Vortex Extreme Spin Rackets

Discussion in 'Racquets' started by BlaackSheeep, Dec 29, 2009.

  1. joe sch

    joe sch Hall of Fame

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    Sure, if you like low tensions like I do, then by all means string it low.
    You will just need to hit more topspin and with the BH just have confidence in the racket and throw it thru and over the ball. It will stay in like MurryMound recommends.
     
  2. joe sch

    joe sch Hall of Fame

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    Ok, I will have to try some blue gear ...

    Vilas did hit some crazy spin and that was with the head vilas.
    He would probably be like Nadal with a Vortex :)
     
  3. Murray Mound

    Murray Mound Banned

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    Incredible stick. It may be the only racquet to mix graphite with wood.
    I think pro kennex tried that a few years back with it's core line
    but that racquet was mainly graphite with a small
    core of wood.
     
  4. joe sch

    joe sch Hall of Fame

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    Actually lots of wood rackets had laminations of graphite although it was more common with the latest models produced in the mid 80s. The JK auto mid was an example. Bancroft had a few different wood models that were FRS or Fiber Reinforced with Steel.
     
  5. Murray Mound

    Murray Mound Banned

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    Didn't know that. Thanks.
     
  6. haerdalis

    haerdalis Hall of Fame

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    I have a Prince Woody that I always bring when we have wood competitions here (many complain hehe). Pretty good stick!
     
  7. KDavidson

    KDavidson New User

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    Vortex is sold everywhere. You can buy them in Austrailia.
     
  8. KDavidson

    KDavidson New User

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    I would agree that you need to trust the racquet and hit the topspin hard. When you try to guide this racquet that's when the ball goes out the back fence. I play tournaments all the time. I have made it to the finals of quite a few but had no wins till I started playing with a Vortex ES133. I have won 2 tournaments since November when I got my Vortex!! I find a shorter stroke works well but we all love to zip that topspin!
     
  9. Murray Mound

    Murray Mound Banned

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    You hit full topspin with a 133???? Holy crap!
     
  10. tailofdog

    tailofdog Semi-Pro

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    Big Bubba

    I used to hit Topspin with the BIG BUBBA 137 18x21 pattern Thats why i have been EYEBALLING the 133 but i hit out on ground strokes with a short swing. E-mailed Tom but no response from him on advice
     
  11. Murray Mound

    Murray Mound Banned

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    Call his son wade. He is a division 1 player and does a lot of the work . Tom is tougher to reach. Or just call them and tell them he has not been calling you back. It's a family business with a total
    of 12 employees. But I have a feeling that it's really starting to take off and tom's a bit over his head.

    In any event , just try the stick. If you don't like it just return it. How can u go wrong? Infact if I were you just get two models. Get the 133 & 116 amd return the one you don't like . Nothing substitutes demoing. Problem solved!
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2010
  12. 000KFACTOR90000

    000KFACTOR90000 Professional

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    I've sent them two emails and no response (2 months or so). :|

    I think a good retailer like TW would be great from a consumers point of view.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2010
  13. OTMPut

    OTMPut Hall of Fame

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    Just ordered a ES-100. Can't believe myself. Have been using a KPS88 since Feb 09, let's see how different this one feels!
     
  14. OTMPut

    OTMPut Hall of Fame

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    The main page of the vortex tennis site says ES-100 is 10.8 oz strung. The store page says it is 11.2 oz strung. Which one is correct?

    I am a bit nervous now.
     
  15. KDavidson

    KDavidson New User

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    The Vortex racquets have reduced vibration due to lower tension and string pattern, very arm friendly.
     
  16. KDavidson

    KDavidson New User

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    I don't use my topspin much. In doubles I'm usually volleying, I don't sit on the baseline much and that's where you need to be for the topspin.
     
  17. KDavidson

    KDavidson New User

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    I don't hit with topspin much. I play doubles and am not at the baseline much. I volley and move it. When I DO use my topspin I hit up as hard as I can and have had great results.
     
  18. tailofdog

    tailofdog Semi-Pro

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    I Know

    Yes it was one of the questions i had.The guys who have ordered them are happy with the service. I think it is just a sloppy WEB SITE. The 116 is listed as 29 in and 27.75 in and weight varies on the description. Same with all the racquets
     
  19. dflow

    dflow New User

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    service

    I have called 3x asking questions about the racquet. At present I have the 100 and 108. All three times the lady I spoke with first transferred me to Tom, and he spoke to me at length, and was a big help. They really try to get you hooked up with the right racquet etc. I don't think you can get that kind of service from any other company. I would try the PHONE! It seems to work the best.
     
  20. Murray Mound

    Murray Mound Banned

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    The website sucks. Just try the old fashioned way and call. They were so nice that I even was given Tom & Wades cell phone. You can text them if you like.
    Tom interuoted his dinner just to speak to me.
    I would give you their cell phone but I don't think it would be right for me to
    post it all over the net.
    Their website is a mess. Just call.
     
  21. Murray Mound

    Murray Mound Banned

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    The website is a mess. They are working on it. The 100 is 11.2 and the 108 is 10.8.
     
  22. tailofdog

    tailofdog Semi-Pro

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    Dog With Bone

    I am just trying to define my feel for what the different models do.
    I was playing doubles this morning and looking at what i do more closely.I serve and volley when i am warm. My groundstroke theory is simply wait till i see the ball well and hit it as hard as i can given the ball i get. Topspin forehand, slice & topspin backhand. Rarley lob, strong volley, reasonable serve.
    So my question is if i hit a forehand with a SW grip with a loose arm and, i hit it with all my might would be the different results with the ES 108 and the ES 116
    Thanks
     
  23. Murray Mound

    Murray Mound Banned

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    There simply is no substitute for demoing a racquet. There is no right answer here.

    General principles about racquets are exactly that general.....there are toms of exceptions. You
    really need to try both.

    If I had to guess....the 116 is the way to go for you, I could be wrong but that's what I think. Having said that , In answer to your question, the 108 is clearly easier to rip a topspin with a SW grip. But as far as your other strokes you mentioned I really think the 116 is better for you
    What I find actually amazing with the entire vortex line is volleys, overheads, amd return of serves. I have jumped am entire level in these departments.

    If you want a more informed guess, then answer these questions:

    - what level are you?
    - how old are you?
    - do you play mainly dubs or singles or equal
    - what stick do you play with now?
    - what are you looking to improve on?
    - how fast are you?
    - how big is your serve?
    - how big is your second serve?
    - what is your biggest weakness?
    - what is your strongest weapon ?
    - If you has to pick one style of play how would you describe yourself?: agressive baseliner, baselier,counter pucher, runner, serve amd volleyer, all courter, junk master , or something else?
    - How would you describe your strokes : short, medium, long
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2010
  24. joe sch

    joe sch Hall of Fame

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    If you dont like it, I will trade you a K88 for it.
    I love the ES100 for the modern game, especially dubs and the k88 is more of an old school allcourt SV weapon that I would use for playing singles on grass, ie Sampras at Wimbledon :)
     
  25. OTMPut

    OTMPut Hall of Fame

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    you have a deal there. :)
     
  26. haerdalis

    haerdalis Hall of Fame

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    I really like hitting on slow balls with this racquet but I dont like hitting against faster balls or heavy balls with such a light racquet.
    I am going to restring it and see how that feels.
     
  27. tailofdog

    tailofdog Semi-Pro

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    Took The Bait

    I took a lesson on tues. I questioned the coach on my ability to hit heavy topspin. His answer was age robs us of the strength to have that racquet head spped. I hit with power and some spin but, heavy topspin looks beyond my reach.
    I recevied an e-mail from Wade who said e-mails had been lost due to work on their site. He sent my e-mail to Tom who gave me a recomendation on the ES 116 and an apology for the delay in response.
    I have ordered it now as i wanted reward their taking the time to answer my questions.
    I will be playing with a racquet 2oz less than i am used to so, it will be a leap of faith! I have a box of lead and a balance board as a backup.
    I will give a very honest review without bias.
    Who knows maybe as a old club player maybe it is time for a lighter racquet.
     
  28. Murray Mound

    Murray Mound Banned

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    I think that you will enjoy the 116. But just remeber youwill be playing with strings that could be a year old. The tension may not be to your liking.

    It may takeyou a few sets to get comfortable with it. It will not feel as comfortableat first as your stick you have been playing with for years.

    Good luck and Im looking forward to the review.
     
  29. tailofdog

    tailofdog Semi-Pro

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    Specs Look Comfortable

    Usually with that light and big a racquet they, do all feel comfortable.
    There problems surface in other areas. I like playing with 45 and 50 LB tension. At my age i am not facing pro level serves and ground strokes. My concern would be volleys (which i understand is their strong point) or being without control. Even if i found their slice as a strong point (as has been stated) i would take advantage of that.
    I gave it a lot of thought and the racquet(WONDER WAND) and the new string pattern offer potential. I just received notice they are sending it out today!
    When i used to live in California i bought racquets from a small company in MIRA MAR called PRO KENNEX. So a small company can blossom.
    On the forum i have not heard any bad comments about these racquets. There are always people who racquets will not suite but, even they had some kind words for them.
    Knowing the history of the company Tom would have to have faith in his vision and innovations. If enough racquets get out there and reports are good they will be in demand by people looking for an edge.They are not strange looking enough to draw a lot of flack and a small start up company has to charge a little more to make it work.
    They are getting out in the USTA tournaments so should be getting noticed.
    I am playing in a doubles event April 26 (OZ TIME) So if i have the racquet with time to practice (AND FEELING CONFIDENT) i will give it a run.
     
  30. Murray Mound

    Murray Mound Banned

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    Its gonna take a little time to get used to. I would absolutely NOT try out for the first time in competition! I would not try any new racquet out for the first time in competition for that matter.

    Believe me I have been down that road. Learn from my mistakes. Hell I would NOT even play with a brand new string job!
     
  31. schenkelini

    schenkelini Semi-Pro

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    With this wide string pattern, is it possible to use floating clamps when stringing it?
     
  32. Murray Mound

    Murray Mound Banned

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    Sure. No different than stringing any other racquet.
     
  33. schenkelini

    schenkelini Semi-Pro

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    Good, I was afraid that the spacing would be too wide.
     
  34. tailofdog

    tailofdog Semi-Pro

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    Would Not Dream

    Would not dream of it. Did that before with a new YAMHA racquet that weighed 13 oz and my OHBH suffered terribly.
    Chris from the TW staff has something on playing with low tension. Seems Volandri is playing with 26 lb. Chris is playing with 30 lb and may stick with it. Just search for low tension (WORTH A READ)
     
  35. Murray Mound

    Murray Mound Banned

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    Your not gonna believe this but I like playing with completely dead strings.

    When you get new strings they are way to lively and the trampine effect causes you to lose control.

    The less trampoline effect the more control but less power. When strings have been sitting in a racquet for a long time have lost "playability"......I actually love that. This way you cam have
    really loose strings and still have a ton of control .

    I strung my vortex at 58.....but have played with it for 3 months. So the tension is probably closer to 30. Now that they are completely dead I have all the control and power I need.

    When I get a newly strung racquet I stand on it. And put a weight on it overnight. I Also have
    them stretched out and I refrain from playing with them for two weeks.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2010
  36. KDavidson

    KDavidson New User

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    I just played with a friend who used the 133 and hit the most insane topspin I have ever seen!!! Danielle is awsome with that Racquet!!
     
  37. Murray Mound

    Murray Mound Banned

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    I know! That racquet is sick. I loved it for the volleys...... But the racquet just looks so damn big that it's funny. The wide spacing of the strings make it look even bigger than 133.
     
  38. joe sch

    joe sch Hall of Fame

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    I understand what you mean about certain strings actually playing better when they lose their elasticity. I dont think tension loss ever exceeds 10% but there is a real secret with playing low tension strings that most players would not even consider, and Im talking 30..40 lbs of tension. Try it, you will be very shocked at just how well, maybe even better they play than 55 lbs. This is especially true for poly and copoly strings. If you dont believe me, look for the TW Chris blog.
     
  39. schenkelini

    schenkelini Semi-Pro

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    I have a Gamma IPEX 2.0 which basically is a Big Bubba. i was wondering if I leaded it up a bit and strung it a with poly at low tension if I could get some of the effects of a Vortex? Has anyone tried this?
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2010
  40. tailofdog

    tailofdog Semi-Pro

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    Wonder Wand

    Played yesterday were the Wonder Wand player was on court and they came up with the low tension dynamic idea.
    I wonder if Tom changed the graphite composition as well as the drilling pattern? I think the Wonder Wand was probably a good racquet in its own right. They lasted about 10 yrs. I think the Racquet name and their model names would have killed them.
    I am going to string my Vantage (WICH IS BOARD LIKE AT 30 lb) and see how it goes.
    I got on Vortex facebook and they have a bus they are traveling in.
    Hope they get known
     
  41. Murray Mound

    Murray Mound Banned

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    I actually learned it from the master stringer at usrsa . Think about it...... if you put strings at 60 pounds and let it sit there for 2 years it will be about 40-45 pounds.

    I was further explained that when people string their racquets they will lose more like 20 percent in a few weeks. For example say you string at 60. As soon as you take it off the machine it will lose at least 5 pounds. By the next day or so it will lose another five pounds. So now you are down to 50 pounds and have yet to hit a ball. Now you play with it for two weeks and voilà your strings have lost another 10 pounds and you are playing with 40 pounds of dead string.....just the way I like it.

    Now that the strings are dead the tension will remain constant and there will be way less pop off the string bed so far less trampoline affect.

    Try it !! I know it sounds insane but dead strings are awesome. All my credibility will now go down the crapper.lol
     
  42. tailofdog

    tailofdog Semi-Pro

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    Day One

    Picked it up this morning. First Class Paint Job. The ES116 does not appear to be 116 sq in. Now i hit for 40 min. with Tretorn balls on a wet court. I can tell its a nice racquet and depth of shot was very good. Because it was wet it is hard to judge spin at all. I did find control was not bad at all. I was pulling my shots a bit as the weight (light) made me afraid of flyers. When i let instinct take over i felt a very nice result on contact. On volleys i missed my 12 oz racquet. The Vortex volleys will come. On slice backhands it was great even in the wet conditions. BTW we play on synthetic grass.
    I will be playing more next week after the Tournament next week and, will give a better report.I do feel i might be adding weight but, will play stock as i explore the racquets potential!
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2010
  43. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    Now this is something i can agree with murray mound on.There is something to be said for old dead strings.I have used some demo rackets with old crappy dead strings+they played excellent.

    I purchased the yonex rq1s +tried to match the old string job that was on the demo.I used the same string that was in the demo at all different tensions but could not match that demo string.

    So it proved to me it is not just the loss of tension, it is the aging on the string that makes it so good.It is not just a little old either it has to be months old.I tried leaving string in for a few weeks+that was not near enough time.

    I wish i could find a string that would play like this, it was the best. Great control+spin but still had good feel+power.It was moving all over the place but that did not matter it was unmatched.
     
  44. Murray Mound

    Murray Mound Banned

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    Can't really be duplicated according to the guy at USRSA.
    But you can try standing on the strings or putting a weight on them for a while.

    It's like an old pair of comfortable jeans.

    Nadal plays actually plays with a different string than what he is advertised as playing with. It starts with a "D". Anyway, it's a completely dead feeling string.
     
  45. Murray Mound

    Murray Mound Banned

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    I think you will apprecite the racquet on shots that you don't expect and your natural instincts take over. for example A bullet hit at you while at the net, a ground stroke you can barely get to and need to swing for the fences , a huge serve hit at you in the body.....all these are sorta reflex shots.

    As far as your 12 oz, you have been playing with that stick for a long tome and are used to it. You have played with the Vortex for one day....there is a small learning curve here....

    The vortex is very loosely strung and it's a very head light racquet. It's a comepletly different premise than your 12 oz. One is not better than the other. It just depends on what you like.

    You have 30 days.....give it a few chances .

    So you in grass.....omg how do you play on that stuff!! It drives me nuts....especially when going to serve. I like to bounce the ball a few times before serving but on grass it doesn't bounce!! I don't understand how the pros get it ti bounce at wimbledon. I have to sort of fake bounce where I make the motion of bouncing with the ball in my hand.

    Tough surface .
     
  46. tailofdog

    tailofdog Semi-Pro

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    Different Grass

    No it is not real grass. It is more like an astro turf. It is great for the body as opposed to hard courts. Keeps you playing longer without injuries.
    Yes i will be taking time to get its potential down. The bigger head was not a problem as it swung easy. Just need time to play on a dry day. GOTTA LOVE THE PAINT JOB!
     
  47. tailofdog

    tailofdog Semi-Pro

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    Weight

    I just put my ES 116 on my postal scale. It is 296 grms or 10.46 oz.
    I am not complaining as this is heavier than listed. This is weighed with the vibration dampner on it. This is great for me as if i wanted to add weight i would have to add less. I will put it on my balance board and check out the balance. I have had very good luck tweaking my racquets. Most times with lead less is more but the results can be fairly significant.
    My wife who has played tennis her whole life is extremely interested in hitting with it.They have done the right thing with the attention to the paint on the frames.
     
  48. carlos djackal

    carlos djackal Professional

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    from what I see in the commercial, it's such a thick racket.....not my cup of tea...
     
  49. Murray Mound

    Murray Mound Banned

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    I actually agree with you . I wish they would make a thinner beam as well.

    Having said that , I still enjoy hitting with it.
     
  50. tailofdog

    tailofdog Semi-Pro

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    Specs All Over The Place

    I have a rebound net that i hit foam balls against for practice. My practice racquet is a 95 sq in 12 oz racquet. I then switced to my ES 116 and felt it was not as easy to swing? The larger head should no be that significant on a .
    light racquet?
    I but it on a balance board. It is 4 pts HH not 6pts HL It weighs 10.46 oz not 9.8 oz.
    So is this good or bad? For most people who would pick up this kind of racquet how it felt would mean everything.The specs they might not understand anyway.For me i have a fair idea what works for me and look at the specs closely.
    So iwill only look at my position. If i order another racquet i would probably go for the ES100 but, any of the other racquets it would work the same.Since they are a small company i could probably call and ask them to weigh & send me the heaviest racquet.
    So i will add enough lead to bring it to 3 or 4 pts HL and try it out then.
    All this is still good for me but the SPECS ARE ALL OVER THE PLACE!
     

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