VS Gut mains and poly crosses

Discussion in 'Strings' started by parasailing, Dec 10, 2010.

  1. parasailing

    parasailing Hall of Fame

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    The only issue I have with using a syn gut is it's stiffer to me and also it causes friction since it is not smooth like a copoly thus reducing the life of the natural gut string.
     
  2. JT_2eighty

    JT_2eighty Hall of Fame

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    I've us MBite in a cross with gut mains. Definitely the most powerful poly cross I have tried. Soft and too powerful, especially as it lost tension. It would be a great string for doubles/ s&v style players.
     
  3. parasailing

    parasailing Hall of Fame

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    So is it more powerful than using WC Scorpion in the crosses? Did you use the 18 gauge version of MB as well?
     
  4. JT_2eighty

    JT_2eighty Hall of Fame

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    I've only used Scorpion as full bed, and MB as cross string with gut mains, so I cannot compare the two exactly like that (although based on my experience and other reviews, MB sounds to be more powerful than Scorpion).

    MB only comes in one gauge, 18 (1.16). When fresh, I hit some of the best serves of my life, but as I recall it did not hold tension as well as other WC polys.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2011
  5. Boricua

    Boricua Hall of Fame

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    What copoly do you recommned as cross with gut mains, B5E?
     
  6. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    MSV Co-Focus. Nice and slippery with no texture.
     
  7. parasailing

    parasailing Hall of Fame

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    I have this combination and so far it's the baseline setup to compare against others. Right now, i find VS with Scorpion to be the softest and powerful when strung in temps over 60 degrees. Below that and it gets kinda stiff.

    B5E plays more consistent and has more control but not as much power as Scorpion.

    I will let you know how Black Magic plays in the cross when I hit with it tomorrow.

    There aren't that many copoly that are soft and offer great tension maintenance which are the two traits I look for from other people's experiences before trying them out.
     
  8. Boricua

    Boricua Hall of Fame

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    Have you considered Signum Pro Poly Plasma as a cross with gut mains? Ive heard it holds tension well.
     
  9. parasailing

    parasailing Hall of Fame

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    I read mixed results with this string on this forum so I am holding off until I know someone else has tried Scorpion or Silverstring or B5E as a comparison. For the copoly, I am looking for a soft string that offers good spin and decent power not a crisp string like Silverstring.
     
  10. Boricua

    Boricua Hall of Fame

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    Will using a thin copoly as cross be better? Lets say I use VS gut as main, will the 18 gauge be better than the 16 in the copoly cross?
     
  11. Boricua

    Boricua Hall of Fame

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    Is the VS 15L much more durable than the 16 or 17 as a main string? How do they compare in feel as main strings?
     
  12. parasailing

    parasailing Hall of Fame

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    Yes, using thicker gauge will last longer but you then sacrifice playability. VS 16 or 17 I can live with but 15L feels a tad stiffer to me and doesn't have the wonderful cupping effect.

    As far as thinner cross, I am not sure about 18 gauge but I try to use 17 gauge poly mainly because to me it feels better than 16 gauge and is a tad bit softer as well.

    My own concern with going 18 gauge is it might be too springy which given the VS mains are already powerful might not be a good combo.

    But if anyone has tried PL2, SPPP, or VPro in 18 gauge, let us know what your thoughts are as these are the 3 strings I might be interested in testing out against WC line which I am quite impressed with.
     
  13. parasailing

    parasailing Hall of Fame

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    I finally have about 5 hours with Black Magic in the cross and I have to say so far it's a nice setup. It is softer than Silverstring and is about equal to Scopion in that category.

    Power I would rate somewhere between Scorpion and Silverstring. It doesn't has much power as say Scorpion but it has a good amount. Only thing I need to find out now is how well it plays in cooler temperature but given the price for a reel, this makes a good cross.

    Does anybody know how PL 2 or SPPP plays compared to any of the strings I have tested so far? I think those are the other two strings I want to test out before I settle on a couple of different setups.
     
  14. parasailing

    parasailing Hall of Fame

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    So I had a chance tonight to hit with VS mains and Black Magic crosses and Black Magic is also susceptible to colder temps like WC Scorpion. The string did not feel as lively nor offered as much spin as B5E.

    I think B5E is the most consistent string so far I have tried regardless of temperature. It plays more even regardless of how cold or hot the weather is and this is definitely a good string to use a baseline to compare against others.
     
  15. Mig1NC

    Mig1NC Professional

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    I love this thread. Lots of good feedback and base of experiances to draw on.
     
  16. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    been using VS 16 (black) main/ RPM 17 cross hybrid for the past 2 weeks. APDC strung at 56/53.

    compared to my usual string these days. RPM 16 full bed at 55lbs.

    spin: comparable to full bed of RPM 16, not much difference that I can tell.

    power: slightly more powerful than full RPM 16. usable power in that it has a power level above and beyond a full rpm16 bed when you hit all out flat stroke. ball will go on blast mode. normal topspin and rally full strokes are heavy and consistent. No fear of flying long just like full RPM 16 for me.

    Comfort: softer than full rpm 16 obviously. no vibration on my arm. very good.

    touch: great feel.

    volleys: a bit more zip on volleys.

    serves. this is where I like the string job the best. I am able to serve harder and faster without the jarring on my arm and shoulder. Id say 5-10 mph more on a flat serve. action is the same as full bed rpm16. I am able to kick and slice the same.,
    I do not know if I can serve faster due to the power level of the strings or I am just swinging harder because the string is so soft I am not worried about my TE.

    durability: not very good. string snapped on my 1st racket at 12 hours. sawed through a main. I am playing on har tru so the wear is a bit more I think. 2nd racket has 6 hours on it and it still looks good without much fraying. the black color rubs off pretty fast though on the sweet spot.

    tension maintenance: better than full poly. There was 2 drops in tension. after a 1 hour hit it dropped 2 pounds. after 4 hours dropped 2 more. it stayed there till strings broke on first racket. so 4 pounds of tension loss is not bad.

    final thoughts: I will stick with this because I have no TE symptoms using this setup. I might string it higher to lower the power level but other than that it is a winning combo. and it comes in a hybrid string set from babolat.

    I am tempted to try the Champions choice but I am not excited on trying another new string setup. But I might... I only tried a gut main hybrid due to all the hype. I am glad i did.
     
  17. dozu

    dozu Banned

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    12 hours on har tru is 'not very good' ??
     
  18. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    well I guess its decent but I still would think it can last longer. after 3 hours on the har tru the gut mains were all worn looking already with the black off. it needs a thicker coating or something.

    it looks lame all worn out and it triggers my ocd... lol.
     
  19. dozu

    dozu Banned

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    har tru is prolly the most taxing on gut.... all that dust carried up by the ball... and usually the courts are so wet to keep the dust down
     
  20. GlenK

    GlenK Professional

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    ^^Agree, grit on gut is not good. Any time I play on har tru I'm extra careful to keep brushing off the strings. Specially cleaning them after I'm done playing.
     
  21. ben123

    ben123 Professional

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    if u want more durability just go for a thicker gauge gut and change rpm to a round poly
     
  22. Dags

    Dags Professional

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    I'm actually starting to wonder whether a thicker cross would work better in this type of hybrid. I tried a load of polys with the poly in the main and a syn gut/multi cross, and arrived at one that was 1.20mm as I found it more playable than the 1.25. Having bought a reel of it, I then put gut in the mains and was hooked.

    There are a couple of reasons I think the thicker poly may be better. Primarily, it's because thicker strings hold tension better. If you're a string breaker (which I'm not), then it would also last longer; the thinner gauge will cut through the gut quicker. The trade is in playability; but if you've got gut in the mains, that's surely going to be the overwhelming factor in the playability stakes. Once I've finished the reel (and there's a fair bit left, so don't hold your breath), I'll put this to the test.

    PL2 is fairly similar to Silverstring. SPPP is much softer. I've made a couple of notes on them, along with the other strings I tried, in this thread:

    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=362403
     
  23. parasailing

    parasailing Hall of Fame

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    Dags - I still prefer to use 17 gauge due to playability and also ease of stringing since I have my own stringing machine.

    Would you rate SPPP or PL 2 higher than Silverstring? I probably going to have a couple of setups with VS in the mains and a copoly in the crosses and I find that Silverstring is a great overall string but when I need a little more power or maybe more spin or temperature issues with certain poly, I want to use that setup instead.

    Right now, my favorite is WC Scorpion but when weather drops below into the 50s, the string is stiff but when the weather is warm, it plays great.

    WC B5E has better consistency with good control and decent power.

    Black Magic is somewhere in between B5E and Scorpion.
     
  24. Dags

    Dags Professional

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    My order of preference would probably be PL2, SS, SPPP. However, there are a couple of caveats. First, I haven't played with any of them for an extended period, just one or two string jobs whilst play testing. And second, I like stiff strings.

    As you're looking for a softer string, I don't think PL2 fits the bill. SPPP might, so despite it being the one I rate third, it's the one I'd recommend you try.

    Hopefully I'll pick up a set of B5E shortly. I did add a set to an order last week, but it was out of stock and I needed some other stuff for the weekend so I had to drop it. Maybe next time.
     
  25. parasailing

    parasailing Hall of Fame

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    I just ordered SPPP and CoFocus and bought 2 more PSTGT from my good tennis buddy so now I will have 4 PSTGT to test the following string setup.

    All will have VS mains strung at 56lbs and the cross will be at 50lbs. I should be able to post back later this weekend on how these two play compared to Black Magic and B5E.
     
  26. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    Nice. Looking forward to reading your reviews Parasailing.
     
  27. RF_fan

    RF_fan Semi-Pro

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    I'm interested to try VS 16 main/Pro Hurricane Tour 17 cross in BLX 90. I'm curious how PHT 17 would work with VS. I've never used either string. Does VS main move a lot? The only Hybrid setup I tried was Ultimate Duo with Alu Power in mains. How will this one compare? Or is there a better cross for VS? I was thinking to string @ 58/55. I don't hit with a lot of topspin and don't break strings.
     
  28. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    I really like B5E in the mains with a gut cross.

    I also like BM as a cross with gut mains, in a lower powered racquet.
     
  29. parasailing

    parasailing Hall of Fame

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    Mains don't move, just the crosses. I tried PHT in the cross and was not impressed with it as a cross. Read the entire thread posting to give you an idea of what others think of the various crosses they have tried. I am still going through a few more strings to find that one that works for me.

    VS at 58 is fine but I prefer the crosses a little lower at 50. Alu Power is an overrated string in my opinion.
     
  30. Lsmkenpo

    Lsmkenpo Hall of Fame

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    IMO, poly crosses with gut mains is a waste unless you are a pro level player,no matter what poly you try in the cross it will go dead twice as fast as it normally would, 2 hours tops and the setup will than play no better than using full gut at high tension and worse than a Gut-multi or Gut-SG hybrid.

    I tried the Vs-ALU hybrid a few times and every time I ended up regretting it.

    It is 50+ dollars for 2 hours of quality play, beyond that there are so many other setups that play better it is simply a waste IMO.
     
  31. 2Hare

    2Hare Semi-Pro

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    have u tried lubricating the string? I found that the setup dies because the gut main no long slides after just a few short hours. Once you put in some lotion, it's dramatically better! just like new! It's really quite amazing and I would recommend everyone to try it out!
     
  32. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    Interesting. What lotion do you use?

    Have you thought of starting a thread about it?

    (Btw, fwiw I've found the opposite with Co-Focus crosses: the setup gets spinnier and spinnier as it ages)
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2011
  33. 2Hare

    2Hare Semi-Pro

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    Just some body lotion I found at home that's not too greasy. I did start a thread a while ago asking ppl's opinions on different types of lubricants. There were apparently other threads on this before as well. I've tried baby oil, bike lube, finger ease, and body lotion. So far lotion and and finger ease works out the best. I don't think finger ease is completely non-toxic, so I would suggest just lotion. have fun =)

    I haven't tried co-focus yet. But my experiences on quite a few other poly crosses beside Alu had not been good. Alu just has such a nice response and power to it that's unmatched by other polys I've tried. So i just stick with alu now
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2011
  34. parasailing

    parasailing Hall of Fame

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    I find Silverstring slides pretty well as a cross and I think that is WC's answer to Alu Power. I didn't like Alu Power in the mains but never tried it as a cross. I found Silverstring was better at tension maintenance than Alu Power. Have you tried Silverstring and how would you compare to Alu Power?
     
  35. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    Anyone try Black Venom as a cross with gut mains? I just put some in my racquet last night. The strings feel a little "plasticky" (like Black Code) and they are notching into the mains a lot.
     
  36. parasailing

    parasailing Hall of Fame

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    I tried to B5E and notice that it notches the gut more and I have tried Black Venom which I know has a bit rougher texture and is not as smooth, it will definitely cut short the life of the natural gut mains.

    On a side note, I see you are putting up 3 of your Organix 8 forsale, are you looking to get the Organix 8 315s instead?
     
  37. 2Hare

    2Hare Semi-Pro

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    Well, I found silverstring to be much lower powered, which doesn't really work with 6.1 tour. I think string depends a lot on the racquet. If I have a higher powered, bigger head racquet like pure drive I may go with silver string. And as crosses, Alu power actually can last really long as crosses' tension is not as important as main.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2011
  38. RF_fan

    RF_fan Semi-Pro

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    I was really looking forward to trying this setup, and I did request 58/55 thinking PHT's would lose some tension but when I picked it up tonight, they made a mistake - put PHT in main and VS in cross - the opposite of what I requested. Of course I got a refund for the strings and labor. Another thing is these strings feel a lot tighter than 58/55, probably 63-65 for PHT in mains. My question is would it make sense to restring only the main strings? I just feel bad wasting brand new VS. Somebody told me that replacing only the mains can crack the frame.
     
  39. Keifers

    Keifers Legend

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    No, don't do it -- very bad idea.

    The PHT mains will lose quite a bit of tension over the next day or so. See how it feels then.
     
  40. Dags

    Dags Professional

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    There's a reason for this. Racquets are designed to have the mains strung first, then the crosses. When you're stringing the mains, the tension is only pulling in one direction: it will result in making the head shorter and wider. Stringing machines compensate for this by adding support specifically to stop the head compressing in this direction. When you string the crosses those add tension in the other direction, thus balancing the stress on the frame and leaving you with a racquet that's the right shape.

    If you were to cut out the mains and leave the crosses in place, the mounting system on the stringing machine won't support this: there's literally nothing that would stop the head from becoming longer and thinner. Cracking therefore becomes a real possibility.
     
  41. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    I will be trying the 315 out for sure
     
  42. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    I just strung up my rackets with VS black 16 mains/ RPM 16 crosses. I am trying to tame the power of the VS gut without stringing too high so I moved to a thicker cross. strung at 59/56. will see how that works. (I found VS black 16/RPM 17 at 57/55 was too powerful for me)


    i am addicted to the plush feel so want to make it work with the gut mains.
     
  43. tes

    tes Rookie

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    I have aHead Youtek speed elite I want to try VS mains Silverstring 17g crosses. The raquet is 16x19 65 flex rating, 100 inches. I have added 11 grams of lead. I most recently have been playing with Mosquito bite 18 mains head ppsg 18 crosses at 53/56 strung on a lockout.

    What tension would you recommend for the VS/SS combo in this racquet.

    I was thinking 59/54. Too high?

    Thanks for your input
     
  44. Smasher08

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    Yep, probably too high. The whole point of gut mains and poly crosses is to get power, comfort and lots of spin -- and at that tension you're at risk of locking your stringbed and preventing your mains from sliding and snapping back in place, thereby choking off the spin.

    Try Federer-like tensions for best results (ie high 40s - low 50s, with your crosses 2-5 lbs lower). It'll also improve the longevity.
     
  45. ben123

    ben123 Professional

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    please tell that djokovic who strings in the 60 with vs team mains and alu crosses
     
  46. tes

    tes Rookie

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    Based on the average of the two responses I am leaning to 57/52 but am certainly willing to listen to more advice.
     
  47. Smasher08

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  48. ben123

    ben123 Professional

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    no its smth like 61mains and 59 crosses for djoker

    just string your gut how u like it. thats pretty much all..

    and btw you compare djoker to us in a bad way but 1 post above you said look at federer lol
     
  49. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    Lol no, if you read carefully, I'm comparing regular rec and club players to a guy who's lost 1x in the world's top tournaments since November. Fed strings at a tension that will benefit even us mortals. And apparently Djoker almost does too at 56.

    But since you clearly think you're an authority on Djoker's tension and clearly suggest that 56 is wrong, let's see your source(s).

    Cards on the table, bend123. ;)
     
  50. ben123

    ben123 Professional

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    just because you read here that lower tension are better doesnt mean its good for everyone...

    and stop saying djoker strings 56 thats just wrong:roll: http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=380351&highlight=djokovic
    60,5 mains 58,5 crosses or 27,5/26,5kg ...
    there on his racquet is a sign with 27,5/26,5 thats his tension

    feds tension wont benefit most of you sigh fed has a 90 sq racquet with perfect technique. if you hit flat its not good by any means .. fed has very much spin and a 90 sq to control the low tensions. you mortals dont have this


    to sum this up: the tension you should use is the one in which you feel comfortable and nothing else
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2011

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