the only racquet that size that is unbelievably head light. You will not believe the control. You will be swing around this boat of a stick and you will be just as maneuvarble.

    The 133 is longer than any racquet I have seen and the 116 is also pretty long . If you don't hit with huge topspin and have short strokes either racquet will do. I don't know of you will like the 116 or 133 better. But I'm telling you there are no racquets on the market that volley better than these things .

    It's all sweet spot, it's huge, and it's as maneuverable as an 85 square inch racquet. Return of serve are AMAZING with the 133.

    If you take a big swing at your serve however the 133 may not be the way to go and you might want to opt for the 116.

    Either way you won't believe how great your volleys and return of serves will be with the 133. You are going to be blown away, I promise .

    A pro hit the hardest shot he could at me with it . I lunged and hit am I believable winner from the net. We were both amazed. The 133 is very very hard to beat at the net.

    Your singles play will improve immensely. Not only will you get to far more balls with the 133 ( and 116) but they will be winners.

    But remember , these sticks were meant for short groundstrokes . The racquet will do most of the work.

    133 report card

    volley A++++

    serves A for novice C for advanced

    return of serves A +++++

    groundies.....B + for novice D for advanced

    overheads A++++++++ ( never miss an overhead again)

    slices.....b+ for novice , C for advanced

    THE 116 is the same as the 133 but if you have slightly bigger strokes then this would be the way to go. You have to try both. But the 133 in certain departments is the best racquet ever made
     
  33. Murray Mound

    Murray Mound Banned

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    Because unlike other huge frames the 133 is really head lite. About 8 points O think. All the other racquets of similar size are head heavy . It's huge and it's unbelievably maneuvarable.

    The stringing stystem also helps. You see the top of the racquet is very low tension. when you hot a volley near the top of a racquet with a conventional frame it's never a strong volley amd usually a net ball. But with the low pressure of the vortex not only will the ball get over the net but it will be a winner .

    The 133 is very very hard to beat in anyones hands . It's really a very special stick. But I
    would have to say that more people love the 116 because it does everything the 133 does but with a little less power and more maneuverability.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2010
  34. Murray Mound

    Murray Mound Banned

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    Tail,

    the 133 looks even bigger than it's size becaise the strings are so far apart they give the appearemce that it's more like a 153.

    The racquet looks GIGANTIC....more so than any racquet I have seen . You are going ti feel funny about using it. But I promise that foe volleys, return of serves,overheads you will never find a better racquet. Hell you could serve underhand and your opponent still would not get the ball by you with this maneuvarable boat of a racquet.
     
  35. haerdalis

    haerdalis Hall of Fame

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    I can believe getting the racquet in the way of the ball is easy but aiming and punching the volley with good control is another thing.

    I cant wait till I get mine, the 108 I am trying.
    Still the perfect volleyracquet for me would be one with the stability and punch of a wilson tour 90 and the maneuverability of a 26" junior racquet.
     
  36. tailofdog

    tailofdog Semi-Pro

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    Australia

    Becaue i live in Australia i will probably have to get the right one first up.
    If the 116 has less power i will probably look at that. I will e-mail Tom as he is older and knows his racquet quirks first hand. What i don,t want is a racquet that sends the ball into the fence. My PROKENNEX KI 15PSE has the right power for me. I would not be able to control it,s power if not for topspin.
    So i have until the middle of may to make up my mind.
     
  37. Murray Mound

    Murray Mound Banned

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    It doesn't work like most racquets. The stringing system really makes a difference. The 116 is probably the safer choice.
     
  38. Murray Mound

    Murray Mound Banned

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    I completely I agree. I thought the same thing....but I was wrong.

    I never would even try a racquet over 98. So for kicks I tried all four models. The 133 was absolutely incredible for volleys.....unbelievable.
    However I play with the 100 because the 133 was just too powerful for my ground strokes and serves. But for volleys and return of serves.....OMG! Best stick in those departments known to man! It defys logic.
     
  39. haerdalis

    haerdalis Hall of Fame

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    I got the racquet today. Played an hour with it and even if it might not be a racquet I will consider my main stick it was very good indeed. Control was better than expected. Stability was ok considering it is lightweight and headlight. It was easy hitting angles but the spin wasnt heavy. On serves I got good kick and slice but again the ball wasnt heavy.
    Volleys were actually quite good. The gain in maneuverabilty seemed bigger than the loss of stability. Directional control was not bad.
    My best shot with this racquet was my backhand slice. However my topspin backhand didnt work at all.
    Very interesting design. This must be better than most game improvement frames out there. It reminded me a little bit of the völkl powerarm but with much better control.
     
  40. BlaackSheeep

    BlaackSheeep Rookie

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    I have both the ES116 and the ES100 and I think the 116 is a better and more versatile racket. I think I can do anything with the 116. I originally started this thread to gain some insight on the 100 and after reading a few posts about it I ordered one. But I can say now the 116 is a superior racket for what I use it for: doubles. And for those people that don't think the 116 is a topspin stick, I kick fairly dead balls on groundstrokes 6 feet in the air routinely. The 100 is good too, but not that good. I have the 133 on order now too and I can't wait for that baby. For those that think the ES116 is a granny stick, I'm 6'3" and 225 lbs. and I spend about 4-6 hours in the gym every week lifting weights to try to compensate for being 51 years old. I'm stronger that most of the people I play, and the Vortex helps me make up for my lack of speed.
     
  41. tailofdog

    tailofdog Semi-Pro

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    Good Players

    I was waiting for your experience. Did i see 2 Es 116 in the for sale from you?
    I have seen a lot of good players using light racquets and its the only way to compensate for that length on one handed backhands.
    The other thing is you cant expect miracles from any racquet but, any advantage is a plus that is hard to come buy.
     
  42. Murray Mound

    Murray Mound Banned

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    The 116 is an awesome stick! And probably the most versatile. people LOVE that stick.

    But there is no one stick for everyone. I think the 116 is probably better than the 100 for volleys and return of serves and maybe even overheads. but I need a far less powerful racquet for my serve. In fact i wish they made a thin beamed 95.

    bottom line : "different strokes for different folks" means different people will like different sticks.

    For me the 100 is the best but I certainly can see why you love the 116. its a GREAT GREAT stick.
     
  43. Murray Mound

    Murray Mound Banned

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    There is a slight learning curve with the stick. Also rememebr that you are using the stock strings. I string as high as 60 pounds on my stick with blue gear. i get some sick freaking topspin.

    Which racquet diod you get?
     
  44. BlaackSheeep

    BlaackSheeep Rookie

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    Yes but after playing with the 100 I decided to keep the ES116 and sell probably the 100
     
  45. Murray Mound

    Murray Mound Banned

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    How much? Actually I have a 116 as well....Ill trade you for it.
     
  46. BlaackSheeep

    BlaackSheeep Rookie

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    e-mail me at m.b.smith@hotmail.com and we will talk about it
     
  47. joe sch

    joe sch Hall of Fame

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    Glad your having some fun with the racket.
    I also like slicing, especially on the BH side but find the topspin soo easy with these rackets that I mostly hit over all balls.
    Maybe the factory string setup is too loose for you, try those MSV hex 1.2 strings at a higher tension, it may give you even better control.
     
  48. Murray Mound

    Murray Mound Banned

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    Joe I know how much you love those MSV hex strings and I know how they got the string of the year and everything.

    But you have got to try the blue gear with this stick. You get more spin but it also gives more control because of the incredible spin.

    Another interesting thing is that I was watching the tennis channel and saw the show tennis destinations with that hot asian chick......anyway she was taking a lesson from Vilas. He said a lot of interesting things one of which was that the harder you actually swing with topspin the more the ball will go in.

    I know it doesnt make sense but I just trusted the stick and swung for the fences with heavy topspin. The results were amazing. The amount of topspin I can hit with the Vortex /blue gear together with a huge topspin stroke is amazing. I almost have to close my eyes because if I think about what Im doing I will screw it up.
     
  49. haerdalis

    haerdalis Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2006
    Messages:
    1,597
    Location:
    Lund, Sweden
    Yeah worked out great! Thanks alot for the service.
    So now I am playing with the Vortex 108, Bab PST Ltd and Völkl PB 10 mid to see which one I like best. I like the feel of the Völkl, the looks of the Bab and the lightness and spin of the Vortex! The racquet is however too light for my backhand. Have to work on that. I think if I could actually hit my backhand and not just slice it I could play with this stick.
    Going to try those other strings. Arent you supposed to string it at low tension? I strung my Völkl at 42 lbs and the Bab at 36 lbs and the feel very good.
     
  50. Murray Mound

    Murray Mound Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Messages:
    653

    You can string at any tension you want. Wade....Toms son plays at 58 pounds.

    Also rememebr that strings lose tension very rapidly. If you string at 58 in a few weeks you will be playing with a 48.
     

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