VS Touch / Luxilon 4G 16g Review

Discussion in 'Strings' started by TimothyO, Sep 6, 2012.

  1. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    I've been a huge fan of gut/poly hybrids and have tried a variety of combinations in different frames. A significant benefit of gut/poly is its "casually accessible" spin. Just as power frame allow low-mid level players to hit with pace (often too much pace!) gut/poly makes it easier to generate RPMs. Good technique is still required but this hybrid clearly enhances, rather than inhibits, one's attempt to hit with spin.

    The problem with gut/poly is that the poly can drop tension so fast and/or change in playability so much it requires frequent re-stringing while the gut remains perfectly fine. The other key problem is that many comfortable polys do too little to tame gut's power or are too stiff and uncomfortable.

    Luxilon claims that 4G fixes the longevity problem with very low tension loss and long term comfort. And while comfortable like a soft poly it fixes the controllable power issue with a relatively high stiffness value.

    This afternoon I hit with a VS Touch / 4G 16g hybird for about two hours. So I can not yet speak to durability or changes in playability. I'll add those observations later. But I can comment on initial playability in a Dunlop AG 4D 200 Tour (unmodified) strung at 55/52 (there are 16 mains, 18 crosses).

    POWER AND CONTROL
    This is THE lowest powered gut/poly hybrid I've yet used. It's far less than VS/PHT. It is also THE most controllable gut/poly hybrid I've tried. It made my 95" Tour feel as precise as my old AG 4D 100.

    COMFORT
    After 2 hours no problems. The only issue, at least in this frame which is a pretty open 16x 18, is that off center hits towards 12 were a little jarring at first. Nothing terrible, just more noticible than VS/PHT or any other poly cross I've tried. On paper 4G is very stiff and I have a sensitive arm. It will beinteresting to see how this ages.

    SPIN
    I agree with others who have noticed the slightly lower spin potential compared to some other polys. For example, PHT crosses seemed better in this area. However, because 4G is so low powered, one can generate huge RPMs more safely than with softer strings. In other words, since RHS is critical to RPMs, softer strings can sometimes cause control issues when ripping a ball. With 4G I felt fearless confidence in unleashing a huge topspin forehand. The net effect was greater, safer, more controllable RPMs than with softer strings. This made shots like very annoying moonballs a breeze! :)

    HOLY GRAIL
    I've worked in high tech product management and it's tough. Investing in prototypes can be expensive and very risky. The key to success is a deep understanding of market and product requirements and the discipline to meet those requirements rather than cut corners.

    Playing with 4G crosses today I felt like Luxilon must have been reading these boards and collecting our thoughts on gut / poly hybrids. The product is stiff enough for amazing control and yet comfortable too. It also provides access to massive spin potential like other polys in a gut/poly hybrid.

    For me the real test was putting it in an open pattern frame and still achieving so much control. It's the first time that I felt this level of control in an open pattern larger than 90". I'm very curious how it might perform in an even larger head with 16 mains. If comfort and longevity pan out I may let my son try it in his Prince Exo3 Team 100.

    For now, compared to the many polys I've tried, this will be my go to cross for VS mains.

    EDIT: forgot to mention one of my favorite shots with this setup...taking serves and groundies on the rise. I never felt so confident doing so. Stepping into the shot I felt like I could direct the ball with great precison and confidence.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2012
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  2. Fuji

    Fuji Legend

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    I'm looking forward to trying this set up as well. Thanks a lot for the review!

    When you update your play time on it, please let us know how the 4G "dies" as normally it becomes completely unplayable.

    -Fuji
     
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  3. filphil

    filphil Rookie

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    Tim - thanks for the initial review. Keep us up to date. Would it be cool if you list the poly strings you've used as crosses for gut in the past for comparison sake?

    When you say normal, are you talking about polyester normal or lux normal?
     
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  4. Fuji

    Fuji Legend

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    Lux normal! Sorry I didn't mention that. :)

    -Fuji
     
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  5. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    Other polys and multis I've tried with gut mains:

    - RPM Blast
    - RPM Team
    - Hurricane Feel
    - Pro Hurricane Tour
    - MSV CoFocus
    - MSV Focus Hex
    - WC Silver String
    - Luxilon (various)
    - Xcel Premium
    - TNT2 (various)
    - L Tec (various)
    - others I've forgotten due to poor performance!

    Of these my favorites in the past have been MSV CoFocus and Focus Hex depending upon the frame and Pro Hurricane Tour.

    Playability-wise 4G 16g is my new favorite. Will update as to comfort and durability over the long haul. Hitting again later tonight (will have to put US Open on pause while I hit). :)
     
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  6. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    A couple of more hours tonight...total close to four.

    - a little more power as the stringbed softens but nothing like the usual increase as poly tension drops prior to its board-like death...Still oustanding control and more precision than any other poly cross I've tried

    - complete comfort and the stiffness towards 12 is gone

    - dramatic increase in spin too, no idea why. I've never had it this easy keeping shots in while also stepping on the gas hard. Either the softening of the stringbed is doing something or the confidence 4G inspires is allowing me to rip topspin shots harder.

    If the stringbed settles in anywhere close to what I hit tonight then I imagine labs across the industry will be reverse engineering 4G to develop a comparable product. In a hybrid with VS I've never hit any other string setup with this level precision and spin. As long as this thing doesn't become a rocket launcher or completely dead I'm 100% sold.

    I know there's been a lot of talk about pro contracts and such but based on what I've seen in just about four hours I can see why someone like S Williams would adapt 4G in a hybrid. Complete no brainer imo. For we mere mortals with much smaller bank accounts the big question is longevity...which is still TBD.
     
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  7. wrxinsc

    wrxinsc Professional

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    I'm at about 10-12 hours now with my 4g16L/N.vy16 hybrid - also in a 16x18 racquet - Volkl X8 300g. I also noticed the initial slight change (settlement) with the string after about 2 hours of use and playability has since held constant. I am not yet ready to cut these out so they have held up better than my usual suspect poly's.

    I had been playing with Wilson natty gut mains and poly string crosses; but I play in the deep south and almost entirely on 'clay' so the gut wasn't lasting for me. I really dig the N.vy16 as a cross for the poly.

    The only thing I would add is that this 4g string adds a level of touch/feel/response that I haven't been able to find with other thicker gauge poly strings. For this racquet I don't like thin gauge strings in terms of control even at low tensions. The X8 is a spin monster, and I hit with a heavy spin from both wings naturally, so I prefer a thick gauge string - now I may have found one to stick with for awhile given the added level of touch and feel.
     
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  8. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    Drakulie also reported that after a couple of hours of play the string bed seemed to settle in.

    I fully agree about the touch/feel aspect of 4G. It might approach the borders of hyperbole but VS/4G feels very close to a full bed of very soft multi or natural gut. It certainly didn't feel that way at first but with a little bit of play it became very, very comfortable and soft without becoming a trampoline. They did some serious materials science research to come up with this. I've never been a fan of Luxilon and this is the first Lux string that I really enjoy.
     
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  9. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    Getting real interested in this thread....
     
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  10. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    Hit casually for an hour yesterday and again today.

    Still very low powered, will likely age/die towards the boardy end of the poly spectrum rather than the springy end.

    Still comfortable but less so than Thursday or Friday. Spin fine too. PHT still holds the edge in spin and comfort. Good test will be on Monday night during men's team practice.
     
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  11. フェデラー

    フェデラー Hall of Fame

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    Tim thank you so much for your review!! Have you used VS with ALU rough? That has always treated me well and been the holy grail for me. Will hopefully try out VS/4G on my BLX soon.
     
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  12. maxpotapov

    maxpotapov Hall of Fame

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    You lost me at the word "boardy".
    And then again at "PHT still holds the edge in spin and comfort".

    At $16, 4G makes little sense now
     
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  13. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    There's the key issue for gut/poly users.

    If 4G's low tension loss is for real AND the string remains playable for an extended period as a cross with gut mains then $16 is a very good deal compared to many other polys (including cheaper ones) that drop lots of tension and die becoming an unplayable mess.

    It's a bit like full gut. Today full gut is a great value since it remains playable until it breaks. If you're not a huge string breaker (ie most low to mid level players) then it's a far better value than cheaper multis which require more frequent re-stringings.

    The 4G crosses are still far more comfy than other polys I've tried. They have a muted, poofy feel on impact. So they lack the relative pop of PHT crosses and are a far cry from something like CoFocus in power. It's just that they seem so perfect I'm trying to be extra careful in not getting carried away with them. So I may sound extra critical at times. In my heart I was giddy with delight at how hard I could swing and still keep the ball in with spinny precision.
     
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  14. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    Yes, tried Alu Rough, and this feel better. When I tried Alu Rough (and other Luxlions) I could never get my head around the Luxilon "mystique". My impression was, "What's the big deal?". With 4G I can see these being a very big deal. I wasn't a Luxilon hater, just a Luxilon heretic/doubter. Not ready to be a believer yet, but I'm listening to the sermon now. :)
     
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  15. maxpotapov

    maxpotapov Hall of Fame

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    Alright alright, I will order a set :)
    I played with Luxilon full bed or hybrids, I can see why pros are using it but they can afford frequent restringing and I can not. That's why I'm intrigued by "next gen resilience" claims. My dream setup would be 15+ hours of spin and comfort for $30 or less, so I really hope this 4G Luxilon will not go dead in 5 hours like they usually do
     
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  16. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    I have that same hope. Others haver reported positive results wrt longevity. Hopefully it will work the same way for us too. There will probably be differences in longevity bewteen hybrids and full bed as well.
     
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  17. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus G.O.A.T.

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    Do you think 4G is very similar to RPM team string. i thought that string was very very low powered with decent control.

    and that Nat Gut gets very expensive cause i break alot of strings so what Multi strings do you prefer in its place ?
     
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  18. フェデラー

    フェデラー Hall of Fame

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    Hmm good to hear. I'm very weird with strings/ Even though I use gut poly, and no matter how much pace and spin I put on the ball, I just DON'T break strings. It might be because I string in the mid-high 40's, but it takes me forever to break strings. The last time my strings broke it was the poly that went first. I haven't used a lot of polys in hybrids, so I'm not always good at perceiving tension loss, so I hope to make a comparison between the two as well. Really can't wait to try this out.
     
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  19. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    4G is definitely lower powered than RPM, at least when comparing the same gauges.

    I hit with my boys this morning and found myself having to use the frame strung with VS/PHT rather than the VS/4G frame. Tapping balls gently so my 12-year old could work on his backhand form was tiresome with the VS/4G since it's so low powered. VS/PHT provided a little more welcome pop when feeding balls for practice.
     
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  20. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus G.O.A.T.

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    VS/PHT is supercharged power for sure. Babolat has Xcel and Xcel power which is supposed to play like gut. what do you think about those ?
     
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  21. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    I really enjoyed Xcel Premium before moving on to gut. One of my favorite multis!
     
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  22. Prostaffer

    Prostaffer Semi-Pro

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    For those that have used gut. Are you using the gut at 10% more than the poly, using the same tension or only a 2-3lbs difference in tension as I'm seeing in some of the pro stringing logs?
     
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  23. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    I use gut mains 2-4 pounds higher than poly crosses depending upon poly and string pattern.
     
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  24. JT_2eighty

    JT_2eighty Hall of Fame

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    Try WC Mosquito Bite first before blowing $$ on Lux.

    Spin & comfort with gut for 15+ hours = Gut/Mosquito Bite. As comfy as it gets (although not recommended for 16x19 or more open patterns), for dense 18x20 mid and MP racquets... perfection.
     
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  25. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    Well, here we are 15 days later and I've lost count of the number of hours on these strings. I practice serves and hit the wall almost every day for about an hour and play formal or informal matches about twice each week. So at least 9 or 10 hours per week and that doesn't include hitting with my sons in the late afternoon. During that time I've used some of my other frames too so this set up probably has about 12 hours on it.

    The gut of course shows wear but the most impressive aspect of the 4G crosses is the level of control still present. Even in a relatively open pattern (AG 4D 200 Tour...95", 16 mains) control is perfectly fine. Comfort is good too. Not perfect but acceptable. Top spin is outstanding. I'm posting these comments because the spin and control were so amazing while hitting with my wife tonight.

    I've been working on adding some side spin to my forehand and it was really easy tonight. Switching to my 200 Tour with Pro Red Code, which is fresher than the 4G, and the spin was much more difficult to achieve.

    In other words, the 4G is aging nicely and consistent with reports from other TT members. Meanwhile the PRC which is only several hours old is less reliable. At least for open patterns I'm definitely sold on 4G. It has aged very nicely.
     
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  26. maxpotapov

    maxpotapov Hall of Fame

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    Ordered Mosquito Bite 18 Red to cross Wilson Natural Gut 16 and/or Pacific Tough Gut 16
    Thanks!

    I wonder is this Mosquito Bite bloody red? :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2012
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  27. gavna

    gavna Hall of Fame

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    I strung up 4 of my BLX blade 98's - 2 full 4G at 50lbs and 2 with 4G in the mains at 48lbs and Wilson gut in the crosses at 52lbs - all 16L.......I strung them on a TF6000......wow i am in LOVE with the hybrid, I had to switch away from full poly about 6mos ago but would be willing to even use a full bed of 4G!!! i'm an open player and play ITF senior events on a regular basis -

    The level of comfort and control really shocked me....i stayed away from any reviews posted just to assure i didn't go in with any preconceived notions. I have played 3 sets of singles (about 1.5 hrs) and 8 sets of doubles (4 hrs +) along with 2 hrs of drills this morning and 2 hrs this past Monday switching sticks every set or so.......so far i have measured less than a 3% tension loss - I also used a Babolat RDC machine to measure the stringbed stiffness 3x this week and found similar very low loss of stiffness.
     
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  28. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    Update on Luxilon 4G as cross:

    I now have both of my 200 Tours strung with VS Tour / 4G 16.

    I've noticed something interesting about how it ages. For the first few hours it's very comfortable, it then goes through a brief period of less comfort, and then settles in for the long haul to something close to a pillow!

    When I had the first frame strung with 4G I was worried that it may not be all that comfortable over the long haul. I felt indications that it was becoming stiff, dead, and boardy. I was ready to give up on 4G and had the other Tour strung with VS / Pro Red Code 16.

    After several more hours of play with both I noticed the PRC frame was hurting my arm while the 4G was becoming softer!

    So I had the PRC frame restrung with VS / 4G. The second 4G frame has followed the same sequence: perfect comfort at first, a brief period of less comfort, and then it breaks in to perfectly soft and pillow like.

    At all times the 4G provides amazing control and good spin potential. Of the many poly crosses I've tried with gut it provides the best combination of control and comfort (other provide equal comfort but not nearly as much comtrol). Spin potential is not quite as good as other but certainly good enough. I'm glad that I didn't panic and cut out the 4G when it went through that brief period of lower comfort (but never truly uncomfortable).
     
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  29. filphil

    filphil Rookie

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    Sounds like I should give this setup a try on my next stringing. I hope that doesn't come along for another 2 months though. :)

    In terms of power, or lack there of, how did it compare to your other hybrids? When I hybrid I usually go for the smallest poly cross I can find. I'm afraid the thicker gauges the 4g come in may rob me of some of that power and give me a boardy feeling.

    I use 10% differential when hybriding gut with a poly. I also do the yonex 5% cross differential also so I take a total of 15% off when I do a gut/poly hybrid.
     
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  30. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    It's low powered compared to other poly crosses such as Black Ice 17g and 16g and Focus Hex 17g and 16g. I had generally avoided 16g poly for the same reason: fear of it being too stiff and boardy. But 4G is different. It does go through a period of lower comfort early in its lifespan. It then mellows out and feels plush. Not sure how it would feel in dense string beds. In my 16x19 it feels good.
     
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  31. Maui19

    Maui19 Hall of Fame

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    I finally tried some 4G (17g) hybrid with Classic gut today. I found it to be okay. For me, it isn't as good as the gut/Tour Bite hybrid I have been playing. It doesn't spin as well or feel as good. Don't get me wrong, it is a fine setup, and probably better than the gut/Hurricane Feel setup I had been playing, although the Hurricane Feel setup has set the standard for longevity in my gut/poly hybrid.

    It's not a bad string for me, just not as good as some others.
     
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  32. Federerkblade

    Federerkblade Professional

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    Timothy

    where are you buying 4g from in the uk and how much for
     
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  33. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    I agree the 4G spin potential is not as great as with other gut/poly hybrids. I found PHT much better in that department. Both seem pretty comfortable and durable. 4G definitely had the edge in control over PHT and other poly crosses I've tried. Definitely a trade off.
     
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  34. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    I'm in the US. Is there a Dunwoody in the UK?
     
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  35. neverstopplaying

    neverstopplaying Professional

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    timothyO

    Your review of this setup reminds me of what I currently experience with VS/Beast XP. Have you tried VS with XP? I'll give this a shot next time I order strings.
     
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  36. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    Yes. Found it a little hrash for my arm.
     
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  37. neverstopplaying

    neverstopplaying Professional

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    Thanks for the response. I'll definitely give 4G a try.
     
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  38. Maui19

    Maui19 Hall of Fame

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    I've been hitting the 4G a little and it has definitely gotten better. I think I am seeing marginally more spin but it definitely feels softer. Now that I've got about 4 hours on it, I would put it just slightly behind my gut/Tour Bite hybrid. Tension drop (4lbs) is comparable to the best "tension holding" polys I have tried.
     
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  39. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    Finally had to cut out the 4G in one of the frames. The gut looked worn and near breaking anyway but the 4G actually started to become just harsh enough that I didn't like it. Spin was still great and control was outstanding as always. Wasn't boardy or anything extreme, just a little unpleasant over a 2 hour hitting session. Effects quickly wore off but better safe than sorry.

    In any case it certainly lasts longer than other co-polys and control is outstanding. Spin not quite as good as others but still excellent in this hybrid.

    With my Tours on a diet (removed about 4 grams of material from the bumper for a nimbler 200 Tour...that's 16" of lead tape!) I'm going to have one of the frames strung with a favorite, Focus Hex 1.27, so I can compare head to head with 4G. The reduced SW also dropped the power so maybe the softer Focus Hex can provide both its superior spin potential and adequate control in this new configuration. There's no TWU data on Hex 1.27 but the 1.18 shows a tension drop of about 13# at 51# reference tension. With 4G around 10# the Hex 1.27 is probably similar based on my previous experience with it.
     
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  40. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus G.O.A.T.

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    you didn't like the Xcel power too much. what was it about Xcel premium that you preferred ?
     
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  41. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    Control felt a little better.
     
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  42. parasailing

    parasailing Hall of Fame

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    Xcel Premium is more plush and Xcel Power is more crisp so if it's a preference.
     
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  43. neverstopplaying

    neverstopplaying Professional

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    TimothyO

    Thanks for suggesting this setup. My last string order included VS Team with 4G 17ga and it is absolute bliss. I recently switched to the P1 and this racquet/string combo offers the best feel / performance combination that I've used to date.

    I play indoors from Sept to April and found my usual VS Team 55/ Beast XP 51 setup a little too powerful for the P1. I went up to 57 last time I nailed it with 59/54. Though I like Beast, it is definitely not a plush as 4G, and 4G offers the same performance.

    Hopefully I will experience the same longevity as you have noted. Off to the courts.....
     
    #43
  44. ramos77

    ramos77 Semi-Pro

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    has anyone tried wilson natural gut and 4g?

    have tried VS and wilson NG, the wilson being the better string, in terms of durability, touch and control IMO.
     
    #44
  45. katelyn16

    katelyn16 New User

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    Anyone have opinion on lux 4g 130 @ 40# pure drive light 16gauge. Thanks tom
     
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  46. mrc

    mrc Rookie

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    4g might be okay...signum Pro poly plasma 1.23 holds tension VERY well and has been a great cross at a great price. Love that string in hybrid
     
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