Wealthy Families and Scholarships

Discussion in 'College Tennis Talk' started by tacoben, May 30, 2012.

  1. tacoben

    tacoben Semi-Pro

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    #1
  2. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

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    I think that UCLA just got a pretty major booster
     
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  3. bluetrain4

    bluetrain4 Legend

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    I don't see why not. Scholarships do serve a purpose of helping a kid pay for his educaiton, but they also serve the purpose of attracting a player to a school, thereby, in theroy, increasing that school's chances at success. A kid doesn't have to take a scholarship, and there have been wealthy families who have foregone scholarships because they wanted to give someone else that opportunity. This probably isn't at all the norm, but it happens.

    And, how would you determine what "wealth" qualifies and what doesn't? Simply AGI on tax returns? Other assets? Do we consider how many children a wealthy family has. Do we consider that though some people may have a good income and are "wealthy" on paper, they may have high debt or other liabilities. There's a lot to consider.
     
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  4. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

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    Definition of wealth: You received this car for your 16th birthday...
    [​IMG]
     
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  5. Staidhup

    Staidhup New User

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    This is a good question, however, are we talking about the sacrifice a child made or that of his or her parents financial acumen? Who are we measuring here, and how can one draw a line between the two so that hard work is rewarded? From a broader perspective, then is it not right to conclude, based on the slant of this article, because a child comes from an accomplished family that child should not be granted a job based on the accomplishments of one's family and financial need? One can not buy an athletic scholarship, it takes talent, dedication, hard work, hart, and sacrifice. Having seen children from wealthy families live on the courts and hear their family members talk about potential professional carriers and college scholarships is some what amusing because the grind and sacrifice required comes from within, not one's bank account, and we all know money doesn't buy hart.
     
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  6. bluetrain4

    bluetrain4 Legend

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    LOL. I received a car for my 16th birthday. A used 4-speed manual Honda Civic hatchback, purchased for $800 from a friend of my fahter's. One panel on the exterior was clearly painted with spray paint in a different color than the rest of the car. Floor on the passenger's side was starting to rust out as was most of the exhuast system. It lasted about eight months before all sorts of not-worth-fixing-it problems set in. But, what an eight months! I had my own car and all the freedom that entailed. An absolute disaster of a car, and absolutely one of my favorites.

    But, I get your point. If you're getting a new, luxury car (like a Maybach) for your 16th, maybe your family can afford to let someone else take the scholarship.
     
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  7. duusoo

    duusoo Rookie

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    Well, you can't choose your family. We live in America and if they are rich, well, you've won the genetic lottery. At OSU, it was sort of understood that if you had big bucks you turned it down for others that may need it more. My understanding was this sort cam from the golf team, as I recall hearing that Jack Nicklaus came from a wealthy family, and turned down a scholarship. Sort of set the tone in sports like golf and tennis, that gets around and sticks.
     
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  8. 10ismom

    10ismom Semi-Pro

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    I agree with FTD. Small fish attracts bigger fish here.

    If the kid worked hard, he should be rewarded as what another kid would. Being born to a wealthy family is not by choice.This is not a financial aid issue. It is by merit/athletic achievement, something to be proud of.

    Once awarded the scholarship, he might decline, by his choice, parents' persuation, or public critique.
    It is almost 100% guaranteed the family in this type scenerio will make generous $$$ contribution to the school.
     
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  9. goran_ace

    goran_ace Hall of Fame

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    "This isn’t financial aid. It’s not a needs-based scholarship; it’s a merit-based one."

    My sentiments exactly.
     
    #9
  10. Misterbill

    Misterbill Semi-Pro

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    Sometimes it's not about "me" or "my family" or "my merit". It's about the team.

    Take Raph Rhymes, for example. He is the SEC baseball player of the year, as a junior, for LSU. Hitting .469 after hovering over .500 for a good part of the season. Voluntarily gave up his scholy so the team could go out and recruit another player.

    Great story. You can read about it here:

    http://www.nola.com/lsu/index.ssf/2012/05/lsu_baseball_coach_paul_mainie_16.html
     
    #10
  11. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

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    Scholarships give money to people who have already accumulated knowledge through the familial environment and sanctify this bestowal with the holy water of a merit-based scholarship.
     
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  12. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

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    100% true.

    But, how is he going to be treated by the walk on from a lower class family with parents working multiple jobs? Would he just give the kid a ride home for Christmas break in his $360K car and feel like he did a good deed for the year? What about when the walk on sits above him on the depth chart?

    Point of this conversation is...yes, he has the talent to earn the scholly along with a roster spot. Is it morally correct to take it when you clearly don't have a financial need for it? The roster spot is guaranteed, does a multi millionaire take the free money or let someone less fortunate get it?

    If I were a Bill Gates type...I'd have the kid take the roster spot & pay the tuition myself. That's just me.
     
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  13. ClarkC

    ClarkC Hall of Fame

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    The same could be said of paychecks. If you are feeling guilty and need to give away some paychecks, I have bills to pay and will gladly help alleviate your guilt.
     
    #13
  14. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

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    Apples to oranges when you are talking about someone like Sean Combs. He could donate a 2 week paycheck and not even notice. I could do the same and the bank would be wondering why I didn't pay my mortgage this month.

    Median US Househould income 2010: 49,445
    2010 Cencus: http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2011-09-13/census-household-income/50383882/1

    P-Diddy Estimated Net worth: 500 million plus
    http://www.celebritynetworth.com/richest-celebrities/richest-rappers/p-dddy-net-worth/

    [​IMG]
    P-Diddy trying to figure out why this one doesn't have any zeros after the 1
     
    #14
  15. tennisjon

    tennisjon Semi-Pro

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    One huge difference between football and tennis is that most if not all starters on the team will have a full ride in football, but in tennis there are only 4 scholarships for men and that needs to be divided amongst the team.
     
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  16. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

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  17. Staidhup

    Staidhup New User

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    UCLA is not going to waste a scholarship, they recruited this kid, wanted his talent, respected his work effort, so let his talent do the talking on the field. He has a tough road ahead, prove himself worthy each and every day, just as he had to do in high school. I think it is harder for a kid to come from a privileged soft life style and have to prove themselves each day than a kid from a broken home that has no other way out.
     
    #17
  18. treeman10

    treeman10 Semi-Pro

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    $50k scholarship nets $10M "Diddy Digs" building in future. Good trade.

    Besides sounds like he earned it. Better than clubbing it like a lot of celebrity $$$ kids.
     
    #18
  19. goober

    goober Legend

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    I actually happen to follow UCLA football recruiting. To tell you the truth he is probably a marginal candidate as a football talent. He was a 2 star recruit coming out of high school. UCLA has take 2 star recruits before, but I wonder how much his dad had an influence in schools recruiting him. I will be pleasantly surprised if he actually eventually makes the starting line up as CB given, there are a lot DBs recruited that have 3-5 star talent- especially in this year's recruiting class.

    but I will give you that he is a much more legit recruit than Lil Romeo ever was for USC bball.:)
     
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  20. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

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  21. ollinger

    ollinger Legend

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    If scholarships were only intended to help students pay for an education, then scholarships to the wealthy would of course make not sense. But scholarships are for the school as well, a recruitment tool to craft the student body the school wants, so giving money to those who don't truly need it is readily justifiable, though certainly one imagines most financial aid should go and does go to the needy.
     
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  22. Misterbill

    Misterbill Semi-Pro

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    There is, at least, one reader who is happy about this. And is amused and informed. Any more links up your sleeve?
     
    #22
  23. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

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    http://www.closeronline.co.uk/Showb...hrows-one-million-dollars-into-the-crowd.aspx

    I wouldn't say I'm happy about the story. I think UCLA is totally cool to offer a scholly to anyone they feel can add to their team.

    But, if Diddys son accepts it, when his dad is throwing cash into crowds at parties....c'mon. Just take the roster spot and decline the scholly.
     
    #23
  24. Misterbill

    Misterbill Semi-Pro

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    .......happy that you "can't stop myself from posting on this thread"
     
    #24
  25. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

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    Not the slightest trace of guilt in my statement. A paycheck is quite different from a scholarship at many levels.



     
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  26. ClarkC

    ClarkC Hall of Fame

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    Please provide more details of the differences.
     
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  27. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

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  28. 10ismom

    10ismom Semi-Pro

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  29. goober

    goober Legend

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    Actually all the starters, the second string, third string and practice squad have full rides. Last time I checked it was 85 full rides. That's why there are so many men's sports cut or greatly reduced in number of scholies.
     
    #29
  30. Satsuma Illini

    Satsuma Illini Semi-Pro

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    So...football is the Evil Empire of college sports, devouring everything? Would tennis even have 4 scholarships without football? Revies vs. Nonrevies debate.
     
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  31. goober

    goober Legend

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    Well this is not the place to really get into this but as the has been talked about in other threads ad nauseaum, in order to comply with title IX, there is no way you can have 85 scholies for football without major cuts in mens programs to have an equal number of womens scholies. Tennis is actually lucky it gets any scholies on the mens side as many programs in mens wrestling, gymnastics, swimming and most olympic type sports were cut altogether at many schools.
     
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  32. ClarkC

    ClarkC Hall of Fame

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    Many men's football teams used to have well over 100 scholarships. Now that they have been reduced to 85, I don't know that I can blame football for all the program cuts in men's gymnastics, volleyball, etc. There is not just a single factor, but Title IX interpretations and applications are obviously the primary factor.
     
    #32
  33. decades

    decades Guest

    it's certainly debatable. but I say it's okay.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 2, 2012
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  34. Satsuma Illini

    Satsuma Illini Semi-Pro

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    Yeah, I didn't really mean to open up that old can of worms again. Just stating the status quo. I love football! Better than basketball anyway.
     
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  35. PennAlum

    PennAlum Rookie

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    Well if he is a 2 star recruit he does not deserve an athletic scholarship and a 3.75 is also not deserving of an academic scholarship. UCLA is probably proffering it as a quid pro quo and expecting to get P. Diddy donations in the future. The only admirable and gracious thing to do is decline the scholarship and suggest that it can now go to families with financial need. Let's see...
     
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  36. goober

    goober Legend

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    2 star recruits do get scholies to D1 programs in football. Football is not like tennis as far as recruiting. There are about 20 5 star recruits or so per year and most schools have 15-25 scholies to give. With over a 100 D1 schools, you cannot fill your class with 5 star players or even 4 star players. Even the top schools in the BCS conferences will take 3 star players. Average BCS schools which UCLA falls into will take more 3 star players and a handful of 2 star players per year. Lower D1 schools like in the Mountain West or conference USA will give out a lot of scholies to 2 star players.

    So being a 2 star doesn't necessarily mean that he does not deserve a scholie based on talent. There have been some very good college players that were 2 star rated out of high school. In tennis unless you are blue chip or 5 star you have zero chance at the pros- even then your chances are slim. In football your star rating has some correlation with pro potential but a rather weak one. Aaron Rodgers one of the best QBs in the NFL had 0 stars coming out of high school and there are many NFL players that had 0-2 star ratings from high school.

    Justin Combs did get offers from Virgina, Illinois and some other low level D1 programs, so I would give him the benefit of the doubt. Usually UCLA will offer scholies to 2 star recruits that they have scouted in person. Justin Combs went to a prep school in NY, so part of me wonders if he was the exact same player but name Justin Baker with a nonfamous father, would they have offered a 2 star recruit from the other side of the country? Probably not- but that doesn't mean he can't play.
     
    #36
  37. MeggieTennisGal

    MeggieTennisGal New User

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    Scholarships are helpful when it comes to applying for awards for, e.g., Rhodes or Fulbright Scholarships. I think it's best for the athlete to take the reward and, if the rich parent is so inclined, he or she can establish another scholarship fund for other kids. Also, having a rich parent doesn't mean that parent is going to pay for a parent to go through college. My parents were wealthy, but told me I was on my own for college. They didn't think college education for girls was worth paying for (this was some years back).
     
    #37
  38. MeggieTennisGal

    MeggieTennisGal New User

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    Ooops, I mean "is going to pay for a CHILD to go through college."
     
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  39. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

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    Did your dad and his boys "Make it rain" at a concert with a million dollars cash being tossed to the fans? Did he buy you a $360k car on your 16th birthday? Is he on a Forbes Celebrity list touting his net worth to be approaching $1 billion?

    We aren't talking about the hard working businessman. We are talking about the uber wealthy that show it off to the world.
     
    #39
  40. goober

    goober Legend

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    ok Jim Mora is getting out of hand. Justin Combs was at least a D1 prospect at least a low level. Now UCLA has offered Snoop Dog's son who has only played one year of football and is a sophomore:shock:That's crazy. Even the top 5 star prospects don't get offers as sophmores.
     
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  41. Satsuma Illini

    Satsuma Illini Semi-Pro

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    Money, Money, Money
     
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  42. tball2day

    tball2day Semi-Pro

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    ................
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2012
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  43. dennis10is

    dennis10is Banned

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    You can always blame foreigners, women and if desperate non-Christians.

    This pretty much covers the blame for almost everything.

    Ask not what I can do to improve my situation in life, ask which groups I can blame for my misfortunes.
     
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  44. Satsuma Illini

    Satsuma Illini Semi-Pro

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    It's the American way! 21st century style.
     
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  45. TeflonTom

    TeflonTom Banned

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    yeah this. sports scholarships are about getting talent to the school

    if u want to get rid of scholarships for merit and make everything needs based then u are talkin about a completely different system.
     
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  46. goober

    goober Legend

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    but this is a little different.
    Snoop dog's kid not merit based, PDiddy's kid borderline merit. I think this more about getting sons of wealthy celebrities to add cache to your football program and recruiting influence for the 4 and 5 star players. Maybe they will get some $$ donations out of it as well.
     
    #46
  47. TeflonTom

    TeflonTom Banned

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    yeah well thats the point. its about attracting talent, dollars, whatever

    sports schols in us arent really needs based
     
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  48. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

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    The validity of the merit is up to the school. They make offers and that is their decision. They have to live with it. They can offer anything in their coffers to anyone they desire.

    What also happens is that the kid can accept the offer and decline any aid. The two sides are independent.

    The general idea that a multi millionaires kid is accepting aid is what aggravates the masses. The decision to take money is the kids. If he were to accept a spot on the team and turn down the scholarship, he would look like a hero. If he doesn't, he just looks greedy.
     
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  49. goober

    goober Legend

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    I would be surprised if either one of these kids turns down the scholie and plays for free. Actually I would be shocked. There is increased prestige among the players with a scholie versus those who don't have one and walked on. It adds an air of legitimacy to your athletic ability. I can think only 1-2 incidences of players from wealthy families turning down scholies to give to another player and playing for free. OTOH I can think of many, many players from wealthy families taking the money and playing.
     
    #49
  50. NickC

    NickC Professional

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    That's not true, I personally know someone who was verbally offered a full ride to swim at a very large program in the Big 10 while she was still in 8th grade.

    Plus, John Calapari got a 6th grader to commit to Kentucky.

    Football may be different, but when I was in high school, the best football players were taking campus visits and talking to coaches by the end of their freshman year.
     
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