VS Starting

Discussion in 'Stringing Techniques / Stringing Machines' started by Irvin, Nov 12, 2012.

  1. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    I have been using the old VS Starting knot for all knots. It works especially well on tying off poly almost eliminating drawback completely. Does anyone else use this?

    [​IMG]
     
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  2. Roger Wawrinka

    Roger Wawrinka Professional

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    I have used this before, but I like using a starting clamp because they are all finishing knots, I think it looks a bit cleaner, and I like that there is little to no mushrooming at all.

    But it is a pretty cool knot though:)
     
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  3. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    I don't use this knot as a starting knot either only for tie offs. I use a staring clamp too when I start crosses most of the time (two piece.) I just noticed it was great for tying off poly. Easy to tie with very little drawback. I tighten it just like a parnell or pro knot.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2012
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  4. GlenK

    GlenK Professional

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    I use the Wilson pro-knot for all my knots. Just like the looks of it better than anything I've tried..
     
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  5. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    So did I until just recently. Give it a try on your next string job and see how it works out for you. I don't think you will be disappointed.
     
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  6. cluckcluck

    cluckcluck Hall of Fame

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    +1, I've been using the pro knot for since the beginning of 2012, not a single problem and I find they tie off nice and close to the grommet/frame.
     
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  7. Roger Wawrinka

    Roger Wawrinka Professional

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    +1, me too. From what I know, most pro stringers use the pro knot as well.
     
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  8. bigmalik76

    bigmalik76 Rookie

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    I started using Pro knot on your recommendation and have been very satisfied with it. I guess I will trust your recommendation again and give it a try :)
     
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  9. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    I think the Pro knot is a great knot and really easy to tie off, easier than this one. But I think this one works well in eliminating drawback. Works especially well with poly string. I dont think you can go wrong with the Parnell, Pro or VS starting knot. And if you want to use this one for a starting knot it should work well for that too. I don't think the Pro and Parnell knots would work well for a starting knot.
     
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  10. cluckcluck

    cluckcluck Hall of Fame

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    The pro knot works fine as a starting knot if you're not directly pulling tension on it.
     
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  11. The Meat

    The Meat Hall of Fame

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    Does this work for tie offs where there is little space between the main and cross? (Six One Tour two-piece cross tie off)
     
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  12. Lakers4Life

    Lakers4Life Hall of Fame

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    Yes, it's the perfect knot for those.
     
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  13. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Not sure what you mean by pulling directly. I would think you would want to pull on the top cross is that is what you mean.

    With very little space it is going to be difficult to tie any knot if you tie it between the intersecting string and the frame. But if the anchor string is above the intersection string it works fine. You don't have to tie the knot between the intersecting string and the frame if the anchor string is above the intersecting string it slides right over it.
     
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  14. cluckcluck

    cluckcluck Hall of Fame

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    Not if you're using flying clamps. You would need to weave the first two top crosses.
     
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  15. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    ^^Yes I guess that is true but you sure would have a loose top cross string. Especially if using a poly string. I would prefer to use a starting clamp on the top cross and tie it last.
     
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  16. cluckcluck

    cluckcluck Hall of Fame

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    I don't think I've had many problems with a loose top string. I mean, surely in the beginning but not recently. But you're right.
     
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  17. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    So basically the only difference between this and a Parnell is that instead of after performing the first OUT, you go OUT again below the top hitch and not through the top hitch?
     
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  18. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    That is right.
     
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  19. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Hmm, I will give this a shot next time I string a racquet. I do love the Pro knot though, and as far as I know, I'm the only stringer in my area who uses it. Every other stick I've seen has either been a Parnell or DHH.
     
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  20. stringwalla

    stringwalla Rookie

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    Witnessed this being done on Nadal's frame. Blast 15 @55lbs.

    Stringer was worried the starting clamp was damaging (crushing) the Blast at that bend and might cause premature breakage.

    Love the Wilson knot for it's look and ease of application-
     
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  21. Roger Wawrinka

    Roger Wawrinka Professional

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    ^How do you start crosses (using a pro knot as an example) without pulling direct tension on it?
     
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  22. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Run in the two two crosses and tie off the top tehn pull tension on the second double pulling the top two crosses. Or use a staring clamp and come back and tie offnthe top cross last.
     
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  23. jim e

    jim e Hall of Fame

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    You know, if you have a machine with fixed clamps, you can use a finishing knot ( Pro Knot, Parnell, Or finishing knot of choice) without a starting clamp.
    you 1st weave both top 2 cross strings, then set anchor clamp (machines fixed clamp) on 2nd cross string furthest away from tension head.
    release tension, and now tension the 1st cross string by itself, clamp and tie off with finishing knot can use Pro knot, Parnell or finishing knot of choice.

    Now weave 3rd cross, now tension 2nd cross and remove that anchor clamp, reclamp in normal position, and continue stringing as normal.
    This works real well, you are not pulling against just a starting clamp,and no need to worry about banging into it later in the stringing process.
    You are not pulling against a knot tied to another string or against a string that goes around 2 sharp bends that can be stressful with some thin multi strings or nat. gut, so all this is eliminated.

    I submitted this to the USRSA a few years back, and they published it in RSI magazine, so it is an acceptable way to start cross strings.
     
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  24. uk_skippy

    uk_skippy Hall of Fame

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    ^^^I have an alternative method.

    Weave the top cross and tie-off with your chosen knot. Hand pull the string until the knot sits tight against the grommet. Take fixed clamp furthest from tension head and clamp string nearest frame where the knot is. Tension string and clamp string using other fixed clamp. Then continue with rest of crosses.

    Regards

    Paul
     
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  25. MAX PLY

    MAX PLY Hall of Fame

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    ^^^^uk Skippy describes exactly what I do. Works like a charm every time.
     
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  26. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    I tried this knot tonight, and it's a nice and tidy knot. Looks cleaner than the Parnell even. Pic of it below:
    [​IMG]

    My normal Pro knots just don't looks quite as...neat:
    [​IMG]

    Nonetheless, the Pro knot is easier to tie, and is more compact. Regardless, thank you for sharing the new knot, Irvin. :)
     
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  27. Lakers4Life

    Lakers4Life Hall of Fame

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    Now that I've seen it, it's same as a Parnell Knot, or a screwed up Parnell knot. The diffference is the tail is closer to the frame than a regualr Parnell.

    Either way it's will still hold.

    Here are Parnell Knots I did in the past:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  28. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    The Parnell, Wilson Pro Knot, and the VS Starting knots are all the same then if you look at it that way.

    EDIT: The reason I wanted to try this knot came from looking at a double half hitch. Many time I see a single knot holding (kind of) with a sloppy knot on top. I figured I would try using a half hitch and put the tail between the knot and the frame and I like it a lot. Then while doing a little investigating on the knot I found out that Babolat VS stole my idea. LOL They just did it a few decades ago. LOL
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2012
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  29. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Sorry but it isn't new but it is new to me. I am curious it looks like you are using poly string, do you find this knot easy to use for poly and do you find you have less drawback when releasing the clamp?
     
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  30. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Oh, it's new to me too, hence why I wanted to try it. The knot there is actually Babolat Nvy tied on a poly main. However, Nvy is my personal cross of choice, so since I string it a lot, I can say that the amount of drawback was about the same. Really just depends for me anyway on how much I cinch up the knot. With Parnells and this VS knot, I cinch the first hitch up to the grommet before doing the second one. With the pro knot, the first hitch tends to be looser, but the top one grabs like a terrified toddler to his mother. All seems to even out.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2012
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  31. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Yeah, the difference is to be found on the front:

    [​IMG]

    You can see how the bottom hitch does not cross over top the first one and instead simply goes below it and exits in the same place. So yeah, the tail will be closer to the frame as the other hitch isn't effectively pushing the tail to stick up...by a few millimeters :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2012
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  32. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    One more thing I would like to point out is although this is called a VS Starting knot I use it for tie offs. I don't normally use starting knots but if I were to use one I would use this one if the other tie off were VS Starting knots.

    One thing you want to be aware of is to make sure you get that second loop below the top loop. It just looks better that way, I doubt it makes much difference.
     
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