weave tips

Discussion in 'Stringing Techniques / Stringing Machines' started by Larrysümmers, Aug 10, 2010.

  1. Larrysümmers

    Larrysümmers Hall of Fame

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    what are your best tips for weaving faster? weaving takes me a while and it gets annoying so if anyone has any tips please feel free to enlighten me if you will :)
     
    #1
  2. Six.One.Tour.90FAN

    Six.One.Tour.90FAN Professional

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    wrong section

    if if the string is greasy or stiff, weaving a loop is easier than
    normally pushing the string through

    90
     
    #2
  3. Larrysümmers

    Larrysümmers Hall of Fame

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    oops my bad, i didnt even see they had a new section for tips and whatnot my bad
     
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  4. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    just a couple quick pointers:

    1. Pull enough string through the grommet to reach the other side of the frame before beginning to weave.

    2. weave in a diagonal angle, rather than straight across.

    3. Practice.

    hopefully, more posters will chime in with more tips.

    Good luck.
     
    #4
  5. Larrysümmers

    Larrysümmers Hall of Fame

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    thanks drakulie. i will try those in a few minutes :)
     
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  6. jim e

    jim e Hall of Fame

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    Be sure to weave one ahead, I'm sure most do that, but just to mention just in case.
    Also, I normally start my weaves so the majority of the weaves end going over the last main, then you have a clean shot to put the string through the grommet hole.Also if you start going under the 1st main , you will then be going over the last main, (reverse is also true), this way you will never need to spend time checking your weaves for miss weaves, unless you have the unlikely event of having 2 mis weaves in the same row.I know if I go over the last main, that there is no misweave and never need to check.Saves a little time. The rest is practice.
     
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  7. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    Figure out whether you are faster at push weaving or pull weaving and practice only that method.
     
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  8. TennisNinja

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    Definitely pull diagonally.
     
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  9. jim e

    jim e Hall of Fame

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    I can push weave much more efficient than pulling.I would say push diagonally or try both to see what is best for you. Some stringers here push in one direction and pull back. I cannot do that, ( I guess I can but would take me too long, as I am good at push weaving only) . Try both to see what works best for you.
     
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  10. Ash_Smith

    Ash_Smith Hall of Fame

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    what Drak said!

    I push weave one way and them pull weave back - faster for me and less spinning the racquet - not that it makes a lot of difference!!!

    Ash
     
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  11. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    I'm a pull weaver myself.
     
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  12. kslick

    kslick Rookie

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    tried pulling and what a mess. Definitely a pusher......
     
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  13. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    I'm working on this technique, Ash. I think when I get it down, it will definitely make stringing a bit easier/smoother, and faster.
     
    #13
  14. themitchmann

    themitchmann Hall of Fame

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    Total pusher.

    Also, cut the tip of the string at an angle.
     
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  15. bhupaes

    bhupaes Professional

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    Takes me around 50 minutes to string my racquet. I don't mind since it's very therapeutic and I love doing it. Good way to get some peace and quiet when the family is driving me nuts. :)
     
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  16. Larrysümmers

    Larrysümmers Hall of Fame

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    this was a life saver!!it was so much easier to weave!!

    thank you to everyone :)
     
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  17. meowmix

    meowmix Hall of Fame

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    On some of the greasier strings, wipe the string down before you string it to get some of the excess silicone off. That or keep a napkin handy.
     
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  18. struggle

    struggle Hall of Fame

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    also, in a tight weave or tight spot (halfway through crosses) sometimes it helps to weave half way across the mains and pull slack through again, much like you did through the grommet initially.
     
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  19. McLovin

    McLovin Hall of Fame

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    Not sure if this applies, but..

    I always setup my crosses so the main portion of them start on an 'over'. In other words, if the 1st cross skips 1 main, then I start it under, and from there on, until the last cross, all start 'over'.

    If the 1st cross skips 2 mains, then I start it 'over', the 2nd cross starts 'under', and from there on, until the last 1 or 2 (depending on the pattern), all start 'over'.

    Takes less thought and helps prevent mis-weaves. In fact, I don't believe I have mis-weaved in over 15 years.
     
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  20. jim e

    jim e Hall of Fame

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    Actually I do the exact opposite, and end up going over the majority of the last main strings with the cross string weaving. This way, its an easier shot to weave and put the end of the string into the grommet hole as the string is on top of the last main.At least its easier for me this way.
    I guess it like any other preference, like push or pull weaving, or both like some talented stringers do.
     
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  21. McLovin

    McLovin Hall of Fame

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    I guess if I had read you post earlier I would have realized someone already mentioned this. Bad reading on my part.

    Anyway, my point wasn't really which way to start, just that you are consistent every time you string. But now you've got me thinking I should start under instead of over...
     
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  22. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    I always like to finish over on the last cross string. Makes it easier to get the string through the grommet for me.
     
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  23. Technatic

    Technatic Semi-Pro

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    Weaving easy or really easy?

    Hi guys,
    I know that being able to weave fast is a quality of an experienced stringer, and all these tips are certainly very useful.

    However it is also the proud of a craftsman to have the latest tools that are available.

    So once you are fed up with weaving and especially those stiff monos, invest in these tools.
    It is easier, faster and better for the string and .....for your back.

    Just have a look at this guy, I do not think many stringers can push and pull the string through (without friction) as fast as he can.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoktfpQE4C0

    What do you think??

    I may be not so fast but much faster than without the tools, use them many years already.
    Because the level of concentration can be lower, it seems easier to do more stringjobs after each other.

    [​IMG]
     
    #23
  24. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    ^^^There was a thread with a lot of information on this tool. One guy even posted photos of one of these that he had from over 20???? years ago?

    Anyway, those who have used it really like it. However, to me it seems a bit cumbersome to use.
     
    #24
  25. MAX PLY

    MAX PLY Hall of Fame

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    Actually the Stringway device makes some sense. I am not sure that experienced stringers will find it worth the extra time and set up (I suspect I can weave a string as fast or faster as it takes the user of the device to move it, reset it and insert the string) but the lower friction it purports to provide strikes me as by far its best attribute (and again, most experienced stringers can minimize friction without such a device). Having stated that, I have not tried it and probably won't purchase one anytime soon but if I still strung a ton of gut on a regular basis, it might be worth the investment.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2010
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  26. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    ^^^That's what I was thinking, Max. It's best use might be for stringing Natural Gut.
     
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  27. Ash_Smith

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    ^^^Yep, looking at the video I'm sure it'll take me more time using the tool than weaving by hand - that said I guess new stringers might find it useful and if you know no other method maybe this will be quicker for you.

    Wonder if the lack of friction on weaving causes any change in DT after? I would assume not because when you pull tension the string is back in full contact with the mains but it would be interesting to check.

    Ash
     
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  28. Technatic

    Technatic Semi-Pro

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    No Way!

    Guys please excuse me:
    I was on a sales show a couple of years ago, standing on the Stringway booth (being a Stringway follower for many years).
    The SW guy was demonstrating the prototype of the new cross stringers.
    Then a rather famous Wimbledon stringer joined the discussion and watched the use of the tool.
    So the SW guy asked him: “What do you think of this tool?”
    The guy said: This is a good tool for people who do not know how to get the string through”.

    So the SW guy said: “So you can do faster?”
    “ Certainly”, the Wimbledon guy answered.

    So:
    The SW guy pushed 2 strings through very relaxed and could pull the string through as fast as he could (without the need to pull under an angle).

    Then the W-guy did the same.
    And hat to admit that he was slower………… this time.

    My conclusion as a spectator was: It was no match.

    And this was with an easy to weave nylon string.
    With the tool it does not make a difference if you weave monos, gut or nylon, so with a mono or gut the difference in speed would have been even bigger

    So excuse me again;
    I understand that you want to tell how fast you can weave, but I can not believe that someone is faster without the tool, than someone who can use the tool.

    No way!
     
    #28
  29. Technatic

    Technatic Semi-Pro

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    Hi Ash;
    Forgot to answer your questions about the DT value:
    Because you do not pull tension through the cross stringer it makes no difference in the DT value.

    It does make a difference in your back after doing some racquets after each other:
    The old tool that they had was made for wooden racquet and the big alu Prince Pro. So it did not fit 30 % of the modern racquets and I had to do those by hand.
     
    #29
  30. kkm

    kkm Semi-Pro

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    For what it's worth Ulrich "Uli" Kühnel (stringer for Boris Becker) seems to believe in the cross-stringing tool.

    At 2:53
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYCcdWBqNYI

    And he famously used a True Tension stringing machine, as did many pro tour stringers in years past. A crank machine. A crank machine as "preferred by American stringers." (from Stringway's marketing materials which denigrate the very market they hope to sell to) :rolleyes: "Stringing on stiffness" was not exclusively an European concept, as much as some might like to think it is. Much of the racquet support issue Stringway promotes seems to have come from the True Tension school of thought on the subject from many years before.

    Lots to read:
    http://www.truetension.com

    And the cross-stringing tools allowing for "the level of concentration" to be lower? Some of the outer mains on some racquets will be out of the reach of the cross-stringing tool, requiring some crosses to be woven without the aid of the cross-stringing tool across these out-of-reach outer mains, and some of the top and bottom crosses to be woven manually in their entirety without the help of the tool. And a stringer needn't be all that experienced to weave one ahead to avoid most of what would otherwise be hard weaves.
    Especially with natural gut, if one uses professional technique in pulling the crosses across the mains

    as illustrated very nicely by Drakulie here:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpfwDvF3Buk

    that further removes the need for a cross-stringing tool.

    As far as the Wimbledon stringer being slower than the guy pulling the string through with the aid of the Cross Stringing Tool, consider stringing the entire racquet, moving the tool with every cross string, slipping the cross across the mains, tensioning, clamping....does it really save that much time and effort?

    interview with Ulrich "Uli" Kühnel:
    http://www.saitenforum.de/interviews.php?show=ukuehnel&title=Ulrich%20Kuehnel

    Kühnel's IPDS/Xception site:
    http://www.tension-advisor.com
     
    #30
  31. jswinf

    jswinf Professional

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    Isn't this the right section now after the fairly recent change, or am I (still) confused?
     
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  32. Technatic

    Technatic Semi-Pro

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    I think that it is the right section and the change takes care that this kind of discussions get the right amount of attention.
     
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  33. Technatic

    Technatic Semi-Pro

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    You may be right,
    But the questions is:
    Who was there first the Stringway or True Tension?

    In my opinion the racquet support of the True Tension is completely the opposite of what Stringway promotes:
    - I thought that True Tension has supports on 6, 12, 3 and 9 o’clock.
    This is the ultimate INdirect (outside) support.

    - SW has 5 inside supports which is a direct system. The supports push the racquet outwards where the main strings pull it inwards.

    Apart from this I do not think that the True Tension tensioner is a Crank machine like all the others.
    The big springs are no reference springs they work between the string and the tension head and keep the tension constant during the elongation of the string.

    So I think it is a kind of constant pull system.

    Or am I wrong?
     
    #33
  34. Ash_Smith

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    Exactly my point!

    Ash
     
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  35. Technatic

    Technatic Semi-Pro

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    Skills and tools.

    Hi Ash,
    Of course everybody has to judge the benefits for him self.
    But it is not only the time and the convenience that you save:
    It also saves finger tips, your back and the string.

    I also know that there are people who prefer to use their own skill and others like handy tools.

    It is a major thing in life that you believe in what you do and how you do it.

    Tecna
     
    #35
  36. kkm

    kkm Semi-Pro

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    As far as I know you're correct on this. I believe that the spring of the True Tension and the spring in the Stringway MS200 are along the same lines.
     
    #36
  37. Dags

    Dags Professional

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    I know you're really into your 'stringing science', so would be interested to hear your thoughts on whether such a tool could be detrimental in any way to the stringbed. I understand the benefit of removing friction when you weave - I'm certainly not trying to argue against that - but in order to do that, the tool would have to raise and lower the mains. In general, I wonder what that does to the tension. More specifically, I would be wary about over-stretching poly strings, and repeatedly so.

    Any thoughts, or better yet, observations?
     
    #37
  38. kkm

    kkm Semi-Pro

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    Here's one evaluation:
    http://ggtennis.wordpress.com/2009/09/09/stringway-cross-stringing-tool-some-thoughts-and-questions/
     
    #38
  39. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    ^^Thanks for the link. Interesting that the found it to have a lower DT when using the tool:

    "When using this tool our stringbed stiffness readings are generally 2 – 4 DT points lower than when we string without the use of the tool. This was a bit surprising to us as we surmised the use of the tool would create a stiffer stringbed."
     
    #39
  40. kkm

    kkm Semi-Pro

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    It really doesn't surprise me that the DT reading was a bit lower, as the main strings are being displaced/slightly stretched by the tool, and any resulting slack in the mains wouldn't be compensated for. Plus, I imagine that even straightening the crosses along the way, the strings would be even more inclined to "grin" than usual since the path of least resistance would be greater due to the displaced mains.
     
    #40
  41. Technatic

    Technatic Semi-Pro

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    Thanks KKM very interesting link and information on that site.
    Also interesting that they experienced that the dt value is lower with the tool than without.

    My ideas about this:
    The tool pushes the mains up and down by about 6 mm. When you start stringing the force to do that is next to nothing because the big free length of the mains. When you come to the end of the crosses the free length of the string smaller and the force to close the tool is considerably higher. It could be there that string stretches.
    Iow; When the free length of the main is 80 mm and the deflection is 6 mm this results in an angle of 6/40 is 8,5 degrees.
    The cosines of that angle is 0,989 which means that the string would stretch 1,1 %.
    This could be the reason that the string looses a little tension, but this will certainly depend on the type of string.
    When a string has a high Quality index el/total the loss will be much smaller than with a poly with a bad index.

    BUT; you can also look at this stretching as a “prestretch” before play. The string will probably be stretched much more than 1 % on hard hits.
    The interesting question can be: Is the dt value also lower after playing??

    My experience:
    I use the SW Tension advisor to calculate tensions for every racquet in order to get a certain stiffness. Most of the time the result will be 3 to 6 DT points higher directly after stringing than what I aimed at. The reason for this is probably that SW built in some safety margin because it is much worse when you end too low than a little too high.

    I do not have a good comparison between using the tool and not using it, I use the new tools for all racquets.
    The difference in SBS between different strings is huge, when you string a syn gut you can go down in tension more than one category (3 kg/cm) and with a bad poly you end up at the stiffness that you calculated with.

    So I compensate for the type of string from the calculated values.
     
    #41
  42. dancraig

    dancraig Hall of Fame

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    I started weaving "several" ahead a few months ago. I push weave a cross and then pull the next back toward me. I like it. No need to spin the frame while weaving. Since I start out "one ahead" the cross I pull back is the hard weave, so it seems to work out. I leave a loop of string at the ends, of course.
    I don't weave "several" ahead with gut, could be to much stress on the string. I have no problem fanning the crosses while stringing several ahead.

    I first learned to string "pulling a loop", as many others have. Then I learned how to push weave. It really isn't that difficult to put them both together. It actually feels like the natural thing to do.
     
    #42
  43. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    ^^^Hey, Dan. I push weave, and often (with particular synthetics) I weave more than one ahead on several crosses.

    I've been pulling my weaves more and more over the last few months (although still clumsy at it). When you push weave and then pull-weave back, what exact process do you do?

    For example, you push weave one cross away from you, and don't spin the frame around back towards you, rather pull the weave back. However, do you push the entire lenghth of string thru (leaving a loop of course to reach tensioner)? I wanted to hear your thoughts.

    Thanks in advance.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2010
    #43
  44. Ash_Smith

    Ash_Smith Hall of Fame

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    Rick

    I've been pushing and pulling weaves for a while now and the process is pretty much as you describe. Push the first one away from you until the tip just goes through the grommet and use the loop left behind to pull tension on the previous string. Pull through the string (fanning as normal) and then pull weave the next one back towards yourself until the tip is just through the grommet. Spin the racquet and tension using the loop again. Repeat until finished.

    There's no reason you couldn't weave several ahead using this method and leave little loops on the outside as you go t use to pull tension.

    Hops that makes sense!

    Ash
     
    #44
  45. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    ^^Hey, Ashe. Thanks for chiming in.

    My question is more based on when you push weave and reach the grommet, how do you get the rest of the string length to the other side without turning the racquet around towards you. It would be awkward to be pulling the string away from your body once the end of the string reaches the grommet.

    Hope you understand how I explained that.
     
    #45
  46. Ash_Smith

    Ash_Smith Hall of Fame

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    Sorry - I get you, once you get used to it it's not too bad, as I use my left hand if it's on the far side of the frame to pull the string through - the table turns a little as you do this anyway which makes it easier, but yeah basically I pull it through away from my body. It's not that awkward when
    you get used to it (like most things in stinging I guess!)

    Ash
     
    #46
  47. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    ^^^OK, gotcha. Thanks!
     
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  48. dancraig

    dancraig Hall of Fame

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    Hello Drakulie:
    I push weave the cross and just insert it in the grommet and then reach over and pull the string through. After viewing your "weave a lot of crosses" video, I decided to add that to my "push/pull" method. (thank-you) I like it. Now I just "play it by ear" and weave crosses until I think it's enough or until the string runs out.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2010
    #48
  49. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    ^^Thanks, Dan. Much appreciated.

    While working on my "pull technique", I'm still trying to figure out how to incoorporate it into my stringing to weed out unecessary wasted movements.

    Cheers!
     
    #49
  50. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    This does not have anything to do with weaving but it will save wasted effort. When you are running your mains run one ahead but do not pull the string all the way through. This way you will have the end of the string right at your fingertips all the time to pull through and run the next main. This really helps when you are doing a one piece string job because of the length of string on the long side.

    Irvin
     
    #50

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