Was Austin just a hard court specialist?

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by NadalAgassi, Jul 28, 2011.

  1. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Yes, Martina had to deal with a very strong, but early done - as you quoted- Austin, a great talent like Mandlikova and a still very strong Evert.And she dominated Graf in her first matches.

    I know Sanchez and Sabatini were very good players, but in the middle to late 80´s weren´t nearly comparable to their peak, which they reached in the early to middle 90´s, just the same as Seles.That is the point I wanted to make...and Goolagong, in 1980 won Wimbledon (which Chris Evert didn´t at the same age) beating both Tracy & Chris... and BJK, in 1982 had beaten Austin and had reached the W sf.They were still good enough to challenge anybody, even if I agree that they were already done.
     
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  2. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    1980 was the last year Goolagong played any good tennis. Martina began winning slams regularly in December 1981. By then Evonne was already out of the top 10 for good and finished. Nearly 40 year old King began beating an Austin who was already washed up and finished due to back injuries which would soon force to retire. The last good tennis Austin ever played was the end of 1981. The last really good tennis King ever played was probably Wimbledon 1975. Navratilova reached the final of most major events she played from 89-91 (6 of 9), she was obviously far from done even at that point.

    How can you say Navratilova was washed up in the mid to late 80s, and call King and Goolagong in the early 80s good. You do realize Navratilova of 87-89 (let alone 85-86) would have destroyed King or Goolagong of 80-82, or Navratilova herself of 1980-most of 1981.
     
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  3. BTURNER

    BTURNER Hall of Fame

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    Here we go again, sentence after sentence n these posts I keep wanting to add the constant addendum for players 'past their prime' It does not depend on the year, it depends on the match. On a good day or in a good tournament, they produced sublime tennis that compared very well with their very best stuff from their dominant years,. If their body, and mind were in good shape, everything could flow unimpeded. All that was missing was the pressure of expectation only the number one in the world will feel. Yes for spurts, these players can and did turn back the clock into their 30's and beyond. They just could not 'will' it, and that was when the flat, erratic,and sluggish tennis resulted. It happened more frequently, with each anniversary, until sublime stuff showed up only for a half dozen matches. You pick the wrong match, on the wrong day, you're playing vintage Goolagong, Evert, Navratilova or Court or King.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2011
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  4. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    Back to Austin one thing I wonder is if her chances of winning the Australian Open on slow grass would have been higher than either winning the French or obviously Wimbledon on fast grass. Also could she have hung in long enough to be a contender to win slams still by 1988 when the Australian Open moved to rebound ace (when she would be only 25, but facing the new age power hitters like Graf). Rebound ace would have been a great surface for her, as actually all hard courts and even any indoors/carpet surfaces were.

    Clay she is an enigma which we really dont know much about to how she would have fared had she stayed on course, as she rarely played on it in her peak years. Fast grass we all seem to agree she would always struggle on and probably never win have won Wimbledon barring a major break of sorts.
     
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  5. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Austin first big win was in Rome, breaking Evert´s record on most successive wins on clay courts.
     
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  6. BTURNER

    BTURNER Hall of Fame

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    honestly, I don't think she would have remained a threat through 88. I think the kind of mindset she would have had to keep constant, considering how much depended on extreme concentration/ stamina would lead to mental exhaustion/burnout by then a la Borg. She would have needed to play the entire hard court season to keep her ranking up while learning to become more versatile, for those other surfaces, yet avoid injury. Tunnel vision and drive can take you far in the late 70's and early 80's, but ... I don't know.
     
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  7. suwanee4712

    suwanee4712 Professional

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    I think it would've been interesting to watch Austin grow and learn on grass, especially Australian grass where the ball typically bounced higher and the weather was warmer. I don't know that she would've ever won either. But I do know that there were few players in any era that was as tenacious as she. That's what made her a great player more than anything.

    With her physical skills, if Jaeger had been more like Austin mentally, there is no doubt in my mind that she could've been a threat to win a big one on any surface. I could see her having at least a Geralitus-type career of great runs and individual match wins on grass, even if she might've fallen short at Wimbledon.

    If Jaeger could beat Evert on red or green clay as late as 1982, there's no doubt that Austin could have as well. And if you can beat Evert on red clay then you can win the French Open.

    The greatness of these players is part of the proof of the absolute greatness of Evert and Navratilova. They didn't just dominate weak fields, they legitimately handled great contenders throughout their long careers.
     
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  8. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    ¿ What happened to our interesting conversation about Graf?

    Has been deleted? then, check out like 75% of the posts that start with question "A" and end up with question "Z".

    What is the concept of democracy in TT?
     
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  9. Joe Pike

    Joe Pike Banned

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    And who are those "great contenders" supposed to be?
     
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  10. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Evert: Navratilova,King,Court,Wade,Mandlikova,Hanika,Cawley,Ruzici,Jausovec,Morozova,Casals,Austin,Jaeger,Shriver,Jordan,Barker,Stove,Fromholtz,Reid,Stevens,Turnbull, in no particular order

    Navratilova:
    Evert,King,Cawley,Wade,Ruzici,Jausovec,Austin,Jaeger,Shriver,Jordan,Barker,Reid,Fromholtz,Stevens,Turnbull,Mandlikova,Hanika,Kohde,Sukova and of course, Graf for a while and Seles for a while
     
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  11. Joe Pike

    Joe Pike Banned

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    The great majority of them were true clowns who would have got steamrollered by a Barbara Paulus, a Natalie Tauziat or a Caroline Wozniacki.
     
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  12. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Say names.Paulus, who? Tauziat played a W final, so did Stove who also won a lot of majors in doubles and Wozniacki is the weakest nº 1 player ever, I mean, winning Indian Wells is, and certainly will be her greatest acheivements ( along with all those phantastic Copenhaguen titles already won).Leslie Allen and Barbara Potter would probably sweep the floor with her.And they never reached above nº 15...
     
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  13. Rock Strongo

    Rock Strongo Legend

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    I got pissed off and reported. I'm sick and tired of EVERY DAMN WOMEN'S TENNIS THREAD turning into a Graf thread.
     
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  14. Joe Pike

    Joe Pike Banned

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    "Der größte Lump im ganzen Land, das ist und bleibt der Denunziant."
     
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  15. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    You should do the same with almost 80% of threads over here.

    We didn´t even know what happened to those bad habits Agassi had...before or after Graf became her partner??
     
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  16. suwanee4712

    suwanee4712 Professional

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    You can drive him off the board if you have the time and energy to do it. We did it to him several years ago when he was posting as Condeleezza. He was made to look like an idiot over and over again and eventually the really decent Graf fans wanted him off the board because they realized that he does an injustice to Steffi instead of exalting her.

    The thing is he knows a lot of facts, but he has no real perspective on individual eras of tennis in how they relate and how they do not relate to one another. He has the intelligence to understand this, but because this would undermine his arguments 99% of the time he chooses to ignore them or speak out about them in utter ignorance.

    In other words, he chooses his desired outcomes and then cherry picks the facts that seem to back his points up. But the level of intelligence on this board is so high that people see right through what he does and don't really feel the need to continue reporting him.

    Instead just sit back and have a nightcap. You're in the right most likely because "Joe Pike" or Gunther or whoever he is almost always wrong. :)
     
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  17. Joe Pike

    Joe Pike Banned

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    Yeah, the "really decent Graf fans" ... :):):)


    Son, Monica "really decent Graf" STILL has no Wimbledon crown ...
     
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  18. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    back to topic, Austin´s game was made for clean bouncing courts like hard or supreme.She was to stiff to be flexible enough on clay, much less grass.people used to say she clowned Chris Evert, but she never had the versatility nor the game´s knowledge of the Floridian.
     
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  19. Joe Pike

    Joe Pike Banned

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    And what did Chris say about that?
    Austin making fun of her?
     
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  20. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    I don´t catch you.What is the issue between them ?
     
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  21. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    probably didn´t use the right words.Not that Austin was making Evert a clown, but she was seen as a clon, that is an exact copy of Evert.Sorry for that
     
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  22. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    We never do hear what happened to Gunther Parche. I suspect Joe Pike is Gunther Parche until it is proven otherwise.
     
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  23. Joe Pike

    Joe Pike Banned

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    Ah, a clone!

    Well, we both are no native English speakers, so never mind!
     
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  24. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Thanks for correction.

    I read somewhere she was engaged to a german car driver, Bartels? what happened...too much pressure from the press?
     
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  25. Joe Pike

    Joe Pike Banned

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    No, Steffi was never engaged before.
    Where did you read this BS?
     
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  26. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    In some journalist blog.She also had a tennis boyfriend: Alex Mronz, this guy even beat Sampras once¡¡
     
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  27. Joe Pike

    Joe Pike Banned

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    Steffi connaisseurs know that she had two boyfriends before Agassi - a certain Ken Nahoum (photographer of her Barilla ads) around 1990-92 and Bartels after that.
    I think Mronz was the poor guy of whom Steffi' dad (what a jerk!) said, "I pay him so that people won't say Steffi is also a lesbian!"

    All of these men were rather good-looking, BTW. Later in life Steffi fell for the more cute type - Andre Agassi. That was Steffi's advantage: She could choose freely among the whole male population of this planet ... :):)
     
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  28. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    I love that quote from Graf´s father, it is really funny¡¡¡

    But, if he wanted to prevent bad tongues, she should have ordered her daughter not to play any more doubles with Gabriela Sabatini...
     
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  29. Joe Pike

    Joe Pike Banned

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    Ahh, Sabatini - maybe even more beautiful and sexy than Steffi!
    They dont make girls like them anymore ...
     
    #79
  30. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Well, she had big shoulders, ain´t it? of Graf´s peers, I´d also point out Mary Jo Fernandez,Mary Pierce and later, of course, Martina Hingis and Anna Kournikova.

    I always found pretty sexy Hana Mandlikova, specially since she changed her haircut.Other beauties of the early 80´s: Cawley and Bettina Bunge, one of the hottest chicks that played the game...ah¡¡ and that hungarian lass called Andrea Temesvari and the canadian Carling Basset and the mexican Angelica Gavaldon...yes, excepting 2-3 russians, today they don´t make girls as pretty
     
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  31. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    Maybe you took some English courses in the interim so you could upgrade from psycho Seles real life stalker to Graf internet stalker (if that is even an upgrade).
     
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  32. Joe Pike

    Joe Pike Banned

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    Parche never was a Seles stalker, you jester!
     
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