We have a GOAT - Pancho Gonzales

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by jrs, Mar 16, 2013.

  1. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Dan, In 1962 there were several smaller tours and two big majors...

    Hoad the best in 1958 and 1959? Please explain why he lost both world tours in those years.

    Borotra was only 34 in 1932.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2013
  2. forzamilan90

    forzamilan90 Legend

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    You are so oblivious it's incredible
     
  3. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Forza, Even though I cannot follow Dan when he claims the overall first place for Hoad, he seems right that peak Lew did not have a weakness a la Federer (defensive backhand, medium volley, no plan B).
     
  4. forzamilan90

    forzamilan90 Legend

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    what the hell was Hoad's plan B with all them losses then?
     
  5. Loose Cannon

    Loose Cannon Rookie

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    Is this a shock thread?????


    Clearly we must factor is skill level of competition
     
  6. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    nope, that's incorrect ... that is comparing hoad at his best there to federer's average level

    on an average, federer can be defensive with his BH, be sloppy with his volleys at times and be stubborn

    But I'd say on an average he has a very good BH, good volleys and switches strategies if he is up to it ....

    But when federer is playing very well, his backhand is excellent, his volleys are excellent and can switch strategies at will .... even rafa found it tough on clay on those occasions - rome 2006, hamburg 2007, hamburg 2008, madrid 2009 ....

    oh and federer was/is just as stubborn as many of the great champions before him - one prime example being laver ...
     
  7. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    He is on the GOAT BH list.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2013
  8. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Oh I believe they've understood.
     
  9. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Hoad, like Gonzalez, Rosewall and Laver, could serve and volley or stay on the baseline.
     
  10. jrs

    jrs Professional

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    Interesting discussion. Allow me to recap. Rod Laver & Pancho Gonzales - claim Lew Hoad is the most talented player they played against.

    Further - Rod Laver thinks Hoad vs Federer would an epic match.

    It would be great to take a poll of the players from that era and have them compare todays players with players from that era. I think these people would be the best people to give an opinion on the potential match ups.

    video of Hoad vs Gonzales
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XTR8z5kjWc
     
  11. forzamilan90

    forzamilan90 Legend

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    I take it you think...Rogi can't do none of the above?
     
  12. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Who is Rogi? I don't know him yet.

    Probably I should watch 5oo Federer matches to finally see him play serve and volley (not an occasional volley)...
     
  13. ARFED

    ARFED Semi-Pro

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    Actually, Kenny couldn`t serve at all...
     
  14. ARFED

    ARFED Semi-Pro

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    Perhaps you should rewatch the Wimbledon final of 2012 or his match against Raonic in Madrid 2012 (that is a fine example of what a plan b is)
     
  15. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    ARFED, WHY DO YOU POST IN THIS THREAD (or in any)?????????
     
  16. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    I don't know why but this really amused me...:oops:
     
  17. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    But I know why: Because you join ARFED in his hate. If a poster contributes only HATE he or she should stop to post. There should be a minimum level of intelligence and humanity in a thread. That's all...
     
  18. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    I don't hate you BobbyOne. The frustration from you plus the capitals just amused me.
     
  19. ARFED

    ARFED Semi-Pro

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  20. ARFED

    ARFED Semi-Pro

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    The same reason you do Bobby...(trolling that is)
     
  21. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Argentinian Federer, You could learn a lot from the Argentinian pope...
     
  22. ARFED

    ARFED Semi-Pro

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    Austrian expert, the argentinian pope has a rather doubtful past when it comes to political choices. At least as his predecesor has. It says a lot about the Catholic church and his politics, so nothing to be really proud of (this coming from a fervent catholic). Besides, as far as i know, the new pope hasn`t been blessed by Fed yet...
     
  23. Dan Lobb

    Dan Lobb Hall of Fame

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    I should clarify.
    I have heard from PC1 also on this.
    I heard Laver recently, just this last week or two, analyse Fed and Nadal against each other and against Djokovic.
    I think that it was on a television broadcast, perhaps the Indian Wells broadcast, but I cannot recall which day.
    Laver gave a detailed account of Fed's problems with Nadal, and Nadal's with Djokovic.
     
  24. Dan Lobb

    Dan Lobb Hall of Fame

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    In 1962 there was no world championship tour, the last one being in 1961, then in 1963.

    In 1958 and 1959, there were two world championship tours in each year, one a four-man affair in America, the other a world tournament championship series with bonus points and a bonus money pool.
    Hoad won both tournament championships, the 1958 and 1959.
    The tournament series was discontinued in 1960 when the sponsors, Ampol and Qantas, withdrew from the Kramer tour when Hoad semi-retired.
     
  25. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Did he support Vilas or Clerc? Jaite or Mancini?
     
  26. Phoenix1983

    Phoenix1983 Hall of Fame

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    Nalbandian.
     
  27. Feather

    Feather Hall of Fame

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    I don't even know why people take you seriously, you are a joke.

    Roger Federer beat Pete Sampras playing serve and volley in Wimbledon 2001. He is the only player in recent times to win Wimbledon serve and volleying, Wimbledon 2003.

    I am sure you have not seen any of these matches..

    Lastly, even the king of S & V. Stefan Edberg admitted recently that he would not have been the same player had he been playing in this era. He stressed that he wouldn't be that aggressive.

    I am not surprised that you are totally clueless about the modern game. How slow courts, racket technology and strings have made serve and volley almost redundant..

    Anyway, your posts are source of great amusement for people who actually watch Tennis in this decade
     
  28. ARFED

    ARFED Semi-Pro

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    Actually none of those. He supported Jaime Fillol, so as you can see a really dark past indeed.
     
  29. heninfan99

    heninfan99 Legend

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    Pat Cash wrote about how he's his GOAT on his site/blog. He made a very convincing case.
     
  30. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    ARFED, I cannot contradict this time.
     
  31. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Featherer, pardon, Federer: You mention ONE match and complain that I have not seen THESE MATCHES.

    Henman rather recently played serve and volley and suceeded rather well even though he was not a genius.

    Only biased Federer fans find me to be a joke.....
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2013
  32. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    Technically he mentioned atleast two matches and possibly up to 8. The Wimbledon 4th round match versus Sampras and the 2003 Wimbledon championships (potentially 7 matches) ;). The second round match of Madrid is another example of Federer serve and volleying for much of the match. Federer hadn't played for almost 2 months (?) and his ground game was really off. So he serve and vollyed alot to get past Milos Raonic. He came in alot at Wimbledon too. I think in general when Federer was peaking he was so good off the ground he got a bit lazy and didn't need to attack the net much. It was more him being stubborn than not being able to volley.

    The game has changed even since Henman was playing...
     
  33. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    NatF, Okay, he mentioned 2 matches . But how do you count 8??

    If Federer was a serve and volley player, why did not he try to use it against Nadal in his 19 losing matches and against others??
     
  34. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    Well he said winning Wimbledon 2003, that could either mean winning the final match or the entire tournament. So 2 - 8 matches.

    He's not a serve and volley player, but he can serve and volley. Nadal has perhaps the greatest passing shots of any player ever or atleast of any I've seen. Federer has tried it, slow courts don't benefit serve and volley though. I'm not sure why you think serve and volley would work on Nadal?
     
  35. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    NatF, At least I can say that it could not be worse against Nadal than Federer's rather defensive backhand. By the way, Nadal has a better backhand than the GOAT.
     
  36. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    You think Nadal has a better backhand than Rosewall? Federer's backhand is better than Nadal's and therefore Rosewall's...who knew...
     
  37. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Funny guy, hate diminishes intelligence. Rosewall had a better backhand than Nadal and thus a btter one than Federer. Not even the dumbest Federer fan will confirm the latter...
     
  38. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    Calling me stupid again. Nadal doesn't have a better backhand then Federer either. Atleast offer some evidence. For starters Federer has alot more variety.
     
  39. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    NatF, I did not call you stupid. But generally most posts of Federer fans against me are rather ignorant.

    Nadal's backhand is more offensive than Federer's.

    I hardly can cope with the Bobby insulters (Stupid old man, and so on). There are five to seven Federer fanatics who attack me since weeks. It's not a joy for me to be attacked day after day...
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2013
  40. Feather

    Feather Hall of Fame

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    Game has changed a lot. Henman succeeded playing serve and volley? What has he won serve and volleying? The last time I checked he has not won even a major but he is successful in serve and volley. Henman made three semofinals in Wimbledon when the grass was fast but after the grass was slowed down he made just one sf in SW19. At the same time Federer actually won Wimbledon in 2003 serve and volleying that too on the slow grass. You call Tim Henman a successful S& V but not Federer? So your bias knows no bounds?

    Do you know how disappointed Henman was when Wimbledon changed surface after 2001? He aired his thoughts during SW2002 and said the new surface didn't suit his game at all. lolz

    Federer playing serve and volley and beating the king of fast grass in Wimbledon is not success?

    He played serve and volley in all matches in Wimbledon 2003 and he won it. Tell me the name of one other player after Pete who won a major serve and volleying?

    Get a clue Bobby. Don't parade your ignorance. Roger used to serve and volley. In the masters cup in 2003, he succeeded playing baseline tennis and he realized that he is more successful playing that style and he promptly shifted to that. Roger was always a fan of s & v.

    The surfaces don't suit s& v. They were all slowed down in the earlt 2000s and players can't do that.

    Llodra and Stefanek still do that and you know where they rank
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2013
  41. Feather

    Feather Hall of Fame

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    Clueless as usual, Roger played serve and volley in RG 2008 final against Nadal and the score was 6-3, 6-1,6-0

    Now Nadal has better backhand than Roger? How come you didn't say that in the greatest backhand thread when nadal was not even mentioned? Because you don't have a case to make. All you historians have made a list and Nadal is not there but Federer is there

    Djokovic found success in attacking Nadal's backhand in 2011 and he beat them seven times continuosly. Roger never lost seven times to Nadal continuosly. Yes, these seven losses of Nadal were on all surfaces including clay.

    FYI, Djokovic was never able to attack Roger's backhand that successfully.

    The only player who had success against Roger's backhand was Nadal. Just one player, that's because a right handed single handed backhand cannot take the topspin shots from left forehand of Nadal, a match up issue, which allowed Nadal to win against Federer.

    Put Rosewall against Nadal on clay with modern raquet. Rosewall at 5.7 will not be able to do much against shots that go way above his head. Nadal will murder him.
     
  42. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Yes His speech is focused in losers
     
  43. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Why so? Fillol was a very classy guy
     
  44. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Cash still has a drugs problem
     
  45. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    I'm sorry but in this case you are ignorant. Since his return Nadal has been hitting his backhand harder and deeper, in that sense his backhand has improved. But it's not better than Federer's, hardly fair to compare a few tournaments where Nadal hits his backhand well (almost exclusively cross court IIRC) to your imaginary estimation of Federer's backhand. There are plenty of matches where Federer has been really offensive with his backhand. From the way you talk you give the impression you've seen a select few Federer matches where he wasn't playing all that well or lost etc...

    They don't make highlight reels for Nadal's backhand, they do and have done for Federer's.
     
  46. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    Nadal's has a better backhand than Rosewall? Say it ain't so.? Nah.:wink:
     
  47. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Featherer, The difference is: Henman used to play serve and volley while Federer did it rather seldom.

    Why did Federer have some difficulties in the exos years ago against Sampras: Because he was not accustomed with s/v.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2013
  48. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Featherer, Clueless Bobby tells you that Nadal has a better lifetime percentage (82.95) than GOAT Federer (81.52). How is this possible when Federer has a better serve, a better forehand and a better volley plus, according to some Federer admirers, even a better backhand???

    Regarding percentage of breaking serve, a main criterion to judge the baseline game, GOAT Federer is only fourth (27) behind Nadal (33), Murray (32) and Djokovic (31).

    Federer does have a relative high percentage because he usually stormed to major SFs in a rather weak era. He "only" struggeled against his three main opponents.
     
  49. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    NatF, I can surprise you: I even saw Federer matches where the GOAT won!!!

    Peter Bodo recently critisized Federer's backhand...

    Only Federer highlight reels? Could it be that many people are as much Federer fanatics as you are? And that they are beaten by Roger's nimbus equally if it is justified or not?
     
  50. Feather

    Feather Hall of Fame

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    Either you didn't get my point or you pretend that you didn't get it.

    Firstly, in 2001 Wimbledon against Pete and in 2003 Wimbledon final, he played purely s/v. He did it continuously not seldom. I am sure you have not seen either games. Federer became a baseliner mainly when he realized that he can beat others with his own baseline game as he was very good in that. It happened in 2003 masters cup and since then he started his dominant run.

    You said Tim Henman had more success playing serve and volley. I said he didn't win any major playing s/v while Roger won SW19 playing s/v, so what you said is incorrect.

    Note : I didn't claim that Federer is better than Henman in s/v

    Secondly, you mean to say exhos mean something? You are really silly. There was no way Roger was gonna win all matches. In fact there was one clip in youtube, where Roger played like in a real match, Sampras couldn't get that ball and Roger apologised. Is that how you play matches? Say sorry when you play good shots?

    Roger beat Sampras playing s/v in a Wimbledon match in 2001. He returned Pete's serve pretty well for a youngster and he in fact Pete playing Pete's game. When you have a real match as evidence, you mean to say that exhos troubled him when they were playing laughing and joking. Seriously, you are totally clueless

    Thirdly, I would appreciate if you could call me by my display name. I would say no thanks to your calling me other names other name my display name
     

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