Wayne Bryan must be reading this forum.....

Discussion in 'Junior League & Tournament Talk' started by dbordel, Jan 16, 2012.

  1. dbordel

    dbordel New User

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    #1
  2. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Remember that ATP doubles would have been eliminated without the lawsuit brought by the Bryans.

    For a guy who seems so eloquently free enterprise, he was 100% behind the doubles agitation. The lawsuit had implied that appearance fees would be probed in the discovery process, and that is why a compromise was made. Under a free enterprise, tournaments should eliminate doubles as they are unprofitable. Then no livelihood for the twins and their loud-mouthed father.

    Also, I see no connection between administrators children succeeding and what they are doing. That is like saying that Einstein has no business in Physics because his children did not win Nobels. Shows very poor reasoning ability from Wayne Bryan. Just because his children were twins and one lefty and one righty and tall at that, they came to the top (they were failed singles pros, BTW). So Wayne produced failed singles pros whose careers would have been lost under a free enterprise. But then he decided to ride on their success and stick his head everywhere.
     
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  3. Jonny S&V

    Jonny S&V Hall of Fame

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    18,755 posts and still trollin'...
     
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  4. Tennishacker

    Tennishacker Professional

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    I agree 100%

    USTA is a massive, bloated organization that needs major change.
     
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  5. ollinger

    ollinger Legend

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    More is less. A letter the length of a short story has no impact. It also becomes nearly impossible to offer a rebuttal.
     
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  6. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    Excellent job by Wayne. You can tell he just boiled over and laid it all out. A lot to read but so far I agree on about 85% of his points.

    ProTour.....you made me chuckle with your profile. I am like Favre in respect to retirements!
     
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  7. Pro_Tour_630

    Pro_Tour_630 Legend

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    Nice to see you back anything to bring you back :)
     
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  8. Pro_Tour_630

    Pro_Tour_630 Legend

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    I spoke with coach Bryan about this and told him all my thoughts regarding green, will let you know what he told me later.
     
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  9. TennisFan2Day

    TennisFan2Day Rookie

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    It's a great read, but unfortunately the USTA will never listen.
     
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  10. ClarkC

    ClarkC Hall of Fame

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    Point #1 by Wayne Bryan is huge, and we really have only touched on it occasionally while we focused our arguments on other aspects of QuickStart, like the mandates, one size fits all, kids caught in transition, etc.

    If you want to reach out to kids and grow the sport, the whole effort should have been "8 and under tennis" at the latest, not "10 and under tennis."

    With a 10 and under tennis outreach effort, you might scoop up the rejects from other sports, the kids who never developed any skill and/or passion for soccer, baseball, basketball, etc. The kids whose parents start to get worried at age 9 that other kids are involved in sports, while their kid is a couch potato. This is not the demographic of the future tennis champion who rescues public interest in American tennis.
     
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  11. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    I look forward to hearing what he said. I love the Wilson Green Dots for my 7 year old to rally with.
     
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  12. chalkflewup

    chalkflewup Hall of Fame

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    And Wayne echoed my sentiments with respect to foreigners and college tennis ;)
     
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  13. dbordel

    dbordel New User

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    Yeah, he was all over the map. I posted the link because he talks about alot of the subjects that are talked about here.
     
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  14. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

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    Maybe these kids wouldn't be champions, but we are probably doing a greater good getting these kids involved in tennis and giving them a sport they can play their entire life than trying to steal away athletic kids from soccer, baseball, and basketball.
    If enough kids start playing tennis, some will be champions no matter what the USTA does.
     
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  15. chalkflewup

    chalkflewup Hall of Fame

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    Wayne makes some valid points. I believe the USTA would agree with some of his comments and disagree with others.
     
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  16. Number1Coach

    Number1Coach Banned

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    I have allready pointed that P,Mac said in the videos about The High Performence center he does not like using the term "building champions" , so if that is the thinking of the top dog what do you think all the puppies under him will say and think ?
     
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  17. chalkflewup

    chalkflewup Hall of Fame

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    As I mentioned previously, Wayne made a few good points and if something positive for tennis comes out of his rant, that's fantastic.

    Wayne needs to understand that ad campaigns aren't intended to build champions. They are aimed at introducing the sport to kids. I know TCF was a proponent of marketing the game via SpongeBob or someone like that and that makes sense (not true in Wayne's World). Instead, he wants us all to go plant trees in our backyard and ask the kid next door to play tennis. Go ask Jimmy the baseball player if he wants to play tennis today. Ask uncle Wayne if he can buy you a racquet. Wayne wants more doubles. More mixed doubles. More team tennis. More support for HS tennis. More trips to college matches. More trips to pro matches. Junior web sites with pictures. All that's fine and dandy but that's not a real plan. You gotta have a plan. Just sayin'
     
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  18. ga tennis

    ga tennis Hall of Fame

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    I agree with Wayne! We have a top notch div2 college tennis team here in my home town.All players in the top 6 are from other countries except one.The A.D. puts no pressure on the coach to win.It really drives me crazy that the coach recruits almost no Americans.If I had the job I would only recruit players from Georgia and try to help develop their games.Why give all that money to foreign kids when there are so many good players in Georgia.I think most all div 2 coaches ive met are clueless about strokes and player development.Anyone can recruit!!!!
     
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  19. chalkflewup

    chalkflewup Hall of Fame

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    Agreed on that point too GA. It's way out of control. I'm not just talking about scholarship positions, I'm talking about non-scholarship slots too that are depriving Americans of the college tennis experience. It's a big number. I believe this is an NCAA problem and outside the control of the USTA.
     
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  20. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    I agree chalk, I think Wayne is wrong on ad campaigns and how effective a properly designed one could be.
     
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  21. Number1Coach

    Number1Coach Banned

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    Ga the ad campainge is gonna be a waiste of money when the top dog says in the HP videos he doesn't like the term "building champions " ,so what are all our young 8yr olds gonna be taught to compete for the Championship ?
     
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  22. jigglypuff

    jigglypuff Rookie

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    What is he supposed to say? Drop everything and go for broke? The reality is that most people are not striving to become a professional. Tennis is just another activity outside school for the masses and that's what he is catering to. I don't think his main mission is to find the next champion, but simply to increase USTA enrollment/membership yearly during his tenure. It's easier for him to quantify his performance that way.
     
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  23. chalkflewup

    chalkflewup Hall of Fame

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    That's not the intent of the campaign.
     
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  24. HIGH-TECH TENNIS

    HIGH-TECH TENNIS Rookie

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    AWESOME LETTER!!! Soo helpful that someone is finally SPEAKING OUT on behalf of junior tennis players!

    Haven't digested even half of all that's here but we've been hearing this stuff non-stop over the past seven years as we travel to 25+ junior tournaments per year in the Southern Section.

    HATS OFF to WayneB for having the courage to use his voice!
     
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  25. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    Because the vast majority are not going to invest tons of money, sacrifice proms and social life, work kids 25 hours a week...for the .001% chance that their kid might be a money making pro tennis player. So such an ad campaign would not click with any but guys like you and I who are just nuts enough to try it.
     
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  26. Number1Coach

    Number1Coach Banned

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    First off where did I say go pro? Being taught to strive to be the best does not mean pro, the kids from other countrys are taught America is a land where your dreams come true therefore they are pushed to be the best. Now as they are taking food out of our kids mouths we sit back and never think of pushing our kids to be Champions and look what we have .
     
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  27. Number1Coach

    Number1Coach Banned

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    TCF if I was to work with your daughter the first thing I would teach her is how to spell the word FUN she would know its spelled W-I-N by the time she left, I would put in her head everyone on the other side of the net is to be destroyed , they are there to lose, in doing this I would teach her that competing is a mind set that must be switch once she steps on the court and it will bring her a lot of benefits in life. In other words teach her to be a champion .
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2012
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  28. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    No problem there. Whether we play green dot rallies, soccer, or race to the mail box....she needs to not only win but win big. We play first to 3 point games and winning 3-1 is not good enough, she wants 3-0.

    But in every day things she is very polite and chilled, helping other kids, very empathetic to others. Somehow I lucked out....I am an SOB on and off the court but she can turn her monster on and off!
     
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  29. Number1Coach

    Number1Coach Banned

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    This should be what the USTA should be pounding into all those who play , obviously at different degrees depending on the goal Rec vs College/pro. If Mac starts his high performence video about the Boca site as a place for a coaching insite vs your here to become a champion, good luck.
     
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  30. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    He has written a book about how to raise champions. That is all great, but the simple fact is that he had the raw material to work with - two tall well-built boys with an ideal lefty-righty combination. He himself was a football player, and his wife a top 20 tennis player. Even then the Bryans could not make it professionally in singles. There is no comparison with the coaches in USTA or private academies who work with a large number of children who may or may not have the genetics, and whose main job is to coach children for high school and college teams, not produce pros. Once people become successful for whatever reason, they seem to think they have some knowledge which they can wave in front of others and point out how they are superior.
     
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  31. Tennishacker

    Tennishacker Professional

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    Yes, maybe they lucked out with the boys, but the knowledge that they gained with the process is priceless to you, me or other tennis parents.
     
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  32. Dadof10s

    Dadof10s Banned

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    So true I loved his book.
     
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  33. HIGH-TECH TENNIS

    HIGH-TECH TENNIS Rookie

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    "You have to see it before you can dream it and you must be passionate about it before you can achieve it." Danny attended a workshop at least 5 years ago & was so impressed when he heard Wayne Bryan make this statement that he repeated it to me when he got home & we've referred to it repeatedly ever since.

    If you haven't read his letter to the USTA, please do. I don't have any experience with college tennis players so I can't say how I feel about that (except it sounds like we agree entirely) but I do have loads of experience with junior players and whether you agree him is up to you: HE IS USING HIS VOICE TO EXPRESS THINGS WE HAVE HEARD PRACTICALLY EVERY WEEK SINCE WE BEGAN THIS JOURNEY INTO JUNIOR TENNIS.

    Please take the time to read his letter (which is more like a rant - that's what happens when you're passionate and beyond frustrated).
     
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  34. seminoleG

    seminoleG Semi-Pro

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    I have read his letter and honestly I teared up with joy to know we are not alone in this. I have seen a lot in my life but have little answers for what is going on in Junior Tennis.

    I have a Gap kid (Yellow Ball, 10U) and were caught in a system that I just feel is tugging against us. I won't regurgitate it, but we will do what we can.

    I would like to add we were in Napes Fl, this holiday weekend for a Travel Soccer tournament. The USTA likes to compare 10U, and it's program to Soccer. Have they been to a travel soccer tournament? These kids may be playing with smaller balls, nets, and fields but it is in no way like, red, orange, green ball tennis. Their skill level for Junior Soccer resembles what 10U tennis used to be. 10U tennis now resembles REC Soccer. One team from Atlanta had girls that were fast, strong and skilled. To compare their play to 10U tennis is a joke.
     
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  35. BigboyDan

    BigboyDan Semi-Pro

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  36. HIGH-TECH TENNIS

    HIGH-TECH TENNIS Rookie

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    I have read his letter and honestly I teared up with joy to know we are not alone in this. I have seen a lot in my life but have little answers for what is going on in Junior Tennis.

    SeminoleG, I can promise you that you are NOT alone. What you feel is so much more common than you probably realize...That's why I'm SOOOOO glad Wayne Bryan is using his voice to SPEAKING OUT on behalf of junior tennis players.

    I only wish it weren't such a long letter - but then again, I know there is so much to be said and if it reads like a rant, so be it. This is what happens when you feel so passionate about something you feel is wrong on so many levels and then you realize you are completely powerless to make any changes.

    Again, please take the time to read his letter. You may not agree with every point but he certainly has the right to his opinion..and I, for one, am SOOO glad that he took the time to share it so people would know they are not alone.
     
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  37. coaching32yrs

    coaching32yrs Semi-Pro

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    I know for a fact that the top American pro players agree with Wayne Bryan. They think the PD program is a joke, they have not developed anyone, and they are only interested in protecting their huge salaries. The reason they don't speak out is they know how vindictive the usta is. Donald Young spoke out and they tried to crush him. In what organization in the history of the world would you publish a highly critical letter to a 19 year old future possible top performer as the USTA. did with Young.
     
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  38. chalkflewup

    chalkflewup Hall of Fame

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    Personally, I don't care if our top American pro players agree with Wayne Bryan or not. Wayne was all over the place in his letter. And while he makes some valid points, he's off target in others.

    The USTA could have and should have publicly crushed Donald Young after his infamous F-bomb tweet and they did not. Why the tweet from Donald? Because USTA did not give him a wild card for once. USTA has done loads for this kid. Young even recently reached out to the USTA for coaching. In my opinion, the Young's have made a few questionable moves along the way.
     
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  39. coaching32yrs

    coaching32yrs Semi-Pro

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    This was way before that. DY did not want to go along with the USTA HP program for good reason. They have a history of failure and screwing up players. So PM and JH wrote him a personal rebuke in very strong language, which is fine. Then they published it in their magazine. In what universe, under what moral or ethical code, in what good management practice, is that ever appropriate? BTW does anyone know what PM's salary is as head of PD. By Wayne's letter I take it to be 500-750k annually- which I believe. Tell me in what CEO position at that salary can you take 3 weeks off to go on TV and to do some announcing work? It's outrageous. Let's focus on the USTA PD and hear what others on this forum have to say. I would be interested to know what PM's salary actually is.
     
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  40. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    Wayne Bryan is spot on. The USTA, like the Federal Government, is a monolith with a one-size fits all solution. Don't do what's right for tennis, do what a) keeps administration in their high paid positions and b) what keeps the $'s rolling in. With regard to the NCAA, collegiate tennis has become a sham, much like soccer in this country. Folks who do not pay taxes should not benefit from scholarships. For Pete's sake, I am a natural born citizen, but if I wanted to send my daughter to an out-of-state college, I'd have to pay the double the tuition. Other than the big 3, basketball, football and baseball, college athletics are a drain on every institution and restrictions should be put on their recruitment. (And just to be perfectly clear, baseball at most institutions is a losing proposition.)

    With regard to a couple of previous posts about the Bryan twins being failed singles players, this is not 100% accurate. Bob Bryan was a competent singles player with the potential to be a successful journeyman. He has multiple futures wins and played competitive matches against the likes of Pat Rafter, Marcelo Rios, Kevin Kim, and others. It is my understanding that Bob quit singles to concentrate on doubles. From a strictly business standpoint, including endorsements and prize money, this was a no-brainer. He is making more money by playing doubles than singles.

    The same two posts used the term "failed". Nothing could be further from the truth. Both players are wildly successful and demonstrate much of what should be right with tennis by their charity work and exos with youth as mentioned in Wayne's letter. And to be quite honest, $8.5M in prize money alone and counting isn't exactly what I'd term a failure.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2012
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  41. HIGH-TECH TENNIS

    HIGH-TECH TENNIS Rookie

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    As far as I can tell, it's shoot the messenger or concentrate on the message. As far as I'm concerned, I could kiss Wayne Bryan ON THE LIPS to thank him for using his voice to step UP for junior tennis and having the courage to say OUT LOUD what we in the trenches hear CONSTANTLY. I've referred many, many, many people to his letter and will continue to do so. Tennis is a GAME, not rocket science, and junior players are CHILDREN, not mini-professionals. Junior tennis is a journey, not a destination...You might as well ENJOY IT!!!
     
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  42. chalkflewup

    chalkflewup Hall of Fame

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    A successful journeyman? That sounds like an oxymoron!

    No doubt about it, the Bryan's are great ambassadors for the sport. As doubles players they have had tremendous success, however; IMPO neither player would've made it singles. Playing a few competitive matches against the likes of Kevin Kim ain't gonna bring home the bacon.

    Bob Bryan Singles Record
    1998: 2-4
    1999: 2-5
    2000: 4-7
    2001: 4-11
    2002: 1-3
    2003: 4-5
    2004: 0-1
    2005: 1-0
     
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  43. Pro_Tour_630

    Pro_Tour_630 Legend

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    I have much more to say but I do not have time to write more maybe later

    The USTA is trying to build a bridge across the whole river. It takes time to build a bridge over several years of planning executing etc.. It seems Coach Brayan wants results in one year. He wants kids to play with yellow balls at age 6. This is possible if the coach has proper training but most coaches do not have the training to teach 6 year olds the progressions on mini tennis using yellow balls. He went one to say that Champions are not made by slick ads it is grown from main street local parents. Well that is what the USTA is trying to do. Local parents will have easier tools with these colored balls to each their kids. He wants us to plant trees and grow the game. With these new balls you are getting more kids and parents involved. The USTA has done research and was modeled after the play and stay program which has been in Europe since 2005 which has a proven record. If the Japanese. Koreans and germans are producing great cars it is wise to look at their model and see what has been so successful and the US auto market have been doing just that recently. Most 10’ ‘s dink the ball The 10’s were not created for the elite few, they were created for the majority of kids. With the new 10 and under rule they are hoping to get kids more passionate about the sport with and early success. Players have always been playing up since the age of time. Sampras always played up and did not dominate his age group? Also there is no reason to play up since many of the 10 year old kids who do not want to play 10 and under are playing 12’s so the level is the same only now it is called U12. If they are still not comfortable with regulation there are always U12 using green. Again most of them are low level 12 year olds or average 10 year olds.

    Coach Wayne has outdated material saying that all U10 are mandated using green. They are mandated using orange. Green can be played at the U12 level. He wants a dual approach where U10 is played with regulation as well. Well the USTA can not make everyone happy. They are not in the business to make everyone happy. They want to grow the game and make it fun for everyone. They do not want kids under 10 playing with Regulation balls in tournaments period. And I am full agreement to this rule only I would prefer they included green in the U10’s. There has been large # of participation level using these colored balls and it has only been one month. So I suggest that coach bryan give the rule some time to take into affect before casting judgment on a system that has not bloomed.

    The data shows that ATP and WTA players have grown up using softer balls. Heck his own sons have played/trained with old yellow balls ( same as green) and yellow balls that have been punctured using a nail by Mr Bryan so why not use the same ball you practice with in competition? Is that a crime? To use the same balls that you practice with in competition? As for the bribes, the only bribes I have seen is the resurfacing some of the courts using QS lines to be able to get a grant. The USTA is giving the grant they can set any qualification they see fit. It is their money.

    One does not have to keep kids on orange until 11, kids can go through this suppose mandate as quick as they want. If the kid is an elite player at 9 sure heck he can handle regulation with low level U12 players. The green ball tournaments have not been small in many areas across this nation. Again it has only been a month. I suggest coach Bryan to have a little more patience.
     
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  44. Pro_Tour_630

    Pro_Tour_630 Legend

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    When I spoke to Wayne Bryan about this he was not that critical and was in support of QS. He wants a dual approach which is ironic and contradictory. You can not go to a doctor and have him say you need brain surgery and lets operate on your feet as well:confused:

    We can not have U10 kids playing regulation with ranking ( pressure) and have a parallel system with kids just having fun with no ranking and multiple winners. Those two are totally opposite.
     
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  45. seminoleG

    seminoleG Semi-Pro

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    No you can have a Competitive Path, and a Developmental Path.
    Competitive Path can be seperated by age, Developmental Path by ability.

    The Paths cross and meet at various Ages/Abilities.

    Example High School sports vs. AAU/Babe Ruth League competition. Same ages and varying skill levels both produce Top performers.
     
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  46. TennisMaverick

    TennisMaverick Banned

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    Exactly what should be done. I predict that it will happen institutionally in the near future.
     
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  47. Pro_Tour_630

    Pro_Tour_630 Legend

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    We do not have little league and full pitch using wood bats only at the same time, we don't have U10 kid playing soccer with full size ball on full size feild at the same time using smaller ball and smaller feild, sorry

    If you want competition using regulation at U10 form your own group, the USTA and play and stay ( the rest of the world ) are not going for it. If Spain had $ and were organized they would do the same, apparently they don't
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2012
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  48. Tcbtennis

    Tcbtennis Professional

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    Yes you can. In Florida in 2011 we had U10 rookie tournaments that were quickstart and and at the same time all other higher level U10 were regulation yellow ball/racquet length/court size. It was not confusing. It just made parents upset because they knew that in 2012 this option of regulation U10 would be gone because of the mandate. Most of the parents who are upset do not dislike QS. Most believe that if done correctly it can be great for the development of young children (ages 8 and under). But to mandate that all U10 be QS is just too much.

    With all the recent changes I have come to believe that the USTA has it's hidden agenda and it's not to reduce travel or limit the number of missed school days. They are under the gun to produce the next American champion and it will try any idea to see if anything works. Limit draw sizes, increase wild cards, if any junior shows promise latch onto him/her and proclaim your greatness.

    The USTA is the governing body of American tennis. It is a highly profitable monolith. What it says, goes. If you don't like it, too bad. Hopefully, after a few years it will see the errors of it's ways. But unfortunately a good number of juniors will have been screwed in the meantime.
     
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  49. ga tennis

    ga tennis Hall of Fame

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    GREAT POST!!!!!!!!
     
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  50. Pro_Tour_630

    Pro_Tour_630 Legend

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    I believe it was a transition, a temporary transition and a transition is to make some folks happy, they can not make everyone happy. The only folks that are unhappy are the elitist parents that want to see Jr getting to #1 in U10, sorry it is not going to happen anymore. There are going to be no ranking in U10 anymore, bye bye good riddance.

    The idea is not just any idea, it was a proven idea called play and stay in Europe since 2005. I could care less about producing champions right now, I want to grow the game, and by growing the game we might have something in 5-10 years. The next idea is to give $ to centers/coaches to teach the proper way and combine it with the teaching ways of mini tennis.
     
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