VS Gut mains and poly crosses

Discussion in 'Strings' started by parasailing, Dec 10, 2010.

  1. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    Right now. :)
     
  2. GlenK

    GlenK Professional

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    Which cofocus are you using???
     
  3. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    Been a few months now..buying the new version ;)

    1.23 gauge by MSV.
     
  4. polytheist

    polytheist Rookie

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    PP, have you tried the 1.18? If so, was there much difference in play?
     
  5. parasailing

    parasailing Hall of Fame

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    I have tested out a few more crosses and here my latest update.

    1A. VS with SPPP - best setup for control and tension maintenance.

    1B. VS with PL2 Evolution - packs the most power among all the setups while still offering a soft feel.

    1C. VS with Zarlon Blue string - It broke after 2 hours so I need to restring and test again but I love how it felt during the two hours I hit with it.

    2. VS with Silverstring - All around great string. Does everything well.

    3. VS with Scorpion - Sensitive to temperature fluctuations hence the lower rating than Silverstring. Offers more pop than Silverstring but that's about it.

    4. VS with Black Magic - Had great reviews on RSI but only a decent cross.

    5A. VS with Black 5 Edge - Had high hopes but felt pingy hitting with them.
    5B. VS with Tourna BHB7

    6. VS with Cofocus - This string has received good reviews from fellow TT members but I didn't like the way it felt on the string bed. It was too springy.
     
  6. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    The VS/Co Focus result is definitely interesting to me. I recently tried MSV Control and was underwhelmed.
     
  7. EDK

    EDK Rookie

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    Speaking strictly *comfort*, how does gut/SS or gut/MSV cofocus compare against a full bed of syngut like OGSM or PSG? (Not sure I want to make the jump back to poly again...)
     
  8. Orion3

    Orion3 Semi-Pro

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    What did you think of the BHB7 as a cross?
     
  9. The Big Kahuna

    The Big Kahuna Semi-Pro

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    Cross String Testing Update (3 hours):

    MSV Co-Focus 1.18 impressions: soft, comfortable, resilient, lively, crispy, precise, with good access to spin and good feel. Nice ball pocketing.

    Weiss Cannon Mosquito Bite 1.16 impressions: comfortable, lively, crispy, precise, slightly stiff, with decent access to spin and decent feel.

    I would expect the MSV to be a bit more durable and to have slightly better tension stability based on it’s diameter.

    So far, head to head, I have to say that - as a doubles specialist - the MSV has impressed me more (especially at the net), although, if I was a baseliner I might lean towards the MB. Both these strings are very solid options as crosses with gut in the mains - small gauge to reduce wear, slippery to allow maximum spin potetial, and offer some pop.

    I will update this test as the string wears and loses tension. Then I will platest the WC Silverstring 1.20 against the “winner”.
     
  10. GlenK

    GlenK Professional

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    ^^That's great. You are testing the exact same strings on my list. I still like Lux Supersense best but they have discontinued it and sooner or later I'll not be about to find residual inventory..

    I am trying Scorpion right now and so far it is performing well. Only 3 hrs so far. Initial tension loss in 24 hrs was 4.6%, and at 3hrs it's 7.7%. That compares favorably with supersense. Control and depth on groundies are excellent. Volleys are crisp and easy to control. There is about a half hour break in period vs immediate playability with the supersense.
     
  11. mixedmedia

    mixedmedia Professional

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    Interested to hear how long the Scorpion stays "alive" for you, GlenK.
     
  12. mixedmedia

    mixedmedia Professional

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    So a thinner string cuts into the gut less?
     
  13. parasailing

    parasailing Hall of Fame

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    It also had that pingy feel which I didn't like.
     
  14. The Big Kahuna

    The Big Kahuna Semi-Pro

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    And there is less surface friction between the strings - so the gut slides more easily over the crosses producing more spin and action on the ball upon snapping back. That is the research.
     
  15. The Big Kahuna

    The Big Kahuna Semi-Pro

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    Tension loss on both MSV Co-Focus and the WC Mosquito Bite after 3 hours was about 15% - the MB slightly more.
     
  16. mixedmedia

    mixedmedia Professional

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    I don't doubt it produces more spin. My comment was in reference to your "small gauge to reduce wear" statement. I would think the thinner gauge may cut into the gut more and reduce longevity. (Not 100% sure if this analogy is appropriate, but maybe like how a block of clay is easier to cut with a thinner wire?)
     
  17. Orion3

    Orion3 Semi-Pro

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    The reported tension loss has been good.

    I've been playing recently with a CoFocus cross and enjoying the results but I've got TE creeping back and I think it's down to the string.

    Wondering if BHB7 will be softer on my arm? And hoping that the spin generation is comparable.
     
  18. jk175d

    jk175d Semi-Pro

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    my experience was that co-focus 1.18 did indeed cut into the gut mains faster than co-focus 1.23. It probably played just a little better though, crisper to be sure.
     
  19. mixedmedia

    mixedmedia Professional

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    I figured. Thanks for the info.
     
  20. RoughOG

    RoughOG Rookie

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    I usually play with TF X-1 17 and luxi BB ace in my K blades...but recently got a pack of gut from a friend but.. its 15L should I put it with a 18 guage string? or go for a 16?
     
  21. mixedmedia

    mixedmedia Professional

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    Depends on if you want more spin and power or more longevity. Thinner for the former, thicker for the latter.
     
  22. The Big Kahuna

    The Big Kahuna Semi-Pro

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    I get 30+ hours from my set-up with MSV Co-Focus 1.18, so I have not noticed a problem. I suppose that what you say about thinner gauge strings makes sense, but perhaps the longevity of the strings has more to do with the thickness of the main string and the tension than the gauge of the crosses?
     
  23. The Big Kahuna

    The Big Kahuna Semi-Pro

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    BTW

    Here is the Stringforum Poll Results for Poly of the Year 2011

    Rank String Score

    1 Solinco Tour Bite 144
    2 Tecnifibre Black Code 138
    3 MSV Focus - HEX® 119
    4 Signum Pro Tornado 87
    5 Kirschbaum Pro Line No. II 75
    6 Luxilon Big Banger Ace 74
    7 Signum Pro Poly Plasma 61
    8 Prince Beast XP 58
    9 WeissCANNON Silverstring 57
    10 Luxilon Adrenaline Rough 55
    11 WeissCANNON Scorpion 52
    12 Genesis Black Magic 43
    13 MSV Co-Focus 30
    14 Signum Pro Hyperion 22
    15 Topspin Cyber Twirl Natural 11
     
  24. RSPioli

    RSPioli New User

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    Orion3, which string did you use in the mains with CoFocus that gave you TE?
     
  25. Orion3

    Orion3 Semi-Pro

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    Using VS gut. Wondering now though, if the poly is dead as I've had it in one stick for around 4-5 weeks - 10 hours play approx.

    Still plays very well - tension seems stable, but wondering if the elasticity has dropped to a point where the shock is just running up my arm?
     
  26. parasailing

    parasailing Hall of Fame

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    You will be lucky to get 10 hours out of a poly before you start noticing they no longer play as well as when they are freshly strung. For me, I usually cut them out every 6 hours and restring as needed.
     
  27. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    What tension had you strung at? What frame?
     
  28. The Big Kahuna

    The Big Kahuna Semi-Pro

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    Stringforum Top PRICE / PERFORMANCE Rated Ply Strings (as of 2/15/12):


    1- Ashaway MonoGut 17
    2- Signum Pro Poly Deluxe 1.25
    3- Völkl Cyclone 17
    5- Kirschbaum Touch Turbo 1.30
    6 -MSV Co-Focus 1.18
    7- MSV Focus - HEX® 1.27
    8 - Topspin Poly Polar 17
    9- Signum Pro Poly Plasma 1.33
    10- MSV Focus - HEX® 1.23
    11- Kirschbaum Competition 1.20
    12- Kirschbaum Competition 1.25
     
  29. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    I wonder why RSI doesn't include MSV in their string selector. How does it keep passing under their radar?
     
  30. mixedmedia

    mixedmedia Professional

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    Yeah, I would think they'd have added it by now.
     
  31. The Big Kahuna

    The Big Kahuna Semi-Pro

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    Really surprising when MSV is three of the top ten best PRICE / PERFORMANCE ranked Polys on the market according to Stringform and has Two of the Top Ten overall Polys for Overall Performance.

    They make an awesome product for the dollar.
     
  32. Orion3

    Orion3 Semi-Pro

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    EXO3 tour 100: 54/49
     
  33. The Big Kahuna

    The Big Kahuna Semi-Pro

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    I was told by John at G&G with reagrd to the same hybrid and the same racquet: "We find that a 4# difference between the poly and gut tends to work well... sometimes it can stretch to 5 lbs. With your Prince frame and either the MSV or WeissCANNON with the gut keep the polys at 48 and the gut at 52 or 53."

    I would drop the tension a tad.
     
  34. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    Wow!

    TE from the EXO Tour with guts mains that low is really strange. Is it the version with 16 mains or 18?

    Did you do any mods?

    I used to ha e TE when I started playing with a light, stiff, HH beginners frame. I then started using softee, heavier, HL frames with soft multis and then VS later.

    I did get some discomfort from dead RPM Blast crosses but never from CoFocus even after weeks of use. If anything aged CoFocus gets even more springy over time.

    Sometimes a change in string can cause changes in technique which can cause arm problems. Last night I played mixed doubles with some A level ALTA players. I accidently pinged a lady in the shoulder and after that was so worried about hitting anyone I broke my swings and armed the ball. After two hours my forearm was a knot of muscle that throbbed all night.

    Another time I tried a fairly powerful multi that was soft and ended up with arm problems for fear of hitting long! Totally messwd with my swing path.

    So it might not be impact TE but you might be doing something different due to the new mains. More power than your old mains? Might be breaking your swing a bit.
     
  35. parasailing

    parasailing Hall of Fame

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    That's strange that you think you got TE from the Exo3 Tour. To me, that is the softest racquet out there and my shoulder is also quite sensitive and with that racquet, I can even use a full set of poly and not feel any issues with that racquet.

    You might want to see if it's your technique that is causing the issue as natural gut is the softest and most comfortable string you can possible get.
     
  36. The Big Kahuna

    The Big Kahuna Semi-Pro

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    Did you play on a wet court with dead balls? That can also do a number on the elbow.
     
  37. Orion3

    Orion3 Semi-Pro

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    Not really sure why TE has resurfaced. I have another EXO3 tour with BHBR as a cross which I've hit between sessions with the CoFocus - but this is newly strung???

    Still, I've managed to injure my calf skiing, so should have a couple of weeks to recover.

    Am thinking of leaving CoFocus in one stick (as a control) and changing the BHBR to either Focus hex or BHB7.
     
  38. athleticstennis

    athleticstennis Rookie

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    The Exo3 tour is a soft racquet but I it vibrates a lot due to its low flex. You could try also another racquet to see if the vibrations are what is causing you TE.
     
  39. Torres

    Torres Banned

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    ....which is next to useless given that the polling method they use is so flawed.
     
  40. The Big Kahuna

    The Big Kahuna Semi-Pro

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    So then here are Stringforum Top OVERALL Ratings for Poly Strings based on a minimum of 10 PLAY TEST ratings for comparison:

    1-Kirschbaum Pro Line No. II 1.30
    2-Topspin Cyber Twirl Natural 1.27
    3-WeissCANNON Scorpion 1.22
    4-Solinco Tour Bite 16L
    5-WeissCANNON Silverstring 1.20
    6-Luxilon Big Banger Ace 18
    7-Prince Beast XP 16
    8-WeissCANNON Silverstring 1.25
    9-Signum Pro Tornado 1.17
    10-Kirschbaum Pro Line No. II 1.15
    11-MSV Co-Focus 1.18
    12-Pro's Pro Plus Power 1.28
    13-MSV Focus - HEX® 1.27
    14-Signum Pro Poly Plasma 1.18
    15-Signum Pro Tornado 1.23

    (as of 2/15/12)
     
  41. mhj202

    mhj202 Rookie

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    PP-

    Did you get a chance to try the VS/Heptatwist yet? How does it compare to the VS/CoFocus?

    I'm currently using an all VS (team) set-up but wouldn't mind a little more spin and durability so have been wondering whether to hybrid the VS with lux (per your earlier rec, I may skip this for now), Tour Bite, CoFocus or Heptatwist.

    Thanks.
     
  42. Orion3

    Orion3 Semi-Pro

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    Calf (with a support) has healed enough for me to start hitting again. What a difference some neoprene makes!

    Hit for a couple of hours with the CoFocus crosses (12 hrs now) with no I'll effects. Hit an hour with the BHBR crosses yesterday - ache today. Think I've found the issue for me :( .... Love the BHBR - shame.

    Think I'm going to get on of the 16x18's strung with full gut. I figure that if I use this stick to practice it would save my elbow.

    I can then keep the other strung with a gut main and CoFocus/Focus Hex cross hybrid, to play matches with.
     
  43. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    This is pure speculation here, but the difference might be due to the composition of CoF: it's a lot more elastic than many other copolys. So if you prefer the performance of a textured cross like BHBR, you might want to try Heptatwist or Focus Hex. AFAIK, their composition is pretty much identical to CoF.

    I reckon the added elasticity helps aborb impact shock from the ball in ways that most other copolys don't.
     
  44. 2Hare

    2Hare Semi-Pro

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    Let's say you are the CEO of Weisscannon and you want to promote your brand of strings in a sea of polys. How would you go out and do that? Most likely answer is internet. Internet is messy and unorganized especially for the niche market of tennis strings. Of course being an efficient german you want to make things more organize and in the process promote your own strings, how would you do that? You start a string forum, using the exact same hosting company of weiss-cannon.de just to be more efficient. Now you have your own string forum along with consumers, who we know are easily manipulatable, check reviews of tennis strings. It wouldn't hurt to add a few positive reviews for your brand now would it?

    Of course this is just a theory, and by no mean am I bashing weisscannon's strings quality. But what we know is weisscannon and stringforum.net definitely share some symbiotic relationships that is worth paying attention to. I would definitely take racquetsportsindustry's reviews over stringforum.net though as it is simply more reliable and the sample size is usually an order of magnitude bigger than stringforum. Interesting thing is that, correct me if I'm wrong, they don't review weisscannon's strings for some reason. I wonder why.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2012
  45. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    I'd think they would rank Weiss Cannon #1 if they were in cahoots. I'm guessing Stringforum is European based just looking at the string rankings.
     
  46. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    Yes I did and the difference was not so big that you need to use it IMO.

    The CoFocus is just fine.
     
  47. 2Hare

    2Hare Semi-Pro

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    Obviously you have not been on there for long. They were number one for many years. Now that there's enough momentum behind Weisscannon, there's not much need to more to it.
     
  48. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    I've signed up over there but rarely visit. Whether it is objective or not, there is really no way to know for sure.
     
  49. Vasuri

    Vasuri New User

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    I'd like to have some advise please. Currently playing with Head Youtek IG Prestige Pro, mains pacific classic 1.25 at 52, crosses silverstring at 47. I have strung decidedly low because I have had some arm trouble with my previous racquets (specifically wilson kfactor six one 95).

    This string set-up feels fairly good at everything and I have no trouble with my arm at these tensions. The only downside is that the racquet & strings are feeling a little too powerful. Given my past arm troubles I would like to keep silversting cross at 47 - 48 tension. Can I bump up the gut mains tension to 54 - 55, i.e. 6 - 7 pounds tension difference between mains and crosses? Is it safe for the racquet and does it make sense as string set-up?
     
  50. Orion3

    Orion3 Semi-Pro

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    Definitely food for thought.

    I've picked up a set of focus hex to trial. Hoping I will like it as much as the CoF. If the TE goes away and doesn't reappear after matches I may switch both sticks to the hybrid setup again.

    Wondering what a full bed of gut will play like - last time I had one I was playing with a Donnay Allwood!
     

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