VS Gut mains and poly crosses

Discussion in 'Strings' started by parasailing, Dec 10, 2010.

  1. parasailing

    parasailing Hall of Fame

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    My VS Team/WC SS have now logged over 20 hours and it plays great. I know there has been tension loss in the SS crosses but it is still very comfortable and still plays fine. I do notice one of the mains starting to fray and looks like I might be get a couple hours more before they snap.
     
    #51
  2. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    What's the frame and tension?

    I have a Speed MP 18x20 inbound from TW* and am considering Team instead of my usual Touch mains. I used Team once back in the fall and that was my only experience.

    *technically it arrived but warped/bent. It was so severe I noticed it the moment I took it out of the bag! Sent back for exchange. Their pickers/packers must work fast to have missed it. Or can. frame warp in shipping?
     
    #52
  3. parasailing

    parasailing Hall of Fame

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    I use a Babolat Pure Storm Tour GT strung at 56lbs on VS mains and 52lbs on WC SS. The first few hours I didn't like the feel or the playability but as the tension settle in and probably the WC SS soften up, it started to play better. I have about 22 hours on the racquet and notice significant amount of fraying. I think it's time for me to start putting string savers on there to see if I can perserve it a little longer.
     
    #53
  4. parasailing

    parasailing Hall of Fame

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    I put in an order for VS Team 17 BT7 technology so I will post back when I get a chance to compare it against non BT7 strings. I will be using Scorpion as the cross for both and we shall see how they play.
     
    #54
  5. dadozen

    dadozen Hall of Fame

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    Para, the gut broke in 2 stringjobs in less than 2h. Actually, it was something like 1h15. It was way faster than the stringjobs @ 52/49.
     
    #55
  6. ben123

    ben123 Professional

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    good to hear im awaiting ur results :)
     
    #56
  7. quest01

    quest01 Hall of Fame

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    My current setup on my BLX90's are Wilson Champions Choice hybrid with Wilson Natural gut 16g in the mains and Luxilon ALU Rough 16L in the crosses.
     
    #57
  8. kiteboard

    kiteboard Hall of Fame

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    I have pt57a and h22 strung with vs team mains/silver string, scorpion, nrg2, x1 biphase. I like the vs team/nrg2 the most, and the scorpion has the most power, but the nrg2 cross the most control.
     
    #58
  9. parasailing

    parasailing Hall of Fame

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    Which cross lasted the longest? My current setup of vs team mains and sliverstring crosses has lasted me an amazing 22 hours of play. This is better than using a full set of natural gut which lasts me on average about 8 to 10 hours. I do notice that the silverstring is pretty much dead but the vs mains are still playing well though significant fraying is starting to occur.
     
    #59
  10. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    How can you tell the poly crosses specifically are dead?
     
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  11. kiteboard

    kiteboard Hall of Fame

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    Shots start trampolining out. The poly crosses are the tensioners. When they lose tension, the whole string job goes bad. I restring the crosses, due to vs guts amazing ability to hold almost all its tension. Which one lasts the longest? I don't know, due to the fact I cut them out long before they break and restring the crosses. The fav. one right now, with the nrg2, I've restrung 5 times, and it feels very good.
     
    #61
  12. parasailing

    parasailing Hall of Fame

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    I did notice that it's becoming more frequent that the balls are starting to sail longer and further away from the courts. I guess I should just cut the cross out and restring. Thanks for your insight kiteboard.
     
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  13. kiteboard

    kiteboard Hall of Fame

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    You have to lock down and prestress the frame before cutting out crosses, and make sure that the gut is not frayed too badly, and don't burn in when stringing, by moving the crosses way up out of the notch path. Gut is the only string you can do this with, due to all others losing too much tension, and stressing out the frame when crosses are strung too tight compared to the mains.
     
    #63
  14. parasailing

    parasailing Hall of Fame

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    Thanks for the tips, never tried restring the crosses before but will give this a go next time. I think my mains are too frayed to try this. How does one pre-stress the frame before cutting out the crosses?
     
    #64
  15. kiteboard

    kiteboard Hall of Fame

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    Before you lock down on the front/rear clamps, loosen the set screws on the stringer, so you can pull on the frame and prestress it, and then lock it down again, so it can't slip, as if you are installing a new frame that's a different size!
     
    #65
  16. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    I also use gut mains and copoly crosses and have a hard time telling when the copoly crosses are going dead. But the mains usually break or I will just restring anyway after about a month of playing 3-4 times per week. The gut mains tend to "mask" the copoly's "deadness". I find it really hard to tell.
     
    #66
  17. parasailing

    parasailing Hall of Fame

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    On my PSTGT, I can feel the racquet producing more pinging than before. I think it has to do with the crosses becoming boardy and losing substantial tension.

    I definitely agree that the gut does a great job of masking most of the effects but I can definitely feel the difference between hitting with it around 8 to 18 hour range and now into the 20 plus hour mark. This is very subjective and you might not even noticed it on your racquet.
     
    #67
  18. TimothyO

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    I have zero knowledge of stringing techniques. Is it ok to cut out the poly crosses while leaving the gu mains intact? Any danger to the frame or special skill required?
     
    #68
  19. parasailing

    parasailing Hall of Fame

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    I finally opened up the BT7 package of VS Team and I can't see a visual difference between the current and BT7 package. They look identical but there is a slight difference in feel when i started to prestretch both strings. The BT7 does feel a tad stiffer and isn't as springy as the non BT7 string.

    I am stringing both up with Scorpion crosses so will post a review when weather gets better and I can actually hit some.
     
    #69
  20. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    You will get both answers on this. But if you do try it, make sure you mount your racquet first and then cut out the crosses and restring. That will minimise any frame distortion.

    I woould only do it of the gut was fairly new and the crosses popped.
    Otherwise I would just restring the whole thing. This scenario rarely happens with me, as the gut always breaks first or it lasts until the poly dies.
    Either way, I restring about every 4 weeks either way.
     
    #70
  21. levy1

    levy1 Hall of Fame

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    The natural gut crossed with a poly is the best setup in MO. In addition the best and highest rated string combo at TW is a natural gut/poly combo. I switched to Klip legend for the price and it works great for me. Comes out to 12.50 and half set for the gut. I string the gut at my normal tension and then go down 5 lbs for the poly.
     
    #71
  22. levy1

    levy1 Hall of Fame

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    I am a fairly new stringer but due to the info on this forum I have cut out several crosses with my natural gut mains with no problem ever. Even with very frayed gut mains.
     
    #72
  23. parasailing

    parasailing Hall of Fame

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    I was able to hit with the VS Team mains at 57lbs and WC Scorpion crosses at 52lbs tonight. Initial thoughts are it is much softer on the arm than the VS Team and WC Silverstring setup. It has a more plush feel than WC Silverstring. However, there were times when the ball would sail on me and I had to put more topspin to keep it in play and couldn't really hit out on the ball like I can with Silverstring.

    So basically, if you looking for a little more plush setup and can put topspin on the ball, go with Scorpion. If you are more of flat hitter, go with Silverstring.
     
    #73
  24. APG

    APG Rookie

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    Para..I am playing with full gut Babolat Black.
    It feels much stiffer but then again I am playing with a new racket, the X10 325. Have you had a chance to compare with old formulation.
    Looking to go as soft as possible with GE. Thinking of cutting it out and going with the VS Team, non-BT7. Perhaps difference is minimal?
    Thanks.
     
    #74
  25. TimothyO

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    I tested both side-by-side. BT7 is stiffer but not so stiff as to be a factor in GE/TE (I've suffered from arm problems). It's more about a difference in feel. It's minimal (tiny/insignificant!) from a GE/TE perspective but very significant from a touch/feel perspective. I miss VS classic but am now ok with VS black/BT7.
     
    #75
  26. ben123

    ben123 Professional

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    did u test only black bt7 or natural bt7 too?
     
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  27. parasailing

    parasailing Hall of Fame

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    Second day with this VS Team/WC Scorpion setup and the stringbed is even more plush. I think the string bed has settled in and it is a very comfortable setup. It has lots of power but balls tend to sail. If you are a flat hitter, go with the VS Team/WC Silverstring for more control.
     
    #77
  28. CycloneSh0t

    CycloneSh0t Rookie

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    does anyone know any cheaper alternatives to the vs gut that feels similar to a multi??
     
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  29. parasailing

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    If you looking for gut that is similar to multi, why don't you just buy a multi since it is much cheaper than gut:confused:.
     
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  30. parasailing

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    I had a chance to string up BT7 VS Team mains at 57lbs and WC B5E at 52lbs. I have to say BT7 technology has made the string a bit stiffer but not to the point of Pacific Tough Gut. That was a stiff natural gut string that I didn't particular like the feel until it took about 3 hours to break in which ended up breaking in 8 hours.

    The BT7 gut is a bit crispier than the non BT7 but it is not harsh. Keep in mind I didn't put a full set so mileage may vary but I had the B5E as a cross and it didn't feel harsh or stiff.

    So if you like the original plush VS Team feel, then better stock up on what's left.

    Compared to VS Team/WC Scoprion setup, B5E setup has more control and less power so you can swing for the fences. WC Scorpion setup is softer on the arm and feels rally plush.
     
    #80
  31. GlenK

    GlenK Professional

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    Just great.. I finally start playing gut again and they change it. Haven't tried the new BT7 yet but that does not sound encouraging..
     
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  32. parasailing

    parasailing Hall of Fame

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    I am pretty sure if you use it in a hybrid, you won't feel it much like I have. But if you put it in a full bed, who knows, it might be stiffer then you would like.
     
    #82
  33. Viking_Golfer

    Viking_Golfer Rookie

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    I experiment with VS Team 17 mains and either Alu Rough or Black Savagae in the crosses.
    I like both polys as cross strings :)

    Alu Rough is a bit more powerful, while the Savage gives a more muted feel.
     
    #83
  34. dadozen

    dadozen Hall of Fame

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    Since I've changed from the 4D100 to the BM200( 18 mains and a very dense string pattern ), I'm thinking about trying gut/poly again.

    I still have a 1.35 VS Touch set, I just need to decide which poly string I'll put on the crosses( lot of options: Scorpion 1.28, 1.33, Mosquito Bite, Tornado 1.17, SPPP 1.18 )
     
    #84
  35. parasailing

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    After 5 hours of hitting with VS Team BT 7 and B5E, I think this is my go to hybrid. Although the VS Team BT 7 is a bit stiffer than the regular VS Team, with B5E as a cross, it isn't stiff enough to justify having to hoard the old VS Team string before they run out.

    In addition, I find that the having the B5E in cross has help with control and allows me to hit out more often than Scorpion crosses. I find the Scorpion cross to be too powerful and hard to keep the ball in the court. B5E also enhances the top spin slightly more than Scorpion.

    So the only question is whether B5E will last as long as Silverstring. If it is anywhere close to Silverstring, I will be using B5E as my preferred cross with VS Team mains.
     
    #85
  36. parasailing

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    I am now wavering between WC Scorpion and WC B5E. Both have great tension maintenance and I would highly recommend either as a cross for VS Team mains.

    I think I will keep both setup depending on weather conditions. Scorpion is more susceptible to changing temperatures. It plays a bit stiffer when the temperature drops in the to low 50s whereas B5E is more uniform regardless of the temps. I find that Scorpion has a bit more pop and B5E has more control.

    I am waiting on another PSTGT so I can put in Silverstring and compare against these two at the same time.
     
    #86
  37. niktub

    niktub Semi-Pro

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    Hi
    will Babolat stop producing the regular VS team?
    :-?
    Wilson will change also i suppose...
     
    #87
  38. parasailing

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    ^^^^ I don't think Babolat will make both types going forward though someone with industry knowledge could chime in but I noticed some online stores are only showing the BT7 ones.

    I guess I will keep both string setups for the time being as it depends on the temperature during the day.

    VS mains with WC Scorpion plays better in warmer temperature and is slightly more powerful setup.

    VS mains with WC B5E plays better in colder temperature and offers more control.
     
    #88
  39. TimothyO

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    Classic VS Team is no more. BT7 is it. There might be some classic in the supply chain still. I know TW had some for awhile. At our local shops all non-BT7 has sold out and everyone stocks BT7 only.

    I wasn't thrilled with BT7 Touch. But on a whim I tried BT7 Team. Previously I found Team a little too powerful for me. This stiffer version actually works for me, at least in a dense pattern such as the PSLGT. Haven't tried BT7 Team in an open pattern yet since I'm now a dense pattern fan. :)
     
    #89
  40. GlenK

    GlenK Professional

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    ^^Encouraging. I've got enough orig VS team 17 to get me through the summer so I guess fall will be when I give this stuff a shot.
    I was planning on switching to Wilson, but your comments give me hope.
     
    #90
  41. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    I use nat gut mains and have been testing some soft copoly crosses...

    -Black Magic is very soft and also very powerful. Great for lower powered racquets

    -Kirsch Proline 2 is always a good choice. Nice power level and holds tension great.

    -Scorpion is another great choice...good power and soft

    -MSC Focus Hex is a good economical choice. Was a little low powered for me.
    -
     
    #91
  42. jjs891

    jjs891 Semi-Pro

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    Is Kirsch PL2 known to hold tension very well? Sure didn't seem like for me??? I liked the way it played though.
     
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  43. parasailing

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    Since we are on the topic of poly crosses, I think given that natural gut is in the mains, we should all be looking for that poly that offers good to great tension maintenance as a basic requirement to finding a good co-poly.

    So far, I am looking for a string that is less temperature sensitive than Scorpion. Scorpion plays great in warm to hot weather buti in cold weather, it feels really stiff and does not have that elastic feel. More so than B5E I currently have strung up on the other hybrid setup.
     
    #93
  44. parasailing

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    Has anyone tried Volkl Vpro or WC Mosquito Bite as a cross?
     
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  45. smirker

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    Since we are on the topic of poly crosses, I think given that natural gut is in the mains, we should all be looking for that poly that offers good to great tension maintenance as a basic requirement to finding a good co-poly.

    This is a very valid point given that gut is known for it's tension holding qualities. Poly's in contrast are not reknowned for holding tension (even new generation polys don't hold tension well in comparison to a good synthetic gut) so should we not be looking to pair gut mains with a crisp syn gut that holds tension well?

    It is all very well for pros to use gut/poly hybrids as they change racquets so frequently so tension loss is not so much of an issue. My feeling is that rec players would gain enhanced performance from hybriding gut with a solid syn gut or a crisp multi such as RIP control.

    What are other people's thoughts on this?
     
    #95
  46. Mig1NC

    Mig1NC Professional

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    I also use Prince Recoil as a cross with natural gut mains. This combo gets mixed reviews here. Some love it. Some hate it. Some find it just average.

    I rather like it myself. Recoil is a stiff syngut with a slick gore wrap (not a coating that should wear off).
     
    #96
  47. Boricua

    Boricua Hall of Fame

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    Considering price and durability, maybe a good gut main and as a cross a good and cheap synthetic gut as Gosen OG Sheep Micro.

    Anyone recommend this hybrid?
     
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  48. TimothyO

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    No problems with CoFocus on the durability front. If anything it seems to be "aging" nicely with the VS Team. The PSLGT is producing more spin and better playability the longer the strings have been in.

    On a related note has anyone else noticed that this gut/poly setup plays sort of stiff out of the tennis bag for a few minutes? It's almost as if the strings need to be warmed up with some hitting. It's no big deal but I have noticed the first minute or two things are a little boardy and less responsive and then suddenly everything is back to normal.

    And on one more related note I dropped the tension on my MP 18x20 to 50m/46x. There was a HUGE leap in spin potential. My serves are the best they've ever been and spin is just incredible, even with a "dense" pattern. I finally managed to hit a top spin lob which curved down and sideways out of the air and in bounds. It looked like a UFO whizzing around. My wife and I were convinced the shot was heading over the fence but it stay in.
     
    #98
  49. Boricua

    Boricua Hall of Fame

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    How many playing hours are you getting? Why do you prefer the CoFocus over the Focus Hex?
     
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  50. parasailing

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    I don't like it as it felt stiff and the slick gore wrap didn't last very long and the string just felt like a regular syn gut.

    Once the slippery coating is no longer there, it will saw into the VS mains which happen to me and it only lasted about 12 hours compared to over 20 hours using a smooth copoly.
     

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