We can and should be attacking the net a LOT more as rec players

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by Power Player, Mar 3, 2014.

  1. mawashi

    mawashi Hall of Fame

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    That's true however, there must be a thought pattern rather then just rushing cus when I'm at the net my mind goes blank like a deer caught in the headlights.

    It's like I'm here... now what? My game isn't just bashing and I rely a lot on changing direction of shots so the idea of getting to the net without working out a strategy is difficult.
     
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  2. bt johnson

    bt johnson Rookie

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    Volleys are easy, super easy. People just make things too complicated sometimes. If you volley with your legs, keep your racquet out in front and watch your contact point then you won't miss your volleys. People try and use their eyes to dictate where the volleys go.

    Most people think they drive a car with their eyes too. You steer with your hands, not your eyes. Volleying is the same principle.
     
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  3. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    That's because the bulk of today's tennis player are either self-taught, taught by tennis-on-TV, or they're too arrogant to take lessons. I think it's seriously hard to execute sound net play if you haven't been taught the proper technique on volleys.

    Not that I'm calling anyone out here, but a LOT of people live and breathe by the pros and how they play. For the past decade or so, tennis on TV has been dominated by baseline plays, and they also see what happens when these pros go up to the net: that is, they are likely to lose the point. We all know baseline bashing is a whole lot easier than net play.

    BUT! We are not pros, we don't come close to a fraction of the pros' pace, precision, and angle. So, for those of us who are remotely comfortable at the net, OWN IT! Because we're not dealing with those passing shots all the time. Some of you guys said that the constant net rushing creates pressure on your opponent, that is so true and I am so glad that it's been brought up.

    Another thing I want to point out is that, you may not even have to hit a great volley to win a point. Because the ball goes back to your opponent so much faster, most people don't have the sound footwork and balance to quickly reload and hit another shot, let alone pass you if given a 2nd chance.

    Last thing, who here likes to forces their opponent up to the net? It's awesome to see your opponent s*** bricks if s/he is forced up to the net and can't handle a volley. :twisted:

    Great thread.
     
    #53
  4. GuyClinch

    GuyClinch Hall of Fame

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    True. But you are looking at the wrong half of the equation. You have to hit an approach or half volley to get to the net. And then you have to hit an overhead (likely against lower level players) or a tough volley to win the point (against higher level players).

    Yes going to the net gives you more winners - but you make more errors. This holds true even at the pro level. Dent was one of the few guys who would really win a lot of points with winners.
     
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  5. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    ... I assumed people realized that, to get to the net, you'd have to hit a decent approach shot and/or pick up a half volley on your way to the net.

    Also, I was just backing up the claims of applying pressure on the opponent.
     
    #55
  6. rosewall4ever

    rosewall4ever Semi-Pro

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    Blasting them off from the baseline shouldn't a tactic either. The consensus as i have been told and followed has always been to unbalance them in the baseline, attack midcourt/service line, then finish/end the point with a deep/ short angle at the net - that has always been th premise in tennis
     
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  7. boramiNYC

    boramiNYC Hall of Fame

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    OP has a point. Coming to the net is a more efficient way of playing tennis. And in physical standpoint makes you move in more variety of ways which could be healthier and less injury prone. It's not an easy skill to master coming to the net but it just is a better tennis to strive for.
     
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  8. Sir Shankalot

    Sir Shankalot Rookie

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    Nice thread.

    I have always made a point of spending at least 15 minutes every practice session doing volleys and overheads, so I am comfortable at the net. However, in real points my net game has been pretty ineffective.

    Very recently I had an "aha moment" as to why this is so: put simply, I am fine once I am at the net but getting there is a problem. The issue has been poor footwork on approach shots (either running through them or stopping altogether) and then lack of decisive movement after the approach shot to get to the net quickly.

    So I'm now working on this with a targeted drill, with my hitting partner feeding from a basket on the other side of the court.

    Shot 1: Partner feeds me a regular rally ball, I reply with an aggressive groundstroke to his backhand corner.
    Shot 2: Partner feeds a weak short ball, little or no spin, which lands somewhere in either service box. I move in and hit an approach shot down the line, either slice (if BH side) or topspin (if FH). Follow up with an instant charge to the net, following my own shot.
    Shot 3: Partner feeds me another ball (anywhere) which I have to volley.
    Shot 4: Partner feeds me either another regular ball or a lob, so either I have to volley or hit an overhead.

    Style note: part of the drill is that I have to split step before every single shot... this is a particular problem on the approach shot for some reason.

    Early days yet (I have only been at this for a week) but I feel that practising this drill has a lot of potential to help with the transition game.
     
    #58
  9. GuyClinch

    GuyClinch Hall of Fame

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    As the skill level of your opponent improves - so does the difficulty involved in those shots - until it becomes a non-factor at the pro level. Even big tall pros like Del Potro battle from the baseline.

    I am not saying its not a winning tactic for anyone. I am saying the folks who aren't doing it - know they shouldn't, know why and are usually right. There isn't this large population of players playing dumb tennis. (especially in the higher levels like the poster indicates). Most people know their game and know what works.

    You might find some guy who is really bad at countering aggressive net play - and change your tactics to beat him - that's cool. But you can't generalize from that..
     
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  10. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    Like everything else in tennis I think it depends on how often you see a type of shot or try a certain stroke.

    Volleys are easy but effective volleys under pressure demand practice, experience, focus, and discipline. Factors include keeping the racquet up (too many rec players drop their frame's head at net) and volleying instead of hitting a half-a*s ground stroke (which is very common among male rec players).

    Rather than "easy" I'd call them "simple" but even simple tennis techniques are difficult without proper training, practice, and experience.

    To the OP's point I think we rec players focus too much on baseline play whether during practice or match play. When hitting casually rec players will spend an hour hitting rallies but rarely will one player remain at net for a sustained period of time while his partner feeds a constant stream of volleys to him. The reason: rec players have a tough time controlling their volleys and ground strokes. So, in the absence of a huge basket of balls, the guy feeding the shots frequently miss-feeds high or wide while the guy at net volleys away from the feeder instead of back to him.

    During a casual baseline rally both players can usually chase down poorly aimed shots* but while exchanging volleys that's impossible so too much time is spent retrieving errant balls.

    *One of the most amusing things heard on court is when two rec players are trying to sustain a rally and one hits wide and deep but still in...the other player exclaims, "Nice shot!" ignoring the fact that the player was trying to hit the ball to him. It was actually a terrible shot lacking in control.
     
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  11. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    What are you talking about? I clearly said that this thread was focused on REC tennis multiple times and not higher levels. I definitely did not indicate anyone was playing dumb tennis at all. Simply said we should be attacking the net more often and put my case out there for why.

    This has nothing to do with high level players like Del Potro - absolutely nothing.
     
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  12. spun_out

    spun_out Rookie

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    I agree with Power Player that attacking the net is a great strategy at lower levels, but I think that many of the posts in this thread suggest why many choose not to do so. What I mean is that people still have an idea that going to net is a high risk, high reward play. I think that at rec level, a good strategy is more important than in the pros because a rec players have many weaknesses. In this sense, it is much easier to achieve the 'ultimate' goal in tennis: to hit easy shots to make your opponent hit difficult shots.

    In terms of attacking the net, I think players put too much emphasis in a good approach shot and good volleys. These are not easy shots so strategically speaking, they aren't good. A good approach shot (difficult), replied with a lob (easy), to be finished with an overhead (depends) isn't really a winning strategy. In fact, many players miss the approach shot trying to get to net. I'm not including Power Player in this group because he is using a relatively easy shot (inside out forehand) to get to the opponent's weakness (backhand), but the strategy would be even better at lower levels by moonballing with little pace and spin to the opponent's backhand and coming into net. This achieves multiple strategic advantages: 1) easy shot to hit 2) more time to get into net (less chance of having to hit a half-volley) 3) the opponent has to create all the pace, which is very difficult to do at lower levels, especially on the backhand side (and especially if it is 2hbh) 4) the opponent has time to think, which is never good at the rec level 5) if the opponent hits a lob (easy shot), at least, it will be hard to get to your backhand side.

    In hitting this approach shot, it is easier if the shot you are returning isn't too deep as it becomes harder to get the ball back down the shorter the ball is. For a shallow ball, it might be better to dink a slice to the backhand and come in.
     
    #62
  13. mightyrick

    mightyrick Hall of Fame

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    The problem is, to approach the net, you need a lot more technical skills as a tennis player. That is why it isn't done at lower recreational levels. To have an effective net game, you need the following:

    • Good approach shot
    • Good overhead
    • Good forehand and backhand volleys

    If you are wanting to serve and volley, then you can add on a good serve.

    So we're definitely out of NTRP 3.5 level now. For most, we're out of 4.0 and into 4.5 level now. Oh, and by the way... once you hit 4.0... people start to have fairly decent passing shots. So your approach shots need to be even better.

    I'm not saying C&C/S&V can't be effective, but it takes a lot of time and practice to acquire the necessary skill to carry it out.
     
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  14. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    I addressed pretty much all of this already when I said this was mainly focused on 4-5.0 tennis.

    Secondly, everyone thinks that people are so good at passing at 4.0 4.5, and most really are not. It's a tough shot. It's low %, since it needs to be DTL many times and everyone who assumes a deep lob is so easy to hit probably don't play tennis that much. Its not that easy to hit a good lob that gets over someone standing right inside the service box when you are the run. If you just use simple logic, you are playing the %s, and they will be in your favor.

    Finally, if you are a 4.0. you should be hitting 4.0 level approaches, should have directional control and a semblance of a net game or you are not really even a 4.0 anyway.

    Basically if you don't have a good serve or good approach, or good volley, this thread is probably not for you. I have never played anyone 4.0 or above who does not have at least one of these skills. So this is all about maximizing what you have.

    If you don't have a good volley, work on it. It's not rocket science. It's not impossible, and as stated by others here, is not a super difficult skill to hone. Yes, it still takes work to be good at tennis. There is no magic pill.
     
    #64
  15. hawk eye

    hawk eye Hall of Fame

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    I look for every opportunity to go forward. I have to, because lack of stamina I don't have the shot tolerance to go to 10+ rally's time after time.
    Besides, I think it's more fun to play like that.
    Yes I get passed, but I especially when you sneek in when they don't expect it a lot of attempts are missed when i'm a net because they are rushing it. Plus my volleys/overheads are good enough to deal with then majority of them, at my level (4.0-4.5 ish).

    For all kinds of volleys, I recommend this vid:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJb954_II7c
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2014
    #65
  16. spun_out

    spun_out Rookie

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    I'm not sure if you misunderstood my point or are arguing with my point, but my point is that you don't need good approach shots, volleys, or overheads to attack the net. What I am saying is that if you moonball or even lob to the backhand side (or even forehand side) and approach the net, your opponent will have to execute a difficult shot (shot that require the opponent to generate all the pace). Yes, the opponent can lob, but if you don't squeeze the net too much, then you can either: 1) hit the overhead if it is an easy one 2) let it bounce and restart the point. I think that people will be surprised with the results if you attack with the mentality that the point will be decided either by your opponent's error or winner.
     
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  17. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    This video is killer. Awesome link.
     
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  18. hawk eye

    hawk eye Hall of Fame

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    You're welcome mate.
     
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  19. mightyrick

    mightyrick Hall of Fame

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    IMHO, if you rush the net without creating an opening for yourself and without having any net skills, you're going to get burned. You will end up having to constantly reach for backpeddling overheads that are incredibly difficult and low percentage.

    People who don't have the skills to defend at the net should not be there. It isn't a winning strategy.
     
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  20. Ballinbob

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    Playing against a good 4.0 junkballer today, going to try this out and video it. I'm coming in at every opportunity (No S&V though). I think it will work well, we'll see
     
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  21. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    Develop the skills then. That is the entire point!

    How can you be a decent tennis player with zero net skills? That makes no sense to me.
     
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  22. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    Sweet. That is a great matchup to try this with. Let us know how it goes.
     
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  23. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    One of the first things I do when playing someone new in a competitive match, is rush the net and see if they have a decent passing shot. You have to find this out early, since it will dictate how often you do it the rest of the match.
     
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  24. GoudX

    GoudX Professional

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    Even if you don't approach the net, I would probably hit a moonball to the backhand side back either flat in mid air, or I would move back and rip the shot with heavy spin. Either way, even if I don't try to pass you, you won't be offered an easy volley in that case. The 4.5-5.0 level is a bit high perhaps for this thread, but the fact remains that at intermediate/advanced levels you will get a much easier volley with a low slice approach which forces a slow looped reply, or a pace shot which forces the opponent way off of the court/gives the opponent no time to swing.
     
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  25. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    I don't think 4.5-5.0 is high for this thread at all. At this level you should have a great attacking shot you can punch into the corner and follow to net.
     
    #75
  26. GoudX

    GoudX Professional

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    Unless you play doubles, you only need good enough net skills to defend against an opponent beating you through drop shots. Even then, dictating with groundstrokes and fast enough feet to put away bad drop shots will easily stop an opponent drawing you to the net consistently.

    Of course a good net game is a fantastic weapon to have, but like a huge flat serve you don't NEED to be able to win points consistently at the net to win matches, even on tour.
     
    #76
  27. johndagolfer

    johndagolfer Semi-Pro

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    You make it sound so easy. At lower levels there are so many deficiencies - mainly the backhand, serve and especially the net game.

    While I agree with you that it's easier to be successful at the lower levels IF, and that's a big humongous IF, you are already comfortable at net.

    Instead of developing volleying skills, like you suggest, wouldn't this time be better spent improving the deficiencies that plague all 4.0-5.0 players? I just feel that some people are so uncomfortable with volleying and overheads that it would be easier for them to win if say they practiced their mid-court put away shots more than vollies.
     
    #77
  28. spun_out

    spun_out Rookie

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    The problem with low slice approaches is that it is a more difficult shot and errors can be made in the process of getting to net. In contrast, even if you take the moonball out of the air or rip the shot with heavy spin, note that you are hitting a much more difficult shot than the person attacking the net, especially if you are trying to hit an outright winner. If you aren't going for winners and give the net rusher a difficult shot to put away, it still shouldn't be hard for the net rusher to get the ball back with another paceless shot, forcing you to make a proactive shot. I guess what I am advocating is to become a netrushing pusher.
     
    #78
  29. GoudX

    GoudX Professional

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    I meant in regards to using the tactic of looping a moonball to the backhand and rushing the net. If you have any combination of a huge serve, a biting slice, a killer forehand, or incredible hands you can volley your way to world number one, nevermind 4.5!
     
    #79
  30. Velvet Ga el

    Velvet Ga el Rookie

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    PP you hit it on the head with this thread, and now you're predictably getting lower rated players with grandiose notions of 4.5+ players coming into the thread telling you people are going to be ripping passing shots. It's simply not true, and even if you haven't seen much 4.5 tennis, all you need to do is look at the YouTube videos of 4.5 matches and see few are ripping outright pace from the baseline.

    I'm a 4.5, I played college golf and dated two different female college tennis players at two schools inside the top 25, and I've watched more 4.5+ tennis than I care to admit, and your basic premise is right on point: in terms of court position and finishing aggression, most people play way too cautiously with an anchor on the baseline. The most precious asset someone can have on a tennis court is time to set up for the next shot. Even at 4.5 or 5.0, if you can take that time away and force an opponent to hit off balance or without being set, you're going to raise their error rate and force weak replies.

    At 4.0, coming to the net on an opponent's backhand is still a money play. Most 4.0s can't hit consistent winners off their backhand, and the better players who run around their backhand are conceding a cross court volley winner if you get a frame on it. Even to the forehand side, if you keep a guy behind the baseline when he hits it, you're no worse than neutral in the overwhelming majority of matches.

    At 4.5, guys still aren't blasting their backhands. They're no doubt more consistent with them and they can usually generate good depth by raising the clearance over the net, but only the better 4.5s are flattening the ball out and skimming the net for passing shots with their backhand. Forehand is a different story, but you're not advocating for consistent approaches to the forehand.

    It's a grand myth that you need to hit perfect approaches, perfect volleys, and perfect overheads to come to the net. Instead, your approach shot and first volley need to be no better than the other guy's passing shots. Even if the strokes are equal, you've still taken time away from him or her in the initial exchange. And lobs? Same basic premise. If a guy doesn't have time to set up for a lob, then he's not hitting a good one. And a 4.5 player will win the point far more often than not when the opponent resorts to lobbing.
     
    #80
  31. tennis_ocd

    tennis_ocd Hall of Fame

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    To be sure, anyone able to move 20 ft can attack the net; the problem with most is that we have lessor net skills than at the bl. Skills start at baseline and then move forward. Two young rec guys with "4.0 level forehands" will almost always have "3.5 level OHs and volleys" ... if that. It's only those who love and play doubles that value the OH/volley. Add how relatively easy it is to hit a lob vs. the difficulty in getting back and hitting the OH and it can be a losing strategy *unless worked on* which is the beauty of this thread -- keep a balanced game.

    In general, except at the highest levels of tennis, the lob beats the movement and OH quality required to overcome.
     
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  32. GoudX

    GoudX Professional

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    Netrushing pusher - This is why the good lord invented the heavy topspin lob, the angled pass and the DTL drive. The net rusher can only cover one of these effectively, and when your opponent can hit heavy topspin shots they will be able to hit either very consistently off of poor approaches.

    Off of a good approach you basically prevent the opponent hitting a high/consistent lob and limit their ability to hit fast and accurate passing shots consistently, so you can rely on your opponent missing the pass frequently or feeding easily volleys and smashes. If you feed a slow approach to a decent player they will work out that you can't cover the entire net on a regular basis, and will start beating you more often than they miss by bullying whichever part of the net you are covering least well.
     
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  33. torpantennis

    torpantennis Legend

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    Approaching net at rec level? I wish there were more people doing that. Then I could just pass them all day long, without worrying about making an error in the long rallies. :lol:

    I'm an aggressive grinder by nature, use heavy topspin, and enjoy it when the net rusher creates a clear target for me. It feels rather easy for me to control depth on the short topspin strokes, so that each and every time I hit the first shot it either dips right into the feet of the net rusher or directly pass him. Then the next shot I hit is either a lob or a passing shot, and I win the point. So easy!

    Even though I have great fitness and footwork for my level, I tend to get lazy in the movement if I'm not challenged. So against a player like myself unfortunately, people should not approach net as this brings the best out of myself. Some people do this a couple of times, but then they stop it, start pushing, and then I'm in trouble keeping my concentration on.

    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=493012

    So it all depends on what kind of a player you're playing against.
     
    #83
  34. fuzz nation

    fuzz nation Legend

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    Sorry I missed out on this most interesting topic for a while - I was away.

    VERY MUCH agree with the idea of developing the net skills. The aspect of net play that isn't brought up too often (I don't think?) is that this skill set is something that needs to be almost entirely "pre-loaded" into a player's muscle memory in contrast with hitting at the baseline. From the backcourt, players enjoy the advantage of having a fraction of a second to sometimes think their way through their shots and movements (sometimes, but not all the time).

    At the net, it's a different ball-o-wax that needs to be practiced to such a degree that the move on the ball happens with much less of a mental process. Just a "happy typing fingers" way of saying that deliberate practice will build quicker, stronger reaction volleys. I absolutely agree that these reaction shots are often neglected. Stronger circles of 4.0-5.0 hitters often have a more well rounded game and these players may pay attention to the extra facets that need some upkeep. Not always the case though.
     
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  35. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    I have never seen a 4.5 player with a backhand that they can not hit decently. You can not be a 4.5 and not have a backhand or overhead or decent serve. that is part of the criteria of getting to that level.

    I think some of you guys are getting sidetracked or are thinking volleying is so impossible skill to learn. It just takes practice. It is not that difficult compared to learning a DTL backhand for example. And that is the point - most guys you play will spend their time trying to learn that shot at 4.0, where you could be learning to volley first. A DTL backhand is a 4.5 level shot. A volley is something you can learn to do well as a 3.5 if you put in some work.

    For me, I put my money where my mouth is. Ill be working on my volleys and fixing that aspect of my game because I am a tennis player and want to improve my overall game and not just have a big forehand and nothing else.

    Exactly..yes. Glad some people get this. It just seems obvious to me, but I also have spent the time on the court testing out my theories as well.
     
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  36. spun_out

    spun_out Rookie

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    At lower levels, lobs can always be run down and the point reset, especially if you don't close in at net. And I think that lots of players make errors trying to hit lobs.
     
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  37. spun_out

    spun_out Rookie

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    Yes, if you can hit heavy topspin lob, angled pass, and the dtl drive off of no pace high bouncing balls to your backhand (or hit these balls on the rise), then you are right, but again my point is these are difficult shots. Obviously, if you have an awesome backhand, I don't recommend hitting it there and rushing the net. I guess the bottom line is try it out and if it works against your opponent, great. If not, try something else. What I am saying is if this strategy works against a certain opponent, then it is the most strategically efficient (i.e. hitting easy shots to force difficult shots) way to win.
     
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  38. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    Agre. That is how I see it as well. Im not going to rush net on a guy after hitting to his wheelhouse.

    But the more your program yourself to attack whenever you see your opponent lunging or out of position, the more opportunity you have to win the point. It's just basic tennis, and I think people forget how effective this is in the era of baselining.
     
    #88
  39. fuzz nation

    fuzz nation Legend

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    The general idea of how to effectively approach is such a big fat can-o-worms that it's really tricky to offer a hard and fast plan of what to do and when to do it. I grew up playing serve and volley on grass courts, so the slice has been my friend pretty much forever. I think it's still a very relevant shot, both for baseline defense as well as approaching behind a short ball, but as players get more developed, I think the margins for hitting a "good" approach shot begin to really tighten up.

    Put a moonball in the wrong spot and a strong player may be able to setup early, take it on the rise, and barbecue that thing for lunch. In the right scenario though, I think this shot can really pin an opponent on their heels. I coached a girl with very strong tennis IQ through her entire high school run and one thing she came up with along the way (pretty much on her own) was the defensive moonball. Even when I see her playing a college match these days, she puts this shot to good use here and there, but not so much as a strong approach shot.

    Interesting business - the moonball certainly has some use. I sometimes bring it up with players more in the 3.0-4.0 range when we get into discussing tactics. Use it against a player who can't take the ball on the rise and it can force that opponent to really slam it in reverse. That can produce a free ride to the net. As players evolve into stronger hitters though, I'll usually see them have more success moving forward behind either a low deep slice or a topspin drive that puts the other guy (or girl) on the run.

    An effective approach shot will generally neutralize an opponent as the attacker moves forward. That might mean hitting a moonball that comes down off its bounce well behind the baseline, sliding a slice just inside the baseline by a foot or two (and skids nice and low), or whupping a topspin shot into a nasty angle with some hot sauce on it.
     
    #89
  40. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    Yep, the younger generation just does not play as much up at net. So it is a surprise to them when they are under constant pressure.
     
    #90
  41. 10isfreak

    10isfreak Semi-Pro

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    I believe that people's game must constitute coherent wholes, that their repertoire must make sense within the context of how they play the game. Even before you reach anything like NRTP 4.5, you're in the process of developping an identity on the court. As you play the game and acquire experience, you appropriate attitudes and behaviors which in turn makes lean toward certain skill sets. It won't take very long before you can talk about strengths and weaknesses.

    Instead of fighting people's way of playing, I would argue that you have to inscribe your tips within it -- you have to produce some sort of synthesis, in other words.

    It is fairly possible that some players would obviously benefit from a good down the line backhand. As you know, most amateurs bellow 4.0 can hardly hit a backhand with consistency and authority -- i.e., for most of them, a backhand to backhand rally is simply not an option. In this context, a solid backhand might actually be a better skill than a solid forehand. You do not need an extraordinary forehand to gain ascendence with your backhand; you simply need to be able to hit a very average down the line forehand because most of your opponents won't be able to attack it. And you don't need a huge backhand to pull your opponent off the court because most of these 3.0-3.5 guys are big on their forehands (assuming you're both right-handed). For that guy, even as a 3.5, the down the line backhand is worth the effort.

    Another situation might involve baseline-leaning players. As much as they can learn to take advantage of an in-court game, they might be very much disposed to play from behind the baseline. You can teach them how to volley, but it will be a lot harder to teach them the aggressive attitude of an adept volleyer.


    On the other hand, you do have a point about volleying. Being at the net is advantaging from a geometric standpoint: the angles are easier to get and it doesn't take a spectacular shot to end the point.
     
    #91
  42. 10isfreak

    10isfreak Semi-Pro

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    I'm far less than a stellar net player and, by experience, your observation does seem to stand true. I have seldom met young players -- feels weird to write this down since I'm in my early 20's XD -- who could come up with a neat passing shot once they're under pressure.
     
    #92
  43. 10isfreak

    10isfreak Semi-Pro

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    Attacking might also be done from the back court (from a step or two inside the baseline) by hitting a short ball.
     
    #93
  44. GuyClinch

    GuyClinch Hall of Fame

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    Yes you did indicate they are playing dumb tennis.

    You indicated that 4.0 - 5.0 players aren't attacking enough. This was a strategic mistake for them. Thus they are playing dumb.

    I am saying that ones that don't attack - don't attack for a reason. They aren't dumb.

    You are not looking at the odds. You have to hit high level half volleys, high level volleys, and high level overheads.

    Because if the opponents are really high level they will be able to do more with those shots. As the strength of your opponent increases the better they are at countering these effects. A true 5.0 player is really pretty awesome and can rip net rushers apart unless their approaches are actual weapons.

    This is what the baseline evolution has been about. Ordinary people can now counter approaches because of superior racquet technology and more modern technique.
     
    #94
  45. Fintft

    Fintft Hall of Fame

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    I tend to agree, although I still win 99% from the baseline. It's true that against a great S&V I have to hit lots of clean passing shots and that's against the odds more often then not (i.e. I only managed to do this the first time this Sat, after losing to the same player twice before).

    My main point is that since the vast majority of opponents don't S&V and only a few of them bring you in with short balls, than I'd rather settle for a baseline duel, with the ocasional sneaking in behind a great shot.
     
    #95
  46. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    Ok so ordinary people are able to counter approaches because of their racquets and technique but are not able to make weapons out of their approach shots?

    Does that even make sense to you?
     
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  47. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    10isfreak, I totally get what you are saying. Just to be clear, my point about the DTL backhand being a 4.5 level shot is simply based on the USTA parameters for ranking.

    I know a lot of posters throw around ratings and shot correlation based on opinion so I don't want to do the same.
     
    #97
  48. maggmaster

    maggmaster Hall of Fame

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    I see what Guy is saying, being the attacking player does shoulder extra risk. When it is clicking and you are moving well though, you get to dictate the whole match. It is an awesome feeling and doing it for a few matches to win a tournament is even better. I am not sure if it is the highest percentage play but it is how I play. I think there may be value for others learning to play like this.
     
    #98
  49. Power Player

    Power Player G.O.A.T.

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    I really need to find that serve and volley thread because it addressed a lot of the things people are bringing up. It is a great read.
     
    #99
  50. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    Excellent point GuyClinch...It's not like this is some new idea that a player should come in to net to apply pressure or when he expects a weaker return....Is it? Doesn't every tennis book ever written cover this??

    Come to net more?? More than what? Like you say Guy...the ones who can approach and volley come in now....but the ones who don't likely can't approach or volley so well. :???:
     

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