VS Gut mains and poly crosses

Discussion in 'Strings' started by parasailing, Dec 10, 2010.

  1. Mig1NC

    Mig1NC Professional

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    That's good to hear since SPPP is reported to have such good tension maintenance it should work well for a good long time as a cross to your VS.
     
  2. Mig1NC

    Mig1NC Professional

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    Well, the spin only felt so-so on my pacific17/beast16 hybrid. All other catagories were really good though.

    I really think you need a thinner poly than 16g to make the most of this setup.
     
  3. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    If spin is related to the friction or lack thereof between the mains and the crosses, it stands to reason that the thickness of the crosses will affect this. Presumably the thinner the cross, the lower the friction since there will be less surface area coming into contact with the mains.
     
  4. Avadia

    Avadia Rookie

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    I believe this is true. But you need to recognize that spin is only one factor of many. I have two racquets with this setup right now. One has a 100" head and is strung with Pacific Tough Gut 16 gauge in the mains and Co-focus 1.27 in the crosses. The other has a 95" head and has Pacific Classic 17 gauge in the mains and Co-Focus 1.23 in the crosses.

    I find that I do get more spin from the thinner strings, but way too much pop off the stringbed on a flatter shot. The racquet with the larger head, which I would expect to have more pop, actually has a lot more control due to the thicker strings, even though it has less spin. It still generates plenty of power, but exhibits less of a trampoline-like feel off the stringbed. It just has a ton of controlled power. I have a lot more confidence swinging out with this racquet on service returns and flatter shots than the other. With the other racquet I feel like I have to hit with a ton of spin just to keep the ball in the court. So I suggest when evaluating your hybrids, that you take into consideration more factors than just spin generation.
     
  5. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    Agreed it's not a simple and straightforward thing. In your case I'm wondering if the tough gut has less trampolining than pac classic, and that it's not purely a function of the gauge.
     
  6. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    Anyone have a good alternative for the poly crosses with gut mains? I want to soften things up a little. Are there any synguts that are round and slippery like copoly?
     
  7. Avadia

    Avadia Rookie

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    Actually, I was thinking the same thing. I'm sure gauge plays into it too. But I bet the tough gut has less power and more control than the classic gut, even at the same gauge. I still have a half a set of both to play around with, so I will continue to test this theory.
     
  8. The Big Kahuna

    The Big Kahuna Semi-Pro

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    What gauge and tension did you use on the VS Team / MSV Co-Focus set-up?

    The higher you go, the less power and topspin you are likely to get with this hybrid.
     
  9. parasailing

    parasailing Hall of Fame

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    All the test are 17 gauge strings and I stung up Co Focus at 52lbs like all the other copolys I test with. I just didn't get much power like some of you did but I will give it another go when the temps are much warmer to see if this is like Scorpion which is temperature sensitive.
     
  10. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    You might also want to consider trying Co-Focus in 1.18 as well.
     
  11. parasailing

    parasailing Hall of Fame

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    Thanks for the suggestion but I am going to stay away from 18 gauge strings as my past experience with X1, Alpha Gut, and WC MB were not that great. I feel 18 gauge has too much trampoline effect and prefer the 17 gauge variant.

    Only string remanining to try is Kirschbaum PL2 and then I will be done with all these string tests for now :).
     
  12. I Heart Thomas Muster

    I Heart Thomas Muster Semi-Pro

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    Gamma TNT has always struck me as slippery. It feels like it has a slick coating. One of my all time favorite syn guts.
     
  13. I Heart Thomas Muster

    I Heart Thomas Muster Semi-Pro

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    I've now settled on Babolat Tonic + 15L on the mains at 54 lbs and Weiss Cannon Black5Edge on the crosses at 52 in my YT Rad Pro racquets. I cannot believe the feel, spin and longevity I've been getting with this setup. I really do believe this set up offers the most spin of anything else I've tried and it's much easier on my gimpy wrist. Besides all the previously mentioned attributes it's like the strings are locked in place. Even weeks later and they barely move. I break string fairly quickly but these have held up amazing.

    Even when my wrist gets better this is gonna be my setup for a loooooong time.
     
  14. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    This has been my experience but as others have mentioned you also get more power which, if not tamed by sufficient top spin, can send balls long.

    So frame stiffness also plays a role. A soft frame can suck some power out of the total frame/string machine and also increase spin-friendly dwell time. (This is why I almost wish we had a third forum beyond string and racquets specifically geared to discussion of setup "systems"...spin friendly systems, high power systems, low power systems, control systems...I think it's more helpful to think in terms of total package than isolated components...)

    On my PSLGT when I changed from 16g Touch and 17g Cofocus cross to Team and 18g Cofocus there was a significant boost in spin and power but the dense pattern and soft frame meant it was still controllable.

    Today I bought a second Speed 300 and had it strung with VS Team 17g mains and BB Ace 18g* crosses at the same reference tension as my Touch/CoFocus setup. Eager to see how they compare in power and spin.

    *my local source for MSV is changing locations ans can't ship anything for a while. :-(
     
  15. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    They're moving but snapping back into place which is the beauty of this hybrid.

    Will have to try B5E at some point!
     
  16. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    Jack,

    I tried a bunch of multis and synguts in search of a low friction cross. My favorite was Xcel at one point but ultimately nothing compared to a coploy cross, especially wrt durability. Multis and syngut lock up MUCH faster than a copoly.
     
  17. scotus

    scotus Legend

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    I have tried B5E on the cross with VS mains.

    What a disappointment. A very mediocre string with less than average spin potential.

    I haven't tried B5E in the mains though.

    For a cross string, RPM Blast is far better than B5E in terms of performance although it is only good for a couple of hitting sessions.
     
  18. mixedmedia

    mixedmedia Professional

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    I too was not as impressed with B5E as many others were (I didn't like the feel of it in my arm). I tried it full bed along with some other polys before moving to natural gut with smooth poly cross. From what I've heard, if poly's in the cross, profiled is not the way to go.
     
  19. The Big Kahuna

    The Big Kahuna Semi-Pro

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    PLAYTEST UPDATE:

    After 6 hours of play with the MSV Co-Focus 18g hybrid @ 48 (with KLIP Legend Tour 17g mains @ 52) in my Head Youtek Prestige Pro I am ready to declare this playtest to an end. Every time I put down this racquet to try one with another poly (Weiss Silverstring or Kirshbaum Pro Line II) while they both feel very good, I can wait to get back to the MSV. The feel and ball pocketing is SO much better. I have never felt strings with so much comfort, spin, control, and feel. The power is dialed down just a tad from the other two strings, but more balls go IN the court as a result. My groundstrokes and serves are much more consistent than they have been with anything else to date and it feels like the racquet is simply an part of my arm - it is almost as if I am "throwing the ball" back. The sweet spot feels huge and the picketing is insane! I am totally addicted. It is really like a whole new game for me. Fantastic!
     
  20. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    Threw serves today with the Team/Ace hybrid. More (controllable) power than Touch/CoFocus and great spin potential. But where CoFocus remains smooth the Ace is already "denting" at the intersections with the gut mains. I've seen this before with other polys and suspect the stringbed will lock up pretty fast at this rate.

    There's something special about CoFocus. Bend most other polys and they have significant memory and stay bent (Ace did this when I bent it). CoFocus remains smooth. It's as if its surface is hard and resists crimpling but it's also very pliable.

    Once my local MSV source settles in I look forward to trying Team and CoFocus 18 with this frame (the shop in Atlanta carries a huge variety of cofocus colors!)
     
  21. parasailing

    parasailing Hall of Fame

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    I gave Cofocus another three hours on the court and this is not the string for me. I had a hard time keeping the ball in the court when hitting full out on the ball. They would sail out by a few feet compared to my VS Team with SPPP which gave me more spin and control but this setup snapped yesterday so I will string up another set with SPPP and Scorpion and do a side by side comparison to narrow down the one I like.

    I agree that B5E in a cross isn't spectacular but I think it is very consistent string especially when the temperature drops down in the 50s. It isn't as stiff in colder temperatures as the other copolys I have tried.
     
  22. Mig1NC

    Mig1NC Professional

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    I've got about 3 hrs on the setup. I'm going to have to ammend my previous comment. The Pacific Prime/ Prince Beast XP hybrid does indeed produce some pretty good spin.

    I took may ball machine out yesterday and hit on it for a while. My heavy spin forehands were definately jumping up more than some of my previous experiments.

    I need to play against one of my regular opponents to get there feedback.

    The reason I am interested in the Beast is becuase some people say it plays pretty similarly throughout its tension loss. Which makes it a perfect candidate for crossing on gut mains.
     
  23. neverstopplaying

    neverstopplaying Professional

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    I can attest to that fact. I regularly use gut/beast combo as I find a very consistent string bed over an extended period.
     
  24. The Big Kahuna

    The Big Kahuna Semi-Pro

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    I would drop the guage down to 18 on the MSV and lower the tension 10% and see how it plays. I think you might be surprised.
     
  25. The Big Kahuna

    The Big Kahuna Semi-Pro

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    MSV Co.-Focus 17L (1.18)

    Stringforum.net ranking: 94% satisfaction / PPR (price to performance ratio) 3.87 (ranked 8th best OVERALL of any string made).
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2011
  26. The Big Kahuna

    The Big Kahuna Semi-Pro

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    Have you tried Guts and Glory as a source for MSV?
     
  27. tennisaddict2223

    tennisaddict2223 New User

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    One setup that I use and works very well is Gamma Live Wire mains and Solinco Tour bite crosses. Obviously not gut but as close to gut as you can get without the price tag. The gamma last longer than gut and feels just as good. What is even better is that a reel of Live Wire does not go above 100 dollars. Just an alternative I thought i would throw out there. I hit with Prestige Pro the mains at 57 crosses at 55 and love it!
     
  28. Mig1NC

    Mig1NC Professional

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    Cool. Have you tried 17g Beast in the crosses? Does it maintain playability like the 16g?
     
  29. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    Yes, those are my guys! Wasn't sure if we're allowed to memtion them. I live in Atlanta and their service is great! They're moving into a bricks and mortar location and are down for now. Should re-open this week. Orders usually arrive in a day or two since they're located nearby.

    I guess it was a happy accident since Your Serve Tennis only had Ace available for 18g options. Just hitting serves atm due to ankle issue but I'm really enjoying the Ace 18g crosses and Team mains. Lots of power but superior spin potential keeps the ball in. While Ace appears more slippery than CoFocus it is notching where CoFocus doesn't.

    What's interesting about the Ace notching is that unlike other strings it still slides back into place. So it takes more energy to pop the gut mains out of the Ace notches (CoFocus doesn't notch as much so it's easier to slide the mains) but they slide right back.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2011
  30. parasailing

    parasailing Hall of Fame

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    After stringing up another racquet with VS team and SPPP, this is definitely the setup for me. This hybrid work really well from the get go. You get the soft and plush feel from the natural gut mains and the SPPP adds a good deal of control without being overly crisp or pingy.

    I tried Scorpion which was my default string in another setup and it just didn't compare. SPPP might not have as much pop as other strings but the control I got was amazing. I was returning serves with much more precision and control.
     
  31. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    What's SPPP?

    Now that I've settled on matched frames trying different strings is going to be a lot more fun! :)
     
  32. Mig1NC

    Mig1NC Professional

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  33. GlenK

    GlenK Professional

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    ^^That's great Mig1NC, somehow I missed this when posted.

    Thanks!!!
     
  34. Mig1NC

    Mig1NC Professional

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    You are very welcome!

    I remember when I started on TT, half the time I was like "WTF are they talking about??"

    That thread is good info.
     
  35. parasailing

    parasailing Hall of Fame

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    After 8 hours hitting with VS Team mains and SPPP, I have found my cross string :).

    It maintains good tension, doesn't have as much pingy feel compared to the other copolys I hve tried and is very comfortable on the arm.

    The string helps provide good control, decent comfort, power, and spin production. While it isn't the best in any one category, it does well in all aspects making it a good string for the time being until the next hyped string comes along.
     
  36. lefty10spro

    lefty10spro Semi-Pro

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    Pacific Tough Gut 16L mains and Prince Beast XL 16 crosses is tennis heaven on this earth and it LASTS and maintains it's playability and spin!
     
  37. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    Nice. It would be great to see a follow up review after 15 hours.
     
  38. ben123

    ben123 Professional

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    you play with the pstgt dont you? at what tension did you string the hybrid?
     
  39. parasailing

    parasailing Hall of Fame

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    Yes, I use a PSTGT and string the mains at 58lbs and SPPP at 53lbs. I will probably try various tension up to 55lbs on SPPP cross if it plays well for another 12 hours or more.
     
  40. Matt H.

    Matt H. Professional

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    I strung up a VS gut main RPM cross hybrid yesterday.

    too much power, not able to put enough spin and hit sharp angles. Felt like the only directional playability on the ball was north/south.

    I will admit, the "feel" at impact is that sweet sweet combination of smooth/crisp/pop that is very addicting.
     
  41. Keifers

    Keifers Legend

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    Tensions? racquet? head size?

    What strings were you using before?
     
  42. Boricua

    Boricua Hall of Fame

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    How does gut/SPPP compare with TCS in spin, control and comfort?
     
  43. parasailing

    parasailing Hall of Fame

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    Tcs has more spin, equal in power and slightly less in comfort. Only problem with tcs is poor tension maintenance lasting about 6 hours.
     
  44. parasailing

    parasailing Hall of Fame

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    Hit with VS Team mains and SPPP for another 3 hours and it seems that the string is not as solid as before.

    I felt some vibration that wasn't there before so it looks like the string has a good 8 to 10 hours of solid play. The string is still playable but didn't have that great control and solid feel like a fresh set of string.

    I will be trying a different tension to see if this makes any difference in my next setup.
     
  45. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    Sorry to hear that, parasailing. For some reason, I think I read in a thread somewhere that SPPP is very good but not long lived.
     
  46. Hidious

    Hidious Professional

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    Not able to resist the hype, i've also been trying VS Gut hybrids lately and my experience has been very similar to yours. VS Team / WC Silverstring was literally too good to be true the first 3~4 hours. I was thrilled as i don't break too many strings and Silvestring is said to be hands down the best poly available in terms of tension maintenance. Crossed with gut, that absolute best in this department, i thought this was going to be the best value job i ever strung.

    But it happened; after 4 hours or so, the string bed became anemic and dead feeling. I actually told my partner that i thought the balls were dead, but he laughed as he had just opened new cans.

    I sprayed a little lube on the sweetspot today and i feel like it might have restored a little bit of the initial magic.
     
  47. parasailing

    parasailing Hall of Fame

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    VS hybrid is no hype. Once you try it, you won't go back unless you are low on cash:twisted:. The only thing is finding a good copoly cross to go with it.

    Right now, SPPP lasts about 8 to 10 hours before it starts to fade. I find Silverstring lasts the longest of all the copoly I have tried so far but is a bit too crisp for my taste so I guess I just have to cut it out and restring the cross with SPPP.
     
  48. ben123

    ben123 Professional

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    anybody tried polys like pacific poly force or p poly force xtreme as cross this could be good
     
  49. Matt H.

    Matt H. Professional

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    VS-58 mains, RPM 56 cross.

    Youtek Prestige Pro


    normally full rpm at 55.
     
  50. Mig1NC

    Mig1NC Professional

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    I've used the Pacific Poly Gut ATP 17 hybrid set, which comes with tough gut and poly force.

    I really liked this setup. I ran gut in the mains.
     

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