We have a GOAT - Pancho Gonzales

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by jrs, Mar 16, 2013.

  1. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne G.O.A.T.

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    kiki, I doubt this. I did say that Kodes was an excellent player. I mentioned his great QF match at the 1974 Wimbledon against Connors.

    But yes, I also said that Vines was greater.
     
  2. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    No Limpin?
     
  3. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne G.O.A.T.

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    But you omit Rosewall from the discussion Maybe a bit flip-floppy...
     
  4. Phoenix1983

    Phoenix1983 Hall of Fame

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    I don't think you are, and I certainly won't be convinced by you telling me to think of you as such.

    You are TMF but 50 years older, and with Rosewall as your God rather than Federer.
     
  5. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne G.O.A.T.

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    kiki, Caution: For this statement you could be killed by an Argentinian or by some others...
     
  6. Phoenix1983

    Phoenix1983 Hall of Fame

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    I have him at 6th currently and have had him as high as 3rd. This is reasonable for a man with a 0-5 record in Wimbledon finals...
     
  7. W.P. Mayhew

    W.P. Mayhew Semi-Pro

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    Sorry about that, hoodjem! I didn't took it as insulting and was just joking. Unless you're joking too and, uhm... so, uhm... I enjoy your posts and your lists.
     
  8. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne G.O.A.T.

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    Who knows? Every person has the (theoretic) possibility to learn. Even you have learnt history....
     
  9. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    I would certainly not call myself an expert.

    I am merely a student of the history of tennis.
     
  10. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    and how old is TMF?
     
  11. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    I was going to tell you a very popular joke about them, but I rather not...
     
  12. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    I am a sophomore...
     
  13. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne G.O.A.T.

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    kiki: Fourteen....
     
  14. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    How do you know?

    If that was the case, Fed should be emprisoned for child abuse...
     
  15. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne G.O.A.T.

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    hoodjem, It honours you even though I think you are one.

    I would never had called me an expert if the Federer armada would not have devalued me to an idiot...
     
  16. ARFED

    ARFED Semi-Pro

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    Please Kiki, do tell...(i do not lack the capacity to laugh at myself, not like others)
     
  17. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne G.O.A.T.

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    kiki, Phoenix inspired me to count that way.

    Poor Roger, even I would not accuse him for child abuse. At the most I would blame him for ball abuse at several of his legendary backhand errors...
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2013
  18. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    I would put Nadal out of the game for his buttpicking
     
  19. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    what is the best business one can ever make?

    buying an argentinian for his real value and selling him for what he says he´s worth of ( of course, the same could be said for many other countries)...
     
  20. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne G.O.A.T.

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    Yes, In this regard Roger is really more aesthetical than Rafa (I admit: even re other aspects)...
     
  21. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    it would be sad that his butpicking becomes the iconic image of his rather dull era.

    Nothing to see with Connors gamemanship or JMac outbursts...or Borg´s R&R star atmosphere for that matter.
     
  22. Phoenix1983

    Phoenix1983 Hall of Fame

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  23. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne G.O.A.T.

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    Phoenix, Thanks. It's fitting. They say at 64 the brain works at its best...

    By the way, The Beatles are my "Rosewall" among the pop music groups even though they have not won the Nobel Price...
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2013
  24. ARFED

    ARFED Semi-Pro

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    Yeah i already knew that one, however it holds some truth in it. Nature has blessed us with one of the richest countries on earth (we can feed 30 times the size of our population for example) but humbleness is not one of our assets for sure (that among others is one of the reasons why we are so poorly managed).
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2013
  25. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    ...that´s why Argentina has the highest rate of psicologist per capita of the modern countries? that with no offense of course.

    I agree with the cast of politicians, but I think some other countries are in the same group and they just - unfortunately- semm like don´t care at all.
     
  26. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    and since Zep are the Laver of rock, that means total innovation+domination...

    due to their apparent longevity ( with no creativity in more than 30 years), I´d rather call the Stones the equivalent to Rosewall...
     
  27. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne G.O.A.T.

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    kiki, comparing Rosewall with the R. Stones is an insult. You know for whom...
     
  28. ARFED

    ARFED Semi-Pro

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    We like to talk and brag about everything, even when we don`t have any knowledge about the matter. I believe it has pretty much to do with our italian backgroud (not meant to be offensive as well)
     
  29. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    Humility is a virtue.:wink:
     
  30. ARFED

    ARFED Semi-Pro

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    Ask Nadal :twisted:. He has won 11 slams out of humility
     
  31. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    yes, saying rosewall would've won wimbledon at his peak is not bias ....that's reasonable speculation ...

    but saying federer's BH and volleying are weaknesses ( they are only relative weaknesses in reality ) , but rosewall's serve ( a true weakness ) and forehand ( a relative weakness ) aren't is bias

    putting rosewall at the very top for peak play when his contemporaries laver, gonzales and hoad ( for shorter period of time ) were better in that aspect is also another example of bias

    saying federer doesn't play touch shots is bias or being clueless ...you pick ....actually I'd strongly go with clueless on this one ....

    saying federer isn't in the top 10 for peak play and putting the likes of newk/roche/becker etc above him is bias or being clueless ... you pick ...

    majority of the "experts" agree with me .regarding federer's position in history .....including great players like laver, borg, rosewall, navratilova, connors, agassi, sampras, kramer etc ......

    finally, I assure you, no one here seriously thinks you know much about modern tennis .......
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2013
  32. Feather

    Feather Hall of Fame

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    He doesn't know about modern Tennis at all. He speaks nonsense when ever he speaks about modern Tennis. Federer has no touch shots! Basically he follows discussions in forums, pick the ones that are stated against Federer and type it in discussions about Federer.

    He didn't know that Roger beat Pete playing s/v. Instead he says that Roger was troubled by s/v in an exho match. How silly can that be? He also doesn't know Roger s/v ed in Wimbledon 2003.

    He is not aware of the change in Tennis courts. He picks lines that suits his agenda and types them like a parrot without knowing whether it's fact or not. I enjoy reading his posts about modern tennis as most of them are hilarious.

    Little bit of hatred, little bit of cluelessness, little bit of nostalgia and little bit of bias - that's BobbyOne
     
  33. Feather

    Feather Hall of Fame

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    Hoodjem,

    I joined this forum in January 2011 and I started visiting this section, "Former Pro Player" section in March itself. It was this section that interested me the most as the things that you guys posted were something that I never knew about. I used to read the posts silently and never tried to post here as I didn't have anything to contribute. I heard about Maureen Connolly for the first time from you only. I have to add that I learnt a lot about Tennis from you guys.

    I started posting here on a regular basis only after reading BobbyOne's posts. Some of his posts are mere trolling and with the sole intention of irritating Roger fans. You tend to get carried. We, younger ones, also have some of our favorites.

    I am sure in the midst of debating with BobbyOne, I would have gotten carried and posted something that offended others. It was never intentional as you would agree that it's easy to get carried. At times you tend to reply to trolls in trolling mode..
     
  34. Feather

    Feather Hall of Fame

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    Even I don't have any problems with kiki. I may not agree with kiki's views at times but then we all have our faves and we all got carried. I respect kiki's knowledge and has looked in awe when he quotes past years and what happened. May be years down the lane, when I reach kiki's age, I would also nostalgically stand by Roger Federer. I don't know..

    My problem with BobbyOne is he would type something. You would type a long reply to him, he doesn't even respond to any of the points you raised and casually types a line with a self righteous tone that am always right. Even when you present him with facts, he won't respond. One poster pointed to him the flaws in his argument and his reply was that he is sad that he is also a Federer admirer. He didn't even bother to honor that reply.
     
  35. forzamilan90

    forzamilan90 Legend

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    Bingo, I won't even bother with him anymore, let him spit his usual talk, no one is really thinking he knows what he is talking about, especially of modern tennis
     
  36. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    yeah, the only question now remains, where did he read or who told him that federer lacks touch ? :)
     
  37. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne G.O.A.T.

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    abmk, I concede: I'm an idiot.

    By the way, I don't think that Rosewakll's service is a weakness.

    You can't win 23 or 25 majors with a weak serve...
     
  38. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne G.O.A.T.

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    Dear Featherer, pardon, Federer, You have seen through me!
     
  39. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne G.O.A.T.

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    Featherer, I can assure you: the Federer fanatics are not trolling against me (or rather seldom): They are hating me because I say unpleasant things about their GOD. Plus they are insulting me almost every time I post and, in one case, they are even threatening me.

    I have received now hundreds of insulting posts. It could be that I'm wrong with some Federer theses. But that's NOT as bad as to threaten a poster. I'm still waiting for any accusing or critisizing ARFED for his criminal threat by the critical posters!!!

    Note: Humanity and legality are more important than even damned tennis players like Federer or Rosewall!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2013
  40. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    maybe years down the lane, maybe weeks, maybe decades...who knows? after all, age is a state of mind
     
  41. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne G.O.A.T.

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    Mr.FEATHERER: It's a big LIE that I don't answer arguments of other posters. It's the contrary: The Federer admirers scream about my responding arguments.

    Please do me a favour: Don't address me anymore. It's better for both of us: it would protect our nerves...

    Good bye!
     
  42. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne G.O.A.T.

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    Milan, you might know something about soccer, but you need some learning in tennis.

    As for ARFED and Featherer, I will not answer you anymore...
     
  43. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne G.O.A.T.

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    Watching Roger is enough to know that he seldom uses touch shots against the top players...
     
  44. Feather

    Feather Hall of Fame

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    How come you are the ONLY person who says that? :p
     
  45. Feather

    Feather Hall of Fame

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    It's a sunday night, and I have no time to type long posts. I will reply to in detail the number of times you avoided questions or posted strawman arguments. I remember them very well
     
  46. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    I assure you are the only one who thinks that way or has seen that alternate "fake" world .....

    I posted plenty of videos of federer hitting quite a few touch shots vs top players - including nadal , djokovic, murray, agassi, sampras , hewitt, safin, roddick etc etc ....... not once but repeatedly, ..........but you just ignored them ...As Feather said , that's your typical way in this forum , which is one of the main reasons why people criticize you

    do you want me to show those posts again and how you ignored them ?
     
  47. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne G.O.A.T.

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    abmk, I don't ignore the shots you showed but I say that Federer does not make them as often as many greats of older days showed: Laver, Rosewall, Santana, Nastase, McEnroe, Segura, Riggs. That's it.

    I'm sure I'm not the only expert to think that way.
     
  48. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    I think Fed has a good touch and sense of the ball, his feeling and timing are very good and he´d have shone much more in the wooden era.Of course, Nadal and Djokovic, not.

    ...and maybe Federer would even be a decent volleyer?
     
  49. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    typical passive aggressive response ..... reply to the actual content if you can ... I clearly showed you why you are that much biased ( of course almost every has some bias to an extent )

    first of all, its not 23 or 25 .... given full fields, his total would be certainly quite a bit less than that ......

    the rest of his game was good enough to compensate for his weak serve .......... from the 50s till now , I don't think there's been a #1 player with a weaker serve than rosewall (connors comes closest)

    his exceptional longevity was also one major factor in him winning those many significant tournaments ....

    when I say weak here, I mean with respect to the top players ......
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2013
  50. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    yes, you did ignore replying to those posts of those shots till now atleast ...good that you finally replied to that now ...

    what you are saying now is very different from saying federer seldom plays touch shots or doesn't have good touch ..... you said it was a weakness ......... nowhere close to reality ....he has very good touch/feel ....... you'd be hard-pressed to name 10 players superior or comparable to him in that area in the open era ....

    the players you listed certainly had brilliant touch ...... but out of those, nastase and mac are the only ones who played once topspin/power game came into prominence circa the early to mid 70s .......tennis was much more of a touch based game before that ....it is more based on topspin/power now ........
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2013

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